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Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

It does feel like the game designers never realize that chaos' strength is never mass armies or uber-invincible gary stus, but taking advantage of desperate people who are either left behind by or actively oppressed by the powers.

Of course, given how GW has Chaos win by basically cheating and kicking over other factions legitimately winning tournaments.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Their company is actually doing really well right now because the new CEO licenses their properties for things like Total Warhammer, and over in 40k they discovered Marine players will pay tons of money for new, improved, slightly bigger Marines.

I'm not even kidding. 'This Marine is slightly taller but the same model and with even more overblown fluff' is a winner for them.

E: In fairness, Total Warhammer totally rules.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Is there a TRPG based on the "reboot" that turned the Empire into Not Space Marines?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I think they intend to make one alongside making a WHFRP 4e set in the Old World again.

And honestly, I don't mind that approach. If they've got fans who like their dumb as poo poo Age of Pauldron stuff, take their money, as long as stuff like Total Warhams keeps up alongside. I don't care that Age of Sigmar exists, I was just pretty annoyed about what happened to Warhams Fantasy.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Night10194 posted:

And the best part is, since Archaon is supposed to be a fallen Witch Hunter and Imperial, *he should've known all of this*. Hell, if he was a former Witch Hunter, he should've even known not to try to flank through Sylvania because oh poo poo vampires!

Being a shortsighted bumbling gently caress with a massively strong sword arm and a dwindling sense of their previous self is par for a chaos champion
Innit


Probably doesnt help that they have tzen and khorne whispering and shouting (respectively) "do something NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW" pretty much constantly.

Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Aug 8, 2017

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Dark Elves: https://youtu.be/_pLsM2ijRao

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Being a shortsighted bumbling gently caress with a massively strong sword arm and a dwindling sense of their previous self is par for a chaos champion
Innit

They literally get turned slowly into Chaos Robots and the better ones notice and just invent a new personality and schtick for themselves. It's part of their career progression.

Archaon skipped that step.

Vox Valentine
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Night10194 posted:

Their company is actually doing really well right now because the new CEO licenses their properties for things like Total Warhammer, and over in 40k they discovered Marine players will pay tons of money for new, improved, slightly bigger Marines.

I'm not even kidding. 'This Marine is slightly taller but the same model and with even more overblown fluff' is a winner for them.

E: In fairness, Total Warhammer totally rules.
There's also general scuttlebutt that they're working on phasing Slaanesh out totally so they can reach even bigger markets to sell minis in by removing all of the questionable SEXY AND MATURE! models so parents won't tell Lil' Grognard they can't play the game that has demon titty in it. Which is definitely something Sigmar did intentionally.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Behold the dominance of nature of the Druchii as they dispose of a lesser being with their usual competence and mastery of poisons.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Hostile V posted:

There's also general scuttlebutt that they're working on phasing Slaanesh out totally so they can reach even bigger markets to sell minis in by removing all of the questionable SEXY AND MATURE! models so parents won't tell Lil' Grognard they can't play the game that has demon titty in it. Which is definitely something Sigmar did intentionally.

See thats a good thing
But not completely rubbing out (hurr hurr) slaanesh
Just turn them into the classic devil. The chaos god of Want and ambition

Might require a complete reflavoring of their sex minions tho. Too bad vampires are already taken. Maybe making them the stealthy ones for chaos, with a skaven like backstabby streak.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer
It is amazing just how different the Chaos gods feel in Fantasy and 40K. As in the Fantasy versions just feel so stupid as they keep on lining up challenge after challenge which only strengthens their opposition. The 40K gods on the other hand saw what would be the greatest threat to them, did everything they could to tear it apart from the inside which is what they have always been best at, and are now quite content to just watch the galaxy burn in a never ending stalemate.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

I will say one thing for the End Times: having Elf Jesus show up and be like 'no actually Malekith is the legitimate heir of all elfdom and gets to be in charge' was hilarious.

Also incredibly stupid, but hey.

E: Malekith, comma, who can no longer take off his armor due to Bad Decisions, wants to gently caress his own mom and has the goofiest big dumb dragon

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Mors Rattus posted:

I will say one thing for the End Times: having Elf Jesus show up and be like 'no actually Malekith is the legitimate heir of all elfdom and gets to be in charge' was hilarious.

Also incredibly stupid, but hey.

Oh, he's fine as the legitimate king, chosen by destiny, who got cheated by someone who didn't want him to be king loving with the fire ritual.

As long as you remember that considering everything he's done, whoever cheated him out of it was the *smartest elf ever to live* because it turns out he's a petty, spiteful rear end in a top hat who shouldn't rule anything.

