Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
That air dam needs work. And a splitter/front diffuser would be very useful.

This time attack civic from Canada has the right idea



I would probably trim that splitter down a touch, making it rounded and not stick out at the front corners, and I would add some venting to the fenders.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
w2w w/ a spec rulebook

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
The vertical air dams are boring as hell, though functional.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Well I'm sure that he could do better than a plastic sheet basically zip tied to the front of the car within the spec rules.

Here's Andy Forrest's new aero done by Andrew Brilliant. No more big dive planes on the front of his cars; it's now all pretty smooth and streamlined






The big dive planes/canards look cool but from what I understand create quite a bit of drag for not much downforce benefit. The single dive plane mounted high up seems to be a better solution when you don't have a CFD guy designing things for you. And I'm guessing the front end aero on Under's car is going to look different this year

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

jamal posted:

Well I'm sure that he could do better than a plastic sheet basically zip tied to the front of the car within the spec rules.

Here's Andy Forrest's new aero done by Andrew Brilliant. No more big dive planes on the front of his cars; it's now all pretty smooth and streamlined






The big dive planes/canards look cool but from what I understand create quite a bit of drag for not much downforce benefit. The single dive plane mounted high up seems to be a better solution when you don't have a CFD guy designing things for you. And I'm guessing the front end aero on Under's car is going to look different this year



http://supermiata.com/supermiata-rules-regulations/

I also don't know what you're supposed to do with that much front aero and 140whp.

NinjaTech
Sep 30, 2003

do you have any PANTIES

mekilljoydammit posted:

I agree with NitroSpazzz that a plan like that should be fine, but if you had Loynings build it, I'd give them a call to get their opinion.

I'll give them a call, it's hard to get a hold of them a lot though. Also hard to understand Arnie Loyning since he's like 100 and still running the place. haha. So far I think they did really good work but their lack of communication or saying anything about breaking the engine in is pretty annoying.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Well, they might've already done so on the dyno too.

NinjaTech
Sep 30, 2003

do you have any PANTIES

mekilljoydammit posted:

Well, they might've already done so on the dyno too.

I know that didn't happen since they built the head and bottom end separately to keep costs down for me. So I put the head on the block and all the accessories. Otherwise it would have been around $4k vs $2200. Pretty good deal for a "pro" build though. I'm hoping it will help me get close to the front of the mid pack next season. I was doing pretty good with a sick engine before. It's just a bummer that this weekend is the last race weekend of the season for the PNW.

Blaise
Sep 10, 2003
Well, I'm basically a wreck.

Missed first track event this year bc car wasn't done.

"Its OK its only the first event"

Missed next event bc truck wasn't done.

"Its OK I'll get it done"

Missed event a few weeks later because car was broken due to a freak TO bearing failure. Put it back together. Missed next event bc I was trying to be nice and spend a weekend with the gf. Then realized HOLY poo poo ITS END OF JULY SEASON IS ALMOST OVER.

Then my clutch failed again. I was determined to at least make the last 3 events for the year. Pulled the trans last night, solved problem, went to sign up for VIR.

THIS EVENT IS FULL.

Gonna miss 3 events following that due to 2nd job I picked up specifically to pay for this stuff. That puts us into October.

10 years of putting this off and I find myself living on the east coast with access to a dozen tracks and I totally blew it. I've done 2 events an NJMP and one at Pocono. :sigh: What a joke of a season.

*climbs into hole until spring*

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

The Glen in September is calling you. Also I will only be driving that day so I'm very excite.

Blaise
Sep 10, 2003

KidDynamite posted:

The Glen in September is calling you. Also I will only be driving that day so I'm very excite.

I signed up. That and Summit and maybe VIR in October.

:sigh: I really wanted to do a lot of days.

Voltage
Sep 4, 2004

MALT LIQUOR!
I signed up for a bike track day at NJMP in sept - but I want to do at least one in my Miata once I get a rollbar in it - does anyone have a schedule of northeast trackdays for the rest of the year?

Roman Rambo
Dec 21, 2009
Once I succeeded in doing a lot of days, but usually your story is my story. Broken car, cannot fix car in time, break the car at the track and miss the day, kill the car forever, have no money, have no time. This hobby rules except when it really sucks.

Blaise
Sep 10, 2003

Roman Rambo posted:

Once I succeeded in doing a lot of days, but usually your story is my story. Broken car, cannot fix car in time, break the car at the track and miss the day, kill the car forever, have no money, have no time. This hobby rules except when it really sucks.

20 year old girl put her e46 m3 race car into the wall at Pocono last time I was there. Everything past the rear wheel was gone.

I later saw her hand a check to the shop owner who was trailering it back. She said she wouldn't miss a single event.

FML. :cry:

Gigi Galli
Sep 19, 2003

and then the car turned in to fire
I'll be lucky if I get in another track day this year, I only got like, half of one done so far. Weddings :argh:

Blaise posted:

20 year old girl put her e46 m3 race car into the wall at Pocono last time I was there. Everything past the rear wheel was gone.

I later saw her hand a check to the shop owner who was trailering it back. She said she wouldn't miss a single event.

