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Zand isn't elitist I am yall suck get gud or die tryin
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Jul 30, 2017 23:05
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Reiley posted:Who is the "cheapest" fighting game character archetype? spammers. Le sigh
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Jul 30, 2017 23:20
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I probably didn't get my point across properly, but it wasn't about me trying to call fighting games bad about any of the things I mentioned (at least, not intentionally), just that they were things that I call barriers for new and inexperienced players, and when Sirlin says "I'm breaking down the barriers to make the gateway game" then I'm going to call him out on it if the barriers are just as big as ever, or if he half-asses the solution. Basically, there was nothing in fantasy strike that isn't done better by guilty gear's tutorials, just it doesn't have anyone claiming "gateway game". Like I brought up the fighter archetypes because he just plops those down without explanation, and expects the new player to stop and look it up, or ask their friend on the couch if there is one. But that information is best learned by just picking a character and seeing them in action rather than "oh, well this guy is this archetype", because the new guy doesn't know the archetypes by name. my point on that was if you have a friend who never played a fighting game before with you on your couch, would you say "character A is a zoner" or would you say "character A throws projectiles/uses knockback moves to control the field and maintain a certain distance"? Because the game does the first, when the 2nd is much closer to what the new player actually needs to know, and most people wouldn't and couldn't give their new friend on the couch a list of archetypes crosschecked by how well a character fits into them, or wait for the friend to google it.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:26
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Sorbocules posted:I probably didn't get my point across properly, but it wasn't about me trying to call fighting games bad about any of the things I mentioned (at least, not intentionally), just that they were things that I call barriers for new and inexperienced players, and when Sirlin says "I'm breaking down the barriers to make the gateway game" then I'm going to call him out on it if the barriers are just as big as ever, or if he half-asses the solution. Basically, there was nothing in fantasy strike that isn't done better by guilty gear's tutorials, just it doesn't have anyone claiming "gateway game". big if true
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Jul 30, 2017 23:28
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Sorbocules posted:I probably didn't get my point across properly, but it wasn't about me trying to call fighting games bad about any of the things I mentioned (at least, not intentionally), just that they were things that I call barriers for new and inexperienced players, and when Sirlin says "I'm breaking down the barriers to make the gateway game" then I'm going to call him out on it if the barriers are just as big as ever, or if he half-asses the solution. Basically, there was nothing in fantasy strike that isn't done better by guilty gear's tutorials, just it doesn't have anyone claiming "gateway game". they ccould google it on their phone you schween.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:34
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doesn't Fantasy Strike straight up tell you "this is what every single move does" when you press a button while highlighting a character, including a "spam the poo poo out of this" notice for some of them? that seems like a pretty decent start for explaining what characters do for a pre-alpha game.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:34
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gah! forgot mobile keyboards are full of finger puzzles. apologies
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Jul 30, 2017 23:35
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The deluxe package includes a physical copy of Fantasy Strike, two (2) premium Hori Fighting Commander Pro controllers and a personal visit from David Sirlin himself, who will helpfully explain in great depth the psychology of man to man combat while hitting you successfully in sequence with a single move. Then, and only then, will the greenhorn player truly understand what it is to play fighting games.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:38
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Reiley posted:The deluxe package includes a physical copy of Fantasy Strike, two (2) premium Hori Fighting Commander Pro controllers and a personal visit from David Sirlin himself, who will helpfully explain in great depth the psychology of man to man combat while hitting you successfully in sequence with a single move. Then, and only then, will the greenhorn player truly understand what it is to play fighting games. lol
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Jul 30, 2017 23:38
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The real finger puzzles were in your brain all along.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:42
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What if they're new to vidja games? How are they going to know that button presses correspond with things happening on screen?
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Jul 30, 2017 23:52
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Countblanc posted:doesn't Fantasy Strike straight up tell you "this is what every single move does" when you press a button while highlighting a character, including a "spam the poo poo out of this" notice for some of them? that seems like a pretty decent start for explaining what characters do for a pre-alpha game. Yeah, that's a cool thing the game does, it lets you know "USE THIS TO KEEP PEOPLE OFF THE AIR" or "THIS IS SAFE, BUT THE OTHER OPTIONS AREN'T".