E: Also, the problem the Fantasy gods face is they're dealing with, you know, decent enough people who aren't idiots. 40k's Chaos Gods have the luxury of facing the Imperium, or 'I'm Sure A Great Man Will Work This Time After Every Other Great Man Just Made Everything Worse'. Chaos is very similar across the two settings, just Fantasy's comes off worse because it's up against better opposition.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Aug 8, 2017

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Oh yeah, the stupid part was the High and Wood Elves falling in line and not being at all skeptical or upset by Elf Jesus' ruling.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Mors Rattus posted:

Oh yeah, the stupid part was the High and Wood Elves falling in line and not being at all skeptical or upset by Elf Jesus' ruling.

I would have preferred it if the entire High Elf nation upon being told that decided to just go gently caress it and live with the Wood Elves as clearly living in whatever Athel Loren is makes more sense then Malkeith some how being a force for good.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
Chaos in Fantasy also has the slight problem of Lord "Hold My Beer" Mazdamundi and the rest of his Pure Order race being far more inclined to show up and help out against Chaos and wage war against Chaos on their own. Chaos in 40k has to deal with the Necrons, who theoretically are also the absolute order race but in practice were widely seen (though not written in their own codex) as mindless killbots. Personally, I blame Dawn of War: Dark Crusade for that.

And now the Necrons are space Tomb Kings instead.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

They also had the problem that the best lizardmen didn't stop fighting when they died.

Lord Kroak: because a good frog can keep fighting even when an immobile and non-undead corpse.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Basically the bad guys in fantasy gotta step up their game because they're up against pissed off landschneckts with fabulous hats, Literally The Hero of An Arthurian Romance, biological robots created by a starfaring race ages ago, Okay Elves Aren't Anything Special And That's The Joke, and good dorfs.

As opposed to 40k, where they're up against Also Screaming One Note Murderbot Fascists But With Fewer Spikes and a bunch of people the authors forget about.

E: There's some great stuff in this book, though. Mutation, the next chapter, is handled real well. And the Norse's sort of contextualization of their learned helplessness in the face of the horror from the north is understandable and tragic, and the kind of thing that makes you want to play a campaign about Norsca breaking free from their Gods.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Aug 8, 2017

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


It's really telling how the old world is full of places from which an enlightenment movement might spring from and yet the only events of world significance are chaos invasions.

By popular demand fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Aug 8, 2017

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I've always kinda felt the Empire as refounded by Magnus and now with the Colleges of Magic is set up to accelerate in technological and magical development a lot, especially after dealing with Archy.

I also tend to think of it as a separate successor state after the original Empire of Sigmar kinda collapsed for hundreds of years during the Time of Three Emperors.

E: That's also always been one of my favorite bits about the Empire, and something I wish Sigmar's Heirs had emphasized like the whole class/gender thing for Bretonnia: The most powerful thing about the Empire is that it's a multicultural state whose people have a lot of experience dealing with people of other nations and cultures, and so they're often the cornerstone of international diplomacy and coalition building.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Aug 8, 2017

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
I do really like Wurm's exp system. But I'm not sure how skills work.

MollyMetroid
Jan 20, 2004

Trout Clan Daimyo


Witch: Fated Souls
Part Four: Even More Fates

Sósyé

The Sósyé believe that they’ve been chosen by a group of spirits called the Reynard who are basically trickster spirits. They’re the best of the Fated at dealing with the Otherworld, and most of them were superstitious before becoming Fated. They tend to go off on wild goose chases, or play pranks or other stuff that’s annoying to their companions. However, there’s always the odd chance that something really valuable or important will come of these little side jaunts, so one can’t really discount them entirely.

The Sósyé have probably the closest relationship with their demons, and can ask the Reynard a question once per session to get guidance. However, they’re also prone to telling lies at awkward (or all) times. It happens because they get possessed by spirits—which other spirits can tell when it happens, at least, so there’s that much going for them—they’re not likely to screw things up with negotiations with a spirit…much. Most spirits still don’t really approve of someone without the control to speak correctly.

The Sósyé spells are Zombie and Fétiche.


Yokai

The Yokai are shapeshifting Fated by Oni. The Oni select only the most polite and respectful individuals. The Yokai learn to change size and shape, selecting one type of animal and being able to change into them at will. They’re masters of stealth, infiltration, and such, but they also really intensely value their privacy—it’s hard to get close to one, but if you do they’ll be friends for life.

They have a hard time empathizing with others, though, and get a social penalty to things like apologizing.

Yokai spells are Mimic, Dai, and Shó — they’re the only Fated who get three.

