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Does anybody know if there are going to be 13.3" laptops coming with dGPUs? I was very fond of my Sony Viao Z1 which had a GT330m (a neutered one), but it could play Tribes: Ascend and basically any Unreal 2.5 / 3 game well enough at 900 / 720p. All I'm seeing for dGPUs in that size class is the 940m. Will the 1040 be making an appearance in future laptops in this size class? And if so, will it just end up being a rebranded Maxwell or will it actually be a Pascal chip? Edit: Hmm, my nostalgia must be making my memory fuzzy. I remember the Z1 being this fantastically portable yet powerful device. I mean, I went backpacking for 2 years and that thing followed me every step of the way. But I just looked up its footprint compared to a more modern compact machine, the 14" Aorus X3, and I was astonished: Sony Vaio Z1 13": 12.4 x 8.3 x 1.3 in (GT330M) Aorus X3 14": 12.87 x 10.37 x 0.9 in (GTX 1060) Xiaomi Air 13": 12.19 x 8.3 x 0.58 in (940MX) Aero 15": 14.02 x 9.84 x 0.75 in (GTX 1060) The Aorus X3 is pretty underrated when it comes to ~*~*THIN BEZELS*~*~, really. The sides are pretty slim, though it gets that big depth from its hinge-forward baby-got-back design. Edit 2: It's actually kind of insane they managed to cram an ODD into the Z1, though, and it wasn't even the thin type with only a slot, it ejected a tray out. It also had dual mSATA SSDs in raid 0 but no 2.5" drive. Edit 3: Starting to wonder if I should've dropped the couple hundred more for the X3 despite it's noisier and hotter sound profile, as the Aero 15, despite its thin bezels and small-for-a-15" footprint, is decidedly less easily portable than I thought it would be (public transport stalwart here, bus+train or boat+train every day). No, don't do this. Don't start second-guessing... not like this. Not like this... *pulls skulljack* Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 17:27
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Does anybody know if there are going to be 13.3" laptops coming with dGPUs? I was very fond of my Sony Viao Z1 which had a GT330m (a neutered one), but it could play Tribes: Ascend and basically any Unreal 2.5 / 3 game well enough at 900 / 720p. Maybe, sorta, and yes. The successor to the 940M is the MX150, which is effectively a 1030 2GB, and is thus full Pascal. It's started to slowly hit laptop lineups over the last few weeks. They claim a 33% improvement over the 940MX, as well as power improvements. 1050's already exist in laptops, and no idea on whether a legit 1040 will ever be slotted in somewhere. The Aorus X3 is, indeed, pretty damned nice. Its biggest drawback is the rather high price for it--but then again, you're gonna pay a pretty penny for a sub-1" ultra-light laptop that still stuffs a 1060 in there.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:24
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I've the Aorus x5, the x3's older and hotter sister with a 1070, gsync, and accordingly no optimus. It's a really great system and you can feel the build quality. If I were choosing a 1060 laptop, it'd be a real tough choice between it and the Aero 14/15.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:26
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Cat Army 
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Razer, MSI, and Alienware also make 13" laptops with 1060s.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:29
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Ynglaur posted:Razer, MSI, and Alienware also make 13" laptops with 1060s. Only the Alienware 13 is a 13.3"-screen laptop, but it's such a bulky machine it sits in a similar body size to the 14" options, which are the Razer Blade, Aero 14, and MSI GS43VR. In fact, the Aero 15 is only a little larger than the Razer Blade despite the 1.6" bigger screen because of the Razer's enormous bezels. If Gigabyte had done their slim bezel thing with the Aero 14, then that'd probably be The One. Also the GS43VR does have quite a well-known design 'issue' where they run a heatpipe over a bare PCH chip, as well as the left side ports, and the left side ports especially get hot to the touch. It's probably the kind of design choice which won't show whether or not that's harmful until a year to two years after purchase, I'd imagine. The Iron Rose posted:I've the Aorus x5, the x3's older and hotter sister with a 1070, gsync, and accordingly no optimus. It's a really great system and you can feel the build quality. If I were choosing a 1060 laptop, it'd be a real tough choice between it and the Aero 14/15. For sure, and I considered it a great deal before going for the Aero 15. I liked the look of the thin bezels and a colleague recently got a 15" laptop to replace her 13" one and I was convinced I'd want the bigger screen, coming from a Surface Pro 2. DrDork posted:Maybe, sorta, and yes. Totally missed hearing any news about the MX150. 33% faster than the 940MX puts it at what? 960m territory? That still isn't quite good enough for modern 1080p gaming but if they stuff that into smaller 13" devices, it'd be pretty good performance.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:48
