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Its 2 dimms per channel, 2 channels per die, 2 dies per package. One die can reach across the IF to access the dimms associated with the other die, but it gets a hefty hit (40%+) to bandwidth and latency in doing so. Thats why the software needs to understand NUMA for many workloads, so it doesnt stash something for die 1 in the memory banks of die 2. For non memory sensitive things, it doesn't matter as much (hence AMD offering the option to turn NUMA off) As for a theoretical 1900x, im pretty sure AMD has said that due to the interconnects, they have to build in even pairs. It would also make lots of other things more complicated, from power delivery, to NUMA, to heat dissipation, to do an imbalanced design. Then again nobody expected them to make TR literally Epyc with some silicon dummy dies, so who knows.
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Aug 11, 2017 04:35
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Epyc uses two pairs of different dies, right? Which combination does TR use? One of each?
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Aug 11, 2017 06:23
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Epyc is 4 zen dies, Threadripper is 2 zen dies. One die to rule them all
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Aug 11, 2017 06:36
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TR and Epyc have different interposers at a minimum as far as I know. The interconnect layout is different. The "spacer" dies are there purely for the mechanical stability of the IHS.
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Aug 11, 2017 06:39
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repiv posted:Someone on /r/amd noticed a clever trick AMD are using on Epyc (and probably Threadripper) I'm talking about this. What pair of the four dies does AMD replace with dummies?
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Aug 11, 2017 06:52
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I'm talking about this. What pair of the four dies does AMD replace with dummies? In the Gamers Nexus video about cooler contact, they say that AMD Said that the dies that will be activated are diagonal from each other. They will be the same die on all TR units. Which diagonal set of die has to be determined yet. https://youtu.be/QpvGYxaMLc0 SlayVus fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 07:17
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lol
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Aug 11, 2017 07:46
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SlayVus posted:In the Gamers Nexus video about cooler contact, they say that AMD Said that the dies that will be activated are diagonal from each other. They will be the same die on all TR units. Which diagonal set of die has to be determined yet. Based on that information and the die shot, a casual outside observer might note that depending on which dies are active, there is either a dummy you have to hop between when going from active core to active core, or going from active core to socket. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 09:52
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So not many people have been discussing the lack of thunderbolt on AMD platforms. I think that will suck more then many people think for laptops, particularly as accessories are developed for it. And some categories such as external GPUs are completely off limits.
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Aug 11, 2017 12:05
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...I mean, there's nothing stopping OEMs from using a discrete Thunderbolt controller, right? That's how device makers have had to do it all this time, it wasn't until _May_ of _this year_ that Intel declared that they were going to start integrating Thunderbolt directly into their CPUs. https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/envision-world-thunderbolt-3-everywhere/ This is some kind of weird holding AMD to a different standard, imo.
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Aug 11, 2017 12:45
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SwissArmyDruid posted:...I mean, there's nothing stopping OEMs from using a discrete Thunderbolt controller, right? That's how device makers have had to do it all this time, it wasn't until _May_ of _this year_ that Intel declared that they were going to start integrating Thunderbolt directly into their CPUs. https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/envision-world-thunderbolt-3-everywhere/ AFAIK all of the existing discrete Thunderbolt controllers still need an Intel PCH in order to function. That's why PCI-E TB3 cards require this extra cable that hooks up to a proprietary header on the motherboard:  Whether this connection serves an actual purpose or is just there to lock out AMD and older Intel platforms is anyone's guess though. repiv fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 12:55
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Sri.Theo posted:So not many people have been discussing the lack of thunderbolt on AMD platforms. I think that will suck more then many people think for laptops, particularly as accessories are developed for it. I heard the same thing about Firewire
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Aug 11, 2017 15:01
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With all those PCIe lanes, who gives a F about thunderbolt. Apple can use it for their garbage with no expansion. Maybe PCs can go back to being highly expandable self contained boxes. The foofoo mobile warriors can play with tunderbolt dongles and whatever.
redeyes fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 15:25
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Sri.Theo posted:So not many people have been discussing the lack of thunderbolt on AMD platforms. I think that will suck more then many people think for laptops, particularly as accessories are developed for it. The one possible thing that gets most anyone sorta excited about TB here, much less actual non-PC enthusiasts who don't even care much about this at all, is the possibility of using it to connect a external GPU to a laptop and even that is a fairly niche use case. Honestly even that, and the other really high performance, niche(s) might not exist for TB that much longer given 20Gbps USB3.2 is coming, probably in late 2018 at the earliest, but still it kinda throws a damper on things. Yeah TB3's 40Gpbs will still beat it but TB1, 2, and 3 have been faster than USB3 for years and it hasn't helped it much at all similar to like how Firewire was faster than USB2 but it still ended up in the dustbin of history. Fastest isn't the same as "best" since transfer rates are just 1 part of a pile of things that factor into which might be "best" for most.