Short update today. Next time we’ll look at character systems like stats and stuff.

Fossilized Rappy
Dec 26, 2012


Part 6: "The Mount will either behave like a young seductress, an old wise woman, or a nagging hag"


Chapter 4: Entities
After talking up spirits for a while, we now get the chapter that actually lays out more about them. First, what’s up with a soul? You have two of them, actually. The essential soul is the spark of life that animates the body and goes through the cycle of reincarnation, while the individual soul is the thing that gives you personality, opinions, and memory. Spirits are psychic manifestations made up purely of an individual soul, having no essential soul whatsoever, and are either a willful entity sprung from the world of spirits or the lingering essence of someone whose essential soul has already passed back into the cycle of life, death, and rebirth.

Second, what can a spirit do? All spirits have a sense of sight, smell, hearing, and a bit of taste if they're ritually offered food or drink, but need to solidify themselves into a materialized form to have touch. They can also sense human emotions and supernatural powers/beings, as well as hear their names spoken anywhere in the world whenever someone invokes them during strong emotions or some manner of ritual. Being incorporeal beings, spirits don't have to follow human laws of motion, being able to float, move through solid objects that aren't warded, and teleport to either certain places directly tied to them (such as a grave or place of death) or to someone that is invoking them. Rather amusingly, this also means they can't normally ride in vehicles, but can tie their essence to one just enough to "sit" by expending a Fatigue Point per hour of travel.

Spirits cannot usually speak as we understand it, but can communicate telepathically; this unfortunately costs them a Fatigue Point every few seconds if communicating with anyone other than a Third Rank or higher Initiate, however. Spirits can also appear as a corporeal entity in the dream world, possess someone, use telekinesis, warp someone's luck, and manifest itself either audibly, visually, or through temporarily becoming fully corporeal. All of these powers require Fatigue Point usage at various levels. Specific spirits also have specific abilities of their own.



The Voodoo Pantheon
Or, in other words, some of the various loa/orisha. These are the big name loas/orishas whose names are invoked in the rituals of Voodoo Initiates. Loas, as well as other powerful spirits, have three stages of manifestation if they are called out: minor manifestations are on the edge of human and superhuman, moderate manifestations go fully into superhuman, and major manifestations are a sign to run away for everyone but the most powerful characters. When using someone as a Mount/Horse, the loa causes the possessed to manifest certain powers and physical boosts, but also causes them to act in a certain manner. Spirit Warriors gain the buffs but get to keep their minds for the most part, save for certain disadvantages or quirks they have to take to keep in tune with the spirit.

Legba: Papa Legba, known as Eleggua in Santeria and syncreticized with Saint Anthony in Catholic Voodoo traditions, is the lord of the crossroads. He is given notice before any other loas are interacted with, and his position at thresholds and barriers such as the one between the spiritual and material worlds mean In-Betweeners earn his ire as usurpers of his domain. While he resembles a frail old man hunkered down on a cane, Legba is actually one of the strongest of the loas, and in Santeria he is seen as a spirit of war as well as thresholds and knowledge. You can call on Legba to open many doors, as he is capable of imparting exceptional talent at picking locks, bypassing electronic security, or hacking computer systems. Mounts of Legba gain prodigious strength and act like an elderly man, sometimes spasming or going stiff.

Damballa and Ayida-Wedo: Damballa the sky father and Ayida-Wedo the rainbow serpent are a coupled pair of loas who always appear together. The wedded serpents bring forth prosperity through material wealth, passionate love, and fertile water and plants. If manifesting, Damballa appears as a grand serpent such as a python or king cobra, while Ayida-Wedo streaks forth as a rainbow-colored serpent of energy. Mounts of the pair become strong, swift, talented at swimming and climbing, and either climb to a high perch or sway in place; they never speak, instead hissing like a snake or making clicking noises. Even a Spirit Warrior cannot fully overcome the urge of the serpent, and speaks in slurred hissing sentences.

Erzulie: Erzulie (or more accurately Erzulie Freda) is the loa of beauty, sensuality, and femininity, coming to people in the dream world to seduce them or dominate them. She can also take the form of a mother whose "beauty is marred by savagery and madness" and a vengeful crone who dual-wields snakes as part of a maiden-mother-crone triad – these are references to actual loas in the Erzulie family, albeit reductive in nature – but rarely does so. Those made Mounts by Erzulie gain one of the three affectations from the quote I used to open up this post and act in a stereotypically feminine way and engage in various erotic maneuvers, and gain a bit of a boost to Strength and Dexterity, minor damage resistance, and a lot of the Charisma advantage. Spirit Warriors of Erzulie are also saddled with the Lecherous disadvantage, and must wear makeup and women’s clothing regardless of their gender as part of their oath.

