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EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

Measly Twerp posted:

Ugh. I'm still in the same argument on AnandTech about that Hardware Unboxed benchmark.


And here's my attempt to explain why the test is good and useful for the nth loving time:


Am I crazy? Am I committing some failing of logic? I just don't seem to be getting through to this guy.

I clicked the next page on your link and was kind of wowed.



IF bandwidth/latency matters way more than the core clock. AMD has easy 30% gains for the exact same loving chip just by having IF run asynchronously.

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eames
May 9, 2009

Somebody did benchmarks and the draw call value in Futuremark's API overhead test more than doubled from "stock clocks and auto at PC-2666" to "overclocked and aggressive timings at PC-3200".
I don't have time to find the screenshot but the difference was staggering, that's probably why fast RAM does so well in games.

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




CPU unboxings are up now. Paul & Kyle have them and got a bunch of kit from AMD to make systems with threadripper.

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015

Measly Twerp posted:

Ugh. I'm still in the same argument on AnandTech about that Hardware Unboxed benchmark.


And here's my attempt to explain why the test is good and useful for the nth loving time:


Am I crazy? Am I committing some failing of logic? I just don't seem to be getting through to this guy.

I don't know how you handle it over there. The fact that a mod regularly sides with a poster who is "DEFINITELY NOT RACIST BUT" is nuts. Like locks threads when people call him out for it.

I had kind of hoped for a higher caliber of poster given the higher caliber of content on the website, but oh well. Maybe save yourself from the stress and leave the screaming crazies to their own devices?

Maxwell Adams
Oct 21, 2000

T E E F S
Bitwit on unboxing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yReJcUbaIow&t=328s

Gamer's Nexus on unboxing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpvGYxaMLc0&t=377s

GN is already my favorite tech channel but somehow they keep topping themselves.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Why do all the boards have so many USB 3.1 connectors, except the ASRock with USB 3.0? That can't be right.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

Maxwell Adams posted:

Bitwit on unboxing:

Gamer's Nexus on unboxing:

OK that's a pretty funny contrast

Anarchist Mae
Nov 5, 2009

by Reene
Lipstick Apathy
AdoredTV and JayzTwoCents both have a Linus moment...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kERca1KZzIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3s7rEY-22w

Also, AMD misspelled platfrom:

Anarchist Mae fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 3, 2017

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

FaustianQ posted:

IF bandwidth/latency matters way more than the core clock. AMD has easy 30% gains for the exact same loving chip just by having IF run asynchronously.
What does memory latency have to do with IF? Does IF also use CAS timings?

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Combat Pretzel posted:

Why do all the boards have so many USB 3.1 connectors, except the ASRock with USB 3.0? That can't be right.

Isn't 3.0 now known as 3.1 Gen 1?

eames
May 9, 2009


Wonder if he also got the Motherboard, PSU, RAM, SSD and Cooler. Why not mention it? :thunk:

The TR pre-launch so far makes Intel look pretty cheap. Just a quick reminder, they didn't even bother sending naked SL-X review samples to the EU press and here's AMD shipping 250 full review systems with that insanely over-engineered retail packaging that includes a branded torque torx wrench color matched to the carrier plate. :lol:

eames fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Aug 3, 2017

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Combat Pretzel posted:

What does memory latency have to do with IF? Does IF also use CAS timings?

Memory and IF bus clocks are linked so if you crank the memory speed up you'll increase the IF bus clocks too. Changing the memory timings won't do a thing to the IF bus.

That is why lots of people are trying to get to 3200Mhz on the DDR4 with AMD. Gets you something like 5-10% performance improvement in general. DDR4 3000 speeds (or 2933) is much easier to do and tends to cost quite a bit less ($124 for 16GB right now) and will get you much of the benefits as far as I can tell. There is some AMD specific RAM kits out (Flare X) but they tend to have a price premium that is too high IMO but if you want to get to DDR4 3400 or 3600 speeds they're pretty much the only game in town.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

eames posted:

Wonder if he also got the Motherboard, PSU, RAM, SSD and Cooler. Why not mention it? :thunk:

The TR pre-launch so far makes Intel look pretty cheap. Just a quick reminder, they didn't even bother sending naked SL-X review samples to the EU press and here's AMD shipping 250 full review systems with that insanely over-engineered retail packaging that includes a branded torque torx wrench color matched to the carrier plate. :lol:

Its not like intel doesn't have a history of sending out elaborate press kits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcHQDF2BDeI

These people also got ram and boards and all that poo poo as well.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

PerrineClostermann posted:

Isn't 3.0 now known as 3.1 Gen 1?

