Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Apparently no one made a gif of the water splash at the end of the 3.whatever demo.

But I did find this!

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/casesummary.aspx

Good times from the previous thread.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:37

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:37

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

�what makes SC a �PC only game� by the way?

Is it their deliberately obtuse UI, even though there's nothing in the game to really demand such a UI?

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:37

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Tippis posted:

�what makes SC a �PC only game� by the way?

Is it their deliberately obtuse UI, even though there's nothing in the game to really demand such a UI?

It's what Chris said.
It'll be on consoles and Steam about 20 seconds after he realises the money to be made

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:39

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

It would never pass cert for a console

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:40

Percelus: Sep 9, 2012; My command, your wish is

http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/19/star-citizen-followers-react-to-server-capacity-star-system-count-news/

backers in the comment section are eating this poo poo sandwich and complimenting the chef, this site is great at never scrutinizing any project or bad game

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:43

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:43

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

big nipples big life posted:

It would never pass cert for a console

That would actually be the most sensible explanation of them all.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:43

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

kw0134 posted:

It's like fractal idiocy; you keep zooming in on different aspects and you find different ways the guy is wrong.

This. This is beauty.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:45

Ayn Marx: Dec 21, 2012

big nipples big life posted:

It would never pass cert for a console

Yeah, that. As a former QA monkey and having gone through that for a couple games the idea of testing Star Citizen for, say, Xbox TCR makes me want to die

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:45

Percelus: Sep 9, 2012; My command, your wish is

i'd like to imagine if they tried running star citizen on consoles, the moment 24 players tried to meet in the same area all of the hardware would burst into flames :magical:

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:47

ModernSociety: Jul 12, 2017

Beet Wagon posted:

In the future, please try and avoid no-text meme-posts if at all possible.

I often wonder how many of the SC defenders who religiously bash ED have actually tried it. It manages to achieve a large portion of what SC claims it will do, and caters to most of the professions that are touted as 'planned for SC release' (Drinks mixer extraordinare and landing pad janitor notwithstanding of course.)

It can't be because of the business model: Despite what they claim, the cosmetics on Frontier's store are in no way as cash-grabby as the hundreds of dreamships that are available on cribblets' site.
It can't be because of the pedigree behind the creators: Braben has a far older and less lovely history with space games.
It can't be because of the quality of released content so far: One has gameplay, the other doesn't.
It can't be the scientific accuracy or scale. SC is scaled down in most every way, in size and physical accuracy.

All that I'm left with is a sunk-cost fallacy and siege mentality - Sure that'll grab a few folk by the balls and make them defend the game religiously...but this many people? For this long?

If Sandi had been the world-class marketer that she claims to be then maybe I could see it also, but she's not. The advertising has been shoddy-at-best, pretty much from start to present.

There's just NOTHING going for it as far as I can see. Why are these droves of people still convinced that this hill is the one for them to die on? Just come play fun space games with the rest of us, and leave this mess to die.

ModernSociety fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:49

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Toblakai posted:

quote:
D_Smart posted:
I should know this because we ran through the same problem. We use SilverLining (and Triton for water) by http://sundog-soft.com/ software because it was cheaper than doing it from scratch. Then we had to integrate it into our custom engine. It hosed up everything. And we had to redo a number of our asset materials. And we had to go back in a mess with the scene lighting because at some times at night, it was so very dark. Done right, you end up with results like the LoD day/night shots.

Well, exactly this is the reason, Derek, why nobody has heard of you - instead developing revolutionary technology from scratch, like serializing variables and using macros in your c++ code, you're buying stuff, when it makes sense.

heh yeah. Know the hilarious part? Having done all that sort of work in my own legacy engines, in LoD I decided that since someone else (Sun-Dog) had decided that they were going to make middleware for it, it was cheaper to buy $1,500 middleware and spend time implementing it, than building it all from scratch in a new engine. In fact, the LoD engine is a potpourri of various middleware. Because if someone else has done it, why re-invent the loving wheel? Using middleware leaves you to do more important things like, you know, building a loving game.

quote:

BTW, on a more serious note - what was that about that there is water under cryengine levels? I've tried to google it, but I got only some tutorials how to make puddles in cryengine.

Oh as it was designed for fps games, they used (not sure if they still do in later iterations) to have a built-in height (below terrain) that the engine determines to be under a water plane. Yeah, it's hilarious AF.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:50

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Roberts solution will be to release their own SC console to gently caress over Sony and Microsoft.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:50

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

big nipples big life posted:

It would never pass cert for a console

You wouldn't believe the poo poo Sony lets onto the Vita now.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:52

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:54

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Colostomy Bag posted:

Roberts solution will be to release their own SC console to gently caress over Sony and Microsoft.