Obatala: Obatala the Sky Father is our first orisha of Santeria and Candomble, the god of creation and spiritual purity. In Yoruba tradition, human atypical genetic conditions such as spinal deformities and albinism came into existence because Obatala was drunk on palm wine during one of the days he was making humanity from clay, and as such he considers them his sacred children in penance. While this story isn't mentioned in GURPS Voodoo, the book nonetheless notes that Obatala is fond of albino people and often takes them on as Spirit Warriors. Mounts of Obatala get some extra Strength and Health, damage resistance, and immunity to disease, and only wear white clothing. His Spirit Warriors always wear white as well, and are obsessive about cleanliness.


Chango: The loa of fire, volcanoes, and lightning, Chango is said by some Voodoo Initiates to be one of the gods of modern science as well. He is both a lover and a fighter, going at both with full force, and is usually wielding a sword or double-headed axe. If you need something done with fire, electricity, firearms, or explosives, he's your loa. Chango's Mounts are very strong, durable, and swift, and they both speak with a booming voice and perform dangerous acts with hot objects without coming to harm. His Spirit Warriors become lecherous and ill-tempered.

Orunla: Another orisha of Santeria, Orunla is rarely encountered. This mysterious spirit of time and divination resides in the dream world as a presence consisting of memories of the past and visions of the future constantly rolling together in a tumultuous fog. He spends most of his time chatting about matters of philosophy and fate with Legba, and unsurprisingly doesn’t take on Mounts or empower Spirit Warriors. He can be channeled to let his voice be heard, however, and you can implore him to give you a helpful vision.

Ogun: Ogun, or Oggun, is a particularly widespread spirit, being found in the religions of both the Dahomey and Yoruba peoples, Vodou and its offshoots, and Santeria and Candomble. He's a powerful warrior who has dominion over fire, smithing, metal, technological advancement, and self-powered vehicles. While violent and impulsive, he is also thoughtful and passionate, and is called upon alongside Legba and Ochosi to ward off disease and curses. Those that are Mounted by Ogun become strong, swift, and fit, and begin to wave around the closest weapon (or nearest thing that can be improvised as one) while swearing up a storm and affecting the mannerisms of a soldier. His Spirit Warriors must take on a hefty social burden, becoming bloodthirsty, overconfidence, and prone to constant profanity.

Ochosi: The orisha of hunting, wild places and the life therein, and healing, Ochosi's a pretty good guy to have on your side. He's not a particularly big fan of the Lodges, but he hates Corruptors with a burning passion, and is willing to let his followers work with Lodge members if it means the successful destruction of a Corruptor. Ochosi doesn't Mount people, but is willing to impart his power to Spirit Warriors, giving them greater strength, agility, durability, and spatial awareness, skills in surviving in the wilderness and tracking both creatures and people alike, and adeptness at using throwing weapons. The Spirit Warrior becomes both impulsive and overconfident, however.

The Guede Triad: The last entry in this section actually covers three loas that have the same manifestation stats and mostly similar mechanics otherwise. You've probably heard of one of them already: Baron Samedi, the loa of death whose undertaker-like outfit and white skull facepaint belie the fact that he's a crude and jovial figure who is fond of practical jokes, alcohol and cigars, and making lewd jokes. Also present is Baron Cimitie/Cimitiere, who puts on an affectation of aristocracy in spite of having the same crudeness as Samedi, and Captain Zombi (who I’m assuming is supposed to be Baron La Croix, the last of the three traditional leaders of the Guede), who sometimes wears military formal wear and is generally a bit less rude than his compatriots. Those Mounted by the Guedes gain prodigious strength and durability and are party animals who love to make obscenities, steal food and drink away from people holding them, and generally enforce the idea that life's too short to not live it up. Some resent Baron Samedi, however, for the fact that his image was used by Papa Doc Duvalier and his cronies. A Guede's Spirit Warrior is a liar, kleptomaniac, and obscene to a fault, but their acceptance of the inevitability of death makes them one of the most fearless warriors against In-Betweeners and Corruptors.



Next Time: Western spirits, angry spirits, evil spirits, and not-quite-spirits.

Fossilized Rappy fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 8, 2017

kommy5
Dec 6, 2016

Night10194 posted:

Basically the bad guys in fantasy gotta step up their game because they're up against pissed off landschneckts with fabulous hats, Literally The Hero of An Arthurian Romance, biological robots created by a starfaring race ages ago, Okay Elves Aren't Anything Special And That's The Joke, and good dorfs.