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Aug 11, 2017 15:30
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redeyes posted:With all those PCIe lanes, who gives a F about thunderbolt. Apple can use it for their garbage with no expansion. Maybe PCs can go back to being highly expandable self contained boxes. The foofoo mobile warriors can play with tunderbolt dongles and whatever. Thunderbolt isn't an apple thing. Professionals use thunderbolt for equipment. No matter how cheap amd makes a 32 core cpu if it doesn't have thunderbolt its a no go for groups of people.
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Aug 11, 2017 15:37
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Don Lapre posted:Thunderbolt isn't an apple thing. Are these the same professionals that are locked into the mac trashcan?
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Aug 11, 2017 15:38
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Risky Bisquick posted:Are these the same professionals that are locked into the mac trashcan? You can buy thunderbolt 3 pc's. Unless their equipment is mac only ive seen a number of people moving to TB3 pc's.
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Aug 11, 2017 15:43
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Don Lapre posted:Thunderbolt isn't an apple thing. What are these people doing that requires Thunderbolt?
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Aug 11, 2017 15:44
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repiv posted:AFAIK all of the existing discrete Thunderbolt controllers still need an Intel PCH in order to function. That's why PCI-E TB3 cards require this extra cable that hooks up to a proprietary header on the motherboard: with those 5 WIRE connectors, there is no way that's anything more than some dumb spi connection, which i can only surmise is a way to go 'Oh btw are you an intel thing?" or to change over pcie lanes on the fly which is dumb since theres no reason why that cant be a part of the handshaking for the card (unless theres no way of piggybacking that over the pcie connection???) e: Apparently the pinout is "Ground, Platform Sequence Control, Platform Sequence Control, Plug Event, Power"
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Aug 11, 2017 15:47
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Measly Twerp posted:What are these people doing that requires Thunderbolt? Professional audio equipment.
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Aug 11, 2017 15:52
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I'd say the thunderbolt thing is only a requirement for those salivating over an eGPU. It also seems pretty "easy" for apple to implement TB on chipset. Isn't AMD's APU design really going to be the key thing, at least for laptops?
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Aug 11, 2017 15:54
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Dell has been doing Thunderbolt docks on all of their newer business class laptops for a couple years, as far as I can tell. Heck, I'm using one right now. Granted, they probably aren't about to put AMD in their business line, but, yeah, Thunderbolt is a thing outside of Apple trashcans and donglebooks.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:22
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priznat posted:gently caress youuuuuuu, NCIX! I recorded the prices on Newegg.ca from yesterday. $1,019.99 1920X $1,269.99 1950X today, $1,099.99 1920X $1,369.99 1950X WHY.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:31
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Eyochigan posted:I recorded the prices on Newegg.ca from yesterday. Because they are a business and not a charity.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:32
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Munkeymon posted:Dell has been doing Thunderbolt docks on all of their newer business class laptops for a couple years, as far as I can tell. Heck, I'm using one right now. Granted, they probably aren't about to put AMD in their business line, but, yeah, Thunderbolt is a thing outside of Apple trashcans and donglebooks. The $300 Dell Thunderbolt docks are my company's corporate-endorsed solution for the Macbook Pros having no ports. Because Apple won't build monitors or docks anymore, we've got a bunch of Macs hooked up to Dell everything else.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:36
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Single cable docking solutions are very good, and that's a very good use case for TB3. Multiple drives, monitor, and peripherals all connected through one cable.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:38
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Eyochigan posted:I recorded the prices on Newegg.ca from yesterday. Because people want to buy them.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:53
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:with those 5 WIRE connectors, there is no way that's anything more than some dumb spi connection, which i can only surmise is a way to go 'Oh btw are you an intel thing?" or to change over pcie lanes on the fly which is dumb since theres no reason why that cant be a part of the handshaking for the card (unless theres no way of piggybacking that over the pcie connection???) TB3 is designed to be able to carry HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.2 signals which means, yup, it has to have draconian DRM handshakes and poo poo thanks to our friends in the cable and movie industries. I imagine thats part of the reason you get dumb cables and the like involved. Intel opened up the TB3 spec recently and made it non exclusive and royalty free. Someone could theoretically put an Alpine Ridge controller on an AMD board, they cost about $8 each, but you would still need a license. Intel has said they want to make it ubiquitous, but they didn't specifically say they would offer licenses for AMD boards so I guess its still a hanging question at the moment.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:00
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You can also do some really cool things with Thunderbolt to create are more simplified endpoint device for peripherals; check 10:46 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NshXgisNly4&t=646s Also makes switching between desktop and laptop and using your laptop as a workstation a lot easier, or at the very least cooler.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:00
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If a technology doesn't work for my use case i dont see a reason it exists.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:04
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wargames posted:Because people want to buy them. Still priced 799/999 on Newegg.com  Just seems like a dumb idea to raise prices because it's popular. It's popular because it's affordable. I wasn't going to buy threadripper anyways but it cements the argument for the much more affordable 1700.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:11
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NewFatMike posted:Single cable docking solutions are very good, and that's a very good use case for TB3. Multiple drives, monitor, and peripherals all connected through one cable. It'd be cooler if the cables could be extended or were more than a meter long, but it's progress. ufarn posted:You can also do some really cool things with Thunderbolt to create are more simplified endpoint device for peripherals; check 10:46 in this video: No Faraday cage around the server room? 