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Fry's has an MSI Stealth Pro with a 1060 and a 6th gen i7 for $1249. This is the version with the 1080p screen and the Intel wireless card. It seems not terrible, and seeing as my work requires me to travel periodically I'm thinking about picking it up. It seems like it's pretty decent and the tradeoff is mostly in the battery department since the 1060 is on all the time instead of switching when needed, so best case scenario is like 2 hours untethered. That's not generally a big deal, only thing I'm wondering is if it has a gigantic power brick which would be a pain in the rear end. Right now I have a Thinkpad T460s which I've been less than pleased with the build quality of. The thing flexes very easily, so much so that if I have RAM in the bottom slot and pick the thing up with anything other than a careful 2 handed even pull the thing will instantly either hard lock or bluescreen. Removing the memory stick eliminates the behavior completely. If anyone's got any experience with MSI Stealth Pros or is aware of something better in the same price range, let me know.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:13
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H2SO4 posted:Fry's has an MSI Stealth Pro with a 1060 and a 6th gen i7 for $1249. This is the version with the 1080p screen and the Intel wireless card. It seems not terrible, and seeing as my work requires me to travel periodically I'm thinking about picking it up. It seems like it's pretty decent and the tradeoff is mostly in the battery department since the 1060 is on all the time instead of switching when needed, so best case scenario is like 2 hours untethered. That's not generally a big deal, only thing I'm wondering is if it has a gigantic power brick which would be a pain in the rear end. Is there some reason you're thinking of going for that instead of the Acer Helios for $200 cheaper (plus a newer CPU) and no rebate to dick around with? I mean I'm sure that MSI's fine, I just wouldn't pay extra for it when something significantly cheaper with slightly better specs is available. Also the description is wrong at the beginning, it talks about the 17" GS73, a different model.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:23
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Atomizer posted:Is there some reason you're thinking of going for that instead of the Acer Helios for $200 cheaper (plus a newer CPU) and no rebate to dick around with? I Not at all, that's exactly why I posted. That Helios looks pretty sweet, thanks for the heads up. Only thing I'm wondering about is the keyboard, I'm a little worried about the tenkey pad that seems shoved in on the side. I could always return it if it doesn't fit well I suppose. Thanks!
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Jul 16, 2017 05:40
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H2SO4 posted:Not at all, that's exactly why I posted. That Helios looks pretty sweet, thanks for the heads up. Only thing I'm wondering about is the keyboard, I'm a little worried about the tenkey pad that seems shoved in on the side. I could always return it if it doesn't fit well I suppose. Thanks! The numpad thing is kinda representative of that laptop as a whole: there's a lot of stuff crammed in there for the price so there are compromises but it's still a good deal.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:50
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H2SO4 posted:
That ain't normal, get them to repair it.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:46
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Anyone have experience with the Huawei Matebook? Looks like it'd make a nice cheap thin and light Ubuntu machine. https://jcs.org/2017/07/14/matebook
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Jul 16, 2017 17:40
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Trip report: Wife loves surface laptop
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Jul 16, 2017 18:33
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What the heck thunderbolt to hdmi adapter should I buy? I have a Lenovo T450S but it probably doesn't matter. There are a million with all kinds of mixed reviews. (1) I don't give a hoot about 4k (2) It's mostly for putting stuff onto a TV probably (3) I would still pay a premium for the active adapters if the adapter itself is better quality
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Jul 16, 2017 19:16
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Khorne posted:What the heck thunderbolt to hdmi adapter should I buy? I have a Lenovo T450S but it probably doesn't matter. There are a million with all kinds of mixed reviews. You don't need an active adapter for 1080p at 60hz. Your typical 10 dollar amazon special should work just fine as long as you're not going over 1920x1200@60.