Not just the quality of the good guys, but Chaos actually has competition in Fantasy in terms of villainy. I mean, Nagash makes an extremely credible world threatening Big Bad and his vampiric creations also have the benefit of being full of character and interesting to engage with. Skaven actually make plans and have an industrial base in addition to being the whacky villain of the setting. Malekith and his Dark Elves compete with Chaos in terms of who can wear the most black spikes and write edgy stuff in blood. And orcs are gonna orc.

In 40k, there are still Orks and Dark Eldar and Tyranids. But they aren't generally allowed to have their own setting defining storylines and tend to be weaker in terms of characterization.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Evil Mastermind posted:

Still as timely as ever.

I know I've said this before, but the thing about "shocking" is that it has no value. It's not making you think, or making a point, or jostling me out of my straight-laced normo way of thinking; it's just trying to get an automatic emotional rise of some sort out of you. But 99.9% of the time they're just lazy "transgressive" BS, and when you have a lot of "shocking" things in a row diminishing returns kick in hard.

It's the tabletop version of the jump scare. Which someone (Perhaps a standup comedian) likened to a standup comedian tickling people. "See? You laughed! I'm funny!"

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

JackMann posted:

Oh? Have the authors done other lovely things, or is this just based on the other lovely things we've seen in AAH so far?

For some reason my very tired brain last night, between the awful traced art and the fetishes on display, just went "Oh, that must be the Witch Girls Adventures folks, I don't need to like, check or anything, it's obvious."

That's where bad game trauma led my brain.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007


Chaos is kinda the one main thing I don't like about the Warhams setting: there's not a lot of mystery to it, it feels "solved" in a way that even 40k doesn't. You find something dark and deep below the mountain? Its gotta be chaos related. Morghurs true nature? Some chaos thing. The Horned Rat? A chaos god. Hashtuts big plan? Chaos chaosing. And Chaos itself is pretty lame.

Like in Total War Warhammer if you click on a chaos general sometimes they growl "Beyond your comprehension!". And it struck me one day that this would actually be kind of intimidating/intruiging if I didn't know what was going on here, if people went north and no-one knew why and sometimes they came back wrong. But instead I know it's some dweeb who liked murder/disease/loving/???? so much they became a GWAR backup singer.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

RentACop posted:

Chaos is kinda the one main thing I don't like about the Warhams setting: there's not a lot of mystery to it, it feels "solved" in a way that even 40k doesn't. You find something dark and deep below the mountain? Its gotta be chaos related. Morghurs true nature? Some chaos thing. The Horned Rat? A chaos god. Hashtuts big plan? Chaos chaosing. And Chaos itself is pretty lame.

Like in Total War Warhammer if you click on a chaos general sometimes they growl "Beyond your comprehension!". And it struck me one day that this would actually be kind of intimidating/intruiging if I didn't know what was going on here, if people went north and no-one knew why and sometimes they came back wrong. But instead I know it's some dweeb who liked murder/disease/loving/???? so much they became a GWAR backup singer.

The other thing is, not only do you know them, you know the answer. The answer's 'burn the books, don't engage, kill the fucker'. Anything else and you just roll for 'I lose my PC to mutation'. There's no advantage to be gained by knowing anything more than 'Here's who that fucker is, let's kill him.'

At the same time, I like to make the Horned Rat something seperate, Hatshut something the Big 4 don't get, etc. I like to play with the way they try to co-opt everything they encounter to say they *claim* to be behind absolutely everything, and that most of the time it isn't true and there's a lot of much, much deeper and weirder stuff than them out there.

E: There's also stuff you can do with Chaos to make it more fun, but it's all going to depart from canon. Canon Chaos is easily the worst part of an otherwise rad setting, which sucks, because Chaos is super central to the whole thing in canon. And Chaos is all about 'Do not engage with me'. Think about what makes fighting a vampire cool: He (or she) is probably arrogant enough to play little games with you, you banter, you fight their minions, you foil their plans, you learn about them as a character, and you study them to discover their weaknesses. You beat them *by engaging with them as a character* until you give a poo poo about them when you go at them. Chaos? None of that will help you and all of it exists to dick you over.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 9, 2017

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Speaking of the Horned Rat, could you please link the Skaven review? I missed it first time around and now I'm really interested- blame the Bretons.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Kavak posted:

Speaking of the Horned Rat, could you please link the Skaven review? I missed it first time around and now I'm really interested- blame the Bretons.

I am not sure how to link a post because I am terrible at forums but kommy5 is doing it and it started on June 24th. Page 448.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009


Danke schoen!