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Aug 11, 2017 17:13
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Don Lapre posted:Professional audio equipment. While some of them are locked into Thunderbolt already, the major audio stuff I've seen always comes with either a USB variant or a PCI card variant on top of Thunderbolt.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:16
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Don Lapre posted:Professional audio equipment. What about a PCIe Thunderbolt card? Do those work when low latency is required? There is definitely pro audio gear that uses Thunderbolt at the high end, but there's actually a lot more that uses USB. Anarchist Mae fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 17:17
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Measly Twerp posted:What about a PCIe Thunderbolt card? Do those work when low latency is required? PCIe thunderbolt cards still require motherboard support.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:23
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Measly Twerp posted:What about a PCIe Thunderbolt card? Do those work when low latency is required? The gnarliest of the gnarly uses an ethernet port. I like saying things that I know.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:26
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 I don't even have any other parts yet, going to be waiting until the 18th at least. ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:While some of them are locked into Thunderbolt already, the major audio stuff I've seen always comes with either a USB variant or a PCI card variant on top of Thunderbolt. Was just in a studio yesterday where everything was using cat7/"10g" for interconnect, the other option was fiber  fake e:fb
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Aug 11, 2017 17:26
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I wonder what kind of DPC latency Threadripper mobos have. Audio people surely would want to know.
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Aug 11, 2017 18:17
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redeyes posted:I wonder what kind of DPC latency Threadripper mobos have. Audio people surely would want to know. Audio people are going nuts for even the base 1700s. Prior to the AGESA update that fixed the IOMMU and sleep bugs, it was really bad (like 80-200 to even 700 in some cases, for whatever reason), but now you can find plenty of tests from 1600-1800X with 20-70ms using AISO on most any board. The B350's seem to be preferential to the 370s, like the "feature boards" lend themselves more readily to configuration errors with their fancy audio chipset/drivers? I've had a few producer friends stop by and try to make this 1800X sweat with MaxMSP/Ableton, it's a challenge to even use more than 50%, even with several notoriously hungry VSTs at the same time. Like who the gently caress is going to record 128 tracks at the same time?? It wasn't until we also started also doing VJ poo poo that we started hearing some crackling / buffer underruns, at 85-90% utilization. This was at 4.2ghz/1.45v w/ 2x16 DDR4-3000, using two UMC404HD's for 2x(2x2 stereo) recording/processing input at 24/96, and also pulling in 2x720p60 & 1x1080p60 video feeds while encoding a 720p60 stream @ 3000kbps/fast preset of all 3 webcams + desktop + master audio out. Also had two other MacBooks using ableton's sync thing to match up clocks, they were expecting that to die real quick but it never puked once. I'm on one of those AX370-Gaming 5's or whatever now, was careful not to install the audio drivers or the "fatality KILLER NIC" bullshit. I have a feeling it would actually go quite a bit further, especially if you had additional NVMe drives in raid, and maybe spent some time micromanaging which apps are running on which cores. I've seen a few posts that indicate firmware updates for AGESA 1.0.0.7(?) are a ways out, and not to expect firmware updates for at least a month. Here's to hoping they're solid out of the gate, as this is one of the things I'm waiting for other people to figure out before I buy a motherboard. 
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Aug 11, 2017 19:04
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Aug 11, 2017 20:38
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