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Jul 16, 2017 20:09
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent laptop that can run games like The Sims 4 well? I know squat about laptops. The GF is starting to travel a lot for work and staying out of town for months on end and we are looking into getting her a laptop so she can play the few games she plays. Budget: 500-700
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Jul 17, 2017 00:05
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Khorne posted:What the heck thunderbolt to hdmi adapter should I buy? I have a Lenovo T450S but it probably doesn't matter. There are a million with all kinds of mixed reviews. I have a $10 one from Amazon and it pushes 2560x1440 just fine from a T450. And I think it's just MiniDP, not TB
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Jul 17, 2017 01:52
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TheUnforgiven posted:Does anyone have any recommendations for a decent laptop that can run games like The Sims 4 well? I know squat about laptops. The GF is starting to travel a lot for work and staying out of town for months on end and we are looking into getting her a laptop so she can play the few games she plays. Something like this would be fine in that price range.
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Jul 17, 2017 09:18
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I'd like to find a smallish (13-14 ") Windows laptop, preferably pretty light and thin, mainly for work and programming but with very occasional gaming. Portability (size and weight and toughness especially; battery life not as much) are important for me. My gaming needs are pretty basic: I'd like to be able to play MGS-5 and X-COM 2 on low quality settings. I don't game much anymore but still like to play some favorites now and then. I don't know much about graphics cards these days, but for example the 940MX in Atomizer's post above this one seems to work well enough for both games according to the links i linked. Budget: as cheap as possible given what I've said. I'd prefer something in the $600-800 range, but if that's impossible I'd consider higher. Like I said, form factor and difficult-to-breakness are important to me. Thanks for any help 
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Jul 17, 2017 19:40
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Atomizer posted:Something like this would be fine in that price range. Is there a laptop with similar specs but no GPU? Trying to find a good fit for a friend who needs a new laptop for office work. e: oh it's just a different model on the amazon site. ok edit2: no, those are different CPUs, but still has a GPU. hmm Jinnigan fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 20:08
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Jinnigan posted:Is there a laptop with similar specs but no GPU? Trying to find a good fit for a friend who needs a new laptop for office work. There isn't any disadvantage to just buying the one with the GPU and never using it.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:09
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alnilam posted:I'd like to find a smallish (13-14 ") Windows laptop, preferably pretty light and thin, mainly for work and programming but with very occasional gaming. Portability (size and weight and toughness especially; battery life not as much) are important for me. Display size largely correlates to portability (i.e. size & weight) but inversely correlates to durability, generally. Likewise, performance increases with price. You can get something durable AND with a smaller display, but expensive and not capable of gaming (in addition to being bulky): see the Panasonic Toughbook. You can get a modestly-sized Thinkpad, but I don't see one with a dGPU and recent ones can be fairly expensive. You CAN get something smaller, gaming-capable, and reasonably-priced: the Xiaomi Air 13 has a 940MX and a 13" display for around $800. There's going to be an upgraded version with the 150MX (1030) but it's going to be more expensive. There are cheaper Acer/Lenovo laptops with the 940MX but they're bigger. The Xiaomi is quite portable, and seems durable (it has a metal chassis.) I'd recommend it for your situation, but keep in mind you're probably going to want to install your own version of Windows 10. Generally, at this point if you want to focus on gaming-capable systems, if you want better performance you're going to spend more and probably get a larger system, and also if you want to spend less you'll end up with a bigger 15" laptop anyway. Jinnigan posted:Is there a laptop with similar specs but no GPU? Trying to find a good fit for a friend who needs a new laptop for office work. Yes there is! Acer makes tons and tons of variants of each model. This is a dGPU-less version of the previously-linked E15. I actually recommend this as my baseline Windows laptop, because it's got a ton of features for a $350 brand-new Windows device, including a FHD display and backlit keyboard. They're both of middling quality, but you're not going to find anything better near that price, especially new. The only thing I recommend is spending ~$50 or so for an m.2 SATA 128 GB SSD and ~$25 for another 4 GB of DDR4 RAM; they're both easily upgradeable underneath a single small panel and 3 screws on the bottom. dissss posted:There isn't any disadvantage to just buying the one with the GPU and never using it. There is, in terms of expense at least. The Acer E15 that I talk about goes from $350 for the iGPU one to a minimum of $450-500 (on sale) for the 940MX models, and those are more commonly found at $500-600 and up, for similar specs to the cheapest version.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:32
