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Duel to the Death BB2 Enchantment Cumulative upkeep: Each player draws a card. Whenever a player draws a card they lose 1 life. will make pretty card later. L0cke17 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 16:41
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Kuiperdolin posted:If the top three are dead you may put them under, and then there's no real reason not to pay the echo cost. Also you can't pay a cost of 'shuffle your deck.' It needs to be echo for 0 and then "when you pay this echo cost, shuffle your deck."
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Jun 28, 2017 17:49
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Kor Quartermaster 2W Creature- Kor Soldier {4}{t}, Attach an Equipment you control to target creature you control: Create a 1/1 white Kor Soldier token. 0/4 I like that making this into a cost makes it stronger.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:00
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PJOmega posted:Also you can't pay a cost of 'shuffle your deck.' It needs to be echo for 0 and then "when you pay this echo cost, shuffle your deck." How is this different than Cumulative Upkeep add R to your mana pool?
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Jun 28, 2017 18:17
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Lone Goat posted:How is this different than Cumulative Upkeep add R to your mana pool? Cumulative Upkeep posted:Cumulative upkeep (cost) (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent is on the battlefield, put an age counter on this permanent. Then you may pay (cost) for each age counter on it. If you don’t, sacrifice it.) Echo posted:Echo (cost) (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its echo cost.) Realistically it comes down to precedence. Braid of Fire is acknowledged by official ruling as a "very unusual card," and we have an unusual echo template of "echo 0, if you pay the echo cost do thing" already in existence due to Shah of Nar Isle. Plus allows drawback echo effects with cards built around mitigating echo like Thick Skinned Goblin Indeed there are only 2 non-mana echo costs, one discarding a card and the other sacrificing two lands. Cumulative Upkeep comes from a lawless time that has rules cludges to make it work. Rules wise, the age counters allow cumulative Upkeep to have odd effects and ugggghhhh. The example of Psychic Vortex and Obstinate Familiar is a wonderful example of how lovely Cumulative Upkeep is.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:52
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Jun 28, 2017 19:00
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One With Nothing just started crying.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:38
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PMush Perfect posted:One With Nothing just started crying. Thanks! I've been playing a lot of decks that go off at instant speed lately so a Wheel that only works for instants that you're able to cast right now appeals. ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 19:59
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outside of some cheeky madness shenanigans, I'm not sure what this gets you that milling yourself for 7+ cards doesn't. I mean, I guess you can stifle or fire off some instants since this is on the stack while you have +7 cards in hand. Seems real hard to make useful
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Jun 28, 2017 20:04
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TheChirurgeon posted:outside of some cheeky madness shenanigans, I'm not sure what this gets you that milling yourself for 7+ cards doesn't. Countering your own spell.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:08
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TheChirurgeon posted:outside of some cheeky madness shenanigans, I'm not sure what this gets you that milling yourself for 7+ cards doesn't. It's not intended to be an all-star or anything. Just that making the draw the cost means nobody can stop you from doing it and having the discard on resolve means you get the chance to play any instants you drew before the discard happens. Obviously the optimal situation is an EDH storm deck where it's really easy to punt up infinite mana and then dive through your entire deck with shenanigans, in which case this is just a weird wheel that can't be countered. Or you could counter the spell yourself with a Remand you drew off of it to get the draw and avoid the discard or, like you said, do some cheeky madness stuff. There's some weird tricks. ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 20:08
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It works particularly well with, appropriately for this contest, another card with an unusual cost:
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Jun 28, 2017 20:12
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It gets you instants and abilities. It gets you at least a 9/9 Noose Constrictor or Wild Mongrel. It gets you a permanently 9/9 Lorescale Coatl. Anything equipped with a diviner's wand is now a huge evasive threat. There's all the Amonkhet 'Whenever you discard or cycle' triggers.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:14
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yeah, OK fair enough
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Jun 28, 2017 20:24
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What, no mention of B/R Madness? Edit    girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 20:34
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PJOmega posted:Realistically it comes down to precedence. Braid of Fire is acknowledged by official ruling as a "very unusual card," and we have an unusual echo template of "echo 0, if you pay the echo cost do thing" already in existence due to Shah of Nar Isle. Plus allows drawback echo effects with cards built around mitigating echo like Thick Skinned Goblin Weird cumulative upkeep came from a lawless time of 10 months before weird echo costs. None of what you said explains why shuffling can't be an echo cost, and Thick Skinned Goblin's existance is an argument otherwise.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:14
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Lone Goat posted:Weird cumulative upkeep came from a lawless time of 10 months before weird echo costs. None of what you said explains why shuffling can't be an echo cost, and Thick Skinned Goblin's existance is an argument otherwise. Sorry, thought putting the rules text right there would make it apparent. Cumulative Upkeep is "do x for each age counter or sac this" versus echo's "sac this unless you do x." It's a weirdly corner wording that wouldn't be different except for CU being created under a similar but different rule set. It's the same vein as Banding or Animate Dead being simple to understand but to function as intended requires a whole lot of rules that are way less intuitive than the concept. We already have an established template for downside echo, and since no other effect in the game has "shuffle your deck" as a cost it's bad form to introduce it. Both "discard a card" and "sacrifice two lands" are set as costs so that interactions with Thick Skinned Goblin can work but also so that they're actually costs. If they followed the 0, if echo is paid do x template then they wouldn't be a cost if you were hellbent or somehow didn't have 2 lands to sacrifice. Can a card introduce shuffling as a cost? Yes. Sure. Well maybe. I'd have to look at all the rulings concerning decks like 4 horsemen. Cards beat rules. All things are possible, even outside of unsets. You could port Leeroy Jenkin's WoWTCG effect over but it's probably not a good idea. Though I can see the bug reports for MODO already, "microphone refused to pick up my shouting." -------- All that ignores that minimizing a player shuffling on their turn is a good goal for time purposes. Putting a shuffle effect right before the draw step is problematic, as you can't shortcut past it and shuffle later since its effect is immediate. But that's an opinion on the card itself, not the mechanics of the card.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:53
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This looks like it'd be solid in Dredge right? 7 potential Dredges, and you get to toss whatever you have in your hand? Then again, does it need more enablers or?