Yes. Odds are asrock is the odd one out in that they don't like/care about the usb 3.0 renaming. the old style usb 3.1 ports are just regular old 3.0/2.0/1.1 usb ports, and usb-c is the cool new swedish cousinne

Anarchist Mae
Nov 5, 2009

by Reene
Lipstick Apathy

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

Yes. Odds are asrock is the odd one out in that they don't like/care about the usb 3.0 renaming. the old style usb 3.1 ports are just regular old 3.0/2.0/1.1 usb ports, and usb-c is the cool new swedish cousinne

loving hell. Why couldn't they have just called it USB 4 and cut out all this bullshit?

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

PerrineClostermann posted:

Isn't 3.0 now known as 3.1 Gen 1?

They're slightly different, the physical layer is identical but they added a new encoding to 3.1gen1 that reduces overhead by using larger packets. Theoretically the bandwidth overhead is reduced from 20% to 3%.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

repiv posted:

They're slightly different, the physical layer is identical but they added a new encoding to 3.1gen1 that reduces overhead by using larger packets. Theoretically the bandwidth overhead is reduced from 20% to 3%.

Oh, that's the first I've heard of this. That's actually pretty interesting.

SoftNum
Mar 31, 2011

Measly Twerp posted:

loving hell. Why couldn't they have just called it USB 4 and cut out all this bullshit?

then how would they sell you USB 1 devices/cables labeled as USB 2? (No seriously this is exactly why)

TheCoach
Mar 11, 2014
Someone needs to edit this replacing the hyperspace core with threadripper.

TheCoach fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 3, 2017

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
I guess the yields are really high if they're sending out 250 unusable models with media outlet etchings on them.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

There were always going to be more than 250 engineering samples / mistakes

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

alternatively, all four dies are dummy glass on a pcb in those things

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

Don Lapre posted:

Its not like intel doesn't have a history of sending out elaborate press kits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcHQDF2BDeI

These people also got ram and boards and all that poo poo as well.

I thought that was the Space Capsule video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LR-LlMZlrU

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Memory and IF bus clocks are linked so if you crank the memory speed up you'll increase the IF bus clocks too. Changing the memory timings won't do a thing to the IF bus.

That is why lots of people are trying to get to 3200Mhz on the DDR4 with AMD. Gets you something like 5-10% performance improvement in general. DDR4 3000 speeds (or 2933) is much easier to do and tends to cost quite a bit less ($124 for 16GB right now) and will get you much of the benefits as far as I can tell. There is some AMD specific RAM kits out (Flare X) but they tend to have a price premium that is too high IMO but if you want to get to DDR4 3400 or 3600 speeds they're pretty much the only game in town.
Then I don't get those graphs. Between 3466 whatever and 3466 CL14 there's a huge bump, IF speeds should be the same between them?

--edit: I mean, because this was said in a post here:

quote:

IF bandwidth/latency matters way more than the core clock. AMD has easy 30% gains for the exact same loving chip just by having IF run asynchronously.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Aug 3, 2017

Mister Fister
May 17, 2008

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
KILL-GORE


I love the smell of dead Palestinians in the morning.
You know, one time we had Gaza bombed for 26 days
(and counting!)
Hey dumb question, i'm seriously thinking about switching from my dinosaur of an i5-2500k setup and going with a Ryzen chip. However, i also have an Nvidia 1060 card that i'd like to keep in this new setup. I was reading some articles that Nvidia Cards don't perform as well with Ryzen chips as they do w/ Intel Chips, but these articles were from several months back. Is this still true?

Edit: I do gaming on a 1080p 144hz monitor, mostly fast paced First person shooters at low settings to squeeze out as much fps as possible, if that makes a difference.

Mister Fister fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 3, 2017

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

Combat Pretzel posted:

Then I don't get those graphs. Between 3466 whatever and 3466 CL14 there's a huge bump, IF speeds should be the same between them?

