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ComfyPants
Mar 20, 2002

Still too biased, it makes it look like Chris wildly overstated what was going to be released and how soon!

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Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
Not to be that guy, but has Derek ever offered a satisfactory explanation for why his games are so weird?

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Danknificent posted:

Not to be that guy, but has Derek ever offered a satisfactory explanation for why his games are so weird?

Made by grognard for grognards

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

D_Smart posted:

Yeah, they were focused on winning backers with pretty pictures. And they succeeded. Then when it came time to build and deliver the game, they realized that there was no tech to power the pretty pictures. I mean, the CitizenCon 2016 stream was the biggest indicator when they tried to pass of that poo poo as actual 3.0. Back when a lot of people (even guys here btw) were thinking it was real, Goons on my Discord and I were laughing our asses off because the minute I saw it, I knew that there was NO loving WAY that was anything but a proof of concept demo running in a controlled environment. I wrote a blog. A lot of noise happened. CIG had to come clean. They made a loving "Road To CitizenCon" video.


You're welcome. I love this stuff. Sadly, it's never received all that well around here when I share technical stuff. That's why I try to shy away from doing it. But this time, I had no choice because a LOT of people really don't have a clue how this stuff is done, and they're the ones most confused by all the bullshit coming out of CIG and Shitizens.

I mean, I did this poo poo almost three decades ago back when I had to build every loving thing myself - no middleware. Even that PTEStudio tool right now will crash (MFC bullshit) if I move the window when its running. I'm too scared to even go in and fix it. The last time I built it was back in 2008!! It still works. And I even included it in the UCCE 3.0 modding tools I released a few months back on Steam.

It's hilarious to me that CIG and Shitizens are touting "revolutionary" tech, when all this already exists in some form or another. The only thing they're revolutionizing is incompetence and wastefulness.

I think it's awesome so you can ignore anybody who says otherwise here. :colbert:

I think it's awesome that you're passionate about it all, because you've invested so much into learning how it all goes together. I think it gives you a unique perspective into what CR says he's going to do. I still doubt he's coded a line of code since the 90s.

Chris Roberts talks about how he's going to do all these amazing things like it's child's play. He's in it for "acting macho" in the programming world. It eats me up to see not only people buying into it, but even companies who have actual talent behind them.

I work in a Linux world, so graphics are beyond me. I handle big data, database interaction with web software and other enormous multi-server entities, but I've always respected game coders just because I know it's hard and thankless usually.

Though for you I can only imagine when CR is all "oh yes, not only will you land on your planet you'll also interact with a world as detailed as crysis but whole planets! With wildlife! That you can hunt! And procedural birds! Yeah it's like so simple we just flip a switch!"

And everybody is all "omg it's loving amazing sauce!"

And you and others like you (even me!, but less in experience), are all "wtf is this guy serious? Surely nobody is dumb enough to..."

And then CIG makes another 2 million dollars. Of course, none of this easy stuff ever materializes or appears, and there's not even anything more than a YouTube video as "evidence", and everybody is good with it.

It makes me shake my head, but I bet for you it's more upsetting because not only is he saying things you and some others have done through hard work, he's also adding tons of lies that people just dive head first into. I know that's got to be frustrating because everybody wonders why this didn't happen to a developer who could have actually done something with this.

This huge, enormous windfall of free money and support fell into quite possibly the worst possible ex-developer. It's all squandered and wasted. What could have fueled a normal studio for decades and multiple games is going to run out before CR even makes a good functional vertical slice of even his single player game.

I have not supported CIG yet, but I know there is irreparable harm done to how games will evolve and get funded now. It's going to be a lot harder to be an indie dev now. It's going to also be hard to have a great idea but fight the "I'm not CR guys really!" stigma that's going to plague projects that have unique scope.

Worst of all I know there is going to be more people looking to cash in on this the same way CR has. Lots of lies, lots of great art, zero intent to follow through more than a "well we kinda tried, thanks for the Porsche!"

I'm sorry indie developers of the world. :(

On the bright side, Derek, at least you are retired and successful already.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

Danknificent posted:

Not to be that guy, but has Derek ever offered a satisfactory explanation for why his games are so weird?