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Jul 30, 2017 23:57
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Sorbocules posted:I probably didn't get my point across properly, but it wasn't about me trying to call fighting games bad about any of the things I mentioned (at least, not intentionally), just that they were things that I call barriers for new and inexperienced players, and when Sirlin says "I'm breaking down the barriers to make the gateway game" then I'm going to call him out on it if the barriers are just as big as ever, or if he half-asses the solution. Basically, there was nothing in fantasy strike that isn't done better by guilty gear's tutorials, just it doesn't have anyone claiming "gateway game". If you have a friend who has never played a fighting game on the couch, they would glean just as much knowledge from "This character is a zoner" as they would from "This character controls the field and maintains distance" because they have no idea how to do that. Explaining terms is not the problem with fighting games. A new player doesn't need to pick a character based on how to optimally play them, they need to pick a character that looks cool and feels fun to play to them, regardless of whether or not they're playing them "correctly." If they've played fighting games before then they can worry about how to play a character right, but then they don't need explaining what zoning is. Definitions are not what is difficult about starting fighting games lol
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Jul 31, 2017 00:03
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Does Fantasy Strike have characters that look cool?
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Jul 31, 2017 00:08
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Does Fantasy Strike have characters that look cool? no, cool characters are one of the problems Sirlin is trying to fix in fgs
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Jul 31, 2017 00:09
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DoA5 any good on PC? It has freaking awful reviews.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:14
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I do think the explosion of YouTube tutorial videos and competition VODs has been more helpful in making fighting games more accessible than anything an individual game has done. It doesn't matter how complicated or obscure a game mechanic is as long as someone is out there to explain it clearly, in the game or outside. Fighting games are much better on that front compared to, say, sports games
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Jul 31, 2017 00:29
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If Sirlin insists on condescending to people then he should actually just condescend to them and not half-rear end it.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:38
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The biggest issue with lovely players is usually they're interested but have no one equally lovely to grind the necessary 100 hours wrh before they can fight randos and actually enjoy it
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Jul 31, 2017 00:45
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Almost every good fg player i know had people of equal skill to learn the game with bc it was mutuallu enjoyable as they learned stuff without thinking about it too hard
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Jul 31, 2017 00:47
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Ulio posted:DoA5 any good on PC? It has freaking awful reviews. Do you like huge tits and slightly worse Tekken?
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Jul 31, 2017 00:47
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Most other competitive mp games you have someone to play and learn with. In fgs, you basically need a sparring partner to achieve that level of engagement
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Jul 31, 2017 00:50
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im just here loling at 'grapplers get in, so what do rushdown charcaters do???'
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Jul 31, 2017 00:51
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Learning basic inputd isn't fun inherently, punchijg the poo poo out of your friend is. If you do that enough, youll have learned basic inputs without realizing it. Zand insists that u must be a baby for not wanting to do the unfun thing not realizing most ppl skipped that step without realizing it
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Jul 31, 2017 00:54
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anime was right posted:Almost every good fg player i know had people of equal skill to learn the game with bc it was mutuallu enjoyable as they learned stuff without thinking about it too hard I learned the genre by jumping into the shark pool and fighting people who were better than me and losing over and over and over, but I don't know that I'd have the mental fortitude to do it again from scratch, honestly. I was a very stubborn teenager with infinite time on my hands and I hadn't yet been made soft by the proliferation of matchmaking services. The thing is that the playerbase for a competitive game dies from the bottom up, especially without matchmaking. If your game doesn't have structures in place to give bad players who are never going to be anything but bad a place in the ecosystem, they're gonna quit, and then their old position is occupied by the people who used to get by by beating them and the process repeats itself until you have Skullgirls' quick match mode populated by the same eight people who all know they're gonna see each other at Evo. There are things you can do to slow this down but they're either psychologically manipulative (unlocks, rewards, designing your game to look, sound, and feel like a slot machine) or require a large initial population to function (heavily stratified matchmaking) which fighting games don't have because of their huge initial barrier to entry.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:54
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Also it's ok to realize: hey, fgs aren't for me
