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I mean, UBW is very much a "middle" chapter. So characters like Rider, Kotomine, Sakura, Saber, and and to a lesser extent Berserker/Illya all have their "actual" character arcs in some of the other routes. Even Shirou is technically missing both the beginning and the finale of his meta-arc; the conclusion of his story at the end of Heaven's Feel in particular is of far more interest/worth noting when it comes to Zero for example.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:19
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poe meater posted:Sorry I meant there seems to be more stories to explore I guess. Fate zero felt more complete to me. I didnt play the games/novels though so I'm not sure. Oh, definitely. Rider, the Matous, Illya, Kotomine... all their stories get developed much further in Heaven's Feel (first of the film trilogy coming soon!). No joke: Sakura is a love interest and plays a strong role in Heaven's Feel, representing Shirou's precious mundane everyday life that he just takes for granted in other scenarios, but people unironically call it the Illya and Kotomine route. Saber gets fleshed out much more in the Fate route, where she's the focus character and love interest, but... I won't recommend Studio DEEN's adaptation. She's more interesting in UBW anyway, remaining a gallant knight who solves her personal issues by way of witnessing Shirou struggle with his (in Fate it's kind of the opposite). As to why she's not angry at the Emiya's, well, in the first place she wasn't angry at Kiritsugu for his betrayal. She blamed herself. The conclusion of the 4th War just deepened her guilt and determination to obtain the Grail. Upon learning that Shirou was Kiritsugu's son, and how different his description seemed to be from the man she remembered, she decided to keep quiet for his sake. If Shirou didn't know, then he didn't need to know his dad he admired so much was a ruthless killer.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:12
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The FNS Let's Play done an age ago loving ruled and it's a shame you get either the archived version (which is basically just a read-through of the thing) or the thread with commentary but no images.
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Jul 16, 2017 12:56
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The LP was a fun community experience (still the only LP I've ever followed/participated in all the way through), but other than just being an obviously easier/cheaper way to experience the VN it's not what I'd call a substitute to just sitting down and reading the actual thing yourself. Reading the LP means you're not reeeeeally getting the full experience when it comes to effects/BGM/voices, unless you're actually clicking on each music each time and the occasional video, assuming any of those still work. seorin's commentary and interjections also leave a little something to be desired IMO.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:30
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Nate RFB posted:The LP was a fun community experience (still the only LP I've ever followed/participated in all the way through), but other than just being an obviously easier/cheaper way to experience the VN it's not what I'd call a substitute to just sitting down and reading the actual thing yourself. Reading the LP means you're not reeeeeally getting the full experience when it comes to effects/BGM/voices, unless you're actually clicking on each music each time and the occasional video, assuming any of those still work. seorin's commentary and interjections also leave a little something to be desired IMO. It was fun but the constant goon virtue signaling about how wrong anime is even as they partake in anime, while amusing, is just plain distracting if you actually want to get engrossed in or discuss the work. Definitely not something I'd recommend to first timers even assuming the actual VN wasn't translated, which it is.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:42
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poe meater posted:Is unlimited blade works considered to be better than Fate zero? I found unlimited blade works to be kinda uneven and all over the place in tone. Maybe it was too short? As a show I consider UBW inferior to Fate:Zero, but (if you're referring to my earlier posts by any chance) the former had cooler fight scenes. edit: Oh wait, I was confusing my post in the Apocrypha thread with this thread Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 19:25
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Ytlaya posted:As a show I consider UBW inferior to Fate:Zero, but (if you're referring to my earlier posts by any chance) the former had cooler fight scenes. Early on, yeah (Saber versus Berserker was hella solid), but they really struggled keeping Gate of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works interesting.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:18
