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That dough's looking great. ogopogo posted:I'm also working with a sourdough starter in a low-humidity desert environment. I would love to get into the sourdough starter game, but I unfortunately travel for work a few times a year, up to 3 weeks at a time. I have not yet quite reached the level of obsession that I would take my starter with me, and I am not sure if international customs would look kindly on me trying to carry on what looks like a science experiment.
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Jul 23, 2017 19:03
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Doom Rooster posted:That dough's looking great. You get the starter strong enough, and you can go 4+ weeks between feedings  I'm very lucky that I've got a punky, tough as hell starter. I keep a rotating stock of frozen batches as back up, as well as a couple living batches I have in the fridge, and some I experiment with on the counter. I'm on the road quite a bit for my job as well, but so far I've yet to kill my starter, and it's only getting better and better as I keep it hopped up on Antimo Caputo 00. A properly sealed and refrigerated starter (in my limited experience) will hold remarkably well over a few weeks between feedings. But maybe that's after building up it's strength over some time! Worth trying though.
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Jul 23, 2017 19:28
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Mine has been very hardy as well, I've forgotten it in the back of the fridge for at least 3-4 weeks more than once, and it feeds like nothing happened without fail. I was worried it would be a commitment when I started it last year, but it is something that just happens every couple weeks. It helps that I'm making pizza once or twice a week minimum.
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Jul 23, 2017 21:21
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:What kind of white sauce is that? I've been using a pretty simple Parmesan cream sauce and I've noticed I have to be super dainty with it, otherwise it seems to separate out and get hella messy. No sauce! just olive oil, mozzarella and some thyme and origano from the garden. I normally use fresh mozzarella for pizza, but I should experiment with processed mozzarella for white pizza (i find the oily residue it makes when it melts kinda buttery if that makes sense)
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Jul 24, 2017 02:39
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goku i won't do what u tell me
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Huh. The next time I have more than 2 weeks in town is mid-September, then I'll be back home until May. I'll get a starter going then, and hope that it's strong enough by the time I have to go on my next long trip. Thanks guys!
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Jul 24, 2017 15:06
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It's worth a whirl, at worst you'll be out a few ounces of flour and water. Otherwise, let that sour, bubbly, goop rock n' roll!
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Jul 24, 2017 15:19
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Tried out the Blackstone for the second time. The first time, I just grabbed some dough from the store and made some NY style pizzas, but they weren't worth posting at all. I definitely should have scaled the dough down because one of their balls of dough was probably enough for one 20" pie, but I was trying to make it a 14" pie and it kinda worked/kinda didn't. Learned a bit about the oven though! Last night I used the dough from Doom Rooster's recipe. It was pretty easy to work with, but I ended up putting all the dough balls on a baking sheet and pulled them all out at the same time...the last two were very hard to work with since they were starting to get pretty sticky and stretch out a bit more than the others. Here's the best two of the bunch, though I'm not too proud of either of them. The first picture was the last pie I made. I think I did better at stretching this one out (minus the fact that it is not a circle...we'll call it artisanal) but I think the cheese got overcooked. As it cooled down, it looked a bit better and tasted better. The second picture was my third pie I made. I don't think that was stretched out well at all, due to huge air pockets showing up and making a large crust. Also way too much sauce. First try making NP style pizzas, and my thoughts are: A) The dough is fairly easy to work with, but I have a hard time pressing the air bubbles out of the crust. I was using the method that the guy in this video does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4lL5I-UYbk&t=127s but lots of bubbles were popping up on the crust. The first pie I let go into the oven just with bubbles and all, but one of them popped up way too huge (about 3" high) and caught on fire pretty quick, so that was a dud. B) Finding the right amount of sauce to put on the pizza is pretty difficult. When I tried using less sauce, the crust seemed to be too thin and the sauce dried out in places. But in the second picture, I think there was too much sauce, which leads me to... C) The center of the dough was often not cooked as well as the rest of the pizza. I'm not sure if the stone wasn't pre-heated enough on some of them, or if I had too much sauce which inhibited the cooking process. I'd let the pie rest for a few minutes, then cut into it, but most of the time the end of the pizza would look not as cooked, or soggy, compared to the rest of it. D) Definitely a balance in using this oven. On pies that I left the oven running at full blast, the top had some nice leoparding, but then just didn't stop cooking. I think the best thing to do is preheat it 10-15 minutes, then slide the pie in, and drop down to low...adjust as necessary to ensure a good cheese melt at the end. E) Definitely need to figure out a better way to have everything prepped out and ready. I had my sauce and cheese inside the house, along with all the dough balls, and I was making those and shaping the pizzas out one at a time, then cooking one, and while it rested before I cut it, I'd prep the next dough ball. I got to the fourth pizza and was going a little crazy from running back and forth. My poor wife was trying to eat a slice of each one and tell me what was good and bad with them, but I was just focused on getting another one in the oven. Next time I think I'll do less dough balls or try and take more time in between each one. So questions.... 