--edit: I mean, because this was said in a post here:

Comedy future: The architecture wasn't designed to run IF clocks asynchronously because AMD couldn't pay Keller enough for him to put it in.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

Combat Pretzel posted:

What does memory latency have to do with IF? Does IF also use CAS timings?

I'm not sure myself but even AMDs own testing shows that tighter latency means more than even higher bandwidth, where low latency 3200 beats higher latency 3466. Maybe Ryzen waits on the RAM a lot, which kind of points to a CPU that has a lot of future growth?

Mister Fister posted:

Hey dumb question, i'm seriously thinking about switching from my dinosaur of an i5-2500k setup and going with a Ryzen chip. However, i also have an Nvidia 1060 card that i'd like to keep in this new setup. I was reading some articles that Nvidia Cards don't perform as well with Ryzen chips as they do w/ Intel Chips, but these articles were from several months back. Is this still true?

Edit: I do gaming on a 1080p 144hz monitor, mostly fast paced First person shooters at low settings to squeeze out as much fps as possible, if that makes a difference.

This was like a handful of cases (RotTR being the most prominent) that were quickly fixed. Nvidia actually wants Ryzen to sell, specifically TR and EPYC because AMD isn't segmenting based on PCIE lanes which means every single TR or EPYC sold is more Nvidia GPUs sold compared to pushing Intel. Also keep in mind that Nvidia and AMD do not hate each other like they loathe Intel.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Mister Fister posted:

Hey dumb question, i'm seriously thinking about switching from my dinosaur of an i5-2500k setup and going with a Ryzen chip. However, i also have an Nvidia 1060 card that i'd like to keep in this new setup. I was reading some articles that Nvidia Cards don't perform as well with Ryzen chips as they do w/ Intel Chips, but these articles were from several months back. Is this still true?

Edit: I do gaming on a 1080p 144hz monitor, mostly fast paced First person shooters at low settings to squeeze out as much fps as possible, if that makes a difference.

Your usage case is one of very few that probably still wants a highly-clocked Intel CPU. How high is your 2500K clocked? Would you be better off buying a better cooler and clocking it more for now?

schmagekie
Dec 2, 2003

Mister Fister posted:

Hey dumb question, i'm seriously thinking about switching from my dinosaur of an i5-2500k setup and going with a Ryzen chip. However, i also have an Nvidia 1060 card that i'd like to keep in this new setup. I was reading some articles that Nvidia Cards don't perform as well with Ryzen chips as they do w/ Intel Chips, but these articles were from several months back. Is this still true?

Edit: I do gaming on a 1080p 144hz monitor, mostly fast paced First person shooters at low settings to squeeze out as much fps as possible, if that makes a difference.

I hit well over 144 in Overwatch at 1080p with a 1050ti and a stock 1700X.
Edit: I upgraded from a 3570K and now I can leave Chrome, Discord, and Spotify running no problem.

schmagekie fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Aug 3, 2017

Mister Fister
May 17, 2008

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
KILL-GORE


I love the smell of dead Palestinians in the morning.
You know, one time we had Gaza bombed for 26 days
(and counting!)

FaustianQ posted:



This was like a handful of cases (RotTR being the most prominent) that were quickly fixed. Nvidia actually wants Ryzen to sell, specifically TR and EPYC because AMD isn't segmenting based on PCIE lanes which means every single TR or EPYC sold is more Nvidia GPUs sold compared to pushing Intel. Also keep in mind that Nvidia and AMD do not hate each other like they loathe Intel.


That's great to know, puts me at ease.

Twerk from Home posted:

Your usage case is one of very few that probably still wants a highly-clocked Intel CPU. How high is your 2500K clocked? Would you be better off buying a better cooler and clocking it more for now?


I have a Cooler Master 212 Evo on it... i overclocked it from 3.3 ghz to 4.2 ghz without messing with voltages. I play a lot of overwatch and one thing i've learned is that my lovely DDR3 memory is limiting the amount of FPS i can squeeze out in that game... applies to other games as well.


schmagekie posted:

I hit well over 144 in Overwatch at 1080p with a 1050ti and a stock 1700X.
Edit: I upgraded from a 3570K and now I can leave Chrome, Discord, and Spotify running no problem.

