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toanoradian posted:Or go hog wild and combine scientific units lower than deci. Use "nanomated"! Micromated. Yoctomated? Facebook Aunt posted:It turns out everyone from Gallifrey has super jump ability because they evolved from tree frogs. Nobody else uses it because it's undignified. You try leaping buildings in a single bound wearing that getup Vinylshadow fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 12:14
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 UNIT: Assembled is the fourth volume of the UNIT series by Big Finish productions, which from memory was their first series released that explicitly used characters and settings from the Television Revival series. Unfortunately, it is also the worst volume so far, a mess of a story that suffers from a poorly conceived and executed villain, stakes that feel completely inconsequential, and some mostly contrived excuses to justify the inclusion of the classic series UNIT characters beyond just basic cameos. While the return of those characters is a welcome one, they're poorly serviced by the script they get, and their presence comes at the expense of other characters who have helped make two of the previous three volumes feel so strong.  As publican and former UNIT soldier John Benton is celebrating with old friends to mark his retirement from his pub to go on a retirement cruise with his wife, nearby Kate Stewart and Osgood are doing a standard evaluation of a Silurian base. Since the discovery of the Silurian race by UNIT and the Third Doctor back in the 70s (or was it the 80s?), UNIT has made a point of locating and keeping a close eye on the hibernating colonies, ready to take whatever action is necessary should they awaken. Under Kate's stewardship, the policy is to be as hands-off as possible while still researching them, with the idea that when they awaken diplomacy will be the order of the day. Unfortunately for her, this particular base was run by a notorious Silurian warmonger, who has masked the length of time he and a small cadre of loyal warriors have actually been awake. When the Silurians attack, Kate and Osgood escape to Benton's nearby pub where she'd been planning to make an appearance anyway. Benton is the man of the hour, but he is joined by Mike Yates, his former captain who also makes a late appearance to wish him well. Unfortunately the "budget" is already showing, as a storm warning has severely reduced the number of attendees and half of those who remain are complete strangers to the listeners... or at least this listener, maybe they were important characters in some licensed book back in the 80s/90s? A male and female former squadmate have stayed behind for a lock-in where they begin arguing over an apparently long-held crush the man had on the woman. The man has a go at Mike who he suspects as being a love rival for the (married!) woman, she leaves and that's when Kate and Osgood show up to the scene of one old man threatening another with a bar stool. Both these characters, whose names I do not recall at all, are quickly dispatched in a way that feels like it is meant to raise the stakes, but I had no investment in either despite the attempts to give them personality and history. That leaves Kate, Osgood, Yates and Benton to prepare to defend a siege on the bar by the Silurians, which involves a little bit of fun with some MacGyvered up traps and a brief cameo by the Third Doctor's old car, Bessie. The Silurians are... well, they're terrible. The leader, Jastrok, is apparently some kind of tactical genius/general who even the most hardcore military Silurians felt took things too far. Except... well, he's kinda incompetent, and so are his "hunters", who howl like wolves for some reason while chasing down humans and fall into incredibly basic traps. They're supposed to be Silurian supremacists, who hate humans as nothing more than "apes", but the attempt to generate any sense of racism/species-ism just falls flat because they're so one note. In the end, Benton stays behind as bait to allow the others to escape, but of course Kate isn't going to leave a man behind and returns to take a last stand with him... at which point the Silurians retreat as their base is destroyed by a UNIT soldier who was believed captured right at the start of the story. Of course Jastrok then gloats to his already reduced force of Hunters that this was all part of his plan and HE is the one who telepathically took control of the soldier and had him blow up the base and thousands of his own people to lull the humans into a false sense of security. Which is... a really loving stupid plan, they didn't even know they existed, they could have just left and gone off somewhere else to do what they wanted and the humans would have been none the wiser until they attacked!  