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Looking for a recommendation! No Apple, please. I don't particularly care about screen size, weight, or battery life, but I do care about screen quality and good product design. The more I look, the more interested I become in a 2-in-1. What I'm Gonna Be Doing: This laptop will often serve as a media center, where I'll plug it into my receiver and TV and watch something either local or streamed via Netflix or samba share. So USB-C or Mini-DisplayPort is required, as is a 3.5mm headphone jack. But I'm interested in a few additional bells and whistles, too. I'm a designer, so it should be capable of handling middling loads in Photoshop, and I really want to get a laptop with a touchscreen and pen for sketching. I am also interested in audio production, but have no real requirements there. What I'm Not Gonna Be Doing: Gaming. I've got a good Windows 10 rig and a Steam Link so I should be okay there. Budget: Cheaper = better, but I'm open to splurging on a Surface Laptop because that poo poo looks fine. So far, Surface Laptop has been a front-runner, but it just feels too pricey for what I want. Heck, I'm even open to Chrome OS (Chromebook Pro?) because I'm pretty deep in the Google ecosystem already. f#a# fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 23:51
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f#a# posted:Looking for a recommendation! No Apple, please. I don't particularly care about screen size, weight, or battery life, but I do care about screen quality and good product design. The more I look, the more interested I become in a 2-in-1. Pretty much everything has A/V outputs, so that part is covered but have you considered a Chromecast/Roku/Fire/etc. for your streaming needs? You can even have a Plex Media Server on your desktop working with that. It's just that hooking up a laptop directly and playing something over the network manually with VLC or whatever is probably the least elegant solution. Anyways, if you want a nice Windows laptop the Dell XPS (regular/convertible) and Lenovo X1 Carbon/Yoga are common choices. There are some nice Chromebooks as well: Samsung Pro, Asus Flip C302, HP 13.
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Jul 18, 2017 04:02
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f#a# posted:Looking for a recommendation! No Apple, please. I don't particularly care about screen size, weight, or battery life, but I do care about screen quality and good product design. The more I look, the more interested I become in a 2-in-1. Might be worth a look at this, especially if you're into the pens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeMfCa9xOic
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Jul 18, 2017 04:33
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Atomizer posted:Display size largely correlates to portability (i.e. size & weight) but inversely correlates to durability, generally. Likewise, performance increases with price. You can get something durable AND with a smaller display, but expensive and not capable of gaming (in addition to being bulky): see the Panasonic Toughbook. You can get a modestly-sized Thinkpad, but I don't see one with a dGPU and recent ones can be fairly expensive. Thanks. I'm considering getting a Lenovo x270 with onboard 520 or 620, which I guess should run x-com 2 with a little stutter but playable (16-20 fps). Or, should I wait for the HP Envy 13 to ship with dGPU later this year? https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Envy-13-2017-Ultrabook-coming-with-Nvidia-MX150-graphics.225132.0.html Also considering that Xiaomi Air 13 but I'm slightly worried about such a new maker and product having untested reliability, is that a reasonable concern?
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Jul 18, 2017 15:41
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An onboard iGPU will not run xcom2 at any playable frame rates. I remember my last laptop with a 960m (massively better than a 520/620) and I was usually getting between 20-30 FPS at the lowest settings at 1080p, and it didn't improve much when I stepped down the resolution. And 16-20 FPS is a miserable goddamn experience too. Unfortunately, while Xcom: EW was just fine playing on integrated cards, its sequel really isn't, and requires an inordinate amount of horsepower. If you try and game on it with an iGPU, I'd brace yourself for disappointment.