He has Autism. It is not a joke.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Danknificent posted:

Not to be that guy, but has Derek ever offered a satisfactory explanation for why his games are so weird?

Sims for grognards was mentioned recently and bc3000ad ticks a lot of grog boxes; single insane developer, bad graphics, incomprehensible ui. Sort of a pre-graviteam tactics without the Russian charm.

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.

trucutru posted:

Made by grognard for grognards

So I had to google grognard, but okay. But I don't care if Derek is a degenerate furry or whatever that is; I'd like to remind everyone that he's the man who unironically saved me - for serious - from spending literally tens of dollars on a Star Citizen starter package.

I'm not kidding. I'd have done it if not for Derek's shenanigans raising awareness of Chris' shenanigans and all that.

What I'm getting at is that even if his games are weird and he has strange kinks, Derek Smart is an American hero :911: and deserving of our respect.

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
free tophat

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Sillybones posted:

He has Autism. It is not a joke.

AUTISM WAS NOT A JOKE

Evrart Claire
Jan 11, 2008

TheAgent posted:

I mean one guy has done in a year what star citizen wishes it could be

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/updates/875717459/1497238242

all its lacking are the pretty, pretty pictures

Ok this looks really neat. Does the guy have a timeline on when this goes beta or early access?

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:

There's something about this response to G0RF's infographic that's insanely funny to me:



It's like Moses climbs down from the mountain and discovers the Hebrews have all backed Star Citizen.

This is sad. :(

I know a lot of these guys are all just wanting to be left in peace, and that's fine. But if your hobby is getting punched in the tits repeatedly eventually people are going to watch. Then they're going to laugh. Then they're going to wonder why you keep doing it. Then they'll figure that the last punch that knocked you out is definitely the one that would make you stop. But you go again and again, and it gets worse, and there's blood, but you can't help but yell out like Leslie Neilson, "I love it!" But also each time you get knocked on your rear end you also pay the guy $20, and then he spits on you and tells you next time he's going to give you a big hug instead.

Backers are the ones getting punched in the tits.

The rest of us are just awestruck that backers are getting punched in the tits when they seemingly just want a hug. There's hugs everywhere, go get a hug somewhere!

But no, backers want a hug only from the guy in black who keeps punching them.

This is logical in Star Citizen.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away
I am kind of in disbelief that when things look bad for CIG you can't even agree on basic facts or reality. Everything becomes up for debate and consideration. Less planets is actually more. Your desires for how the game turns out were never supported, even if you can point exactly where they were. Facts are no longer facts. The Kickstarter was for something else, even though you can still look at it. The game is only in development for 2 years.

It must be the realities of development. Supercharged development particles. They are sending ripples out and altering the very fabric of time and space. In two weeks development will begin again for the first time.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Sillybones posted:

I am kind of in disbelief that when things look bad for CIG you can't even agree on basic facts or reality. Everything becomes up for debate and consideration. Less planets is actually more. Your desires for how the game turns out were never supported, even if you can point exactly where they were. Facts are no longer facts. The Kickstarter was for something else, even though you can still look at it. The game is only in development for 2 years.

It must be the realities of development. Supercharged development particles. They are sending ripples out and altering the very fabric of time and space. In two weeks development will begin again for the first time.

If you really want to see how nailed down things are, ask:

How does mining work?

How much will ship X cost me in the game?

How will I buy and sell goods?

What happens to my character and ship if I get blown up?


These are just basic questions that, technically, everybody can knowingly answer with confidence. The game is 5 years old or more now, and has millions of people apparently playing it.

But, each person will probably have a totally different answer for you. That's how nailed down Star Citizen is.

So when you start asking theoretical questions and development progress stuff and is this or that a better direction to go in, you've gone into bat country, friend. You'll get nonsensical babbling and probably at least a few "you must be a goon/derek alt" comment.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


how are things

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



Derek laying down the doxxing law by forcing Ben Perry to sign up to online forums under the username "Ben Perry" with a picture of himself as an avatar.