FML. :cry:

I hope this was one that included some track outside the infield because I have no idea where you could even hit the wall on the infield course.

SpaceRangerJoe
Dec 24, 2003

The little hand says it's time to rock and roll.

Roman Rambo posted:

This hobby rules except when it really sucks.

For real.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

Phone posted:

http://supermiata.com/supermiata-rules-regulations/

I also don't know what you're supposed to do with that much front aero and 140whp.

Ha of course it's a speedventures event with those crappy rules. By my reading those hood vents and ducts are possibly illegal?

I'm not sure what it has to do with what the guy with the chevelle is building, pretty sure he's not racing in that series.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

jamal posted:

Ha of course it's a speedventures event with those crappy rules. By my reading those hood vents and ducts are possibly illegal?

I'm not sure what it has to do with what the guy with the chevelle is building, pretty sure he's not racing in that series.

Yeah, the guy who wrote the rulebook is breaking his own rules in his own race series.

I only posted it as an example of what functional venting looks like and how big (or small) the radiator opening needs to be. If you have zero idea how pressure differentials work, you wind up with Vitamin J-esque hole sawing of the hood.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009

Blaise posted:

Well, I'm basically a wreck.

Missed first track event this year bc car wasn't done.

"Its OK its only the first event"

Missed next event bc truck wasn't done.

"Its OK I'll get it done"

Missed event a few weeks later because car was broken due to a freak TO bearing failure. Put it back together. Missed next event bc I was trying to be nice and spend a weekend with the gf. Then realized HOLY poo poo ITS END OF JULY SEASON IS ALMOST OVER.

Then my clutch failed again. I was determined to at least make the last 3 events for the year. Pulled the trans last night, solved problem, went to sign up for VIR.

THIS EVENT IS FULL.

Gonna miss 3 events following that due to 2nd job I picked up specifically to pay for this stuff. That puts us into October.

10 years of putting this off and I find myself living on the east coast with access to a dozen tracks and I totally blew it. I've done 2 events an NJMP and one at Pocono. :sigh: What a joke of a season.

*climbs into hole until spring*

Contact the organizers. Ask if you can fill any last minute cancellations. It's pretty normal for someone's truck to die the day before and call asking for a refund or rain check. If they have someone to fill the slot everyone wins.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

Phone posted:

Yeah, the guy who wrote the rulebook is breaking his own rules in his own race series.

I only posted it as an example of what functional venting looks like and how big (or small) the radiator opening needs to be. If you have zero idea how pressure differentials work, you wind up with Vitamin J-esque hole sawing of the hood.

Oh yeah. In some cases the inlet/outlet can be like a third the size of the cooler.

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE

Blaise posted:

Then my clutch failed again. I was determined to at least make the last 3 events for the year. Pulled the trans last night, solved problem, went to sign up for VIR.

THIS EVENT IS FULL.

You need to expect this at VIR. It has to be a real poo poo show for a weekend event to not sell out instructed groups.

THSCC and NASA are running VIR in the next few weeks, did both already sell out?

BitBasher
Jun 6, 2004

You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.


jamal posted:

Ha of course it's a speedventures event with those crappy rules. By my reading those hood vents and ducts are possibly illegal?

I'm not sure what it has to do with what the guy with the chevelle is building, pretty sure he's not racing in that series.

Yeah, the Chevelle ought to drive better than it has any right to, but I think giant aero like that is aiming a little high. It's primarily a driving around car.

And thanks everyone for the aero information that's what I was looking for, I had it exactly backwards regarding front of hood instead of back. My welder may do hood venting while he is doing metalwork. The issue is I'm not sure if the 2 inch cowl hood I have no will be enough clearance at the end of the build. If not I may end up venting a second hood later.

That Vorshlag link tells me that I think my chassis choice will save me a poo poo ton of aggravation in exchange probably for cash. A dedicated frame with a purpose built suspension should really help things. That said holy poo poo I have a lot to consider here. I may see if I can pay for some consult time with a professional as soon as the car is mobile.

Also RE the Vorschlag build I was hoping for a LOT more subtle areo than that. I was hoping for a front air dam that doesn't look horribly out of place. So now it looks like I'll vent the hood and eventually do runs and pull data to determine what I need to do to keep it stable up to 165 eventually. After I get the car finished I have to run the SSCC/NORC twice more at a max speed of 124 and then 140 before I can get to the 165 max speed class anyway. I will probably do at least one low(ish) speed run at 90 or so my first time regardless.

Those potentiometers look better than me cobbling poo poo together, and probably better than ultrasound ones. That Vorschlag also helped me find a wiper motors set that mounts inside the firewall on my car, so that's pretty nice as a little bonus.

Blaise
Sep 10, 2003

Gigi Galli posted:

I'll be lucky if I get in another track day this year, I only got like, half of one done so far. Weddings :argh:

I hope this was one that included some track outside the infield because I have no idea where you could even hit the wall on the infield course.

Yep, she hit the wall entering the outfield. HARD. Really really hard.