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Jul 18, 2017 18:26
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My old Samsung I got for school 7 years ago is finally starting to fall apart and I'm looking for some advice on getting a new laptop. What I want: I still do most of my TV/Movie/Sports watching on my laptop so a good screen would be nice. I'm content with playing the more intensive games on my ps4 but it would be nice the have a laptop that could handle PC only/preferred games (xcom2, civ6, paradox games, tyranny, total war etc) for the next few years. It will mostly be sitting on my desk so size and weight are less of an issue. What I don't really need: AAA max fps ultra settings gaming. I doubt ill be using Photoshop or any media based stuff either. Budget: 900-1300 cad  The 3 so far I've found that seem to fit the bill. http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...b/10573742.aspx https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834154594&ignorebbr=1 https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834234473&ignorebbr=1 <- this one looks promising but I can't find any reviews on it
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Jul 18, 2017 20:53
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Government posted:My old Samsung I got for school 7 years ago is finally starting to fall apart and I'm looking for some advice on getting a new laptop. Either of the two Asus laptops are your best bet, just be sure to buy an SSD aftermarket to replace the mechanical spinning disk.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:21
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Got a $200 giftcard for Amazon for my birthday. Can't figure out what to use it on. Halfway considering the idea of using it for a laptop. I am going back to college in January and will need a laptop. Won't need it for gaming. Just something to work on (computer science). $200-$300 buy me something decent now for that or should I wait for prices to drop in 6 months?
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Jul 19, 2017 00:02
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89 posted:Got a $200 giftcard for Amazon for my birthday. Can't figure out what to use it on. I don't think there are any laptops on Amazon worth owning for that price, but you can probably find a used Thinkpad x230 or 240 for something around there. Great little linux dev machine as long as you don't care about the somewhat lovely display.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:42
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alnilam posted:Thanks. I'm considering getting a Lenovo x270 with onboard 520 or 620, which I guess should run x-com 2 with a little stutter but playable (16-20 fps). 20fps isn't really playable, 16fps absolutely is not. Film theaters might play at 24fps but they're also not displaying feedback from user input. 28 is about what you can use and not want to put your mouse through the display, 30-35 is downright pleasant, 40 or higher is where people begin describing things as "smooth" I would wait, or get one of the T470s with dgpu
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Jul 19, 2017 01:07
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't think there are any laptops on Amazon worth owning for that price, but you can probably find a used Thinkpad x230 or 240 for something around there. Great little linux dev machine as long as you don't care about the somewhat lovely display.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:02
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Government posted:My old Samsung I got for school 7 years ago is finally starting to fall apart and I'm looking for some advice on getting a new laptop. Hey fellow Canadian  I've also been on the lookout for laptops too on a similar budget, though with slightly more emphasis on games. I'm no laptop expert but I've been looking for a couple weeks and it looks like you'll want a 1050ti GPU and IPS screen (for better viewing angles). The 1050ti is supposed to be able to handle most modern games at native resolution on at least medium settings. I didn't care about RAM and SSD very much since they can be added in separately. Here are some of the options I've been considering: The Acer VX 15 on Amazon for $1179.99 looks like a good fit for your requirements. There's also a slightly cheaper version with less RAM and a 1050 GPU instead of 1050ti (apparently there's a 20-30% difference between the two GPUs). Reviews say the screen's colour reproduction isn't great, but I haven't seen a a gaming laptop with a better screen at that price point. If you use password FNDEPP on the Lenovo Friends EPP site, you can get discounts on their stuff. I've been looking at the Lenovo Legion Y520 for $968.75, but definitely check out other laptops on the site if you're interested in other discounts. From what I've heard, the battery life and cooling on the Y520 is worse than the VX 15 and while there is an IPS screen, it also has poor colour reproduction. It is $200 cheaper though and probably the most affordable 1050ti option out there with decent build quality and keyboard. There's also the Dell Inspiron 7567 but there's currently no IPS customization upgrade in Canada so it's probably not an option. The specs seem pretty solid otherwise and the build quality is supposed to be much better. EDIT: This is hearsay, but apparently there's going to be an IPS option next month or so? If it's true, I'd definitely consider picking this up. These are just the laptops I've found in a week or so of looking. Anyone more knowledgeable in this sort of thing is more than welcome to chime in! IncendiaC fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 02:57