1) What's a good sauce amount to use? Am I correct in thinking I put too much sauce on that pizza in the second picture? 2) When should I put the cheese on? Some videos say to cook the pizza with just sauce at first, and then take it out and add the cheese and other toppings. It seems like in the first picture, the cheese was on too long, or the pizza just overcooked. 3) Methods for getting the huge air pockets out of the crust on the edge? 4) What do you think are the reasons for the center not cooking as much,. or appearing more soggy, then the rest of the pizza?  
nwin fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 12:51
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A soggy middle is a feature of Neapolitan style pizza. That's why you get them on a plate with cutlery in Naples (or folded up). But yeah you could probably put less sauce on, more sauce contains more water which absorbs more heat which prevents the middle from cooking, and it runs a bit too much on the plate. It should be soft in the middle, but with less sauce it will be less so and just pleasingly gooey. More like butter on bread, less like an omelette filling, might be a good sauce guide. No need to put the cheese on later. If you want the entire crust crispy, then you have to cook the dough by itself before you add sauce and cheese. Big air pockets are also a feature of that style, I have a bit of olive oil and salt on the side and use the bubble cavern to scoop it up. To reduce it, squeeze more air out, to prevent it you have to prick the dough with a fork. Enjoy it instead of prevent it is my take.
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Jul 27, 2017 13:09
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those two pizzas look great! 
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Jul 27, 2017 14:27
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Those look pretty loving great man! The air in the edge of the crust is a desired feature, nothing to try and get rid of. As Ola said, you don't need much sauce at all for a neapolitan pizza. Cheese should go on with everything else at the same time for sure. Otherwise I think you're looking good. Like you said, setting up your mise en place and having a workflow for building/firing/serving pizzas goes a long way in reducing the "pizza serious" face that can happen when you get way too focused and your partner is wondering why you look like a madman who hates it all.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:44
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That is a legit great Neapolitan. Don't try to get rid of the bubbles, they're awesome!
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Jul 27, 2017 16:15
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Yeah dude I kind of want to hit you for complaining about that pie. Looks awesome.
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Jul 27, 2017 16:41
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ogopogo posted:Those look pretty loving great man! The air in the edge of the crust is a desired feature, nothing to try and get rid of. As Ola said, you don't need much sauce at all for a neapolitan pizza. Cheese should go on with everything else at the same time for sure. Otherwise I think you're looking good. Like you said, setting up your mise en place and having a workflow for building/firing/serving pizzas goes a long way in reducing the "pizza serious" face that can happen when you get way too focused and your partner is wondering why you look like a madman who hates it all. Haha, I appreciate all the compliments-I'm my own worst critic. I know the bubbles are a desired feature and pieces that have those are usually the ones I head for first. The reason I was asking is because the first ball I pressed out, there was a rather large air bubble that showed up, which didn't seem like a big deal to me. Then when I put it in the oven, it immediately expanded maybe 3-5 times it's original size, which I thought looked cool, but a bit big. Then it got near the flame and immediately caught fire-which didn't look at all cool. When I was watching that guy's videos, I didn't see any of his outer crust have the size of air pockets that mine did, so I was wondering if maybe I should press them out to get them to look more like his-glad to see that's not the case! I'll keep in mind the sauce. I'll I did was take an immersion blender to a can of Cento peeled San Marzanos, and added a bit of salt and basil to it, but it seemed VERY watery. I guess next time I'll drain some of the juice off the top prior to using the blender? I didn't blend long-just short bursts to chop up each tomato. And you hit the nail on the head with taking it too serious. I was trying to just crank them out one after the other like I was feeding a small army, when I really should have taken my time and let the grill heat up or cool down as needed so we could wait for the next one to start cooking.
