|
Part of the problem with extended warranties are what they don't cover. It'd be one thing if the warranty actually did cover everything - warranties like that usually come through the automaker themselves. Third-party warranties tend to have a list of exclusions that's longer than the list of repairs they do cover. For example, a friend of mine bought a Prius and an extended warranty. What's the most expensive repair that a Prius owner will possibly experience? HV battery replacement. Which was conveniently specifically excluded by the warranty, and even circled in the brochure by the salesman.  Luckily he was still barely within the Toyota emissions warranty when the HV battery died.
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 14:49 |
|
|
Deteriorata posted:The profit margins are generally pretty big. If people are so concerned, they should put the money they would be spending on an extended warranty in a bank account and pay for the repairs out of that. They'll be shocked at how much money is left over after five years. I agree that is what people should do, but that kind of sidesteps the peace of mind you get from the "what if you have a $4000 repair bill".
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 19:13
|
|
|
Thermopyle posted:I agree that is what people should do, but that kind of sidesteps the peace of mind you get from the "what if you have a $4000 repair bill". Extended warranties basically exist to sucker people who don't know much about cars and don't trust their own judgment about them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 19:31
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:Almost no one actually gets hit with a large repair bill like that, though, so you pay through the nose for that peace of mind. Being willing to accept a bit of risk in life generally puts you way ahead. Yes, extended warranties do mainly exist to sucker such people. I just feel like you're over confident in your belief that there's no way that buying an extended warranty can be worth it when accounting for intangibles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
If the extended warranty didn't make a great deal of money for someone who isn't the buyer, they wouldn't try so hard to sell them. I get that it's a lot easier to tell the Best Buy drone to shove their extended warranty on AA batteries than it is a $12,000 necessity but you probably still should.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:39
|
|
|
Apropos of nothing, but speaking of batteries and profit margins, I recently noticed a 4-pack of Duracell AAs at Walgreens is like 4.99 or 5.99. At the dollar store a couple doors down the store brand is $1. There's no way those Walgreens batteries last 5x longer, profit margins be crazy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 21:18
|
|
|
IRQ posted:If the extended warranty didn't make a great deal of money for someone who isn't the buyer, they wouldn't try so hard to sell them. I get that it's a lot easier to tell the Best Buy drone to shove their extended warranty on AA batteries than it is a $12,000 necessity but you probably still should. That doesn't really have a lot to do with my argument. My argument is that for some people in some situations what they're buying for that money is worth it. How much profit people are making on it doesn't really factor in for these people. On the other hand, most people who are already buying at the limit of their budget and trying to min-max the pure financial side of it should avoid them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
Thermopyle posted:That doesn't really have a lot to do with my argument. My argument is that for some people in some situations what they're buying for that money is worth it. How much profit people are making on it doesn't really factor in for these people. Of course that peace of mind may be subjectively worth it to some, but that doesn't necessarily make it an objectively intelligent financial decision. Two different topics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
Thermopyle posted:That doesn't really have a lot to do with my argument. My argument is that for some people in some situations what they're buying for that money is worth it. How much profit people are making on it doesn't really factor in for these people. I wasn't really trying to refute that. When my Mom buys a car in the next few months she'll buy all that garbage and I won't try to talk her out of it because she has the money and is super paranoid about cars breaking down.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
Sits on Pilster posted:Of course that peace of mind may be subjectively worth it to some, but that doesn't necessarily make it an objectively intelligent financial decision. Two different topics. Yes, thats my point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Honestly with as much trouble as I have had in my life with ac in various cars and trucks, I'd grab the extended warranty on that alone. I live in La though so hot and humid is a way of life here. Also, anyone have any opinions on the 08 Ford edge vs an 09 Nissan Murano? I'm still shopping around but I like those 2, and I dig the whole console/sync thing the edge has going on. Both are around the 6k mark. Similar mileage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 05:16
|
|
|
This discussion actually ties in to something I wanted to ask about. What about mechanical break-down insurance? From my understanding this is better than an extended warranty as it's governed by insurance regulation versus nothing for warranties. I was looking at prices of this the other day and it's $1300 over three years which would cover one major problem for a Euro car for example, thus making it well worth it. Second question which relates to the first; is this the thread for recommendations on cars which err towards less practical/BFC? I'm thinking about changing my current car but want to maybe get something a bit more AI.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 05:22
|
|
|
What's the smallest-engined and/or cheapest road-legal-in-North-America pickup truck that will hold a 4'X8' sheet of plywood laying flat in the bed?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 08:04
|
|
|
What ever full size pickup has the best rebate currently going. Used are readily available though. Also a Sienna minivan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 08:40
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Honestly with as much trouble as I have had in my life with ac in various cars and trucks, I'd grab the extended warranty on that alone. I live in La though so hot and humid is a way of life here. Don't buy a 10 year old Nissan withh a CVT.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 10:31
