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Ytlaya posted:I wonder if some of the titans, like the Attack Titan and Female Titan are even supposed to have any unique powers. Was the Female Titan's "scream and attract mindless titans" thing a unique ability of hers? Heck, even the armor titan doesn't necessarily seem to have unique powers, since Eren have been learning to harden parts of his body as well. Didn't Eren only gain the ability to harden after he consumed the vial of armored titan serum in the Fritz hidden chapel? The translation of 95 I read indicated that the Female Titan actually does have some limited power to call titans - though I always thought that it was more just that a titan could scream way louder than a person and that's what attracted the titans to Annie.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:45
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it's nice that the pardis islands are said to be full of demons by marleyans when eren is right there to prove them right, going by his little speech in the ocean
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Jul 7, 2017 02:54
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ATP_Power posted:The translation of 95 I read indicated that the Female Titan actually does have some limited power to call titans - though I always thought that it was more just that a titan could scream way louder than a person and that's what attracted the titans to Annie. Same, I thought it was just that titans can recognize the sound of a shifter and that, when Annie screamed, they all came running because it was the equivalent of ringing a dinner bell.
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Jul 7, 2017 03:00
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In It For The Tank posted:Same, I thought it was just that titans can recognize the sound of a shifter and that, when Annie screamed, they all came running because it was the equivalent of ringing a dinner bell. Don't worry, some arc soon we'll meet Dr. Vegapunk and he'll explain how it all works.
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Jul 7, 2017 03:03
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ATP_Power posted:Didn't Eren only gain the ability to harden after he consumed the vial of armored titan serum in the Fritz hidden chapel? Yes, and along with Rod Reiss' assertion that he'd give Historia a titan form that would be suited for combat, seems to indicate that whatever type of mindless titan they were before becoming shifters, and the mix of serum/titans they consume afterwards, affects a shifter's range of abilities - subject to the limits of their primary type. So for example, the Female Titan is a versatile type that has no inherent abilities (besides perhaps summoning titans), but consuming Armor-type gives it the power to selectively harden body parts, while the Armored Titan is exceptionally good at full-body hardening but displays no other special qualities, and the Mule Titan has exceptional endurance but is unable to even harden. I'm curious to see whether Eren develops or has developed new abilities as a result of training or megamanning other types, or if what we've seen so far is as good as he gets in his titan form.
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Jul 7, 2017 03:36
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Schwarzwald posted:I'm curious as to what the opinion of the Eldian people is outside of Marley. Zeke and co seem pretty convinced that it's unnegotiable genocidal hatred, but how much of that is Marleyan propaganda? The setting would be cartoonishly on the nose if it wasn't just Marleyan strategy of making Eldians feel indebted to them while getting away with abuse. Like "be grateful, it could be worse if you were with those other guys"
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Jul 7, 2017 13:03
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Considering that Eldians are treated as bioweapons, alternating between huge loving man-eating monsters and fanatically loyal shock troops, I can buy Zeke's assertion that they're despised by the entire rest of the world.
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Jul 7, 2017 13:25
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Ytlaya posted:Was the Female Titan's "scream and attract mindless titans" thing a unique ability of hers?
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Jul 7, 2017 13:40
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I recently tried to understand warrior/soldier dichotomy as presented and it seems to me that its translation made it a bit unclear. When presented in these words, it seems like the infiltrator trio were some plucky irregulars as opposed to parts of organized military - the manga clearly proved it's not the case. The words used in Japanese original are "senshi" and "heishi". Both are used to present a person who fights in a war, but when the latter means your usual schmuck given a weapon and told to kill enemies, the former is a bit more similar to an elite fighter or a war hero. It's someone brave and courageous who lives to fight and is ready to take insane sacrifices to defeat the enemy. Which makes perfect sense given who Berthold, Reiner and Annie are - they gave up everything, including a possibility to live normal lives, for their country. They are the perfect fascist soldiers. The twist is that Marley secured their loyalty by filling them with self-hate, ensuring they are not able to live normal lives and holding their families hostage. There is a lot of militaristic and fascist undertones in this show, but they appear mostly to be deconstructed. Someone heroically sacrifices? Watch him crying and screaming for help while getting slowly torn apart. The military government finally overthrows the corrupt monarchy? Their leader loves pointless cruelty. A successful commander is respected for not hesitating before sacrificing his soldier for the good of humanity? Actually, the previous one was also pretty great at throwing his men into a meat grinder, it's just that Erwin actually managed to achieve something with that. Also, the main thing he cares about is proving that his dad's death (which he caused) wasn't for nothing. And he absolutely hates what he has become. Same thing goes with the warrior culture - Isayama takes great effort to show the reader it's actually poo poo. There is nothing positive and praiseworthy in Reiner's sacrifice. He gave up his childhood, shortened his lifespan, committed terrible atrocities and tried to kill his friends just to impress the father who doesn't want anything to do with him and to be accepted by the country that treats his people like vermin. Now he's ridden with guilt and PTSD, no longer believes in Marley's goodwill and the most curageous act of resistance he can bring himself to is to goad some other kid to become a Warrior instead of his cousin. And he is the only one of the infiltrator quartet that actually believed in his mission, instead of just going with the flow.