Wise Learned Man
Apr 22, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

D_Smart posted:

Yeah. We did that to rope in some guys to help us test. In exchange, they got a bunch of really cool stuff. After we had enough people, in April 2016, I switched it to CBT. http://lodgame.com/store/

Cock-and-Ball Torture, or Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy? :grin:


Ramadu posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7VUUBx5lKU

lmao i forgot how bad this still is

peter gabriel posted:

Oh god imagine if it's still like that

Ramadu posted:

i hope it is. god i hope it is

I'm legitimately worried that I'm never gonna get to laugh at Crobbitz' magnum opus.

Hopefully some devoted citizens will buy the source code from Coutts and release it before I die.

SPERMCUBE.ORG
Nov 3, 2011

Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

MedicineHut posted:

I'm sure this must have been posted here before no?



Socrates to Plato: "I called it in my Hekatombaion blog!"

nawledgelambo
Nov 8, 2016

Immersion chariot
I love the fact that this lovely, under-delivered threedotzero patch has completely overshadowed the fact that Gamescom is in like three weeks

gently caress this is going to be good

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

G0RF posted:

Here's a Pure Data edition, friend. Just for you.



I think it's wonderful that you come back and a lurker felt utterly compelled to archive you. We are living rent-free in their heads.

NVB
Jan 23, 2010

Grimey Drawer

Danknificent posted:

Not to be that guy, but has Derek ever offered a satisfactory explanation for why his games are so weird?

He's game/s are targeted to a certain gamer niche, sure they're def not some peoples cup of tea just like pineapple on pizza. I for one enjoy the game even if the graphics arn't AAA fidelity trillion polygon .jpgs it works and i'm fine with it.

+ he's funding it out of he's own pocket so he can design it to how ever he wants at what ever pace he wants cause he doesn't have to answer to publishers/investors or payday loan banks.

Kromlech
Jun 28, 2017

by FactsAreUseless

Ghostlight posted:

Derek you can't just quote yourself from another forum into this one. You have to blog it first. Those are the rules.
lol

Blue Cross Blue Balls posted:

He's game/s are targeted to a certain gamer niche,
Scientology is not a gamer niche

Kromlech fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 20, 2017

Kromlech
Jun 28, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
pineapples on pizza: bad

over-stressed coffeeshop Wi-Fi: worse

star citizen: worst

toanoradian
May 31, 2011


The happiest waffligator
Staying in a coffeshop, eating that pineapple pizza slowly while using the wi-fi to browse Star Citizen-related forums: smart

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

toanoradian posted:

Staying in a coffeshop, eating that pineapple pizza slowly while using the wi-fi to browse Star Citizen-related forums: smart

*stirs yogurt and blue cheese into coffee*

Kromlech
Jun 28, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
Barista: "You disgust me sir."

Maw
Feb 18, 2013

Mere minutes after discovering the new technology, it was used to send me a crude ASCII dong.


New thread title is :discourse:

Lazrin posted:

the one thing i can't get straight around here is, do you get more of an autistic boner when cig decreases the scope, or when they increase the scope of 3.0?

It's both, it just never stops growing

Arms_Akimbo
Sep 29, 2006

It's so damn...literal.

Danknificent posted:

Not to be that guy, but has Derek ever offered a satisfactory explanation for why his games are so weird?

They're designed for people who miss the days when games came with keyboard command overlays to put on top of your keyboard. There's most certainly a market for it, and he never intends to sell a trillion copies. Think of it as a hardcore mod for train simulator.

tastychicken
Jul 17, 2007
Title text goes here

no_recall posted:

Not sure if this was posted before, but I do hope Star Citizen as a "competitor" does the same.

http://ar2016.frontier.co.uk/

Star Citizen : there is no spoon.

:trumppop:

CIG's going to beat this in every conceivable way... by being more open... by not saying a thing!

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help
So, I took a another look at their "schedule" page.

Delamar is mentioned as a planet. (Is it? GORF's infographic shows it as a moon)

quote:

DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL)
* We are adding the planet Delamar and the landing zone, Levski
* There are currently issues with the room system markup that need to be revisited by the Design team to be fixed.
* ETA is 14th July (was 7th July)
This is also not updated as complete or not, even though other tasks have been marked as feature complete.

Also, lol, volumetric fog is still not updated as feature complete, and still says "ETA is 9th June (was 30th May)".

grimcreaper
Jan 7, 2012

Kromlech posted:

pineapples on pizza: bad

over-stressed coffeeshop Wi-Fi: worse

star citizen: worst

Pineapple on pizza is the best. It adds a subtle sweetness that the pizza needs. If you truly disagree it means you are definitely a shitizen.