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Darth Walrus posted:Early on, yeah (Saber versus Berserker was hella solid), but they really struggled keeping Gate of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works interesting. Yeah; most of the more melee-oriented servant fights were really cool (like Archer vs Lancer and the aforementioned Saber vs Berserker), but the EMIYA vs Shirou fight was kinda disappointing mainly because they tried to stretch it over 2 episodes (and you also can't really make the fight look as cool when one of the people isn't a superhuman servant). I thought Gilgamesh vs Shirou/Berserker were both about as good as they could be, given the kind of straight-forward nature of GoB, though.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:41
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah; most of the more melee-oriented servant fights were really cool (like Archer vs Lancer and the aforementioned Saber vs Berserker), but the EMIYA vs Shirou fight was kinda disappointing mainly because they tried to stretch it over 2 episodes (and you also can't really make the fight look as cool when one of the people isn't a superhuman servant). I thought Gilgamesh vs Shirou/Berserker were both about as good as they could be, given the kind of straight-forward nature of GoB, though. I fel like they could have done a bit more work with camera angles and emphasised the physical contest between Shirou and Gil a little more. We know how UBW works at this point, we don't need another gazillion scenes of CG swords raining out of the sky. Just keep it in the background, show UBW blades deflecting GOB weapons aimed at Shirou's back, that sort of thing. Keep it a sideshow, because the whole point is that an ordinary schlub is neutralising the King of Heroes's primary weapon and forcing him to fight like a (relative) normie. Hell, you could even make the fight a little more undignified than a simple sword-fight, just to rub it in - kicks, sand in the eyes, all that jazz. Really emphasise how Shirou is holding his own through desperation and a gleeful willingness to fight dishonourably.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:05
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Darth Walrus posted:I fel like they could have done a bit more work with camera angles and emphasised the physical contest between Shirou and Gil a little more. We know how UBW works at this point, we don't need another gazillion scenes of CG swords raining out of the sky. Just keep it in the background, show UBW blades deflecting GOB weapons aimed at Shirou's back, that sort of thing. Keep it a sideshow, because the whole point is that an ordinary schlub is neutralising the King of Heroes's primary weapon and forcing him to fight like a (relative) normie. Hell, you could even make the fight a little more undignified than a simple sword-fight, just to rub it in - kicks, sand in the eyes, all that jazz. Really emphasise how Shirou is holding his own through desperation and a gleeful willingness to fight dishonourably. Shirou bottles up some piss prior to the battle and suddenly throw it into Gil's face in the middle of the fight. Gil destroys reality using Ea.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:12
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It's been a long while since I checked but wasn't UBW vs GOB described as a literal rain of blades against each other that continuously fall even when they're in melee, rather than the way they've always animated it which is like a dozen vs a dozen? I don't think there'd be enough budget in the world.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:35
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Ytlaya posted:Shirou bottles up some piss prior to the battle and suddenly throw it into Gil's face in the middle of the fight. "King of Heroes, do you POCKET SAND!"
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Jul 17, 2017 23:30
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Pierson posted:It's been a long while since I checked but wasn't UBW vs GOB described as a literal rain of blades against each other that continuously fall even when they're in melee, rather than the way they've always animated it which is like a dozen vs a dozen? I don't think there'd be enough budget in the world. UBW vs GoB was for the most part Shirou using whatever Gil pulled out as a Broken Phantasm, forcing Gil to desperately destroy his own treasures in order to counter the attacks. It wasn't a contest of swordsmanship or tactics in any way or form - since Shirou had the replicas primed before the originals were even fully emerged from the Gate of Babylon, Gilgamesh was perfectly countered. Shirou was of course against the clock in regards to how long his body or mana would hold out, but it was Gilgamesh who was cornered and struggling to stay alive the entire way through. While a fitting inversion of roles for how Gil normally does battle, probably wouldn't have been that good as the climatic final battle in the adaptation.
