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TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012

Skandranon posted:

The inverted pyramid looks neat, but you sacrifice a wall trap.

It did just give me an idea for a pattern to keep mobs looping around while walking headfirst into wall darts... hmmm....

code:
           \ < ramp to angle them away and start the cycle over again
           | < wall electric thing
husk->  _ _| < wall darts 
        ^ ^ spring up trap
        | spikes of some sort

The electric trap will never hit anything. Traps have an arming delay so you can't launcher mobs past a wall of death.

EDIT: Actually, the game says arming delay is something different. It's worth testing then.

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Equate
Nov 11, 2011

What will work though, is pushing them on different levels, then up higher.. that I have done before.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

TheBlandName posted:

The electric trap will never hit anything. Traps have an arming delay so you can't launcher mobs past a wall of death.

EDIT: Actually, the game says arming delay is something different. It's worth testing then.

I think it should work, I've seen traps where a husk gets shot up, then a wall trap fires and shoves them over. The real trick is if they'll go high enough to be pushed back 1 square, and land on the spikes to repeat the process.

Malcolm Excellent
May 20, 2007

Buglord
I'm just about to 3 star my Bearcat autoshotty.. thing OWNS!

I'd recommend it big time.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Malcolm Excellent posted:

I'm just about to 3 star my Bearcat autoshotty.. thing OWNS!

I'd recommend it big time.
Yeah, I usually hate shotguns, but this is one of my only legendaries and I have no regrets.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

On the shotgun front, I just pulled an epic Shredder from a llama. I love the idea of a longer range shotgun, anyone have experience with them before I start grinding for experience and dumping it in there?

Equate
Nov 11, 2011

Malcolm Excellent posted:

I'm just about to 3 star my Bearcat autoshotty.. thing OWNS!

I'd recommend it big time.

Careful, the 3 star requires canney level materials.. just fyi

Bussamove posted:

On the shotgun front, I just pulled an epic Shredder from a llama. I love the idea of a longer range shotgun, anyone have experience with them before I start grinding for experience and dumping it in there?

the long range shotgun is a blast

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Equate posted:

the long range shotgun is a blast

I second this, I love it quite a bit, I wish mine was legendary, would use it for almost everything, but just got my Nocturno to level 20, need to try that first.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012
Going back to base chat for a moment. This is your reminder that pyramids, while stylish, were only good because of an AI exploit that has since been patched. Don't give husks a route up to your roof unless you've got layered, upgraded roofs and foot-pathways between them to repair everything. Actually, that sounds like a lot of wasted materials. Don't build pyramids unless you're overleveled for the content.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Counterpoint: Build nothing but pyramids as monuments to your new god, the storm Lars' van.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012

Bussamove posted:

Counterpoint: Build nothing but pyramids as monuments to your new god, the storm Lars' van.

If you're over-leveled and religious you may build pyramids. If you religious but not over-leveled the van will forgive a little effectiveness as you grow stronger. The storm never forgives. Not even the sin of piety. Best to build nothing at all in that case.

EDIT: Clicky. There's nothing quite like when the game disagrees strongly with your choice of next amplifier placement. (Valid choices are blue shadowed amplifiers.) Yes I know that amplifier is going to have husks dropping from the cliff above. So will the only valid "choice" I have of amplifier locations.

TheBlandName fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Aug 1, 2017

Great Beer
Jul 5, 2004

I build two layers of squares, sometimes with spikes if I remember to build them, then shoot all the zombies with my guns. Seems to work pretty well

Campbell
Jun 7, 2000
Building is fun - learning to re-route zombies is more fun.

Having pubbies freak out when you build a sandwich wall and start demolishing it is p annoying.

M2tt
Dec 23, 2000
Forum Veteran

Equate posted:

Careful, the 3 star requires canney level materials.. just fyi


the long range shotgun is a blast

T3 mats are available in 34+ plankerton.

sushibandit
Feb 12, 2009

M2tt posted:

T3 mats are available in 34+ plankerton.