Weddings is what keeps me away sometimes too but only because I'm working them to pay for this stuff (photographer). I quit attending weddings as a guest a long time ago.

honda whisperer posted:

Contact the organizers. Ask if you can fill any last minute cancellations. It's pretty normal for someone's truck to die the day before and call asking for a refund or rain check. If they have someone to fill the slot everyone wins.

I'm on the list of course. Just upset because OBVIOUSLY VIR would fill up. Obviously.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
... the idea of running out of spots is weird to me; road racing stuff never fills up. poo poo, I'm sitting and looking at the entry list for Elkhart next weekend and there's all of like, 60 people signed up across 6 run groups.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
yeah its cause racing is 10x as expensive as a track day

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

BraveUlysses posted:

yeah its cause racing is 10x as expensive as a track day

10x? That's being generous.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
What are entry fees for HPDE/trackday stuff like anyway?

I mean, the big expenditure is going to be tires anyway, but just out of curiosity.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

mekilljoydammit posted:

What are entry fees for HPDE/trackday stuff like anyway?

I mean, the big expenditure is going to be tires anyway, but just out of curiosity.

The cheapest I've seen is like $90 at thunderhill or buttonwillow. $300+ for popular weekend days at leguna seca.

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




There's a local track that does something they call Time Trials (it's like bracket racing for road courses and they strap a transponder on your car and you dial in a time, neat idea) so you get a few sessions for $75 during any of the race weekends. Probably not as many sessions as a normal track day ($150-200 last time I ran one many years ago here in the midwest) but you can beat the price.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm

mekilljoydammit posted:

What are entry fees for HPDE/trackday stuff like anyway?

I mean, the big expenditure is going to be tires anyway, but just out of curiosity.

It varies by region and company, but in Arizona it's $80-180. Chuckwalla is ~$150. I've heard stuff in Washington is like $400-500/day.

What really gets me is that the amount of track time at most of these things is nothing compared to motorcycles. I can go pay $180 and ride an open session day at Chuckwalla or Thunderhill and ride until I can't see straight, or the other popular setup is 20 minutes every hour from 8am to 5pm.

Cars? I get four or five 15 minute sessions... and there are more people on track.

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Aug 11, 2017

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Huh; normal entry fee for wheel to wheel is about $250 with Midwestern council, plus $150 for each additional run group you sign up with. About an hour and a half of track time (the last of that being the actual race) per day per run group you sign up with. I think it might be $350 for Elkhart Lake.

Of course, let's not talk about the cost of the Purple Crack.

Gigi Galli
Sep 19, 2003

and then the car turned in to fire
In the northeast US I've never paid less than $250 or more than $350. I only ever run with NASA though.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad


Glamping out here in the oval of Thompson cuz there's no more room in the paddock. Car isn't here yet and we're halfway into the pre-Lemons track day. I still haven't driven it yet :ohdear:

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Budgeting about $600/weekend (+/- 100) just to be at the track, gas, food, and maybe a hotel depending on how close you are to the track has been my experience.

Things like consumables are all over the map, and you'll have to figure out how many events you can get out of your brakes and tires.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
... so ignoring things like that you can't dual purpose a car for it, it doesn't seem like wheel to wheel racing is actually *that* much more expensive. But then maybe I'm biased, and Midwestern Council is cheaper than SCCA.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
I left out that's for a DE weekend, whoops.

W2W is similar expense wise for a weekend outside of the need for R7s. It's also structured differently since you might only be out on track for a total of 2 hours across a weekend (20 min warm up, 15 min qualifying, 25 minute race), whereas the DE sweet spot seems to be aiming for about 2 hours/day.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


NitroSpazzz posted:

As far as actual costs... We average $1000 a weekend which goes to registration, fuel and consumables. That's doesn't include hotel, travel costs or food. When we started we didn't have anything as far as pit equipment, fuel jugs or a clue wtf we were doing. Total cost for buying pit stuff and building the car to get to our first event was very close to $10k. There are teams who have done it for less but that seems to be a pretty average number from the teams I've talked to.

From budget talk a while ago for running Chump events. It'll be interesting to see how prices compare when I get the new car on track.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

mekilljoydammit posted:

What are entry fees for HPDE/trackday stuff like anyway?

I mean, the big expenditure is going to be tires anyway, but just out of curiosity.

I do (very) grassroots Time Attack and the entry fees are $265-$365 Canadian. I have mostly stock, old cars so consumables are manageable.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Corner worker 1: did you work Lemons last year?
C2: yeah
C1: was it as much of a fiasco as they say it is? I've seen it on YouTube
C2: oh yeah. You see some hosed up poo poo. It's... unique.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm
Went to Musselman Honda Circuit this afternoon for the first time, it was an evening / night trackday. Opted to pay for the transponder because why not, but I hadn't intended to do the casual time attack competition; changed my mind when I saw where I was at laptime wise after the first session. Qualified 3rd and took home TT-B 2nd place out of 12.

I love this loving car. It tells me when I'm being a pussy (read: off throttle) by pushing the front, but as soon as you get back in the gas it goes right back to kicking rear end... I've never driven anything as well set up as it is.

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Aug 13, 2017

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply