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e X posted:If it was Michael O'Hare's departure that derailed the whole Babylon prime idea, than it really was a blessing in disguise, because the whole thing sounds horribly convoluted in my ears. Babylon 5's politics were its strongest part and as it sounds, a lot of that would have been lost in favor of time travel shenanigans and more mystic stuff, that was always pretty much hit and miss. Aka "See what SeaQuest did? Don't do that."
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Jul 13, 2017 13:57
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Aka "See what SeaQuest did? Don't do that."  It's times like this that I remember that SeaQuest was a show that I watched
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Jul 13, 2017 14:02
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e X posted:If it was Michael O'Hare's departure that derailed the whole Babylon prime idea, than it really was a blessing in disguise, because the whole thing sounds horribly convoluted in my ears. Babylon 5's politics were its strongest part and as it sounds, a lot of that would have been lost in favor of time travel shenanigans and more mystic stuff, that was always pretty much hit and miss. To echo a line from B5, I think JMS saw it as an opportunity and not a burden. The original B5 outline contained just about nothing that people came to remember B5 for. Things like the Babylonian order/chaos dichotomy, the EA Civil War, even small character things like G'Kar's whole arc, the fact that it had a bit more 90s grit than Star Trek ever had... I watched Season 1 recently with the original outline in mind and there's a ton of things that make more sense with it in mind (basically anything to do with the Minbari, for example). They still work in the context of the series, because JMS was absurdly good at essentially rethreading his story when Sheridan took over from Sinclair, but without getting too far into it -- and watching the first Season again to be accurate -- the first season has a very different feel. edit: And it's a credit to JMS that, when faced with a new protagonist, he didn't just awkwardly mash Sinclair's story onto a new character. He shuffled the stuff that Sinclair was to be very involved with to the background and seemed to write a new character who would handle an expansion of things in the original plotline that were basically set dressing (the Vorlon and Shadow conflict, for example, and corruption on Earth). Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 14:37
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Even bigger than the Roddenberry cult? Thank you for posting all of that. Seriously a fascinating read and easily collected for our threads enjoyment. There was probably even more political shenanigans behind the scenes than on the onscreen. Shenanigans. Saw that word three times in the thread so far. Just fun to type. Shenanigans. Milky Moor posted:To echo a line from B5, I think JMS saw it as an opportunity and not a burden. The original B5 outline contained just about nothing that people came to remember B5 for. Things like the Babylonian order/chaos dichotomy, the EA Civil War, even small character things like G'Kar's whole arc, the fact that it had a bit more 90s grit than Star Trek ever had... From the various bits around you are 100% spot on, gentle güne. Glad of it personally. The original story might've been alright but the force of nature that was Sheridan really made b5 for me. He was brash, bull headed, loud and stubborn. Yet the same guy could be gentle, compassionate and help grow and lead a long forgotten covert operations unit. He was just so incredibly... human. Complexity, flaws and all. Stereotypically so. Sinclair would have been a quieter journey. Might've been just as good but to that younger tweener me? Outside of Londo and G'Kar, nothing sold b5 to me like Sheridan's "get the hell out of our galaxy" attitude. Still wish, in this golden age of television we find ourselves in, that someone would make a epic space opera as well done as B5. Yeah 5 years back there was no way... but in these days of GoT, Black Sails, Fargo, Breaking Bad, Preacher, Westworld? Yeah it could happen.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:59
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Von_Doom posted:Thank you for posting all of that. Seriously a fascinating read and easily collected for our threads enjoyment. There was probably even more political shenanigans behind the scenes than on the onscreen. Shenanigans. Saw that word three times in the thread so far. Just fun to type. Shenanigans. Have you been watching Killjoys? Because you should really watch Killjoys.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:25
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Von_Doom posted:Still wish, in this golden age of television we find ourselves in, that someone would make a epic space opera as well done as B5. Yeah 5 years back there was no way... but in these days of GoT, Black Sails, Fargo, Breaking Bad, Preacher, Westworld? Yeah it could happen. I'd like to see it, but I'm not holding my breath. You could do all of the peripheral stuff, like the plot, space battles, etc. But I don't know that anyone could really capture what made B5 so great, which is even beyond the individual characters, as good as they are: there's an almost ineffable heart or spirit of the show that is truly its best quality.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:45
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I'd like to see it, but I'm not holding my breath. You could do all of the peripheral stuff, like the plot, space battles, etc. But I don't know that anyone could really capture what made B5 so great, which is even beyond the individual characters, as good as they are: there's an almost ineffable heart or spirit of the show that is truly its best quality. Yeah, I feel like one of B5s biggest strengths is how consistent it feels in a million little ways. The fact one person wrote more than 80% of the scripts shows, but more than that it's slow. There are payoffs that take years and that just wouldn't fly today.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:57
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Yeah, I feel like one of B5s biggest strengths is how consistent it feels in a million little ways. The fact one person wrote more than 80% of the scripts shows, but more than that it's slow. There are payoffs that take years and that just wouldn't fly today. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?