Can confirm this. Was loving around in a rank 40 match on my rank 26 looking for malachite and found an ore vein. Not that it matters because even if you 3star your weapons they're locked to the level 20 stats until you're at the 3rd skill tree.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012
Huh. Did anyone else know that the different materials repair at different speeds? How about that tier 3 versions of stone and metal repair slower than the tier 2 versions? Tier 3 metal actually repairs slower than the tier 1 version. At my current repair rates (+90%), tier 3 metal heals 7 HP every tick while tier 3 wood heals an astounding 20 HP every tick.

EDIT: So far all my testing is on low walls. Hopefully building shape doesn't change things up too crazily.

Tei
Feb 19, 2011

Skandranon posted:

The higher level ones shoot them higher up... supposedly. Need to test.

I'd also like to try a carnival strongman trap

code:
                  _
                >| |< 
                >| |< 
                >| |< electric wall traps
husk ->           _|
		  ^ floor launcher

I don't think anything complicate is going to work in this game. Is a spiritual successor to Orcs must die, so most of the killing is supposed to be done by the players. The husk are randomized, some of them work on different parameters. Like some use the logical route, but a few of them have crazy ideas to them. Traps have a number of charges. Witches may be destroying some part of your base that is not even easy to reach to you. The most dangerous monster for your base is some witches that separate from the main group, and fire at your base from a hole somewhere you can't see.

In am interested in pyramids, they look good and efective.

Tei fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Aug 1, 2017

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Build pyramid around objective, then build box around objective, then build bigger pyramid around objective.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Tei posted:

I don't think anything complicate is going to work in this game. Is a spiritual successor to Orcs must die, so most of the killing is supposed to be done by the players. The husk are randomized, some of them work on different parameters. Like some use the logical route, but a few of them have crazy ideas to them. Traps have a number of charges. Witches may be destroying some part of your base that is not even easy to reach to you. The most dangerous monster for your base is some witches that separate from the main group, and fire at your base from a hole somewhere you can't see.

In am interested in pyramids, they look good and efective.

Whaa? Scoring high in OMD was all about scoring bonuses by having complicated traps. You wanted to kill orcs with as many status effects as possible. I understand the purpose of the players, to deal with an unpredictable enemy, but I see no reason complicated traps would not work. If Husks and Huskies can be dealt with largely by traps, the players can be much more free to handle the exceptions. The traps I outlined above, while possibly costly to build and re-arm don't suffer from the randomized aspect. You could build a wall of carny traps 5 wide, and be relatively safe in knowing that the husks will filter into one of them.

Pyramids are good, even if they do NOT ruin AI pathing anymore, they are still an excellent defensive platform as they allow easy retreating while the husks get caught up on border walls. You also get the best firing solution available when firing down a pyramid, with a greater chance of headshots without husks able to hide behind anything.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
Last time I checked with the pathing as it is, if you reinforce the sloped walls of a pyramid to be stronger than the roof, they'll still walk up it and start banging on the roof (and get murdered by any floor traps there).

Not a perfect solution, but still a decent last line of defense for the reasons above.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

So, when talking about building a pyramid you mean just reinforced stairs forming a single pyramid around the objective? Are stairs any less durable than walls? Where do you put the traps then if they're walking up the side of the pyramid?

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

explosivo posted:

So, when talking about building a pyramid you mean just reinforced stairs forming a single pyramid around the objective? Are stairs any less durable than walls? Where do you put the traps then if they're walking up the side of the pyramid?

Stairs can form the ramps, you need to use roofs for the corners. You can also use roofs for the ramps. They have identical strengths. Only difference is cosmetic.

It's not just a pyramid, you want to use 1 high walls at the base. Here's a simple one. You stand on the top, and husks run up to and then start attacking the mini-walls (i). You shoot down and hit them in the head. You can have both a floor trap and a wall trap at the bottom, taking out the husks as you shoot them.

code:
      _
     / \
___i/   \i___
You can also stagger the pyramid like so, giving multiple layers of traps/walls, but this significantly expands the base of your pyramid so might not work for small areas. If you are upgrading your defenses, a single wall should be sufficient, unless you are soloing.

code:
        _
     _i/ \i_
___i/       \i___

Skandranon fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 1, 2017

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
So if I downloaded the free version of Fortnite on PSN, they'd let me download it, but not let me play it until next year or when I buy the Founder's Pack? Isn't that...super not cool?