Probably the strongest of the four episodes, this features Kate Stewart recruiting Jo Jones (Nee Grant) to make use of her environmentalist credentials AND her background with UNIT/The Doctor and various advanced technologies. Jo and Osgood join the heroic soldier who saved the day in the previous episode, Burmaster, to travel on a submarine to review an experimental tidal power generator. Joined by an insufferable female scientist who hates being saddled with them (feels right out of the Third Doctor era, she would have had him in a fantastic huff), but like Benton's old squadmates in the previous story she is quickly killed off and taken out of the story. Burmaster, under the control of Jastrok, hijacks the vessel, imprisons Jo and Osgood and sets course of an underwater base hiding a dark secret. The chemistry between Jo and Osgood is well handled. The latter is of course in awe of the former, who gives her some solid advice about not being scared to consider herself an equal and vital part of the team and not get overshadowed/relegated to a background role (a nice little commentary on her time on the show). The varied parts of Jo's background are used well, she even explains how she ended up studying lockpicking (it came first in the alphabet before the other course she was considering!) and her fervor when talking on environmental issues and her desire for peaceful and diplomatic solutions to problems feels very genuine. Upon reaching the base, they discover it was populated by "Sea Devils", cousins to the Silurians. The submarine opens fire on the base, awakening the inhabitants who prepare to return with force on the human vessels now approaching (UNIT have been tracking a signal generated by Jo and Osgood on the sly). Jo is able to reach the Chief Scientist and convince it that the humans are not to blame for the attack, but patsies for Jastrok's mad plans. The Scientist is skeptical but also knows Jastrok well and suspects he knows what he might be after - to his great shame he spearheaded the creation of near indestructible mutated sea creatures, with them Jastrok could wreak enormous havoc. Jo convinces him to trust in her while he takes the survivors of the attack and returns to hibernation, to wait out the situation and awaken later to the hope that Jastrok has been defeated and the humans are ready to negotiate peace. He represents the better half of the Silurians, part of the admirable effort the show has made throughout the years to give the race some depth, to acknowledge that you get different types of people/beliefs/desires within the larger group just like you would with humans. Jo prepares to escape in the submarine, though Burmaster - abandoned by Jastrok after freeing the sea creatures - has the same idea, but drowns in the effort while Jo is saved. Sadly Burmaster was confusingly written, he's supposed to be brainwashed but appears to have full control of his faculties AND demonstrates a nasty streak directed at the others (all women too, though that may just be a coincidence of the script) even when free of that. At least when Mike Yates was made a traitor in Invasion of the Dinosaurs he was a true believer and didn't actually change up his character at all. Burmaster I have no idea about.  With the Sea Creatures making for Britain and a whole lot of contrived writing is going on to explain away why they haven't been killed/captured/contained in the interim, this story is all "new" UNIT as Kate and Osgood travel to a Silurian base they suspect contains enormous research data and technology. They're hunted by one of Jastrok's hunters - Commander Tryska - who is seeking a device that will aid in Jastrok's plot. Kate and Osgood awaken the "guard dogs" of the base, raptors whose job is to attack anybody/anything that comes through. This leads to a bit of humor, as Kate continually, angrily insists that she is NOT going to kill a dinosaur today. Tryska has no such objection, taking on the raptors hand-to-claw as presumably part of some effort to sell how dangerous and effective a killer she is. Her goal is to find a device that will enhance a race memory of the humans fear of the Silurians from the days of pre-history. Getting hold of one, she uses it on Osgood and sends her fleeing in terror, while Kate calls in the reinforcements in the form of Josh Carter, the auton-enhanced soldier. This episode mostly feels like filler, there are a couple of important plot points - Tryska's ultimate fate is supposed to give motivation to her sister to hate the humans but she probably didn't need a push in that direction, and the fear inducing helmets are necessary for the ultimate resolution of the story - but they're floating in the midst of a whole lot of nothing. Josh and Tryska have a couple of skirmishes with both getting the upper hand at different points, and Josh is able to damage if not destroy the fear helmet. Meanwhile Osgood attempts to regain control of her faculties while reliving race memories of being cave-people hunted and taunted by the terrifying lizard-people. Kate's big concern is that the UK Government wants to use nuclear weapons on the sea creatures which are apparently immune to conventional weapons, but she wastes a lot of time in the process which only brings the threat closer. She's complaining about how quick people are to jump to a military solution but she's also not really doing or achieving much beyond vague hope when it comes to finding an alternative. In the end they don't find any information that would help them break the Silurians' control of the sea creatures, but make their escape from the base as Tryska attempts to prove herself to Jastrok, which costs her her life. Her sister Kalana finds her body and the damaged fear device, and pledges revenge against the humans she was already planning to kill or enslave regardless.  