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Jul 13, 2017 18:00
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Sadly I don't think a modern space opera would fly today. I think part of the success of B5 was that it was always an underdog, I remember it barely got season 3, and season 5 only happened because of TNT (for better or worse). It was ahead of it's time using CGI because it was low budget. The low budget also contributed to it having a more relatable feel, in that it does look like a product of the early 90's, right down to the Zima neon. Being a nerd back then was a scarlet letter if you were in middle or high school, you never let on that you watching Star Trek, SeaQuest, or Babylon 5 because that's not what the cool kids did. I'm sure that more people were watching it than openly admitted, but unless you were the mal-adjusted kids that were fine being known as dorks, you only had one or two people that you could even mention it to, in secret. Now with nerds being in fashion, overarching plots, and higher budgets, a new space serial would be written off as just a rip-off of Star Trek, or Star Wars, or even B5. And lets face it, B5 has some big shoes to fill due to the alchemy of what it was, and when it was.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:15
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Has no one in this thread seen The Expanse? Because it's hitting some of the big space opera with politics hits that B5 is known for, just no aliens.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:24
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Burning_Monk posted:Has no one in this thread seen The Expanse? Because it's hitting some of the big space opera with politics hits that B5 is known for, just no aliens. I don't have cable?
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Jul 13, 2017 18:31
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Iron Crowned posted:I don't have cable? 
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Jul 13, 2017 18:58
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Burning_Monk posted:Has no one in this thread seen The Expanse? Because it's hitting some of the big space opera with politics hits that B5 is known for, just no aliens. Yeah, The Expanse is pretty great. Dark Matter turned out to be surprisingly good too. Eyud fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 19:06
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You guys are really missing some seriously good hardcore Sci-Fi. Space battles using newtonian physics, political intrigue with numerous factions, it's really what you want if you crave even a little bit of what B5 did. If you can't watch the tv series for whatever reason, it's a book series, so you could always go to your local library! Check out Leviathan Wakes. Eyud posted:Yeah, The Expanse is pretty great. Dark Matter is surprisingly good too. I like some of Dark Matter. It is surprisingly good, I'll agree but only because I went in with low expectations. It's definitely got a "made by the people who brought you Stargate SG1" feel but the characters are good and while the plot can be hit or miss the acting is pretty good all around. Burning_Monk fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 19:07
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Iron Crowned posted:I don't have cable? Season 1 is free on Prime. Season 2 is still per-episode but is supposed to go free at some point. And yeah, it's really good.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:08
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Burning_Monk posted:You guys are really missing some seriously good hardcore Sci-Fi. Space battles using newtonian physics, political intrigue with numerous factions, it's really what you want if you crave even a little bit of what B5 did. Yep, I definitely wasn't expecting much when I started it and it was pretty goofy at first but I ended up liking it. A bit like Farscape in that way, but I love Farscape now.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:52
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Yeah, I feel like one of B5s biggest strengths is how consistent it feels in a million little ways. The fact one person wrote more than 80% of the scripts shows, but more than that it's slow. There are payoffs that take years and that just wouldn't fly today. I did a big rewatch of the show months ago, from the beginning through early season 5, and this was what stood out most to me too. the sheer interconnectedness of the work, all these threads laid as early as the pilot and gradually explored, tautened, and woven together by the end of season 4. it was only after i got to the last season, the Interstellar Alliance presidency and all that, that i lost that feeling. i think the show should have ended with Deconstruction of Falling Stars as the final episode of season 4, and handled the Drakh and so on exclusively as tv movies and spinoffs if at all
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Jul 14, 2017 23:42
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The facet of Babylon 5 that wouldn't fly today is that at heart it's a really sappy show.