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Dareon posted:

It's the tabletop version of the jump scare. Which someone (Perhaps a standup comedian) likened to a standup comedian tickling people. "See? You laughed! I'm funny!"
I know I've said this before too, but: jump scares are the fart jokes of horror. You can get one and it's effective and it's fine. Two? You're pushing it a bit, but okay. You make your whole movie of them? Then you're just a lovely hack.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

The Chaos Gods would be better if they were more like the God Hand from Berserk and their champions more like Griffith or Nosferatu Zodd. That series also did the End Times idea better, because Griffith has transformed the world in a fundamental way, so the old world is done but the people still remain and now have to deal with something else. It wasn't just roll credits, nothing to see here no more.

Hell, actually destroying things seems remarkably counter to how the Chaos gods actually behave. How can you have desires, or change things, or kill things, or spread disease, when everything is straight up gone!? Do the Chaos gods actually hate themselves, hate what they do, and want it to just stop already?

marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Aug 9, 2017

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

marshmallow creep posted:

The Chaos Gods would be better if they were more like the God Hand from Berserk and their champions more like Griffith or Nosferatu Zodd. That series also did the End Times idea better, because Griffith has transformed the world in a fundamental way, so the old world is done but the people still remain and now have to deal with something else. It wasn't just roll credits, nothing to see here no more.

Hell, actually destroying things seems remarkably counter to how the Chaos gods actually behave. How can you have desires, or change things, or kill things, or spread disease, when everything is straight up gone!? Do the Chaos gods actually hate themselves, hate what they do, and want it to just stop already?

No, they're just really, really stupid.

Though in the End Times, Slaanesh apparently did everything he could not to help. He didn't want to destroy the world because he liked it and kind of enjoyed getting to mess with it, cementing Slaanesh as the smartest of the 4.

E: One other thing the God Hand have going for them is you HAVE TO SAY YES. Chaos can look at someone saying no to the Behelit or whatever and go 'lol you're ours anyway' if the writers feel like it because they think that's scary.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Aug 9, 2017

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

And really Chaos should be used as an insidious influence to destroy the social order then go Godhand, instead of being generic rip and tear.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
So, is the Warhammer Fantasy 2e stuff worth reading?

EDIT: And if it is, which bits are worth buying?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Rand Brittain posted:

So, is the Warhammer Fantasy 2e stuff worth reading?

EDIT: And if it is, which bits are worth buying?

Core Book, Knights of the Grail, Old World Bestiary, Night's Dark Masters, Realm of the Ice Queen, Tome of Salvation, are the best books. Just Core+Bestiary will do fine.

Realm of Sorcery is also good. Children of the Horned Rat is wild. I actually like Tome of Corruption, it does the best it can with the material, just...the material isn't great. Sigmar's heirs is outright not good and the pre-made adventures and campaign are all genuinely bad.

I also probably rate Tome of Salvation a little higher because I love religious stuff, since I studied religion in grad school my first pass through. I like how messy Warhams polytheism is.

It also depends a lot on what you like. It's a simple, serviceable system that works out of the box, but it's a little older, having been made 12 years ago.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Aug 9, 2017

Crasical
Apr 22, 2014

GG!*
*GET GOOD

Update 10 (Goblinization)

The year is 2021. Suddenly, Trolls.
Without any warning, magical or otherwise, ten percent of the world's population suddenly, violently mutates. This can affect everyone: male, female, adults, children, even babies in utero. They swell, becoming more heavily muscled, larger. They grow large, prominent tusks, and pointed ears. Some become enormous, eight, nine feet tall, with horns and scabby dermal deposits of bone protruding from their flesh like natural armor. The process, called Goblinization, is excruciatingly painful and some of the transformed population lashes out wildly in their throes.

Naturally, everyone flips their poo poo. Dwarf and Elf babies are cute, while Orks and Trolls are monstrous and terrifying. Something needs to be done. The UK, Independant Quebec, and the Czech Republic are the first to offer official proclamations on the matter. Quebec extends full rights and re-affirm citizenship for all Goblinized in its borders… All Francophones, anyway. Quebec doesn’t care if you’re three meters tall and can bench-press motorcycles as long as you speak French like God intended, dammit. Everyone else can gently caress off. The Czech Republic, assuming this is a mutation or outbreak, extends government assistance to the Goblinized. Later that week, in the Dominican Republic, President Joaquim Delmonte, wearing a nice suit that’s been freshly tailored to accommodate the foot in height and fifty pounds of muscle he’s gained, steps out, announcing that yes, he is now an Ork, and that his country will be accepting any and all goblinized immigrants, without prejudice. And The UK….well.