Maw
Feb 18, 2013

Mere minutes after discovering the new technology, it was used to send me a crude ASCII dong.


grimcreaper posted:

Pineapple on pizza is the best. It adds a subtle sweetness that the pizza needs. If you truly disagree it means you are definitely a shitizen.

this guy gets it



e: tax

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

MedicineHut posted:

I'm sure this must have been posted here before no?



Amazing

Dark Off
Aug 14, 2015




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1E3l8pewzY&t=1009s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0grZDNdUYY&t=2753s

theres tons of interviews and ingame demos from 2013-2014 that might be fun in retrospect, if someone has time to do some digging.

toanoradian
May 31, 2011


The happiest waffligator

grimcreaper posted:

Pineapple on pizza is the best. It adds a subtle sweetness that the pizza needs. If you truly disagree it means you are definitely a shitizen.

No, the correct toilet paper position is under.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



If you think the sweetness of pineapple is subtle then you have broken pineapples or broken tastebuds.

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development

toanoradian posted:

No, the correct toilet paper position is under.

:same:

And the ketchup bottle is stored in the cupboard, not fridge

Beexoffel
Oct 4, 2015

Herald of the Stimpire
Skywanderers: one guy, less than a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCITNnomMkqQv1aNi_8dxVBQ?videos

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

notoriousman posted:

My favorite E:D critics are the ones with 800 hours sunk in and they regret every moment! This game is so shallow and lacking in content I dedicated an entire month's worth of time doing absolutely nothing!

http://steamcommunity.com/id/honkylips/recommended/359320/

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Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

G0RF posted:

Whew!

So it took me awhile to read through all the comments about the chart on /Games. Though there were lots of crazed invocations of Derek Smart, demonizations of goons, and other overreactions, I did see a few fair criticisms that I've addressed in this latest update.

1). The inclusion of the reduction percentages was redundant. Fair enough. I deleted that.

2) Chris' quote didn't include his "I get shot for making promises but that's our goal" escape clause, the line that retroactively makes it all okay. So I included that, too.

3) I also added his mention of the 30 to 40 space stations that would be coming in 3.0. (We'll see how that turns out.)

4) I also fixed a graphical problem that had white boxes behind the Planet names in the Stanton layout.

So here's the latest version. If you're a DS lurker who feels like the last one was flawed or shortchanged Chris's quote, hopefully you might find this an improvement. I'm trying to be fair, even if stern.



I have to admit, lurking friends, some of your reactions were a little frustrating, given that I'd tried to avoid editorializing. The focus of the piece was timelines, quotes, and scopes for Star Systems in Alpha 3.0.

The accusations that the infographic was a part of some organized FUD campaign were especially ironic, given that some of you tried to preemptively trying to counter an anticipated Derek Smart tweet and in so doing ended up creating a non-paywalled source for the /Games OP to reference.


I didn't make the chart hoping for a /GAMES thread to blow up, or a MassivelyOP mention, or a psychodrama to unfold on /DS. I made it for my friends here on the forum, most of whom I haven't interacted with in a year, because organizing historical facts is something I like to do. It's clear to us by now that Chris Roberts doesn't learn from history because he keeps repeating it, so we keep discussing it, yet what I don't understand is why you keep defending it?

Surely I have my own biases, as do we all, but why rage about what strangers think on some random forum? Your recurring tendency to discount the observable past while exaggerating the imagined future produces the present tensions that discomfit you so. The relief you seek yet can't find won't come from excoriating random nobodies for discussing their opinions about troubling development issues or deceptive sales tactics. You are the publisher. The ones to whom pledges have been made for accountability and openness. You're intellectually and emotionally malnourished from the parody of it served up by a guy who believes himself accountable to no one and above all reproach. A man who hasn't once in the entire history of this project ever apologized for anything despite having either intentionally or inadvertently mislead you about matters of genuine consequence for years.

You deserve better than to be full-time apologists for that. I sincerely believe that --- why don't you?

Good post, G0rf, you even taught me a new word today :golfclap:

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