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Jul 18, 2017 00:43
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when shirou cuts gil's arm off right when he grabs ea it loving rules that's my thought on the final ubw fight
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Jul 18, 2017 00:52
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I loved Gil's subtle but visible hesitation on grabbing Ea too, even when he's getting his poo poo pushed in, he doesn't want to use it against what should be trash. A nice embellishment on the source material.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:36
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In general UBW sold me Gil much better than F/Z ever did. Then again, I like UBW much more than F/Z, so maybe thats the reason.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:12
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I was generally disappointed with Archer vs. Shirou, but I thought UBW handled the Gil fight really well. I was also happy they closed what I always felt was a bit of a plothole where Gil uses Ea against Shirou in the VN for yucks but somehow doesn't kill him, whereas in the anime Shirou gets his glimps of it when Gil uses it to bash away the grail. Made a lot more sense IMO.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:34
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Pierson posted:I don't think there'd be enough budget in the world.
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Jul 18, 2017 04:28
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Nate RFB posted:I was generally disappointed with Archer vs. Shirou, but I thought UBW handled the Gil fight really well. I was also happy they closed what I always felt was a bit of a plothole where Gil uses Ea against Shirou in the VN for yucks but somehow doesn't kill him, whereas in the anime Shirou gets his glimps of it when Gil uses it to bash away the grail. Made a lot more sense IMO. IIRC this is supposed to be when Archer uses Rho Aius to protect Shirou from Ea, and Shirou subconsciously glimpses it and gets the idea to use it himself to protect him from Gil's sword spam. I think the logic is it's like a dude who has a really expensive sportscar, you don't want the filthy pleb actually riding in it god no, but you might bring it out just to rev the engines and honk the horn at him; and then afterwards immediately decide that even that is too good for him and then you double down on your decision to avoid bringing it out in case somehow his bad breath ruins the paint. If you interpret Gilgamesh as being a little more petty and immature than he would claim it makes some sense. e: But yeah using it to bash away the Hands I think is more visibly consistent with what the audience expects. I also feel like we needed the UBW-Gil fight to be more close up and personal, not Shirou desperately trying to close the distance the entire time.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:13
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Even then I find it hard to believe Rho Aius wouldn't fold like paper against Ea.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:54
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i hate the gil vs shirou fight in the ubw anime for having shirou shoot swords around even though that is literally the opposite of the point of that scene
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Jul 19, 2017 16:56
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Uh Shirou shooting swords is THE thing Shirou does in that scene. It's the lovely UBW movie that made it a loving swordfight.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:14
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the scene in the vn always seems to describe it as shirou physically using swords, and how that's the entire reason Shirou can beat Gilgamesh. It's a contrast between their characters. Shirou uses each sword physically, Gil fires them like bullets. Shirou cares about the people around them, Gilgamesh doesn't. It's symbolism. And TBH the ubw movie has better fights than the UBW anime
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Jul 19, 2017 17:48
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I wish the VN was out in English.  Edit: because then it might have a better translation hostess with the Moltres fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 17:56
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Endorph posted:the scene in the vn always seems to describe it as shirou physically using swords, and how that's the entire reason Shirou can beat Gilgamesh. It's a contrast between their characters. Shirou uses each sword physically, Gil fires them like bullets. Shirou cares about the people around them, Gilgamesh doesn't. It's symbolism.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:05
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isn't the entire point of the fight that Shirou, in his reality marble, has his swords ready instantly to counter the barrage of the gate of babylon and Gil is disadvantaged by summon times, which is exemplified in the end when Gil hesitates to grab Ea and Shirou is already on him before he can swing the ubw film shows it as Shirou, among his endless world of swords, only using one and breaking all of Gil's superior weapons with it somehow and just completely overpowering him while Gil makes zero attempt to actually use his gate, fighting full melee like he's Saber class. when Golden Boy realizes he's an idiot and instantly pulls out Ea (no hesitation)—Shirou projects his twin swords in response, screams, and jumps at him and when they match swings Shirou comes out on top because ?? the ubw film is literally the opposite of the point of the vn fight