|
|
|
Red_Fred posted:This discussion actually ties in to something I wanted to ask about. What about mechanical break-down insurance? From my understanding this is better than an extended warranty as it's governed by insurance regulation versus nothing for warranties. I was looking at prices of this the other day and it's $1300 over three years which would cover one major problem for a Euro car for example, thus making it well worth it. Well, it's a matter of what the odds are that your car actually has a mechanical breakdown costing more than $1300 over the next three years. The purpose of insurance is to protect you against a loss you couldn't cover otherwise. If you have a means to pay that loss off (through monthly payments or whatever), then you're not actually getting anything of value with the insurance. You can ask away about impractical cars here, too. We've got lots of impractical car advice. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
Red_Fred posted:Second question which relates to the first; is this the thread for recommendations on cars which err towards less practical/BFC? I'm thinking about changing my current car but want to maybe get something a bit more AI. Seems like people in here know about all kinds of different cars and won't give you poo poo for wanting a fun car so long as you're not trying to somehow justify it as a smart financial decision. Personally I would love to live vicariously through someone buying something fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
prom candy posted:Seems like people in here know about all kinds of different cars and won't give you poo poo for wanting a fun car so long as you're not trying to somehow justify it as a smart financial decision. This. There's nothing wrong with wanting a new / fun / luxurious car if that's what you want. The only people who are going to get told to back the gently caress up on a choice is if they say they're doing it to avoid the cost of maintaining a perfectly good used car, or they say that reliability and mileage are their first priorities but how about that Dodge Demon?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 17:30
|
|
|
I loving love impractical cars but if someone comes in saying they got three hundo a month and a thousand dollars on the nail and they like reliable, good on gas, etc, I sure as gently caress am not going to say Well You Look Like The Kind Of Guy Who Could Use A Alfa Romeo Brera
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 17:44
|
|
|
Throatwarbler posted:Don't buy a 10 year old Nissan withh a CVT. Any particular reason? Were they crap that year?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:25
|
|
|
Earlier Nissan CVTs were not good and known to break. Some cars had the warranty extended to cover them, 10 years or 120k miles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
I'm researching Subarus, there appear to be a poo poo-ton of subaru impreza hatchbacks out there. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with them I should know about?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
TheCog posted:I'm researching Subarus, there appear to be a poo poo-ton of subaru impreza hatchbacks out there. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with them I should know about? Subarus need a lot of repairs and maintenance. They're among the most expensive in that regard. However, the average is pretty low so being above it isn't that big of a handicap. Edmunds' TCO calculator rates a 2015 Impreza at $125 per month for maintenance and repair. The average for that class of car is about $105. Lots of people love their Subarus, though, so if you like it go for it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
OK then here goes: Proposed Budget: Up to ~$20k NZD New or Used: Used Body Style: Coupe, hatchback or small wagon How will you be using the car?: I walk to work and therefore mainly use my car for errands, trips and general weekend driving. About 100km a week or so on average. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: Some-what yes but not essential What aspects are most important to you? Fun to drive > power > looks > safety > relative fuel economy > reliability If you do not live in the U.S. you should probably say so because what's available can vary a lot. I'm in New Zealand. I have been driving a 2002 Toyota Altezza Gita (Lexus IS300 wagon) for the last 8 years. In that time I've put about 100k Km on it and spent a total of $1700 NZD on repairs, all other costs have been maintenance so that thing has been extremely reliable. There is currently nothing wrong with it but given it's age things are going to start fall apart as I'm starting to see and it's getting close to it's second timing belt change which I don't really want to pay for. My dream scenario would be to buy a Porsche 944 or 928 that I can work on myself while keeping the Toyota as my 'daily'. However my current situation won't allow for this (nowhere to work on my own car) so I'm thinking about swapping out my Toyota for something a bit newer and more fun. Something that is faster than my Toyota would be ideal. Things I'm considering: BMW 135i (2008-2010) Ford Fieta ST (2014 on) Mazda Speed 3/MPS (2009-2013) Subaru Imprezza WRX (2009-2011) So I'm looking for any recommendations similar to the cars above and fitting my criteria. Note that being in New Zealand we get very easy access to Japanese imports but don't get American cars really. Related to that it will be difficult to comment on price so just throw recommendations my way and I can cross check if that fits with our crazy moon currency.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
Others to consider: FIAT 500 Abarth Mini JCW turbo VW Golf GTI Not much storage space but lots of fun: Honda S2000 Mazda MX-5 Toyota MR2 Mazda RX-8 Since your main criterion is fun and fun is completely subjective, just go try a bunch. You can't go too far wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:Others to consider: Thanks. I'm keen to avoid basket cases which means I should rule out Fiats, Minis and the RX8. I also have a specific aversion to VW so that's out too. The others I'll look into but keep the suggestions coming.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