Back in 2007, William and Harry, the two Princes of the royal Windsor family of the United Kingdom, died in an airplane crash. This meant that Charles, Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall, is crowned King Charles III two years later. Three years after that, he would abdicate in favor of his only surviving son, George. The day of Goblinization, the Royal Family sheepishly announced that George VII had died, and no, they would not be showing anyone the body, shove off. To this day it’s a common belief that either one of his attendants mistook him for a monster and killed him, or that he was more coldly murdered because Britain would not have Troll for a king. Either way, WHOOPS REGICIDE. Things go downhill from there.

In Switzerland, officials declare that Goblinization is a disease of unknown origin and that for the safety of the populace all affected must be quarantined. The new German Government seems to concur; public outcry with from the populace leads to the creation of the Mutant Rights Congress being founded in Cologne, which threatens civil unrest in response to the treatment of these metahumans. In Japan, the Imperial State annexed Lagu-Lagu, a volcanic spit of land in the Philippines, and renamed it Yomi Island, beginning to deport ALL metahumans to it, deciding they’re not having any of this ork and troll nonsense and that the elves and dwarves could go along with them. Japan had only one shape, and that was human. Yomi Island started out pretty bad and got worse from there with scarce food and water and little enough medicine that cholera and scarlet fever were rampant. Anyone born with pointy ears, tusks, or horns in Japan was sentenced to a life of poverty and squalor. In America, taking a hint from the other nations, Seattle’s Governor Lindstrom orders the Metroplex Guard to round up the Goblinized and to place them in the internment camps that the city had used to hold the Native American population only a few years before.

It takes a while for the pendulum to start to swing the other way. Months later, public sympathy for the infected takes root. More groups like the Mutant Right’s Congress spring up and an article written in Time Magazine by a man named ‘McBean’ speaks about the effects that Goblinization had had on his childhood friend, Matt. This creates an increased groundswell of support that portrays the Orks and Trolls as tragic victims rather than monsters. It’s not much but at least it’s a start and enough impetus that Texas Governer Melissa Santiago-Ortega throws her support into strong-arming the welfare board into providing more funding to the metahuman detention centers, forcing them to pay to ensure that each inmate is being provided adequate shelter, food, and sanitary facilities.

The year rolls around to 2022, and Switzerland passes a new law, expanding their previous judgement on Orks and Trolls: Now ALL metahumans were to be stripped of civil rights and Citizenship, per the Metahuman Segregation Law (MSL). Several Swiss-French cantons strongly oppose the MSL, and choose to secede from Switzerland, forming the Confederation Suisse Francophone. Race riots rage all around the world and in Los Angeles they choose to emulate the ‘Success’ of Berlin by just building a wall around the worst part and leaving it to burn itself out. The walled ghetto is renamed ‘Elf Infierno’ by its residents. The riots continue with a new target: a VITAS epidemic causes another riot when suspicions of a vaccine being hoarded escalate into a massive firestorm that levels the neighborhood of Watts. But in Germany continued violence is enough to force the German government to relocate from Berlin to Hannover, fleeing the city and leaving its walled-off anarchist population behind to contend with the racists on their own.

The pro-human, anti-metahuman sentiment reaches the point that Dunkelzahn’s chosen Interpreter (Dragons cannot speak human language in their natural forms and Dragonspeech, the psionic/magical form of direct-to-mind speech they use, is disorienting, so often they will use an interpreter to speak on their behalf) is targeted for assassination. The interpreter, John Timmons, is killed but as the assassin chose to attack during a public speaking event, Dunkelzahn immediately vaporizes the man in retaliation. A few months later, the world is shocked when a twenty-three year old dwarf woman, Elena Mondino, arrives at a police station claiming that she had just escaped from an underground laboratory hidden under Johns Hopkins Institute of Health. Upon investigation Elena’s claims prove to be true, with a hidden high-tech laboratory secreted away in the sub-basements beneath the building, where inhumane, brutal experiments were being performed on metahumans in an effort to expand scientific knowledge. Disappointingly, the scientists mostly escape justice: though the Institute has government funding pulled, it persists as an independent, for-profit organization.