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Jul 27, 2017 16:49
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nwiniwn posted:
There's something called the Brix scale, which is a way to determine ideal ripeness to harvest fruit via the amount of sugar per gram of aqueous solution. When the Brix number of the tomato is right for harvest, they take those tomatoes and cook them down for canning, which raises the Brix to their ideal canning Brix number, usually 6-7. There's a certain amount of water in the tomato now, we know this because we can determine the Brix of that final can, and from that pull out the . Immersion blenders and blenders tend to break up the tomato so much that it releases all the water the fruit is holding, creating a watered down sauce. I use a stick blender and give it maybe 2 or 3 4 second bursts. Just enough to break up the tomatoes and get everything consistent. You can do this by hand or with a fork too. If it's still too watery for you, definitely feel free to strain and drain till you reach something you like and works for your pizza! I do 8g of salt per 800g can of DOP tomatoes.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:09
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I use crushed tomatoes for my sauce, and just dump the can in a fine strainer and stir until it's the consistency I want.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:48
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Great looking pies! You've also gotten an lot of good info from others as well as compliments, so I feel comfortable coming in and being the spergy pedant. A couple of quick things from me: Bubbles are good. Bubbles so big that they completely char and light on fire, I do not like. When I am opening up a ball, any obvious bubbles bigger than my thumb, I pinch open, empty, then pinch back closed. Up your tomato game. We did a tomato side by side with something like 15 different brands at once, varying levels of salt, cooked and uncooked. Cento was on the low end of the middle of the spectrum, noted for being super watery. The #1 was unanimous for everyone involved, and is both easily found on Amazon, and very reasonably priced. These bad boys right here. We've also tried about 10 new ones since then and only one brand BARELY beat out the Carmelina's, and they were an only sold in Italy brand that I had to pay a guy to pick up, then ship to me and I spent about $1.90 per ounce for two cans to get to my local post office after two weeks for me to go pickup, all said and done. The Carmelinas are $0.14 per ounce, and arrive on my door in 2 days The Carmelina tomatoes are way less watery than Cento, and you should be using less than what's on the second pie, but you may still want to strain them a little. Cheesecloth/nut milk bags are amazing for separating out just tomato water, but if you've got a very fine mesh strainer, that can work. I'm a huge sperg, so I typically strain out WAY more water than necessary, then mix back in the water until I get my preferred consistency. NP pie bottoms should be soft and pliable, but not soggy/doughy. Take a look at the "soggy" parts. If they are not at all browned on the bottom of those parts, it's because they aren't making contact with the stone. Very often, the dough will form a good enough seal around the outside, that steam coming off the bottom will push up on thinner parts. Think water pooling in spots on a flat roof, just upside down. This is easily fixed. Just wait about 10 seconds after launching the pizza onto the stone, then carefully run your turning peel under it on all sides. This separates the dough clinging to the stone (before it would normally release due to cooking/drying). This will allow the steam to escape the sides, and you won't have bits of the crust floating on steam. (getting better at opening the dough into very consistent thickness also helps, as you don't get those weaker thinner spots). You're cheese is a little overcooked, but not terribly so. Use fewer, thicker pieces, and keep them cold up to the point that they go on the pie. When the rest of the pizza is done, it may look like the cheese is not fully melted through. That's fine, unless you put GIANT chunks on there, they will melt with the residual heat of the pizza prior to eating. Don't pull six balls out at once unless you are doing nothing but making those pizzas while someone else cooks and eats them. If you want to make six in one go, at least separate into groups of three, and stagger taking them out by about 20 minutes. Reinforcing the "I was trying to just crank them out one after the other like I was feeding a small army, when I really should have taken my time and let the grill heat up or cool down as needed so we could wait for the next one to start cooking." Yup. You will get to know your oven better, and check the temp of the stone before every pie. You will start to see what the temp needs to be for the perfect pie. Too hot from leaving it on full blast between pies, launching another pie too soon, before the stone has had a chance to come up to temp after the last pie, etc... Every variable is important to the final product. The good news is, even "not perfect" pies are loving delicious! All of the above being said, those look CRAZY good for how early into this you are, and I would totally chow down on both of them. My first few batches of pies were tepid and bland looking by comparison, so you should be super loving proud of yourself and your oven. Doom Rooster fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 18:53