I hear there's a new ~~partner~~ console in town and its name is Atari :grin:

Edit: forgot a word

Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:56

notoriousman: Nov 18, 2007; I'M AWARE I'M
AN IDIOT

My favorite E:D critics are the ones with 800 hours sunk in and they regret every moment! This game is so shallow and lacking in content I dedicated an entire month's worth of time doing absolutely nothing!

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:56

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Jobbo_Fett posted:

I hear there's a new ~~partner~~ in town and its name is Atari

Seems fitting. Burying 50,000 jpegs in the desert.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:58

Viscous Soda: Apr 24, 2004

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Cryengine has a built-in water "level" that occupies the "bottom" of the map. Normally this isn't an issue because you just build your map on top of that, but CIG can't do that with a space game, which is why you'll sometimes see water splash on the visor of the player character when in FPS, because the game has determined the player is now underwater (entering/exiting, anyways) and plays the default effect built into the engine.

This was made even more hilarious when the TOTALLY FACTUAL AND NOT A JOKE worm caused the same effect to happen when it growled at you in the trailer for 3.whatever and then the camera crash zooms out into space...

Where it plays the water splash animation again.

I actually don't think that was a "space watertable" bug actually. IMO the demo got it's scripting messed up and started playing two instances of the "Sandworm shows up" scene. The liquid splatter was supposed to be from the sandworm spitting on you.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:59

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

SelenicMartian posted:

You wouldn't believe the poo poo Sony lets onto the Vita now.

Yeah it's way more lax now than it used to be (see: Life of Black Tiger) and MS even has early access garbage for the bone but I still think SC would fail cert miserably.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:00

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Gorf, you made the news for cherry-picking your FUD

http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/19/star-citizen-followers-react-to-server-capacity-star-system-count-news/

EDIT: My 5c

quote:

Hey @Bree,

<blockquote>an accurate (though cherrypicked) timeline of release claims and missed content deadlines</blockquote>

the timeline in the infographic wasn't "cherrypicked". I actually checked it when I first saw it. And it's 100% accurate, and based on actual facts and public record. What led you to believe that it was "cherrypicked", and what sources did you use to verify that?

<blockquote>will launch with 5 to 10 star systems, a reduction in scope from original launch plans</blockquote>

I don't believe that CIG "confirmed" to GameStar that the game would be launching with 5 - 10 systems. For one thing, GameStar never actually claimed that info came from their review. It appears to be in line with previous statements by Chris in which he had said that the game may not be launching with all 100 systems. I <a href="http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5543" rel="nofollow">documented this</a> in my write-up from last week, complete with publicly sourced statements from Chris.

I may be wrong, but seeing as CIG continues to remain mum on this, leaving backers to rely on unofficial channels and media for a game they poured over $155M into, we'll never know.

The more important issue here is that nobody knows what "launch" means, as the game is <a href="https://starcitizentracker.github.io/" rel="nofollow">nowhere near</a> completion to even call it finished. If they are indeed referring to launching as an MVP, then backers are about to have something bigger to worry about because, for all intent and purposes, the game is in Early Access. And you don't go from EA to launch, unless you are either dumping the project, or doing an MVP soft launch. In the case of Star Citizen, seeing as it is still selling for $45, there is NO incentive to prematurely "launch" it before completing what was promised (to $65M in Nov 2014), unless there is an impending crisis or liability issue not yet made public.

<blockquote>The hubbub is over a server capacity-related quote</blockquote>

The "24 clients on a server" issue, isn't new. GameStar never said it was. It's now being used as a highlight for manufactured outrage and spreading FUD. The game client and server has always supported 24 clients in an instance. Except that theoretical limit only works well in ArcCorp (aka Social Module) because anything above 8 clients, in any other multiplayer module, is horrid and the server instance croaks.

<blockquote>It probably won�t surprise you � no MMO and few video games hit their marks, transparently or otherwise � but it�s worth consideration.</blockquote>

That's not the case, and a few State and Fed agencies would agree with me on that.

Nobody cares about what some other game promised. What backers care about is that they forked over $155M for a specific set of promises in <em>this</em> game. According to the rule of law, as it pertains to crowd-funding, if you make promises, you have to keep them. The FTC has an entire paper - right now - on its website about that. Several State AGs have taken action against various crowd-funded projects on this basis alone.