Red_Fred posted:Thanks. I'm keen to avoid basket cases which means I should rule out Fiats, Minis and the RX8. I also have a specific aversion to VW so that's out too. The others I'll look into but keep the suggestions coming. You should probably rule out the 10-year-old BMW and Subaru, as well, then. They're worse than a FIAT. From the Edmunds TCO 5-year repair and maintenance estimates: 2015 FIAT 500: $117/mo 2015 Subaru Impreza: $125/mo 2015 Mini Coupe: $130/mo 2013 BMW 1-series: $304/mo ETA: A 2011 RX-8 is dirt cheap at $120/mo. (Edmunds TCO estimate is for the American market. Cars in NZ may be sourced from different places than what the US gets, so there may be variations in international manufacturing) Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jul 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 03:59
|
|
|
I really don't think that TCO number is reflective of actual costs to own an RX-8.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 05:39
|
|
|
I feel like it doesn't give the full picture particularly well either. As Fiat parts and labour are going to be cheaper than BMW generally so would you rather 10 breakdowns at $100 each or one at $1000 per year? I'm probably going to get some sort of mechanical insurance if I get something like the BMW. This would mean the breakdown cost isn't as relevant as one big item on that BMW is going to payback on that insurance almost straight away. Well, in my crazy ideas world at least.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 05:56
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:You should probably rule out the 10-year-old BMW and Subaru, as well, then. They're worse than a FIAT. When the Rx8 is the cheapest maintenance, you know the data is garbage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 11:52
|
|
|
Yeah, and I still think the figures for small, historically-reliable cars is too high. Things like the Corolla, Yaris, Fit, etc. are amazingly cheap to operate for the first 125-150K miles, and even when things start to break, they're much much cheaper to fix than anything Euro and most domestics. Source: I was a mechanic in a low-income area for years and therefore worked on a ton of cars with iffy maintenance histories and lots of miles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 13:04
|
|
|
big crush on Chad OMG posted:When the Rx8 is the cheapest maintenance, you know the data is garbage. Edmunds isn't the only one. https://repairpal.com/mazda/rx-8  Perhaps the flaw is not in the numbers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 13:14
|
|
|
big crush on Chad OMG posted:When the Rx8 is the cheapest maintenance, you know the data is garbage. Mazda extended the warranty on the rotaries that should cover any engine related expenses within whatever time period this is in. The high cost for the BMW 1 series isn't surprising either since it includes all the hi power 135, 1M etc that have the big turbo engine that eats fuel pumps and 6 piston brakes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 13:17
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:Edmunds isn't the only one. It probably doesn't track it as a repair when you scrap the car because the RENESIS is a huge pile of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 13:26
|
|
|
JnnyThndrs posted:Yeah, and I still think the figures for small, historically-reliable cars is too high. Things like the Corolla, Yaris, Fit, etc. are amazingly cheap to operate for the first 125-150K miles, and even when things start to break, they're much much cheaper to fix than anything Euro and most domestics. It sounds like you have your mind set on the BMW and are looking for something more like absolution than advice. Go in peace, enjoy your car.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:Perhaps the flaw is not in the numbers. No, it's in the apex seals. Seriously, you need to back off of treating Edmunds / other data for this as gospel. Go look at Craigslist and see how many dead/dying RX8s are for sale for dirt loving cheap. This car drat near bankrupted Mazda on warranty claims.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:04
|
|
|
How does that TCO data handle one time major repairs? So, maybe the RX8 functions just fine for 2 years and then the engine dies and its a 4 grand 2 week repair whereas something else that has the same average per/month cost needs an alternator one year, a radiator another year, etc. I'd certainly rather have several 1 day repairs than one 2 week repair. Most people can fit the smaller repairs into their budget.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:34
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:No, it's in the apex seals. Note that I was not commenting on the RX8 generally. Most of the problems with the RX8 came in the 20004-7 model years. By the end of the run most of those problems had been corrected. A 2011 MY, specifically, was a pretty good car and was why I included it. I'm trained as a scientist. I inherently trust numbers over anecdotes. I stand by the numbers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
Deteriorata posted:Note that I was not commenting on the RX8 generally. Most of the problems with the RX8 came in the 20004-7 model years. By the end of the run most of those problems had been corrected. A 2011 MY, specifically, was a pretty good car and was why I included it. Do any of the groups getting those numbers explain their process, or show the data behind the numbers? As a scientist, I wouldn't trust numbers at all without understanding the method behind them, when they are all coming from for-profit groups. There is nothing magical about numbers, there are still humans behind the data collection. Data only beats anecdotes when it is properly taken and analyzed by an unbiased experimenter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 17:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 14:49 |
|
|
ShadeofBlue posted:Do any of the groups getting those numbers explain their process, or show the data behind the numbers? As a scientist, I wouldn't trust numbers at all without understanding the method behind them, when they are all coming from for-profit groups. There is nothing magical about numbers, there are still humans behind the data collection. Data only beats anecdotes when it is properly taken and analyzed by an unbiased experimenter. Edmunds derives their numbers from the cost of a zero-deductible extended warranty for each car, along with the recommended maintenance work at the intervals spelled out in the owner's manual. It's not perfect, but it's reasonably unbiased. Cars that are expected to have high repair costs are certainly going to have more expensive EWs. It's a large step up from "my friend's cousin had one of those" stories.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 17:29
|
|