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NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015

Cygni posted:

One of the leaked Raven Ridge APUs looked to be roughly an Xbox One graphics config (704 shaders at 800mhz for Raven Ridge vs 768 at 853mhz in Xbone, but an older shader design), but i think that was a desktop part.

15in Macbook Pro's use a 15w CPU + ~30w GPU (thats roughly the same number of shaders even) and has fairly bad thermal throttling, so 45w is probably the outer edge of the window if you want to get into reasonable sized laptops. 45w is normally the TDP of intel's biggest mobile-specific CPUs too.

Still great for SFF stuff, hopefully the ****HQ or ****HK equivalent models for mobile will be 80-90% of the desktop models combined with Freesync 2 panels.

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Measly Twerp posted:

He has this way of making interesting things unlistenable.

No, haircut is right. There's plenty of people in the tech review space with no charisma. Burke just looks slimy, like I can see the no showers in a month and so on.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

....considering room temp is 22C, 20C is impossible unless its out in the arctic or something.
My room with a computer is often 58f-62f (14.5c-16.5c) in the winter.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I love Gamer's Nexus and think the delivery is great, better than most tech shows.

Especially Linus'

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



Paul MaudDib posted:

They get more poo poo about being anti-AMD than I do.


Not sure that's possible! :haw:

Eyochigan
Dec 13, 2006

It's not rape unless I explicitly see it!

Arivia posted:

No, haircut is right. There's plenty of people in the tech review space with no charisma. Burke just looks slimy, like I can see the no showers in a month and so on.

Steve Burke looks like he could hold his own in Quake, a nerd's nerd.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!
I always read techpowerup first and it's almost entirely because of their graphs. Having nice neat charts of performance, performance/W, and performance/$ is something everyone should do.

wargames
Mar 16, 2008

official yospos cat censor

PerrineClostermann posted:

I love Gamer's Nexus and think the delivery is great, better than most tech shows.

Especially Linus'

GN gave us a 20 minutes of details, Linus seemed to have made the video as sort as possible as to not piss off amd with bad press. Really out of a 7 minute video 2 minutes was intro and exit ads.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Look at the viewership numbers for Linus versus every one else though.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

wargames posted:

GN gave us a 20 minutes of details, Linus seemed to have made the video as sort as possible as to not piss off amd with bad press. Really out of a 7 minute video 2 minutes was intro and exit ads.

I guess this is the kind of softball review a couple exclusive Vega previews buys you. (it's infinitely hilarious that Steve Burke sperg-bombed this deal for AMD)

They're dividing the cost of the Vega 64 upgrade and the bundle cost into the whole system so it looks better ("look it's only another 10% on your total system cost!"). I wonder what this chart looks like drawn with the GSync tax instead :thunk:



repiv posted:

Speaking of Linus, remember when he called Vega FE a piece of garbage and promised to tear it a new one in his review.

Funny how that review never got posted after AMD threw several exclusive previews and a Holocube his way :allears:

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Aug 15, 2017

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Why does that graph show values for prices less than the MSRP of the cards?

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

wargames posted:

GN gave us a 20 minutes of details, Linus seemed to have made the video as sort as possible as to not piss off amd with bad press. Really out of a 7 minute video 2 minutes was intro and exit ads.

I mean in general.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer
So, what's the possibility of like ASRock or someone else making a mATX or ITX Mobo with all the M.2 slots on the back? I know you probably couldn't do 8 DIMM slots, but you could probably take full advantage of all 64 PCI-E lanes on mATX.

Anarchist Mae
Nov 5, 2009

by Reene
Lipstick Apathy

wargames posted:

GN gave us a 20 minutes of details, Linus seemed to have made the video as sort as possible as to not piss off amd with bad press. Really out of a 7 minute video 2 minutes was intro and exit ads.

All of LTTs recent videos have spent exactly 2s of screen time for each graph. They've basically become worthless as reviewers.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
I'm pretty impressed with the Ryzen performance for business purposes. I think it's the first time in years I've been enthusiastic about a cpu. Seems like an afforable way to get a lot of cpus with better floating point performance than intel.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

Devian666 posted:

I'm pretty impressed with the Ryzen performance for business purposes. I think it's the first time in years I've been enthusiastic about a cpu. Seems like an afforable way to get a lot of cpus with better floating point performance than intel.