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

explosivo posted:

So, when talking about building a pyramid you mean just reinforced stairs forming a single pyramid around the objective? Are stairs any less durable than walls? Where do you put the traps then if they're walking up the side of the pyramid?
I don't know where I saw the idea for it, but my basic atlas defense for a while is just stairs leading up 3 of the sides of the atlas, corner slopes at the corners, and a box jutting out from one side so you can put a door on it (ideally facing away from where the husks are coming from). Then you ceiling it off and put a floor trap directly above the atlas, put some supports up so you can put a ceiling trap above that and you're done.

Sorry, I'm at work or I'd build one and post an example.

Anyway, I'd definitely noticed that the husks have started attacking the slopes instead of running up to the top recently. But I'm 90% sure that if you reinforce the slopes, stairs and walls while leaving the ceiling normal they will run up to the top again.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

ImpactVector posted:

I don't know where I saw the idea for it, but my basic atlas defense for a while is just stairs leading up 3 of the sides of the atlas, corner slopes at the corners, and a box jutting out from one side so you can put a door on it (ideally facing away from where the husks are coming from). Then you ceiling it off and put a floor trap directly above the atlas, put some supports up so you can put a ceiling trap above that and you're done.

Sorry, I'm at work or I'd build one and post an example.

Anyway, I'd definitely noticed that the husks have started attacking the slopes instead of running up to the top recently. But I'm 90% sure that if you reinforce the slopes, stairs and walls while leaving the ceiling normal they will run up to the top again.

You don't even really need the door, as you can edit the corner pieces to let you walk in, activate the atlas, then re-edit to close it again. I saw this with some pubbies, posted a screenshot in Discord, and did this with some Goons once or twice. Haven't done it lately, but would not be hard to further reinforce to make them walk up again, making the ceiling the weakest point.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Bogart posted:

So if I downloaded the free version of Fortnite on PSN, they'd let me download it, but not let me play it until next year or when I buy the Founder's Pack? Isn't that...super not cool?

Sounds like an error? It goes F2P next year, right now you have to pay money to play.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Skandranon posted:

You don't even really need the door, as you can edit the corner pieces to let you walk in, activate the atlas, then re-edit to close it again. I saw this with some pubbies, posted a screenshot in Discord, and did this with some Goons once or twice. Haven't done it lately, but would not be hard to further reinforce to make them walk up again, making the ceiling the weakest point.
That's probably where I saw it then. Looked back through the thread and didn't see it, so figured it must have been Discord or a random Reddit post.

And yeah, the reinforced slopes are the key. My plank base is a 5x5 pyramid, and reinforcing them for defense 2 made them run up it and beat on the ceiling this weekend.

You probably wouldn't be able to get away with a ring of low walls around the edge of the top though. They'd likely decide to beat on the slopes again.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

Oh wow, that pyramid stuff actually makes a whole lot of sense. Might have to try that out tonight!

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

There is a fun game in Fortnite but it seems burried under 50 different systems that only exist for monetization.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012
code:
Husks break in here.
     v  _
     _i/ \i_
___i/       \i___
That's an expensive construction for a single trap (that you have to place 25 times!) and one and one third walls worth of defense. That's a 7x7 structure. It requires 890 resources for a level 1 version. Or 5,340 to reinforce everything to level 3. (Literally not counting the floor traps around your base because they're not reliant on the pyramid to work.)

By comparison, a conventional bunker with roof, and a surrounding ring of low walls will require 460 resources for a level 1 version. 90 of those resources will be low priority roof pieces. So a level 3 version will cost 2,220 resources, plus 90 for a level 1 roof. If you're really worried about your roof you can double layer it with level 1s, for a total cost of 2,400 resources. Still coming in at 1/2 cost compared to the pyramid.

The entire logistical advantage of the pyramid shape is that your four corners also act as roofs. The inherent disadvantage of a pyramid is that every piece must be equally reinforced to provide uniform protection. But roofs don't need to be as strong as your main walls, because lobbers can be aggroed and their attention redirected to the strong parts of your base. And flingers don't seem to toss husky husks, so nothing worth worrying about is going to end up on your roof unless you build stairs or ramps up there.