Here is where things really fell off the cliff, unfortunately. This episode is guilty of one of my big pet peeves, a story that enormously changes the playing field FOREVER while actually having zero impact on the world that the story inhabits, because it has to retain that sense of familiarity to the audience of being "our world, just with some sci-fi stuff happening behind the scenes". Jastrok and his sea creatures (including flying dinosaurs now) invade Britain, with the streets deserted and a state of emergency declared. Jastrok demands the immediate surrender of Britain's leaders, planning to use it as an example to the rest of the world to force their hand into capitulating to their demands for world domination. That's... that's a Saturday Morning Cartoon supervillain plan. That's loving stupid! Because Kate spent so long trying to find a way to break the Silurians' control over the sea creatures, she allowed them to get too far ahead of her and now she is trapped "behind enemy lines" and unable to return to UNIT command to spearhead the fight back against the Silurians. However Mike Yates, John Benton and Jo Jones are all present for a debrief of their respective engagements and so she comes up with the rather bizarre notion that they are best suited to be her eyes and ears on the ground and coordinate everything, thanks to their expertise with Silurians. That's... that's even stupider than Jastrok's plan! Don't get me wrong, there are some great character moments in amongst all that, particularly from Jo who takes it upon herself to do something incredibly noble but stupid, getting herself taken hostage in the process. But the so-called Battle for Britain feels anything but epic in scale, even when namedropping locations like Parliament or Westminster Abbey. Osgood's firsthand experience with the fear device has given her an idea, and she sets about putting it into play while Kate - whose entire reason for including Yates, Benton and Jo was that she wasn't there to run things - runs everything remotely from her ship via telecommunications. Kalana and Josh have their big fight which is supposed to feel like a big deal but is just kinda there, Jo denounces Jastrok as a fanatic who doesn't truly care about his own people, and then Kate returns as Osgood's plan comes good and they turn the Silurian's own devices and tactics against them. That part is good, but everything wraps in a fairly unsatisfactory way. There was never any sense of great stakes despite all of Britain and then the world supposedly being in danger. The public seems completely unaware that dinosaurs were roaming the streets or that a mad lizardman was making demands of world leaders, or that gunbattles were waged on the streets of London. There isn't even the faintly disturbing "let's just spike the water and make everybody forget!" excuse from the first volume, apparently the whole thing happened without anybody being any the wiser or the battle causing the slightest ripple. And that's that, it's over and... that's it? Final Thoughts: UNIT: Assembled isn't a particularly engaging story, doesn't have a particular engaging villain, the threat feels small-time and unimpressive no matter what the story says, and a chunk of the running time feels like filler. The return of Yates, Benton and Jo was a welcome one and it was enjoyable to hear them all, particularly Jo, but this isn't even a story that can rest on being a nostalgia act. Their presence takes away from the time for many of the supporting cast familiar from the first three volumes, and there is actually relatively little of old characters interacting with new characters, outside of the notable section of Jo and Osgood on the submarine. This volume feels like the idea for combining the old UNIT with the new came first, and then the actual story idea came later. After the stream of the Silenced volume, this was a disappointment. Happily, the next volume sounds like what this one should have been - four mostly standalone stories detailing adventures in the lives of the new UNIT.... including what sounds like a homage to Inferno. THAT I am excited for, sadly this particular volume was one that didn't really generate that same level of excitement and ended up living up to my fairly low expectations. A pity, but hopefully not the end of the world.