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 first try using my own NY dough recipe on the black stone.Cooked it maybe 30 seconds too long in my opinion and the dough didn't seem to taste the same as when I cooked on the pizza steel, where it didn't appear this cooked. I'm wondering if cooking it this much would affect the taste in that way? This time, it tasted a little more bland than on the steel, and I'm certain the ingredients were the same. Regardless, I wouldn't kick this pizza out of bed. Pre-heated the grill on high for 10 minutes, landed the pizza, turned burner down to low for about 5 minutes. Ended up turning it off entirely because the top was starting to cook too much, and then I tried to kick it up to high to get some more browning on the crust-I'll watch it closer next time, but still happy with the results.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:09
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So, I ordered the Italian sourdough starter kits from Ed Wood,and started up the Ischia. After 24 hours, it was already going crazy, which is great, but just to be sure, it's supposed to smell like a slightly less bad sour milk, right? Like, it's not a completely offensive smell, but it's definitely not a GOOD smell. I assume that this is totally normal, and when combined as like 10% of a dough, then baked, it will taste like the sourdough that I'm used to.
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Aug 10, 2017 01:29
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Doom Rooster posted:So, I ordered the Italian sourdough starter kits from Ed Wood,and started up the Ischia. Yup, that's what starter smells like.
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Aug 10, 2017 01:56
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Oh mine smells delicious.
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Aug 10, 2017 02:34
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Doom Rooster posted:Yup, sure thing. The standard NP dough ratio is more or less: So I want to make this again, but freeze some of the dough so I don't have to make all the pizza at once. At what stage would you recommend freezing the balls?
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Aug 14, 2017 01:37
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I'd say right after balling. When you want to use one, put it in the fridge for 8ish hours, then pull it out maybe like 90 minutes before. Play around with it and let us know how it goes, I'd be really interested to see your results.
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Aug 14, 2017 01:41
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Doom Rooster posted:I'd say right after balling. When you want to use one, put it in the fridge for 8ish hours, then pull it out maybe like 90 minutes before. Play around with it and let us know how it goes, I'd be really interested to see your results. Great thanks! Another question... Is there anything stopping me from making the dough tonight, putting it in the fridge overnight, and then portioning it out to 9 oz portions tomorrow and then in the dough box for a few days?
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Aug 18, 2017 00:13
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Nope. That's how I used to do it every time. Comes out really well. I switched over to balling after 2-3 days cold batch fermenting, on the day of use though. I find the gluten to be less relaxed that way, so I get a little better rise in the oven. If it's more convenient for you to ball, then ferment for a couple days though, go for it. It'll still be great. Edit: Just try to get the balls formed and back in the fridge in a reasonable amount of time. You don't want the dough to warm up enough that the yeast kicks back into high gear, does its second rise already, and is blown by the time you pull it out and let it come up to temp to use. Doom Rooster fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 18, 2017 |
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Aug 18, 2017 19:53
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Doom Rooster posted:Nope. That's how I used to do it every time. Comes out really well. I switched over to balling after 2-3 days cold batch fermenting, on the day of use though. I find the gluten to be less relaxed that way, so I get a little better rise in the oven. Awesome thanks-I went ahead and made the dough last night and balled it this morning since I'll be dogsitting at my sisters all weekend and won't be home Sunday morning to ball the dough like I originally planned. Going to make 3 pizzas Sunday and freeze the rest for next week-I'll let you know how those come out!
