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KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Combat Pretzel posted:

Behringer is Chinese poo poo gear? Heh, friend of mine is a fan of their stuff for nearly two decades. Didn't really question their brand, expected it to be German or something, based on the name.

German company with Chinese manufacturing, before everyone else started doing it.

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Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

Palladium posted:

http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/

Universally reviled company for cheap crappy Chinese knockoffs of the pro audio world produces an $80 audio interface with more I/O connections you can shake a stick at which beats the living poo poo out of $350 audiophile grade DAC in playback fidelity.

Something emperor, something clothes.

Am I the only one not surprised? I bet if they tested any random pro DAC, they would outperform consumer gear priced three times as much. There are a dozen brands just like Behringer and they all sell a 2-input audio interface at that price point, aimed at entry-level home studios. Heck, I have one here, a FocusRite Scarlett something something. Terrific sound. Lots of knobs. Gives phantom power.

But of course, no audiophile would buy it, because it isn't branded Cambridge or Mcintosh...?

metallicaeg
Nov 28, 2005

Evil Red Wings Owner Wario Lemieux Steals Stanley Cup
Actual performance doesn't matter. We're talking about people that will take FLACs over $100 USB cables to a DAC with a $200 power cable due to jitter and dirty power and output it to a tube amp that distorts the sound anyway.

The only reasoning that these people understand is that outrageous price tag = good, and magazine/site reviews throwing around the same vague garbage praise that they do with everything - sound stage is yuge, the imaging is the best, and the most amazing timbre you've ever heard, believe me. Any double blind tests or scientific rigor that challenges their notions are fake news. They're one Killary reference away from being Trump voters.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Am I the only one not surprised? I bet if they tested any random pro DAC, they would outperform consumer gear priced three times as much. There are a dozen brands just like Behringer and they all sell a 2-input audio interface at that price point, aimed at entry-level home studios. Heck, I have one here, a FocusRite Scarlett something something. Terrific sound. Lots of knobs. Gives phantom power.

But of course, no audiophile would buy it, because it isn't branded Cambridge or Mcintosh...?

Yeah but my Focusrite doesn't do stereo inputs. I love literally everything else about it though.
That behringer on the other hand sounds like it does?

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



It looks like it just bridges the two mono inputs together, which you should be able to do in software with your Focusrite?

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

EL BROMANCE posted:

It looks like it just bridges the two mono inputs together, which you should be able to do in software with your Focusrite?

oh... well yeah duh.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT
Lol.

Also I love my 2i2. I just use it as a sound card with a fat volume knob for my Mackies, though.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

KozmoNaut posted:

German company with Chinese manufacturing, before everyone else started doing it.

Was gonna say, it's rare for mass market electronics to be manufactured outside China these days, so it hardly matters if the name on the box is German.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
Since I want a headphone amp on the desk as well as line-outs to my LSR305s, so I just ordered the Chininger UMC204HD and 2x Monoprice 1/4" TRS balanced cables to upgrade my ancient $20 UCA202 DAC for less the price of a single presumbably magic-infused headphone cable.

drat these Cheap Chinese junk are such ripoffs. :smug:

Palladium fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 2, 2017

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Palladium posted:

Since I want a headphone amp on the desk as well as line-outs to my LSR305s, so I just ordered the Chininger UMC204HD and 2x Monoprice 1/4" TRS balanced cables to upgrade my current UCA202 DAC for less the price of a single presumbably magic-infused headphone cable.

drat these Cheap Chinese junk are such ripoffs. :smug:

Yeah, but the cable you linked has crystals. Crystals

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

Wasabi the J posted:

Lol.

Also I love my 2i2. I just use it as a sound card with a fat volume knob for my Mackies, though.

2i2 for life bro. GODDAMN I love having a fat volume knob for monitors and a nice tight little one for headphones. unf

What Mackies are you rockin'?