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Jul 27, 2017 13:10
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Last of the Time Lords. Why, oh why, did RTD give the ok to the CGI goblin Doctor? How could anyone think that looks good? Oh god his big wonky eyes. And, well, I could go on. The less said about Jesus Doctor at the end the better. But the Sound of Drums wasn't as bad as I remember. And the Toclafame are a genuinely good and creepy concept for a villain.
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Jul 27, 2017 13:42
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I believe in
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Jul 27, 2017 13:44
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marktheando posted:And the Toclafame are a genuinely good and creepy concept for a villain. Yes, the Cybermen are a genuinely good and creepy concept for a villain.
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Jul 27, 2017 13:49
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Dabir posted:Yes, the Cybermen are a genuinely good and creepy concept for a villain. Apart from both being converted humans, they aren't really similar. Cybermen don't have that paradoxical spherical child like future human angle. On to Voyage of the Damned. Often unfairly overlooked, it is definitely one of the worst ever episodes.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:02
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marktheando posted:Last of the Time Lords. Why, oh why, did RTD give the ok to the CGI goblin Doctor? How could anyone think that looks good? Oh god his big wonky eyes. I think they were better done in Singularity tbh
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Jul 27, 2017 14:04
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marktheando posted:Apart from both being converted humans, they aren't really similar. Cybermen don't have that paradoxical spherical child like future human angle. It's terrible. But it did give us screen time for Kylie, as well as that memorable Clive Swift interview with DWM.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:05
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marktheando posted:Last of the Time Lords. Why, oh why, did RTD give the ok to the CGI goblin Doctor? How could anyone think that looks good? Oh god his big wonky eyes. Tinkerbell Jesus is better than The Arya And Malcolm Tucker Half Hour Philosophy Wank. 
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Jul 27, 2017 14:07
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Fil5000 posted:It's terrible. But it did give us screen time for Kylie, as well as that memorable Clive Swift interview with DWM. That interview is so much more entertaining than the actual episode. Aaah I forgot Wilf is in it!
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Jul 27, 2017 14:14
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marktheando posted:That interview is so much more entertaining than the actual episode. The first time I saw that interview was when a friend emailed it me in a text file titled "cliveswiftisacunt.txt"
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Jul 27, 2017 14:16
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I wouldn't go as far as saying Last Of The Time Lords is better than, well, any given Capaldi episode, but I like the whole "clap your hands if you believe" thing. It's almost Moffat-like, where the story reaches out from the page to save the day. The revelation of what the Toclafane are was cool also. I'd more or less be willing to watch Voyage Of The Damned again for Max Capricorn, who's delightfully petty as a villain. And the moment when the Doctor is held aloft by two angel robots was very funny, although I forget if it was meant to be.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:19
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Can't find the full thing but here is part of his interview. https://drwhointerviews.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/clive-swift-2008/
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Jul 27, 2017 14:24
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At the time I had some problems with Rusty Davis's writing, but it's grown on me over the years. I especially appreciate Eccleston's performance; its a shame he didn't really want to stick around because while Tennant is a good actor and did his material well, I don't think he really fit what the doctor had been as well as Eccleston. I guess it's always been the rule that each actor and era has a different take on things, so that's fine. Plus he got to hang out with the Best Companion, Donna Noble!