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Jul 7, 2017 13:54
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The series has actually become a pretty good example of a story without heroes or villains done right. The Marley military is definitely the most despicable force at play but they're not the villain in the sense that taking them out of the equation would give anyone a happy ending because Eldians are inherently a reluctant war asset that can elevate the nation who controls them into superpower status and since nobody actually wants to become a living weapon of mass destruction they can't be bought out and based on what you can deduce they end up inevitably subjugated by force every time, hence why the only option in the eyes of the royalty was to simply go into isolation and escape from the rest of the world. It's an impasse where the enemy is the circumstances and there's no good solution.
Nina fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 14:11
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No, you don't get it. Attack on Titan is typical Japanese jingoism because Actually, what I'd like to add is how comprehensive Isayama is in portraying characters as believing they're in the right. Even when they - no, especially when they're doing horrible poo poo, they keep themselves going forward with the conviction that the path they're taking is the correct one or that they truly have no other choice. And just as Reiner seems to have been left a hollowed shell after losing his heartfelt convictions, Eren lost part of himself after the events with Rod Reiss and then learning the truth about his father. I think it was a very telling moment when Historia asks if he'll kill Reiner and Berthold if he meets them again, and the only response he can give is a distant 'I have to.' Everyone in the cast is left with their burdens to bear after the insurrection and shinganshina arcs, but it's Eren and Reiner that came out of it as truly changed men.
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Jul 7, 2017 14:32
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With the imagery of the latest chapter I refuse to believe the concept of titans isn't supposed to at least very partially be nuclear allegory. As an icon the colossal titan is the mushroom cloud of this setting and the geopolitical situation of the world is basically "What if nuclear weapons were incredibly finite so deterrence can't exist and whoever has them will be mistrusted and hated by default out of fear"
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Jul 7, 2017 14:46
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I remember when Berthold and Reiner were revealed to be the real villains, I wondered what the heck could their motivation possibly be. What could possibly be running through their heads as they wiped out half of humanity that made it seem at all justifiable. I knew they must have just been kids, but still. I could not imagine their perspective at all. The fact that this chapter gave Reiner's perspective and the fact that it's actually really understandable and almost sympathetic, in a hosed up way, is honestly pretty drat amazing. Reiner is a really interesting character, and the Marleyan/Eldian/rest of the world dynamic is really well done, honestly. It's complicated enough to seem plausible, but not so complicated that it's hard for the reader to grasp. It's a big situation that's had really hosed up personal consequences for major characters we've known all along, and we had no idea it was out there. Speaking of things I couldn't imagine- the basement reveal was good. I couldn't imagine how it could be worth the buildup before hand, and at the time I felt it was an adequately mind blowing reveal, probably the best we were going to get, but as time goes on and the outside world is the sustained focus of the manga... it's really good!
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Jul 8, 2017 03:38
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Nina posted:With the imagery of the latest chapter I refuse to believe the concept of titans isn't supposed to at least very partially be nuclear allegory. As an icon the colossal titan is the mushroom cloud of this setting and the geopolitical situation of the world is basically "What if nuclear weapons were incredibly finite so deterrence can't exist and whoever has them will be mistrusted and hated by default out of fear" The Founding Titan... A weapon to surpass Metal Gear!!