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/102583077-post289.html

An fine example of the headphone crazies in my country. The reviewer who tested the Behringer also mentioned every Schitt product he tested measured horribly regardless of price tag. So our hero got himself a $1100 Sony music player (which I'm 99.999% sure loses to the $10 iPhone 7 DAC dongle) through at least 2 pieces of distortion-fest laden gear in his hilariously complicated signal chain. I hope he doesn't see this post or similar ones because its gonna induce Star Citizen levels of denialism.

synthetik
Feb 28, 2007

I forgive you, Will. Will you forgive me?

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

2i2 for life bro. GODDAMN I love having a fat volume knob for monitors and a nice tight little one for headphones. unf

What Mackies are you rockin'?

I used to have the BigKnob but traded it in for a UR28.

Any answer other than Mackie HR824 is wrong.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Palladium posted:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/102583077-post289.html

An fine example of the headphone crazies in my country. The reviewer who tested the Behringer also mentioned every Schitt product he tested measured horribly regardless of price tag. So our hero got himself a $1100 Sony music player (which I'm 99.999% sure loses to the $10 iPhone 7 DAC dongle) through at least 2 pieces of distortion-fest laden gear in his hilariously complicated signal chain. I hope he doesn't see this post or similar ones because its gonna induce Star Citizen levels of denialism.

You weren't kidding

quote:

Sony NW-ZX2 > WMC-MWH10 > Schiit Wyrd > Mutec MC3+ > AES > Schiit Yggdrasil > Audio-gd Master 9 > HD800 Balanced / Yamaha HS8

Christ almighty

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!
So what is that 1200 Walkman doing that is so fancy? I guess it does DSD natively? Something apparently halves the battery life with high resolution audio, I guess a much gigher sample rate really knocks it down...

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

2i2 for life bro. GODDAMN I love having a fat volume knob for monitors and a nice tight little one for headphones. unf

What Mackies are you rockin'?

Just slumming it with MR5 Mk3s.

synthetik posted:

I used to have the BigKnob but traded it in for a UR28.

Any answer other than Mackie HR824 is wrong.

:smith:

bigman.50grand
Mar 31, 2007
no

Palladium posted:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/102583077-post289.html

An fine example of the headphone crazies in my country. The reviewer who tested the Behringer also mentioned every Schitt product he tested measured horribly regardless of price tag. So our hero got himself a $1100 Sony music player (which I'm 99.999% sure loses to the $10 iPhone 7 DAC dongle) through at least 2 pieces of distortion-fest laden gear in his hilariously complicated signal chain. I hope he doesn't see this post or similar ones because its gonna induce Star Citizen levels of denialism.

But how do you objectively test your gear without your minimum 100-200 hour burn in period? :jerkbag:

synthetik
Feb 28, 2007

I forgive you, Will. Will you forgive me?
Are you doing music engineering/production with the MK5s? Is there enough low end? The 824s are one of the few studio monitors that really don't require a sub unless you're doing 5.1 mixes.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

synthetik posted:

Are you doing music engineering/production with the MK5s? Is there enough low end? The 824s are one of the few studio monitors that really don't require a sub unless you're doing 5.1 mixes.

No lol just listening to videogames and music.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

synthetik posted:

I used to have the BigKnob but traded it in for a UR28.

Any answer other than Mackie HR824 is wrong.

:flashfap: keep going I'm almost there. Those monitors are so good I still don't understand how they're so cheap. But that's what Mackie does: solid performance, indestructible products, decent price.

Wasabi the J posted:

Just slumming it with MR5 Mk3s.
:smith:

Wasabi the J posted:

No lol just listening to videogames and music.

Nothing wrong with that. They're great desktop speakers, albeit lacking if you're trying to watch movies or whatever.
They are stupidly cheap though. So much so that I still don't understand why the CR3 is even a thing.
Is the $80 computer speaker market really that prominent? People can't just plunk down 250% more for something good?

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



I was tempted by the CR3 but just can't imagine any low end at all from them, and I only want a 2.0 setup.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

Nothing wrong with that. They're great desktop speakers, albeit lacking if you're trying to watch movies or whatever.
They are stupidly cheap though. So much so that I still don't understand why the CR3 is even a thing.
Is the $80 computer speaker market really that prominent? People can't just plunk down 250% more for something good?