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roomforthetuna posted:Agree with the Thinkpad recommendation, but you could get a Linux-capable chromebook in that price range too, if you find low weight and battery life more compelling that sturdiness. In my experience those things are great until you type "make" and then they slowly burn to death, but I haven't looked at them in a few years.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:20
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Re: iGPU and moderate gaming stuff Lots of games that run like crap on 1080p (e.g. 20fps) will net you something like 50% more FPS in 720/768p (e.g. stuttery 30fps). If you're a weirdo like me you can turn based game at the low resolution no problem, but it seems irresponsible to get a poo poo display just for crispness of barely acceptable gaming. The 14" Thinkpads can go to 1440p which means the 720p downscale is actually reasonable. When I think about it I dislike the size of the 14" Thinkpads, but luckily I don't think about it very much. edit: Tbh I'm kinda interested to see what the T470p can do with a 940m at 720p resolution. It will definitely be disappointing compared to my imaginary future T480p + low end Pascal GPU at 720p, but it'd still be really interesting to see what it could put out. double edit: If you wanna game this is what a T470p with a 940m can do at 720p reso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glS3xGyr0t8. The games are totally playable at the low resolution, and, tbh, you will barely notice it's 720p while you're gaming. anothergod fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 03:45
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alnilam posted:Thanks. I'm considering getting a Lenovo x270 with onboard 520 or 620, which I guess should run x-com 2 with a little stutter but playable (16-20 fps). So I'm not familiar with X-Com 2 but it sounds like it's pretty demanding. Even that Envy will probably struggle with it, and that's a lot of money for a ~1030 since for around the same price you can get 1050 Ti systems that are much more powerful. I have the Xiaomi Air 13; it's very nice, and I'm not worried about its reliability, but it's a very reasonable concern. You won't be able to get direct manufacturer support if anything goes wrong, so a Squaretrade warranty may be worth it. Government posted:My old Samsung I got for school 7 years ago is finally starting to fall apart and I'm looking for some advice on getting a new laptop. Avoid the 960m; it's underpowered at that price and the newer 10xx Pascal GPUs are much more powerful and power-efficient. I also don't like that the other two laptops are 1050 instead of the Ti version; it's worth bumping up to the latter for a modest increase in price. Any of the 1050 Ti 4 GB laptops (see IncendiaC's post) will be worth it in your price range, and this is an outstanding [1060 6 GB] laptop for the money, but I don't know what that converts to in Canadien funbux.  89 posted:Got a $200 giftcard for Amazon for my birthday. Can't figure out what to use it on. $350 new laptop with a FHD display and backlit keyboard. Add another 4 GB RAM and a 128 GB SSD as the boot drive (~$25 & $50 on eBay, used, respectively,) and you're good to go. anothergod posted:Re: iGPU and moderate gaming stuff https://www.techspot.com/article/1446-play-games-ultraportable-laptop/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMVZfVHaeXU The above recent article and related video are apropos.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:55
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Wow I like the idea of that HP Envy 13 with an MX150. Perfect for when you're on the road and just want to play a light or older game. I imagine it'd smash, say, the original Mass Effect's no problem at 768 or even 1080p. Good for a replay of Company of Heroes etc. I wish Notebookcheck had tested more old games as it's not really interesting or useful to me or anyone to see that the card runs Deux Ex: MD at like 20 fps in 1080p. No one is getting an MX150 with the expectation of playing that.
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Jul 19, 2017 04:13
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Something like that, yes. I would pay a pretty obscene amount of money for an XPS 13 with a dgpu (that MX150 will do fine)
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Jul 19, 2017 14:14
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Is there any reason to buy a 7th-gen Intel processor versus 6th if the speed difference doesn't matter? Comparing on Intel's site shows there's an added power saving technology in 7th - Its this an appreciable difference?
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Jul 19, 2017 15:23
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Nah, Kaby Lake is a tiny tiny improvement on Skylake. The only thing that you may care about is 4K netflix, as it requires the Kaby Lake decoder hardware.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:28
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