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Jul 8, 2017 04:15
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Gantolandon posted:I recently tried to understand warrior/soldier dichotomy as presented and it seems to me that its translation made it a bit unclear. When presented in these words, it seems like the infiltrator trio were some plucky irregulars as opposed to parts of organized military - the manga clearly proved it's not the case. The words used in Japanese original are "senshi" and "heishi". Both are used to present a person who fights in a war, but when the latter means your usual schmuck given a weapon and told to kill enemies, the former is a bit more similar to an elite fighter or a war hero. It's someone brave and courageous who lives to fight and is ready to take insane sacrifices to defeat the enemy. Which makes perfect sense given who Berthold, Reiner and Annie are - they gave up everything, including a possibility to live normal lives, for their country. They are the perfect fascist soldiers. The twist is that Marley secured their loyalty by filling them with self-hate, ensuring they are not able to live normal lives and holding their families hostage. I think it's just meant to indicate that the Eldian warriors under Marley's direction are an irregular force with a limited hierarchy (with Zeke seemingly being the most heavily indoctrinated, so he's the one who keeps an eye on the others and calls the shots) whereas the army inside the walls is... uh, an army. Just another part of how THE MAN is keeping the Eldian brothers and sisters down. Soldiers are officially recognized employees of a legitimate governing body. Designating the Titan shifters as "warriors" really gives the impression of 1) Eldians aren't a real part of society so they're kept separated from everyone else even when serving the same purpose (fighting wars) 2) The Titans are just weapons, not troops. Throw them at the enemy and that'll do. Don't give them a rank, don't give them pay or benefits above a minimum level, and don't give them any ideas about being able to further their station in life beyond "slightly less oppressed" To put it differently, the Titan snifters are government sponsored terrorists and Zeke is the CIA agent managing the whole nightmarish enterprise
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Jul 8, 2017 04:49
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The situation is grim. No one expected the Paradis Eldians to assault the Taybar war declaration. Hundreds in the crowd died instantly when the Colossus appeared. There was a storm of steel and gunfire. King Taybar saw the Armored's head torn clean off, Jaws bisected after lounging after the asian girl who killed the Mule. Zeke ran in terror of a short fop. His guards barely got him into the mansion before the raging titan could catch him. "My liege, we're surrounded. Half the guards have run away and the Colossus has destroyed the roads out." King Taybar of Eldia put on his sunglasses. "After all these years it's finally time to use it. Rally the men! It's Hammer Time!"
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Jul 8, 2017 06:24
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Eiba posted:Reiner is a really interesting character, and the Marleyan/Eldian/rest of the world dynamic is really well done, honestly. It's complicated enough to seem plausible, but not so complicated that it's hard for the reader to grasp. It's a big situation that's had really hosed up personal consequences for major characters we've known all along, and we had no idea it was out there. I remember rolling my eyes at how AOT indulged the "teens are the only ones entrusted with controlling the giant fighting robots" cliche, but the latest chapters have had a great tension between the Marley's stated reason of "child shifters have more latent potential" and the unstated rationale of "child soldiers are easier to brainwash and less likely to be covertly involved in resistance factions". Most of the recruits seem to have serious doubts about what they're doing, but are so trapped in paranoid despondency that it's a moot point.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:35
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I can see Pieck has been taking posture lessons from Yoshihiro Togashi.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:48
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Pieck is the Sasha of the Eldians.
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Jul 8, 2017 22:03
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Calling it now that the other world factions are gonna declare on both Marely and Paradis when the war starts out of both sheer hatred and perceived weakness. World War Titan is gonna decimate the world's population, and I can't wait.
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Jul 8, 2017 22:57
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Calling it now that the other world factions are gonna declare on both Marely and Paradis when the war starts out of both sheer hatred and perceived weakness. I can't help but wonder how much Eldians really differ from Marleyans. Officially they are completely different races, with the former being able to be turned into titans and the latter isn't. However, I doubt this is really the case. What would be the point of giving some Eldians the status of honorary Marleyans and risk them spreading titanification gene - we already know half-Eldians aren't different from their full-blooded compatriots. Also, how could Marley take control of seven out of nine titan powers without being able to devour their owners and claim the power for themselves?
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Jul 8, 2017 23:19
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Gantolandon posted:What would be the point of giving some Eldians the status of honorary Marleyans and risk them spreading titanification gene - we already know half-Eldians aren't different from their full-blooded compatriots. Even if "honorary Marleyans" are legally permitted to form families with non-Eldian Marleyans, that doesn't seem to ever happen. Reiner's father was horrified that his son became a titan shifter.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:25
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Raws are out. More flashbacks. Focuses on how Reiner, Bert and Annie cope with losing Marcel and proceed with the attack on Paradise.
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Aug 4, 2017 15:43
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A tortoise covered in molasses, crawling uphill.
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Aug 4, 2017 15:44
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At this point the flashbacks are necessary to remind people what they started out reading in the first place
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Aug 4, 2017 21:01
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The flashbacks are cool because they expand on stuff that was sort of implied but unanswered how they attacked the wall, Annie's role, where their cover story came from, etc.. At the same time it's also frustrating because it's been several chapters since the timeskip and we still haven't seen any of the dudes from Paradise and have no idea what they're planning. It seems like we might still be a chapter or two away from returning to Eren and co.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:29
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JahRoo posted:The flashbacks are cool because they expand on stuff that was sort of implied but unanswered how they attacked the wall, Annie's role, where their cover story came from, etc.. At the same time it's also frustrating because it's been several chapters since the timeskip and we still haven't seen any of the dudes from Paradise and have no idea what they're planning. It seems like we might still be a chapter or two away from returning to Eren and co. It's probably because their return to the story is going to be explosive and violent and things need to be properly set up before they are demolished.