90% of people who see 5+ inch active monitors would think it's crap because they are too bulky on the desk and doesn't have that subwoofer that farts out anything but accurate bass that they heard at Best Buy.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
90% of people are very happy with sub-$150 speakers/headphones for their computer. And are very unlikely to drop more than $500 for the whole living room. What's the point of marginal gains when the neighbor's kids are shouting and the AC is on?

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Aug 2, 2017

limpy wimpy
Jul 1, 2007

qirex posted:

Supposedly The Chemical Brothers' entire first album was recorded off microphones picking up the music played back through vintage guitar amps. Nowadays there's a plug-in for that but I always thought that was hilarious [if true].

Depeche Mode actually did do something similar during the recording of Black Celebration.


"We played the entire recording through a PA system broadcasting it through the entire building and then recorded it from the other side of the building to pickup the distortion."

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Palladium posted:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/102583077-post289.html

An fine example of the headphone crazies in my country. The reviewer who tested the Behringer also mentioned every Schitt product he tested measured horribly regardless of price tag.
I guess I'm glad I never sprung for the Schiit stuff, no matter how often it was recommended in whatever thread(s) it was.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Speleothing posted:

90% of people are very happy with sub-$150 speakers/headphones for their computer. And are very unlikely to drop more than $500 for the whole living room. What's the point of marginal gains when the neighbor's kids are shouting and the AC is on?

Well, I paid under $100 for my computer speakers, but that was 15 years ago and they're Monsoon MM-1000s so maybe that doesn't count. Planars are awesome.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Combat Pretzel posted:

I guess I'm glad I never sprung for the Schiit stuff, no matter how often it was recommended in whatever thread(s) it was.

The believers love their narrative of obscure underdogs working in their basement/garage bringing the good fight to the greedy multibillion megacorps who clearly know nothing about audio engineering and ripping all of us with cheap soulless gear. Of course the former will produce the best and greatest gear ever walked this earth which needs no testing because it's already the best and greatest while outsourcing production to the lowest bidder in China.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003
Not sure why I just thought of this but I once got into an argument with someone who claimed that two wav files ripped from the same CD and proven to be bitwise identical could sound different if the CD was 'treated' with markers and poo poo between the two rips. Like they had just heard the term 'jitter' once and assumed it meant all of physics was subjective.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Rescue Toaster posted:

Not sure why I just thought of this but I once got into an argument with someone who claimed that two wav files ripped from the same CD and proven to be bitwise identical could sound different if the CD was 'treated' with markers and poo poo between the two rips. Like they had just heard the term 'jitter' once and assumed it meant all of physics was subjective.

Something something about impossible to measure everything therefore impossible to disprove said premise.

Foxtrot_13
Oct 31, 2013
Ask me about my love of genocide denial!
Don't forget about the placebo effect. If you were to play the same music on the same hardware twice but told the listener you had replaced the amp and cables with audiophile voodoo stuff 7 or 8 out of 10 people will swear blind there is a difference.

You could do the same with wine and wine snobs. Same wine but one with a supermarket label and one with a fancy french label and the french one will taste better.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

Foxtrot_13 posted:

You could do the same with wine and wine snobs. Same wine but one with a supermarket label and one with a fancy french label and the french one will taste better.
a lot of wineries want to switch to synthetic corks because they're actually better for the wine but their customers would never put up with it

any sufficiently audiophile argument is reduced to emotional appeals about the soul of music, but for some reason they cling to "this is better" rather than "this is my preference"

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

qirex posted:

a lot of wineries want to switch to synthetic corks because they're actually better for the wine but their customers would never put up with it

any sufficiently audiophile argument is reduced to emotional appeals about the soul of music, but for some reason they cling to "this is better" rather than "this is my preference"

Nah, they should just dump corks, natural or synthetic, into the garbo dump. Screw caps are so much better at ensuring a good seal and a lot more practical to use.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

qirex posted:

any sufficiently audiophile argument is reduced to emotional appeals about the soul of music, but for some reason they cling to "this is better" rather than "this is my preference"

Vinyl fans, yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

:flashfap: keep going I'm almost there. Those monitors are so good I still don't understand how they're so cheap. But that's what Mackie does: solid performance, indestructible products, decent price.