It’s not really until a year later, in 2023, that public opinion of Goblinization as a disease starts to ebb. Orks and Trolls are still feared and hated, but science is increasingly proven that they are another manifestation of UGE, not a plague. This is reinforced when another surge of VITAS washes over the land, killing another 10% of the world’s population, Orks and Trolls included. Seeing as how they die like the rest of us, the US Supreme Court rules to grant equal rights of Metahumans of all stripes. In a reactionary move, the Humanis Political Club (Policlub) is formed the same year, based on the tenants of community, tradition, and racism. In another move towards the same Portugal experiences a manifestation of the Virgin Mary during a visit by Pope John XXV (who despite being a moderate, has upheld his predecessors declarations on the nature of magic and metahumans). This event reinforces those declarations, creating a deepening rift in the Catholic Church, with the Portuguese Catholics now strongly supporting the old and current pope’s mindset. Ultimately, while not imprisoned any longer, the fate of metahumans in this new world is still extremely shaky.

Despite Goblinization happening, and being a pretty huge driving force for many years, other things happened during this spread of time that should be addressed. On the corporate side of things, with the increased adoption of old Aztec symbolism and culture by Aztlan in an effort to reclaim their glory days as an empire, ORO corporation decides to rename itself Aztechnology, a massive rebranding campaign flaunting their new, highly cultural self. They even begin construction of a themed corporate building in Seattle, an enormous aztec-style stepped pyramid made of vat-grown quartz blocks with interior illuminators, going from an enormous stone edifice during the day to a glowing monument of light at night. Meanwhile the Inter-Corporate Council buds off a new entity, the Internetwork Transmission Control Council (ITCC), to replace the FCC as a self regulating oversight body for the management of the communications industry, including the internet. In another spiel of rebranding, the ICC also transfers to the Freedom space habitat, naming themselves the Corporate Court, and granting itself authority over all Extraterritorial Corporations, expanding on their previous meditative power to being a boardroom where all mega corporations can negotiate and keep the peace.

Back on Earth, Cuba, Jamaica, Grenada, Bermuda, and the Virgin Islands all join together, having been ravaged by VITAS, their governments individually weak enough to have had corporations move in and install themselves as the de-facto powers. With Guadalupe Martinez finally taking up the reins from the deceased Castro in Cuba, they form a League for mutual protection, a larger voice on the world stage and for their ability to bring in educated doctors from the United States (mostly graduates from John Hopkins) to curb the spread of VITAS. In time, Puerto Rico and even South Florida would break off and join the Caribbean League, bringing with them more natural resources and the Miami Metroplex to the table. On the other side of the world Australia and New Zealand similarly choose to partner for mutual benefit, creating the Australia and New Zealand Allied Confederation, or ANZAC. This is, in reality, mostly a defensive pact against an increasingly scary and militarized Japan.

While after the Great Ghost Dance, no-one could really dispute the power of Magic, it was still in the infancy stages of codifications. In 2013, Minneapolis, The Magic Hat had opened: the first private organization for practicing Magicians, a club for those with real magical powers. Three years later, Charles University in Prague establishes the first Hermetic Studies course for studying magic and how it works. When the University of Prague begins offering Arcane Studies in 2022, they are able to boast a special instructor: Professor Schwartzkopf, a Great Dragon and humongous nerd who prefers hoarding knowledge to gold. He takes up residence at the university to pursue his study of a Unified Magical Theory to unite the studied, analytical Hermetic form of magic with the rapturous, instinctive Shamanic Form to prove they are the same. Schwartzkopf prefers his natural form whenever possible, as do many dragons, but eschews the use of a translator, broadcasting his instruction directly into the minds of the students who gather for his lectures. It is also around this time that the term ‘Awakened’, which I have been using throughout this history to refer to the magically inclined, is first coined. As Schwartzkopf pursues his theory, several German mages form the Faustus Society where they campaign for the scientific recognition of analyzed, hermetic magic. They want to find ways to measure, analyze, and approach magic scientifically, to make it a less mysterious force, and to find out what it can and cannot do.

If anyone’s still reading this, Tune in Next Time, as the President gets a third term, The Pope Does a Thing, Seattle gets rid of its police force and Britain gives theirs guns!

Zomborgon
Feb 19, 2014

I don't even want to see what happens if you gain CHIM outside of a pre-coded system.

Crasical posted:

Later that week, in the Dominican Republic, President Joaquim Delmonte, wearing a nice suit that’s been freshly tailored to accommodate the foot in height and fifty pounds of muscle he’s gained, steps out, announcing that yes, he is now an Ork, and that his country will be accepting any and all goblinized immigrants, without prejudice.

I'm imagining this like a state-sponsored pro wrestling promo.

*bursts out from a flag-colored banner, arms raised high and bulging despite the well-tailored outfit*

"It's TIME for a talk about TOLERANCE!"


Please continue these. I've been excited to learn about Shadowrun's world since before this review began, and moreso now.

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wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Humanis, or, the people so hated that you can auction off a list of their donors and live for a year off it.

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