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Aug 18, 2017 19:57
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So I got bored and started reading this thread again, and it got me to thinking. My dad doesn't grill anymore because it's gotten to be too hard on his knees, but he likes pizza and he does like to bake. Would a wood-fired or gas-fired pizza oven be a good gift for him, and if so, what kind?
I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 05:35
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:So I got bored and started reading this thread again, and it got me to thinking. My dad doesn't grill anymore because it's gotten to be too hard on his knees, but he likes pizza and he does like to bake. Would a wood-fired or gas-fired pizza oven be a good gift for him, and if so, what kind? What about a Weber kettle with a pizza stone and a tall chair from which he can grill without knee strain?
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Sep 11, 2017 12:41
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I really hate this thread. It makes me hungry as gently caress every time I read it, but people only post in it like once every few days.Ola posted:What about a Weber kettle with a pizza stone and a tall chair from which he can grill without knee strain? I mean yeah, there's stuff like the KettlePizza and the PizzaQue, but I'm wondering if there's anything out there that might be easier or make better pizza. Also my dad is interested in making a homemade pizza sometime in the near future, so I'm gonna need some advice from here around the time that happens. We don't have a stone or a steel and we can't afford to buy either right now, so... that.
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Sep 12, 2017 03:06
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:Also my dad is interested in making a homemade pizza sometime in the near future, so I'm gonna need some advice from here around the time that happens. We don't have a stone or a steel and we can't afford to buy either right now, so... that. Do you have a couple 9" round cake pans or cast iron skillets? There's a couple really great low effort pan pizza recipes out there. I've done the Serious Eats dough for the last few weeks rather than my typical NY style pies. http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/01/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe.html
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Sep 12, 2017 03:12
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sirbeefalot posted:Do you have a couple 9" round cake pans or cast iron skillets? There's a couple really great low effort pan pizza recipes out there. I've done the Serious Eats dough for the last few weeks rather than my typical NY style pies. I'll have to check my kitchen tomorrow and see. I think we have one cast iron skillet, but I don't know if it's 9 inches.
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Sep 12, 2017 03:43
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:I'll have to check my kitchen tomorrow and see. I think we have one cast iron skillet, but I don't know if it's 9 inches. That recipe would probably also work as a single larger pie in a rectangular pan, too.
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Sep 12, 2017 04:10
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:So I got bored and started reading this thread again, and it got me to thinking. My dad doesn't grill anymore because it's gotten to be too hard on his knees, but he likes pizza and he does like to bake. Would a wood-fired or gas-fired pizza oven be a good gift for him, and if so, what kind? You'd have to put the open upwards near shoulder height or else it might be even worse on his knees than grilling. I am have to squat a little when messing with pizzas in particular. It would probably be a nicer thing to find a way to raise his grill. I know my old Weber kettle is too low. My new one is a built-in that I plan to have at 36 inches. Contrast the grill's height with the kitchen counters inside and see how much your dad likes your counter height. Note that it would be fairly typical to have the pizza oven floor be much higher than a grilling floor. A rule of thumb is that you'd want it at elbow height normally, but that assumes doing that squat. Also note that standing upright then puts strain on the upper body because you're having to rely on them to take things in and out of the oven. That ain't a big deal for pizzas but if you have a really good oven that you're tempted to do lots of baking and roast in, then it'll become a problem. Now to self-aggrandize, I have another week for this oven to cure before I see how well it did. It's a 42" dome brick oven that I built this summer. Aesthetically it's not finished, but it can do its first full-temperature fire next Sunday. My first oven was a cob using pottery clay and pottery sand at my previous house. I missed it so much that I felt the need to build another one:  Clearly I'm in the pizza oven snob zone so take my own crap with a grain of salt, but my opinion on pizza oven selection is this priority: 0. Never get a small, cheap wood fired oven. 0. Do not look into large, heavy gas-fired ovens unless you want to pay for a pro to do it. The sealed up space of such ovens doesn't jibe well with a gas source and you need somebody that knows what they're doing to keep it from randomly bursting into flames from gas pooling off the ceiling. 1. A small, cheap gas-fired oven is probably fine. You can make up for some of the lack of refractory strength by cranking up the gas. 2. A large, heavy wood fired oven is awesome. I would generally recommend people try to do the pottery sand/clay cob oven if they have ~$800-$1200 to blow on concrete, cinder blocks, and such. A lot of our summer cooking completely shifted outside because we suddenly could bake in August without dying in the house.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:56
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That's dope, did you use the plans from that one site whose name escapes me right now?