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Jun 28, 2017 22:22
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I would guess that card is legitimately broken, but development will fix it
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Jun 28, 2017 22:44
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The worst submarine fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 18:45
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   e: changed the last card Nebalebadingdong fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 20:13
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 e: I pushed this a bit too much and also forgot threat of activation was a thing so here's a different version 
Eeevil fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 07:24
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 Something old.  And something new.
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Jul 3, 2017 01:23
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Final Offering (until I change my mind) :  (Made it worse body/smaller cost so it's a harder choice between the scry and the body ; I agree that templating will probably want to make it uglier but oh well) 
Kuiperdolin fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 21:08
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Third Place Eeevil's Death Lord: It's a nice card, and letting your opponent retrieve cards from their graveyard is an interesting cost space that hasn't really been explored. Second Place ZeroCount's Crazy Spin: Drawing cards as a cost is really cool, and the way this is structured to make the fact that it's a cost crucial is great. My one reservation is that this might actually be too strong -- in a Grixis deck you can fairly easily counter it, even with effects like "counter target spell unless its controller pays 1" that are normally weaker counters. I'd give it a "can't be countered" clause so that instead of just saying "Pay 4 mana, discard a counterspell, draw 7", it's asking you to do more interesting things with it. I feel like the design intent was more "play instants, use Madness, discard to on-board abilities, or use one of those specialized expensive counterspells that exiles without countering" rather than "play a counterspell" anyhow. First Place Kuiperdolin's Elusive Consigliere: This was not a hard decision. I love this card. "Shuffle your library" is exactly the sort of of completely off-the-wall cost I was hoping to see in this contest, and far from being a random gimmick here it's a real cost that opens up a ton of interesting decision-making. A perfect entry. Congratulations Kuiperdolin!
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Jul 6, 2017 16:17
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Aw, thank you. The next theme is brought to us by our sponsor :  HAND SIZE MATTERS Sometimes having a big hand is good :  Sometimes it's bad :  Sometimes it's a mixed blessing:  Sometimes it's your opponent's hand size that matters :  Anyway you get the idea. A card that cares about hand size. Deadline is July 17th at 23:59 Central European Time. Kuiperdolin fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 23:19
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im sure theres more than a handful of thread regulars trying to make a current-events small hand joke into a card atm
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Jul 6, 2017 23:49
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The image links in your post are broken for me.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:06
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PMush Perfect posted:The image links in your post are broken for me. 
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Jul 7, 2017 00:37
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Oh, I see what the issue is. Don't hotlink directly to the Wizards site. Save the images and upload them to Imgur or something.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:39
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Oddly, they work through Awful app. Fwiw when I need card images I just grab them off of scg or something
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Jul 7, 2017 00:59
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 Ugh, Cardsmith's text still looks so weird to me. I may remake this later.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:58
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Here's the ideal study book for the apprentice mage. Trouble retaining your lessons? Here's a boost. Struggling to keep a good amount in order? Here's help sorting through what you have. Ready to take a step up? Here's some elementary but shockingly practical spells to work with.
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Jul 7, 2017 04:28
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 The keywords are arranged deliberately so that you want the number of cards in hands to be odd when declaring attackers/blockers, but even when dealing combat damage. Its combat damage keywords are made particularly important because it has more power than toughness. Since it counts both players' hands, both players can manipulate the total at instant speed to turn its currently-relevant effects on and off. (It also has one ability for each of its colors in each mode.)
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Jul 7, 2017 10:40
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Wonderful. Just wonderful.
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Jul 7, 2017 17:33
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The worst submarine fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 22:34
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OK images should be fixed.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:48
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 Sort of inspired by Vial-Smasher, he goes off at the end of turn so he penalises you for actually playing any of your cards. On the other hand blue/red both like to play in other people's turns so if that's your gameplan than you're golden. (Whether such a deck would actually want a 5-drop that does this is a different matter). They're both strong card draw colours as well. Izzet Librarian was most likely first printed in a Commander precon.
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Jul 10, 2017 08:09
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I'd make it each opponent if it is intended for Commander. Plays better with the political aspects than random.
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Jul 10, 2017 13:25
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Formerly this prevented spells from being cast instead of increasing the cost, which could be an easy lockout with specters. I'm not sure what the wording should be for the updated version.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:33
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