Nothing wrong with that. They're great desktop speakers, albeit lacking if you're trying to watch movies or whatever.
They are stupidly cheap though. So much so that I still don't understand why the CR3 is even a thing.
Is the $80 computer speaker market really that prominent? People can't just plunk down 250% more for something good?

They meet my needs, because I really don't get to crank up the bass anyway.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

Olympic Mathlete posted:

Vinyl fans, yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

"I like the sound of my system better" is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, even if it's "I spent a hundred grand on tubes, cable risers, power conditioners and other tweako bullshit to get my sound exactly how I want it." There's no shame in it, you have a system you love. Why does what necessarily have to translate to "everyone else's system is crap?"

JFairfax
Oct 23, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
scratching with vinyl is just the best though

ssb
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!


qirex posted:

"I like the sound of my system better" is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, even if it's "I spent a hundred grand on tubes, cable risers, power conditioners and other tweako bullshit to get my sound exactly how I want it." There's no shame in it, you have a system you love. Why does what necessarily have to translate to "everyone else's system is crap?"

Because nobody who spends that kind of money has that kind of self-awareness. At best, you'll get something about how THEY can hear the difference because they have golden ears or some poo poo. You're never going to get anyone to say "Yeah, it may not be as technically accurate, but I like how it sounds so I'm happy." It's always going to at least passive-aggressively trash everyone else, especially anyone who doesn't understand how this $100k system is objectively better in every way.

Nobody cares if people spend money on a hobby that they like - it's when they poo poo talk everyone else and/or say wildly inaccurate things in order to talk others into spending money that doesn't do anything. It stops being about getting their sound at that point.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

shortspecialbus posted:

Because nobody who spends that kind of money has that kind of self-awareness. At best, you'll get something about how THEY can hear the difference because they have golden ears or some poo poo. You're never going to get anyone to say "Yeah, it may not be as technically accurate, but I like how it sounds so I'm happy." It's always going to at least passive-aggressively trash everyone else, especially anyone who doesn't understand how this $100k system is objectively better in every way.

Nobody cares if people spend money on a hobby that they like - it's when they poo poo talk everyone else and/or say wildly inaccurate things in order to talk others into spending money that doesn't do anything. It stops being about getting their sound at that point.

Yeah, I find it virtually impossible to believe anybody who spends vastly more on a given hobby than the average guy isn't at some level coming from an motivation to justify their snobbishness.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Speleothing posted:

90% of people are very happy with sub-$150 speakers/headphones for their computer. And are very unlikely to drop more than $500 for the whole living room. What's the point of marginal gains when the neighbor's kids are shouting and the AC is on?

I'm pulling this number out of my bum but I will be very surprised if someone can prove I'm wrong: about 100% of people are very happy with sub-30€ speakers/headphones for their computer (there's a lot of people with computers and speakers, and the models that seem to run out the quickest are the 29,90€ sets on sale).

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ssb
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!


Jerry Cotton posted:

I'm pulling this number out of my bum but I will be very surprised if someone can prove I'm wrong: about 100% of people are very happy with sub-30€ speakers/headphones for their computer (there's a lot of people with computers and speakers, and the models that seem to run out the quickest are the 29,90€ sets on sale).

Using an anecdotal subset of my friends, who all play a lot of computer games, they're more spending ~$150 on computer speakers. I would imagine that people who aren't playing a lot of games are perfectly happy with the $30 ones. I myself spent $120 on a 2.0 system and added a $250 6" subwoofer. I also have a large 7.2.4 atmos system for my home theatre/console gaming TV. I live in the country and don't have neighbors who can hear me so I think I'm not in the norm with that.

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