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Oct 6, 2017 19:46
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Mikey Purp posted:That's dope, did you use the plans from that one site whose name escapes me right now? Probably. I have been active on Forno Bravo and did buy the plan PDF back in the day. The methodology has been refined over time though. The concrete part of the oven floor does not need to be so thick. I did make a variant of "the indispensable tool" to help assess arch curvature and suspend bricks as I laid upper courses. One major refinement was using a cutting jig to angle and bevel cut each brick so that they fit together in circles. This was a pain in the rear end and lead to a neighbor calling the cops on me two evenings from over 250 feet away with both my house and a stone wall between us. The sad thing about Forno Bravo is their forums are far less active now. I am not sure where everybody went--if they didn't just leave. It feels like less people are generally getting into big oven projects and are making do with the smaller little ovens that I see for sale more and more online. I tried searching around before getting into my outdoor kitchen project and could not find a place that was really hopping with pizza oven people. It is nice to have masons floating around to sneak in some tips.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:16
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That's super awesome, and I am super jealous. If I were planning on being in my current house for more than another 2-3 years, I would have built myself one. Please post pics once it's cured and you can make some pies.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:19
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I built a cob oven a couple of years ago, and there's a bit of a build thread in the DIY forum. looks ugly, but works well. Something to keep in mind is that there's kind of two operating heights - (un)loading and tending (viewing) height.
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Oct 7, 2017 13:16
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I normally use raw onions and peppers for toppings, but thinking about sauteing them a little this time. Good idea? They're gonna go under a generous amount of cheese.
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Oct 21, 2017 23:27
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Anything to remove moisture is a great idea, I can’t stand pepper water pizza.
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Oct 22, 2017 05:56
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I normally use raw onions and peppers for toppings, but thinking about sauteing them a little this time. Good idea? They're gonna go under a generous amount of cheese. I've started using pickled red onions instead of the raw kind. I like it. Caramelized onions are also nice.
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Oct 22, 2017 06:08
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unknown posted:I built a cob oven a couple of years ago, and there's a bit of a build thread in the DIY forum. looks ugly, but works well. FWIW it looks like my old cob oven performs quite similarly to this brick one. I'm kind of surprised that it isn't dramatically better. I would read stuff on Forno Bravo about these ovens holding their heat for four days. Mine's down to 225 Fahrenheit the morning after. When I inevitably move, what I think I'll do for oven #3 is build a cob dome with a brick landing; I need something more stable for mounting the flue and a front door. My original oven had huge problems at the mouth with the cob wanting to break down. OTOH the oven is in its long-term cure process and might get better than what I had before. On to another topic: I'm having some trouble getting really thin dough. I remembered just now that I had to roll it out way flatter than I wanted because just the act of lifting it up and putting on the peel would cause it to contract somewhat and thicken. I'm wondering though if somebody has a good recipe for a dough that tends to go thin really well. I would want to know all the specifics such as flour brand, any additional gluten thrown on top of it, and the weight of the dry ingredients. I know there is also some technique to it but I think I'm narrowing that down just fine. It's just that I lost my previous recipe so I'm bumbling around to make up for it.
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Oct 31, 2017 18:26
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