Yeah, i get up to 200 FPS, but it jumps a lot and can dip below 144 hz unfortunately with my i5-2500k. Ideally, i'd like to have a constant 300 fps with a new setup and my super low settings.

Thanks guys!

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Mister Fister posted:

I have a Cooler Master 212 Evo on it... i overclocked it from 3.3 ghz to 4.2 ghz without messing with voltages. I play a lot of overwatch and one thing i've learned is that my lovely DDR3 memory is limiting the amount of FPS i can squeeze out in that game... applies to other games as well.

I got some pretty big gains in CS:GO FPS by going from DDR3-1333 to DDR3-2133. It might be worth a shot at shoving more voltage into the RAM and seeing if you can make it go faster. Tighten up those timings, too.

There's no doubt that an R5-1600 or similar is a better all-around CPU than a 2500K, but "300fps at minimum settings" really wants a 7700K or as close as you can get by overclocking older Intel chips.

Mister Fister
May 17, 2008

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
KILL-GORE


I love the smell of dead Palestinians in the morning.
You know, one time we had Gaza bombed for 26 days
(and counting!)

Twerk from Home posted:

I got some pretty big gains in CS:GO FPS by going from DDR3-1333 to DDR3-2133. It might be worth a shot at shoving more voltage into the RAM and seeing if you can make it go faster. Tighten up those timings, too.

There's no doubt that an R5-1600 or similar is a better all-around CPU than a 2500K, but "300fps at minimum settings" really wants a 7700K or as close as you can get by overclocking older Intel chips.

Yeah i have DDR3-1666... i was under the impression that overclocking Ram was a bad a idea, from the overclocking thread here anyway.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
GamersNexus checks to see if there may be problems with the main thermal mass of CLC coolers being situated right over the middle of nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpvGYxaMLc0

My takeaway: Better get one of those EK Fluid Gaming kits, retrofitting existing CLCs onto Threadripper doesn't look like a good solution.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Combat Pretzel posted:

Then I don't get those graphs. Between 3466 whatever and 3466 CL14 there's a huge bump, IF speeds should be the same between them
Memory latency will still effect CPU performance though so lowering it can make a decent performance difference. The scaling won't necessarily be linear either.

But changing CAS memory latencies will have no more effect on the IF bus performance itself then it would on the PCIe bus.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

FaustianQ posted:

I'm not sure myself but even AMDs own testing shows that tighter latency means more than even higher bandwidth, where low latency 3200 beats higher latency 3466. Maybe Ryzen waits on the RAM a lot, which kind of points to a CPU that has a lot of future growth?
I suppose lower memory access latencies will raise the chances of more data being available during a cross-die/CCX IF bus cycle. Or something

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.
welp vega is apparently a mining beast so good for my amd stock


if they can plow that revenue into a decent Navi then I will be happy

Wirth1000
May 12, 2010

#essereFerrari

FaustianQ posted:

Also keep in mind that Nvidia and AMD do not hate each other like they loathe Intel.

What's this now? nVidia loathes Intel?

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor

Wirth1000 posted:

What's this now? nVidia loathes Intel?

When intel and amd did a court thing the court said to intel you can't gently caress with pci stuff because the court was afraid they would.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

Wirth1000 posted:

What's this now? nVidia loathes Intel?

Intel is just as lovely to Nvidia as they've been to everyone else, plus they're directly responsible for Nvidia being unable to make competitive processors, and forever closing out that market to them. Unless the unimaginable happens and Intel goes bust, in which case it'll be AMD to tell Nvidia to get hosed on making an x86 processor.

Like normally companies rarely hold grudges as long as there is profit to be made but Intel somehow manages to transcend this in the semiconductor world.

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ShinAli
May 2, 2003

The Kid better watch his step.
Been waiting for Threadripper to upgrade my machine so I'm queuing up all the parts I'm going to buy, but I need a sanity check on memory because I don't know what the gently caress.

I'm looking at the motherboards and they're all saying they support up to DDR4-3600; can I just get any brand of DDR4-3600? Do I need to get 4 sticks in order to get it to clock at 3600? I heard some brands of memory were getting issues to clock right with Ryzen.

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