If any company funds their own game, they can do what they like. But you're not going to crowd-fund for a Gold box, deliver a Brass box, and call it delivered. That's a huge liability that is the same as ordering a GX1080 video card on Amazon, and they send you a GTX 980. They either exchange or refund the purchase. What the backers do in that regard, is up to them, but no, it's not the norm, is not "worth consideration", and yours is a false equivalency. If any other company was pulling a stunt like this, you would be writing tomes (I've seen you do just that) about it. You're better than this, so I am hoping that you're not implying that CIG can go ahead and deliver what the hell they want, regardless of promises, and it's OK.

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:01

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

ModernSociety posted:

All that I'm left with is a sunk-cost fallacy and siege mentality - Sure that'll grab a few folk by the balls and make them defend the game religiously...but this many people? For this long?

How long have you been playing computer games? Siege and sunk-cost go all the way back to the 8-bit revolution and having your parents pick from the Spectrum, Vic20, C64, Dragon or Oric. You went to the mat for your platform because it was what you had. The sunk-cost is the important bit. Without that, people get a bit more dismissive; this is part of the whole cycle of something going through the hype-release-normaliation model that has a previously beloved game suddenly becoming 'poo poo'.

There's a whole psychological subset of 'gaming ownership' that someone really needs to look into, because there's a fuckton of money there, as evidenced by this whole thing.

Latin Pheonix posted:

I still don't get it though, how are the supporters not furious that CR broke the news to a game mag before them!?!?

The supporters that you're seeing are the ones vested and engaged. There are a bunch that are vested, yet not engaged. Most people here are not-vested and engaged. Eventually the engaged ones start to bleed over into the unengaged, and after an amount of that, you get traction.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Because this is the 3rd time this happens, so they are used to it.

And this. The 'abusive relationship' model is one where you lose something by moving away from the relationship as well as the abuse. The abuser usually over-inflates the value of the ongoing relationship and the loss of the relationship to the abused, indicating that it's 'all or nothing'. Once the press starts getting negative, everyone will get a geegaw.

D_Smart posted:

- Day and night cycle. They can do it in the editor as they have shown, because they are manipulating the light source manually. Doing that dynamically in the client is completely different ball game.

Okay, now _thats_ fraud. They're using impossible capability to sell things.

D_Smart posted:

This is what happens when you give $155M to some rear end-clown. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson can't get a game crowd-funded

Because it was scammy as gently caress and I doubt NDT really understood the pitch.

SelenicMartian posted:

You wouldn't believe the poo poo Sony lets onto the Vita now.

It's more about where the money goes and who pays Sony, but nobody would continually download 40Gb on the consoles.

It's not the size (Witcher 3 knocks on 60Gb), but the fact that a new patch is a new download.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:03

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

I hear there's a new ~~partner~~ console in town and its name is Atari

Atari has gone downhill since the 1040ST

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:03

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Viscous Soda posted:

I actually don't think that was a "space watertable" bug actually. IMO the demo got it's scripting messed up and started playing two instances of the "Sandworm shows up" scene. The liquid splatter was supposed to be from the sandworm spitting on you.

Oh yeah, maybe it was that. Still, there exists the invisible water level that can be cross and adds the cryengine splash to the visor.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:03

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Percelus posted:

http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/19/star-citizen-followers-react-to-server-capacity-star-system-count-news/

backers in the comment section are eating this poo poo sandwich and complimenting the chef, this site is great at never scrutinizing any project or bad game

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:04

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

that pewpew guy is going to have a stroke, he is SO loving MAD ABOUT FUD all the time.

it is very, very lol

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:05

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Hav posted:

It's more about where the money goes and who pays Sony, but nobody would continually download 40Gb on the consoles.

It's not the size (Witcher 3 knocks on 60Gb), but the fact that a new patch is a new download.

It would take 3 days to DL to keep up with Sony's throttling.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:14

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

D_Smart posted:

Gorf, you made the news for cherry-picking your FUD

quote:

It�s also helped prompt overt Star Citizen detractors to promote an infographic with an accurate (though cherrypicked) timeline of release claims and missed content deadlines on /r/Games. It probably won�t surprise you � no MMO and few video games hit their marks, transparently or otherwise � but it�s worth consideration.

Backhanded compliment to be sure. I wonder what they'd prefer to see.

I worked with Bree Royce once. She's a level person.

Hav fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:17

Toblakai: Jul 11, 2017

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Cryengine has a built-in water "level" that occupies the "bottom" of the map. Normally this isn't an issue because you just build your map on top of that, but CIG can't do that with a space game, which is why you'll sometimes see water splash on the visor of the player character when in FPS, because the game has determined the player is now underwater (entering/exiting, anyways) and plays the default effect built into the engine.