As for tactical advantages? Having cover and trap opportunities outweigh clear lines of sight 100% of the time once you're at the level where husks are actually dangerous.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

TheBlandName posted:

code:
Husks break in here.
     v  _
     _i/ \i_
___i/       \i___
That's an expensive construction for a single trap (that you have to place 25 times!) and one and one third walls worth of defense. That's a 7x7 structure. It requires 890 resources for a level 1 version. Or 5,340 to reinforce everything to level 3. (Literally not counting the floor traps around your base because they're not reliant on the pyramid to work.)

By comparison, a conventional bunker with roof, and a surrounding ring of low walls will require 460 resources for a level 1 version. 90 of those resources will be low priority roof pieces. So a level 3 version will cost 2,220 resources, plus 90 for a level 1 roof. If you're really worried about your roof you can double layer it with level 1s, for a total cost of 2,400 resources. Still coming in at 1/2 cost compared to the pyramid.

The entire logistical advantage of the pyramid shape is that your four corners also act as roofs. The inherent disadvantage of a pyramid is that every piece must be equally reinforced to provide uniform protection. But roofs don't need to be as strong as your main walls, because lobbers can be aggroed and their attention redirected to the strong parts of your base. And flingers don't seem to toss husky husks, so nothing worth worrying about is going to end up on your roof unless you build stairs or ramps up there.

As for tactical advantages? Having cover and trap opportunities outweigh clear lines of sight 100% of the time once you're at the level where husks are actually dangerous.

But your bunker is so ugly.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012

Skandranon posted:

But your bunker is so ugly.

Style is a perfectly valid reason to build pyramids, as I acknowledged before. Own your reason. Don't try to wishful think the pyramid into an effective design when it's not.

ADDING: I understand style. Whenever possible I've avoided destroying any trees, bushes, or rocks for my Plankerton base, instead building my forts around them. It's definitely reduced the effectiveness of my base, but it looks (to me) absolutely great to be blasting husks as they shamble out of the surrounding swampland.

TheBlandName fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Aug 1, 2017

RecoomesSexyRear
Jul 18, 2003

Xae posted:

There is a fun game in Fortnite but it seems burried under 50 different systems that only exist for monetization.

The survivor aspect thing as is could be scrapped completely there is too much poo poo to fill in or maintain

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

TheBlandName posted:

Style is a perfectly valid reason to build pyramids, as I acknowledged before. Own your reason. Don't try to wishful think the pyramid into an effective design when it's not.

ADDING: I understand style. Whenever possible I've avoided destroying any trees, bushes, or rocks for my Plankerton base, instead building my forts around them. It's definitely reduced the effectiveness of my base, but it looks (to me) absolutely great to be blasting husks as they shamble out of the surrounding swampland.

I wasn't actually suggesting the multi-tiered one was desirable, it is costly in both space and resources. I was showing how a pyramid may be useful. I prefer the simple pyramid as it's rare they will breach even the first bounding wall, and you get all the sight line benefits from it. The pyramid is also much easier to navigate, no need to look around for stairs or jump pads. It also should be your last line of defense, not the first. You should be defeating most of the enemy further out, and only need to use the pyramid when everything has gone to poo poo.

Bakalakadaka
Sep 18, 2004

The pyramid seems like a great quick temporary fort for missions where the objective is in an open area but if your main base isn't a super elaborate death castle you are missing out.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Bakalakadaka posted:

The pyramid seems like a great quick temporary fort for missions where the objective is in an open area but if your main base isn't a super elaborate death castle you are missing out.

I'm actually planning out some authentic Roman fortifications as we speak. Going to populate it with useless, authentic buildings, and make people fight through the streets.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
You can download Fortnite fine for free, but if you do, it kicks you to a login screen and tells you 'a starter's pack or founder's pack is required to play Fortnite.' Seems kind of hosed up that it says 'full game' on PSN but then hey, nothing doing. Like, why even release the free package?

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Xae posted:

There is a fun game in Fortnite but it seems burried under 50 different systems that only exist for monetization.

This is pretty accurate. I hope they clean it up some.

Raged
Jul 21, 2003

Why are there level 40 enemies in level 19 missions?

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Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Raged posted:

Why are there level 40 enemies in level 19 missions?

Did you join someone else's game or were there a couple 40s among the 19s?

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