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Jul 15, 2017 00:02
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I think the biggest thing to me about Babylon 5 is just how big and real the space feels, like it's more than just a sequence of sound stages. I've been watching Deep Space 9 recently, and even though there are many parallels and two small business owners are main characters, DS9 never really feels anywhere near as much of a lived-in space as Babylon 5. It's like they took all the money a normal sci-fi show sunk into every planet of the day and put it back into the main set. And the world feels so consistent in comparison, you're never left wondering where things fit in with the station's economy or hierarchy because it's all just a big place where a lot of people live and do business. None of the awkward messing around with the fact that Star Trek's premise is a post-scarcity society but all interesting plots are driven by scarcity in one way or another, or the question of where the Federation's communistic no-currency economy, the Ferengi standardized-yet-non-specific measures of sci fi metal currency economy, and the ???? Bajoran economy hook together. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The facet of Babylon 5 that wouldn't fly today is that at heart it's a really sappy show. That's probably true, especially with the slow start and the lack of drama or action in the beginning, but that all was still necessary to set the bedrock for the rest of the story. Londo's descent and redemption and G'kar's ascent and revelation wouldn't have worked at all if their interactions had high stakes from the beginning. Shows these days really try to amp up the drama and action with a hefty side of sex appeal, but what I'm always eager for is some well-done comedy. G'kar and Londo's sniping at eachother is what pulled me in to begin with.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:08
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think the biggest thing to me about Babylon 5 is just how big and real the space feels, like it's more than just a sequence of sound stages. I've been watching Deep Space 9 recently, and even though there are many parallels and two small business owners are main characters, DS9 never really feels anywhere near as much of a lived-in space as Babylon 5. It's like they took all the money a normal sci-fi show sunk into every planet of the day and put it back into the main set. This was my favorite part of going back through the series, after a few episodes of the first season i felt like a regular on the station, familiar with its patterns and people, ready for whatever wildness Sinclair was about to dredge up i can't think of a TV show other than maybe Cheers that's managed to impart that feeling
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Jul 15, 2017 01:37
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It helps that they had that small regular cast of extras who would also often be playing the same roles.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:43
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SlothfulCobra posted:and the ???? Bajoran economy hook together. terrorist cell PTSD
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Jul 15, 2017 04:26
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Just finished S4E3 and 
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Jul 15, 2017 05:52
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Just finished S4E3 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xqplSYqX0
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Jul 15, 2017 09:19
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Just finished S4E3 and You ain't seen nothing yet.
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Jul 15, 2017 10:35
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Boy am I glad that I don't have to wait between the s3 finale and starting s4. Edit: Ha, I love that they show Vir's little wave in the opening now. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 18:49
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thexerox123 posted:Boy am I glad that I don't have to wait between the s3 finale and starting s4. The original air dates for B5 were super weird, I remember War without End being the big season break, and S4 starting almost directly after Z'ha'dum.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:53
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hope and vaseline posted:The original air dates for B5 were super weird, I remember War without End being the big season break, and S4 starting almost directly after Z'ha'dum. Oh, that's actually a much better point for a break!
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Jul 15, 2017 19:04
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http://epguides.com/Babylon5/ It's really weird. Season 1 up to late Season 2 (Confessions and Lamentations) ran almost uninterrupted with a few 1/2-month breaks. This continues to War Without End, until Intersections in Real Time and a big break after Deconstruction when they switched networks.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:27
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hope and vaseline posted:http://epguides.com/Babylon5/ Yeah, I remember at the time the networks, from Season 2 onward, decided to keep the last 4-5 episodes of the season, and run them as a lead-in into the new season. Apparently it was to give them a "head start" over other networks, I guess with airing new episodes before everyone else starts. I don't really get American TV, but that's how I understood it at the time. Which meant the final 4 episodes of Season 2 actually got their world premier in the UK. I think the same was true of Seasons 3 and 4, but I'm not 100% sure I remember right. With Season 5, what with it being the ending, I suppose, they weren't allowed to do that. So in the UK season 5 ended with "Movements of Fire and Shadow" I think, and then after a long break the final 5 were aired on Sunday morning as part of some kids morning show that was on at the time. I remember the mildly bewildered looks of the presenters as each episode ended (presumably having seen the final minute or two), and them giving an generic "wow, how exciting, more from Babylon 5 next week" comment. Since season 5 had finally started to ramp up, it kind of killed it a bit for me having that long break and then randomly emerging in the middle of some other show like that. "Sleeping in Light" was still amazing, though.