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Jul 27, 2017 14:26
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I'm never less than intrigued by the tardis wiki
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Jul 27, 2017 14:28
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2house2fly posted:I wouldn't go as far as saying Last Of The Time Lords is better than, well, any given Capaldi episode, but I like the whole "clap your hands if you believe" thing. It's almost Moffat-like, where the story reaches out from the page to save the day. The revelation of what the Toclafane are was cool also. "And I should know, because…" "My name is Max *twing!*" "It really does that?  "
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Jul 27, 2017 14:29
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Plavski posted:I'm never less than intrigued by the tardis wiki All I can say is that after a couple years of people being in love with the Doctor it was refreshing to have someone who was just in love with Pringles
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Jul 27, 2017 14:30
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Being repeatedly exposed to all of Moffat's flaws over the years has made me appreciate RTD more too. Midshipman Frame has got some huge ears.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:31
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Voyage of the Damned is another one of those ultra-camp romps which is brilliant if you're in a good mood. I mean, the whole Titanic-falling-on-Buckingham-Palace thing is completely ridiculous, but Tennant does sell it incredible well with his "Oh, for gently caress's sake" face.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:37
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The Harvest: Second time listening to it. I enjoy Hex a lot, and I also enjoy the Doctor's utter exasperation at the way he sensibly curls up into a little ball every time something weird happens. As Cybermen plans go, "get the humans to convert themselves" has a certain amount of novelty, and I enjoy the Cyberleader's wonder at having emotions and physical sensations again a lot. Human Resources: Hahahahaha, I love it. I haven't really listened to the Eighth Doctor Adventures line before, so a lot of the revelations about Lucie were lost on me, but okay, quite often I find that stories with a big clever high concept (weaponized corporate culture in this case) try to get by on just having a big clever high concept and the whole exercise just ends up feeling a bit hollow in the end. (Some of Robert Shearman's work hits me this way, for example. Not all, but some.) I bring that up because Human Resources isn't that way at all. The characterization and storytelling is up to par with any of the best stories, and that makes all the difference. And also, while I knew going in that the Cybermen were involved, how they were involved was a genuine surprise, and a pleasant one. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances: Not a Cybermen story at all, but it is a story about out of control technology trying to preserve life at any cost and doing a generally rubbish job of it. It's also the best Ninth Doctor story by a considerable margin, so any excuse to watch it, really.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:49
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docbeard posted:The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances: Not a Cybermen story at all, but it is a story about out of control technology trying to preserve life at any cost and doing a generally rubbish job of it. It's also the best Ninth Doctor story by a considerable margin, so any excuse to watch it, really. having just rewatched this season I disagree with this. Dalek is also very good.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:53
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Also I'm taking a moment to reflect on how tasteless the title is. For those who don't know, the original book/movie Voyage of the Damned was the true story of a ship of Jewish refugees that went from port to port across Europe and America being turned away, eventually having to return to Nazi Germany where most of them died in concentration camps.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:55
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CommonShore posted:having just rewatched this season I disagree with this. Dalek is also very good. Yeah, Dalek is really good. In fact it's so good that Moffat stole a bunch of moments from it for a Capaldi episode. "You are a good Dalek," for example, is originally from the Eccleston one.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:59
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Dalek is the episode that sold me on the revived series. It's a shame most of the subsequent Dalek episodes have been various shades of mediocre.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:04
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corn in the bible posted:Yeah, Dalek is really good. In fact it's so good that Moffat stole a bunch of moments from it for a Capaldi episode. "You are a good Dalek," for example, is originally from the Eccleston one. To be fair, this is an intentional reference and callback. The line in Dalek is "You would make a good Dalek." The line in Into the Dalek, which takes place during Capaldi's "Who am in this incarnation?" regeneration crisis, is "You are a good Dalek," which is supposed to come off as more horrific. I don't think it lands, but it's supposed to build off the earlier episode.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:19
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Stabbatical posted:Can't find the full thing but here is part of his interview. You'd be like that too if you were doomed to have strangers call you "Rich-ard!" every day for the rest of your life.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:29
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Action Jacktion posted:You'd be like that too if you were doomed to have strangers call you "Rich-ard!" every day for the rest of your life. I wish no one mentioned Keeping Up Appearances and instead only talked to him about Jobel. Edit: Or just asked him about Henry from Drop the Dead Donkey.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:31