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Jul 31, 2017 00:57
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Sorbocules posted:I probably didn't get my point across properly, but it wasn't about me trying to call fighting games bad about any of the things I mentioned (at least, not intentionally), just that they were things that I call barriers for new and inexperienced players, and when Sirlin says "I'm breaking down the barriers to make the gateway game" then I'm going to call him out on it if the barriers are just as big as ever, or if he half-asses the solution. Basically, there was nothing in fantasy strike that isn't done better by guilty gear's tutorials, just it doesn't have anyone claiming "gateway game". For example: fgs probably aren't for you
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Jul 31, 2017 00:58
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I learned fgs by playing Blinn from here who was a lot better than me but didn't mind me endlessly whining and it took like months before I won a single game or something. What I'm saying is that fgs require needless levels of stubbornness
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Jul 31, 2017 00:59
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anime was right posted:For example: fgs probably aren't for you Eh, that's cuntish, dude said he was gonna post from the perspective of the "newbie" Sirlin was trying to design around and he also mentioned he went after the info too.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:00
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Ulio posted:DoA5 any good on PC? It has freaking awful reviews. It's alright The bad reviews are about the like $10,000 worth of dlc it has
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Jul 31, 2017 01:00
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anime was right posted:Almost every good fg player i know had people of equal skill to learn the game with bc it was mutuallu enjoyable as they learned stuff without thinking about it too hard I wonder what it was like in the old days where you had to either luck out in having a friend who was into fighting games too or that you had enough quarters for the arcade and that the kids hogging the machines wouldn't destroy you in 20 seconds while calling you a bitch
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Jul 31, 2017 01:01
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anime was right posted:The biggest issue with lovely players is usually they're interested but have no one equally lovely to grind the necessary 100 hours wrh before they can fight randos and actually enjoy it I mean I'm not "good" but I've been playing these games "seriously" for a couple of years now and I started mostly grinding out KoFXIII matches long after all of the bad players left. It's not so bad. You just need someone to play with, they don't necessarily have to be on your level, just someone patient to help you learn. I think I had a <13% win ratio after grinding it out for a year; it's a personal thing and people will try to list excuses, and chief among them is "there's nobody on my level"
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Jul 31, 2017 01:09
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inptus are the most fun part of fgs for me. love rolling that stick backwards.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:11
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I wonder what it was like in the old days where you had to either luck out in having a friend who was into fighting games too or that you had enough quarters for the arcade and that the kids hogging the machines wouldn't destroy you in 20 seconds while calling you a bitch I never had a single friend into the game or arcade with fighting game players around, even when I lived in relatively big cities, so I can only assume you either played in THE spot or you didn't know how to do poo poo until you played in THE spot. Internet probably bridged the gap a bit in the 00's, but from anedoctal evidence it's not like you went to your local arcade and everyone was AMAZING and you died. In fact it's probably harder to go online and play the random ranked scrub, if my before and early SF4 experiences told me anything.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:12
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I learned how to play fighting games by learning how to do inputs in old SNK games on a keyboard on MAME when I was in high school and then getting owned a bunch in Super Turbo Super Turbo is a pretty good game to help you realize that doing huge combos is not really a huge priority if you are not a great player
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Jul 31, 2017 01:15
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you could play melty blood because combos in that game are 2a2a2b2c6cj.a.j.b.j.c.airthrow
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Jul 31, 2017 01:18
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anime was right posted:Almost every good fg player i know had people of equal skill to learn the game with bc it was mutuallu enjoyable as they learned stuff without thinking about it too hard i just got my poo poo pushed in for several years nonstop.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:45
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the faster you accept that youll start as the dumb bitch that always goes 0-2 and nobody remembers, the faster youll improve.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:48
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I showed my brother Fantasy Strike a few hours ago. He always says he wants to get into fighting games but doesn't want to put in the time to learn the inputs and stuff. After playing Fantasy Strike, he said he liked it, but still thought the way other fighting games do stuff with inputs is cool and fun. It also didn't really lessen our gap. I still beat him more or less as many times as I do in Street Fighter V.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:06
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have you tried gundam battle assault 2
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Jul 31, 2017 06:08
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