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Jul 16, 2017 11:45
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Got to love when a network does poo poo like moving a show to different time slots every couple of weeks and show episodes in random order and then cancel it because welp nobody's watching it for some reason who knew!
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Jul 16, 2017 12:32
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Grand Fromage posted:Got to love when a network does poo poo like moving a show to different time slots every couple of weeks and show episodes in random order and then cancel it because welp nobody's watching it for some reason who knew! That's generally exactly why they do it. We don't like this show, but we can't just arbitrarily pull the plug so now it's on at 3am on a Sunday morning and we won't tell anyone. And we rolled a die to decide what order the episodes of your highly-sequential show is aired in. Oh, no-one's watching? Shame your ratings have taken a massive dive  .
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Jul 16, 2017 12:51
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Dirty posted:Yeah, I remember at the time the networks, from Season 2 onward, decided to keep the last 4-5 episodes of the season, and run them as a lead-in into the new season. Apparently it was to give them a "head start" over other networks, I guess with airing new episodes before everyone else starts. I don't really get American TV, but that's how I understood it at the time. I just looked up the UK airdates, and there was a four month gap between "Movements" and those last five episodes, which aired the week after Christmas 1998. Sleeping In Light went out on New Years Day(that ties in with my memory of being at my grandparents for the holidays when it was on). This was apparently due to TNT being dicks about the distribution rights, which meant Channel 4 was not allowed to run the episodes before their US broadcast as they had done previously. They did show the final five again in a late night slot, which was supposed to lead into a complete rerun of the whole series. The problem was they'd burned through their repeat rights for Season 4 and didn't want to pay for it again, so it ended abruptly at Za'ha'dum. I remember anxiously checking the TV schedules every week to see when it was coming back, but it never did  Of course, if we'd had the Sci-Fi Channel we could've seen it twice a week forever, but we...didn't.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:06
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TNT marketed B5 reaaally hard in the beginning of the season (iirc they did a full daily schedule marathon of seasons 1-4 in the s4/s5 gap), and it seemed like there were barely any ads at the end of the run. In the Beginning was a pretty great way to kick off the TNT transition also.
hope and vaseline fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 13:13
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Dirty posted:Yeah, I remember at the time the networks, from Season 2 onward, decided to keep the last 4-5 episodes of the season, and run them as a lead-in into the new season. Apparently it was to give them a "head start" over other networks, I guess with airing new episodes before everyone else starts. I don't really get American TV, but that's how I understood it at the time. Channel 4 were always as supportive as they could be of B5, airing it in a prime slot and treating it the way most networks would treat Trek. As a result they got at least one intentional namedrop a season - "Commander, message coming in on Channel 4" - so they could if they wished use a clip from the show to advertise their screenings.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:20
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Jedit posted:Channel 4 were always as supportive as they could be of B5, airing it in a prime slot and treating it the way most networks would treat Trek. Indeed, it got relatively good treatment from Channel 4, and to their credit they did air the whole drat thing. Without Channel 4, I suspect we'd never have seen it in the UK.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:39
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I tried watching Alias when it started showing in the UK, except I was living in Wales at the time and S4C (Welsh-language version of Channel 4) made it unaffordable. Unaffordable in the sense that they'd change the time (and sometimes day) it aired at, from anywhere between 22:30 and 01:30. Meaning that the only way you'd know when to turn your TV on would be to buy a copy of the TV listings... which I couldn't afford as a student. But you can bet your favourite sheep's arse that Pobol y Cwm was on at the same loving time every day.
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Jul 17, 2017 00:24
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I just finished S4E5. I think Vir and Londo discussing Vir's pain after killing Cartiagia is my favorite scene in the series so far. This is so loving good. Whenever I think this show has set a new benchmark for itself it goes and blows itself away again. E: S4E6 THE WAVE. It was PERFECT. E2: GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY The Unlife Aquatic fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 04:36
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Just realized there was a Babylon 5 podcast. One of the first episodes is an interview with Stephen Furst. 
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Jul 25, 2017 17:06
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Bubbacub posted:Just realized there was a Babylon 5 podcast. One of the first episodes is an interview with Stephen Furst. Can you share a link, please?
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