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Aug 4, 2017 22:01
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ImpAtom posted:It's probably because their return to the story is going to be explosive and violent and things need to be properly set up before they are demolished. The anticipation is killing me. 
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Aug 4, 2017 22:24
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ImpAtom posted:It's probably because their return to the story is going to be explosive and violent and things need to be properly set up before they are demolished. In my experience reading manga, you see flashbacks right before characters die. So if that's any indication, in the coming chapters a whole lot of people are going to die.
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Aug 4, 2017 22:25
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It just sucks waiting four months for anything relevant to happen. Is this stuff interesting? Sure, but I'd much rather take a drat summary than waste yet another chapter on a group of four who only has one active member currently alive-ish. Let's time skip! And then uh.......skip backwards a little bit....then skip forward again! Hell yeah!
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Aug 4, 2017 23:12
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ImpAtom posted:It's probably because their return to the story is going to be explosive and violent and things need to be properly set up before they are demolished. I will hold you personally accountable if this turns out to be wrong At least it's not being a cocktease like the wait leading up to the big battle for the basement, since we already know what happens re: these flashbacks
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Aug 5, 2017 15:15
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Shinjobi posted:It just sucks waiting four months for anything relevant to happen. Is this stuff interesting? Sure, but I'd much rather take a drat summary than waste yet another chapter on a group of four who only has one active member currently alive-ish. i can not wait to see the complaints when it turns out the whole drat story is just one big flashback from someone in the future
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Aug 5, 2017 16:03
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gently caress, I will die.
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Aug 5, 2017 16:14
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chapter's up in english http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Shingeki-no-Kyojin/Chapter-096?id=376940
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Aug 5, 2017 16:51
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I think this was a good chapter, but agree that next chapter should be a return to the present and poo poo goes down. It's been a while. One piece having 8-chapter-long flashbacks is fine since it's weekly, but 4+ months of flashbacks in a monthly series is a bit much.
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Aug 5, 2017 17:22
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A fantastic chapter. It's been a while since this comic has been this outright horrific. The three being chased by titans on the way to the wall, the titan in the window, the kids flat murdering a dude who abandoned his children, to the imagined scene of the wall colossuses being let lose against the world, everything here really sells just how terrifying everything is. The best was probably early on when Annie brutalized Reiner, only to in turn get caught in a headlock by a kid with only half a face. (It's also a callback/callforward to how Reiner was defeated by Eren later on, with Reiner being grappled. Why did Reiner win against Annie only to lose in the same manner against Eren? Because when fighting Annie, he was determined to become Marcel, to be a warrior. When he fought Eren, he was conflicted!) Also, this:
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Aug 5, 2017 17:45
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The chapter was worth it because it clarified one important point: they were not infiltrated in the Eldian society when the attack started with Colossal opening up the wall. I always thought they infiltrated much more mundanely, like entering form the doors saying they were from a remote village, they scouted the area, integrated with the rest, and months later, they started the attack. But from what we have seen, they really didn't know what was inside the walls (normal humans, not 'demons') when they attacked, and they were in a desperate position. Also, this: 
Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 21:54
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Reiner grows more tragic every month. Everybody so far but his mom and Bert have told him he should die or be eaten. Looks like we'll need 1 or 2 more chapters to show him developing his split-personality. I just hope after this arc is over we flashforward to Marley boats arriving to Paradis.
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Aug 5, 2017 22:08
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Sub Harrison posted:Looks like we'll need 1 or 2 more chapters to show him developing his split-personality. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the end of the flashback. I really don't know how much more we need to see.
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Aug 5, 2017 22:17
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drat, what a loving good flashback. We didn't exactly learn anything new, but it answered the biggest question I've had for years. What the gently caress were they thinking when they smashed the walls? And honestly... this is a really good answer. It totally justifies all the stuff we've seen outside the wall after the time skip. We needed to be immersed in that world, to understand Reiner's real world, to know why three scared kids ended up committing such a horrific act. That scene of Bertolt looking over the wall... that ridiculously iconic scene that started everything... we now know the fear and desperation that was behind that moment. Recontextualizing everything so completely is a really incredible feat, that I didn't even realize this arc was working up to. We've known all the facts and the general motivations for a while now. There was no sudden revelation in this chapter. But seeing it happen is something else entirely. If the basement reveal was "oh. wow. that's different. huh." that changed everything without having any real emotional satisfaction this was the emotional reveal that pairs with it. Not only is everything different than we thought, but holy poo poo is it hosed up. Honestly, I almost don't even care about what happens after this. This was the story of Attack on Titan to me.
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Aug 5, 2017 23:29
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