This was made even more hilarious when the TOTALLY FACTUAL AND NOT A JOKE worm caused the same effect to happen when it growled at you in the trailer for 3.whatever and then the camera crash zooms out into space...

Where it plays the water splash animation again.

SelenicMartian posted:

Cryengine has a hardcoded water plane which triggers water splashes on the screen. CIG's poached Crytek staff escaped before telling anyone how to disable that.

Also, it took at least year but one of the backers on reddit noticed that when Gary Oldman opened his parping hole in that old speech trailer there were tiny bubbles coming out of him.

D_Smart posted:

Oh as it was designed for fps games, they used (not sure if they still do in later iterations) to have a built-in height (below terrain) that the engine determines to be under a water plane. Yeah, it's hilarious AF.

This is so loving weird that I don't even know what to say. Any idea why a FPS engine needs a hardcoded water plane below terrain?

D_Smart posted:

heh yeah. Know the hilarious part? Having done all that sort of work in my own legacy engines, in LoD I decided that since someone else (Sun-Dog) had decided that they were going to make middleware for it, it was cheaper to buy $1,500 middleware and spend time implementing it, than building it all from scratch in a new engine. In fact, the LoD engine is a potpourri of various middleware. Because if someone else has done it, why re-invent the loving wheel? Using middleware leaves you to do more important things like, you know, building a loving game.

Agreed. But not only they've reinvented the wheel, they've reinvented it square, refactored it x times and now the wheel is FUBAR. And if we are going to drag this analogy - this is the first gaming studio to reinvent the aerosol spray before reinventing the wheel (Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, anybody?).

Toblakai fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:22

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Toblakai posted:

This is loving weird that I don't even know what to say. Any idea why a FPS engine needs a hardcoded water plane below terrain?

So you can just slap down some terrain, put it at the right level, assign a water surface texture and go on with your business instead of getting bogged down with making all kinds of special water volumes.

You're making an FPS, after all, not a diving or flight or space simulator � those shortcuts are great.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:31

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Tippis posted:

So you can just slap down some terrain, put it at the right level, assign a water surface texture and go on with your business instead of getting bogged down with making all kinds of special water volumes.

You're making an FPS, after all, not a diving or flight or space simulator � those shortcuts are great.

Amazon does fairly good if pedantic documentation. The AWS stuff is literally autistic.

http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/userguide/lumberyard-intro.html

http://docs.cryengine.com/display/SDKDOC2/Level+Creation+Quick+Start

quote:

Step 2 - Terrain Building

Now that we've got our level created, we can notice two basic elements that are in the world, Ocean and Terrain.
The Ocean can be set at a specific height, by default it's at 16m (from the lowest point of the heightmap, which is 0m).
The Terrain also sets itself at a default height of 32m, this is a new change to CRYENGINE 3.6 and gives you quick access to new levels without having to modify terrain or the ocean first.

Hav fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:34

Percelus: Sep 9, 2012; My command, your wish is

i wonder what year it will be before backers actually get a mission with enemy npcs to kill

Percelus fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:36

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:37

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Mirificus posted:

Tier One *warlord*.

Nice use of the Chewbacca defense though.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:38

Bofast: Feb 21, 2011; Grimey Drawer

TheAgent posted:

I AM REDEEMED

If anything, you were too lenient.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:42

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Toblakai posted:

This is so loving weird that I don't even know what to say. Any idea why a FPS engine needs a hardcoded water plane below terrain?

Crysis is set on an island. It's very efficient if your can determine if anything is underwater by it being below a certain height.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:43

xanif: Nov 3, 2010; Beer: Who was your first kill, not counting old men?
Eonwe: One of the outlaws in the Brotherhood.
Seraph84: I was there that day. You were only a squire, sixteen years old.
Eonwe: You killed Friendly Tumour with a counter-post. Best move I ever saw.; Oven Wrangler

The hell is FUD?

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:44

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

xanif posted:

The hell is FUD?

Mexican meat-products company.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:46

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

xanif posted:

The hell is FUD?

That's Smart's new pet name. Stands for Fraudulent Usurper Derek. Some think it actually means Fake Unsuccessful Developer, but that was only adopted later.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:47

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:37

xanif: Nov 3, 2010; Beer: Who was your first kill, not counting old men?
Eonwe: One of the outlaws in the Brotherhood.
Seraph84: I was there that day. You were only a squire, sixteen years old.
Eonwe: You killed Friendly Tumour with a counter-post. Best move I ever saw.; Oven Wrangler

trucutru posted:

Mexican meat-products company.

thx

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:47

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