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Conversation has reminded me that this did in fact happen. DARLEKS HAVE NO CONCEPT OF ELEGANCE. This is obvious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN19oHTv_Vg
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Jul 27, 2017 15:32
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Bicyclops posted:To be fair, this is an intentional reference and callback. The line in Dalek is "You would make a good Dalek." The line in Into the Dalek, which takes place during Capaldi's "Who am in this incarnation?" regeneration crisis, is "You are a good Dalek," which is supposed to come off as more horrific. I don't think it lands, but it's supposed to build off the earlier episode. The big problem really is, with it, that it is pretty unearned and doesn't carry the same kind of weight and impact that the original did. But yeah it's super intentional and they built up to it. It just doesn't work as well.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:32
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Thinking about The Empty Child, it's maybe the only time where Moffat's record-skipping repeated phrases pay off in "yes, I am your mummy." In later episodes, "don't blink" is just good advice, "who turned out the lights" doesn't go anywhere, "the human residence will be incinerated" just has that twist where it turns out to mean the planet and not a house, "silence will fall" I guess does eventually pay off as the Doctor's regeneration is incredibly noisy... but that's a bit tenuous. Uhh I think he basically stopped doing them after that. I dont remember any repeated phrases in series 6 and 7, it all started being nursery rhymes then. The imitating in The Pilot probably counts, and that has a nice little payoff too.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:41
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Burkion posted:The big problem really is, with it, that it is pretty unearned and doesn't carry the same kind of weight and impact that the original did. It also has less payoff, I think, because there's not really much potential for character growth in a Moffat series. He seems to prefer shocking revelations to actual characters changing or developing based on things that happen during the show itself (for the most obvious example of this see anything related to River Song) What happens in Dalek has a very clear result on what happens later in the rest of the season, and on the season finale, and Eccleston seems genuinely upset about it and has to deal with that when he later has to chance to kill all the Daleks a second time. Plus, in the end, Eccleston is totally up for committing genocide a second time so it's silly to then say later oh well Peter Capaldi Doctor YOU are the angry one
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Jul 27, 2017 15:45
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One detail I remember about "Voyage of the Damned" was that Kylie Minogue was announced as "Astrid Peth" and everyone noted that "Astrid" is an anagram of "TARDIS" while "Peth" is apparently Welsh for "Part", so obviously she was going to be revealed as either the personification of part of / the TARDIS.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:48
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Wait, does that mean Gaiman called his version Idris because she's the TARDIS' id? That kind of makes sense, seeing as she seems to be just purely operating on that level for much of the story.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:56
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learnincurve posted:Conversation has reminded me that this did in fact happen. The Cybermen and Daleks are both so gloriously bitchy in that scene.
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Jul 27, 2017 16:22
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"Yᴏᴜ ᴡᴏᴜʟᴅ ᴅᴇsᴛʀᴏʏ ᴛʜᴇ Cʏʙᴇʀᴍᴇɴ ᴡɪᴛʜ ғᴏᴜʀ Dᴀʟᴇᴋs?" "WE WOULD DESTROY THE CYBERMEN WITH ONE DA-LEK!"
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Jul 27, 2017 17:00
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howe_sam posted:The Cybermen and Daleks are both so gloriously bitchy in that scene. I didn't like the cartoonist Cyberman weapon sound effects. The less said about "delete delete" the better.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:11
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Sad King Billy posted:I didn't like the cartoonist Cyberman weapon sound effects. The less said about "delete delete" the better. The deflection sound effect is like 50's Ray Gun #3 from a $2 My First Sound Effects collection. It's awful, but then the sound production in general was terrible during RTD's era. The order of the day was to just cover everything in the thick, syrupy soup of Murray Gold's terribly on-the-nose bombastic shite, and for sound effects, well just anything you find on your Casio keyboards SFX preset will be fine.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:14
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The show's sound editing is still terrible.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:17
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One thing I'll say for Moffat's run compared to RTD's is that I haven't noticed Murray Gold's music to anywhere near the same extent, which is at least an improvement. And when I did find myself paying attention to it, it was in a "oh, that's quite a nice understated synth piece" way and not "oh god somebody make him shut up please". That said, it'd be a good time to get somebody else to do the music now, I think.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:23
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Agreed. I think the mixing is also better now, so when he's around he doesn't crush the scene into dirt with his frenetic whimsy.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:33
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