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Jul 19, 2017 18:08
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No, it was literally Shirou swinging identical copies of Gilgamesh's swords as Broken Phantasms.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:08
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Broken phantasm also raise the weapon's strength by one rank.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:12
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The VN makes no mention of Shirou using Broken Phantasms, though. I had always thought that the only time one got used was when Archer launched one at Herc.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:14
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Shirou wasn't using broken phantasms. He can't at that point, that's EMIYA's gimmick. He's just sacrificing one sword to break another.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:21
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Conspiratiorist posted:No, it was literally Shirou swinging identical copies of Gilgamesh's swords as Broken Phantasms. he's matching weapon for weapon in the VN, yes. but in the film version gilgamesh dual wields generic swords, whereas Shirou projects Caliburn early on and uses it to wail on Gil for the rest of the fight and its boring because Gil just stands there trying to block without fighting back. in comparison, ufotable fight is very tense and shirou is constantly having to zip and dodge and parry with the swords in his hands while the swords he's launching are handling the brunt of the gate's flurry. it actually evokes their positions as the Strongest Servant and a complete underdog who has to claw his way through the fight also, a broken phantasm is when you sacrifice the NP to detonate it like EMIYA does (key point: big explosion). the premise has nothing to do with just projecting a sword and wielding it. the reason projection is important is that anyone can use a broken phantasm, but essentially no one would destroy their NP except for EMIYA whose projections can be discarded and remade.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:30
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there's a handful of fights in the film I think are done just fine but Gil's isn't one of them. and the big offender is Herc's fight which is truncated to the point of removing all emotional buildup from the scene. Herc takes swords, dies. Illya dies. bye. the tv anime blew this one away with a fight that really showcases what ufotable can bring to the series. the fight is embellished in interesting, fresh ways that should excite returning fans, while taking care to illustrate the tone of the battle and how Herc's bond with Illya shapes him even in madness, giving him character. It's especially important that the viewer develops sympathy for those two leading into Heaven's Feel, imo. lastly, people call ufotable effects overdone, but the ubw film uses star wars blaster sounds when swords clang against each other.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:20
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It's like those people didn't read the vn or something...
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Jul 19, 2017 19:56
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Endorph posted:And TBH the ubw movie has better fights than the UBW anime 
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Jul 19, 2017 20:01
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Nate RFB posted:The VN makes no mention of Shirou using Broken Phantasms, though. I had always thought that the only time one got used was when Archer launched one at Herc. The term "Broken Phantasm" merely refers to self-destructing an NP for a power boost at the expense of the weapon. It's used when  how Archer used Caladbolg vs Berserker and, although not called by name in the middle of a heated action scene, Gil and Shirou both employ the technique during their fight inside UBW in the VN.Elaborating: the reason Caladbolg shots are flashy is that, specifically, the technique Archer uses with it is to reinforce and overload it, primed so it activates its miracle and self-destructs at the same time like a missile. Gilgamesh and Shirou skip the calling True Names part (no time!) and just overload them for the attack Rank Up so they can counter each other's strikes. Or rather, Shirou is doing it, so Gilgamesh has no choice but to match it else he'll be struck down.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:02
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yeah anyway the ubw film's version of the gil fight is bad too but i hate it less than the ufotable one
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Jul 19, 2017 20:12
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UBW was so fuckin' good yo. I can't wait for Heavens Feel.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:18
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anyway i guess my point is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD3396VxaEY&t=78s this tiny bit with saber and herc testing each other in the deen 2010 op is way cooler than anything ufotable's ever done
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Jul 19, 2017 21:02
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Endorph posted:anyway i guess my point is That's basically the Saber vs. Diarmuid fight which is probably one of the best anime fight scenes.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:09
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 "NO ONE DID UBW RIGHT! THEY ARE ALL poo poo! SHHHHHHHIIIIIIITTTTT!"
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Jul 19, 2017 21:12
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