That makes a lot of sense, Ryzen is the first compelling new thing we have seen in desktop CPUs since Sandy Bridge or so. Hopefully this lights a fire under Intel and we see some real innovation from both sides over the next few years.

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

That makes a lot of sense, Ryzen is the first compelling new thing we have seen in desktop CPUs since Sandy Bridge or so. Hopefully this lights a fire under Intel and we see some real innovation from both sides over the next few years.

My workload is CFD so it's pretty easy to create a mesh for each virtual cpu and of course what I run is so archaic that it uses Fortran so every node has at least 10 floating point variables. A 1950X could theoretically reduce the run times by 75% compared with my quad core xeon. There's a big cost jump between an 1800X and a 1950X (including the cost of the motherboard) so I'll have to think about this for a while.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

That makes a lot of sense, Ryzen is the first compelling new thing we have seen in desktop CPUs since Sandy Bridge or so. Hopefully this lights a fire under Intel and we see some real innovation from both sides over the next few years.

Perhaps we'll see a new, inventive form of rebate for manufacturers?

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

PerrineClostermann posted:

Perhaps we'll see a new, inventive form of rebate for manufacturers?

Yeah, but gone are the days of bribing Dell, HP, and E-Machines to lock in 90% of the market. CPU sales are gonna be on the Cloud providers and backend, and because of them much more likely to be subject to increased scrutiny by people willing and able to call them on their bullshit. Also after the EU Intel anti-trust ruling, they're going to be at least a little bit more circumspect than 'never use our competitor ever and get 20% off our chips'.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I dunno, Intel seems to be able to appeal that ruling indefinitely.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

PerrineClostermann posted:

I dunno, Intel seems to be able to appeal that ruling indefinitely.

Yeah, but 'we literally did the exact same thing you're fining us for again' can curtail the appeal some. Not sure how the EU appeals system works, but that would be the kind of flagrant disregard for the law that would get a judge to issue penalties.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012

NewFatMike posted:

Still great for SFF stuff, hopefully the ****HQ or ****HK equivalent models for mobile will be 80-90% of the desktop models combined with Freesync 2 panels.

GF's process nodes seem to be way more efficient at low voltage and clocks and I don't think Vega will change that one bit, but raw shader power has never been the issue. DDR4 gets us half way to not choking the iGPU to death but the hype around Vega for me was the TBR/DSBR implementation which seems pretty underwhelming right now.

It might be down to the HBM2 memory controller severely underperforming and I'd like to see some testing done on this, but I don't think AMD can properly feed 11CUs at 800 mhz.

Edit: now that I've looked at it more, Vega has less effective memory bandwidth than Fiji while still outperforming it by a decent margin :staredog:

That bodes well for Raven Ridge even if Vega is pretty poo poo.

Arzachel fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Aug 15, 2017

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!
Yea, Raven Ridge is going to be sitting at like 900mv to 1.05v, and based on the GN review Vega is performing way outside it's voltage spec which is causing the absurd power draw; Vega is able to boost past 1600Mhz @ 1.09v and is able to hit 1520Mhz @ 1.025v and power draw drops 50-60W while clocking effectively higher than stock. It's also yet again a very bottlenecked design, with the differences between the XL and XT versions being clock differences. I don't think we can draw too many comparisons between Vega 10 and Raven Ridge yet, if AMD releases Vega 11/12 before Raven Ridge we will have a very good idea.

In turn Zen is really good at lower clocks and voltages, so while I expect some 45W solutions I'm also expecting AMD to get some nice 25W, 15W and 5W solutions that still perform really well.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012
From Anandtech's Vega review:

quote:

On a related note, the Infinity Fabric on Vega 10 runs on its own clock domain. It’s tied to neither the GPU clock domain nor the memory clock domain.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo


Tenatively: Maybe that's what's causing the problems, we will have to see, but at least we know that Zen+ or Zen2 should be less dependent on memory.

Eyochigan
Dec 13, 2006

It's not rape unless I explicitly see it!

Devian666 posted:

My workload is CFD so it's pretty easy to create a mesh for each virtual cpu and of course what I run is so archaic that it uses Fortran so every node has at least 10 floating point variables. A 1950X could theoretically reduce the run times by 75% compared with my quad core xeon. There's a big cost jump between an 1800X and a 1950X (including the cost of the motherboard) so I'll have to think about this for a while.

If you're spending money, make it worthwhile. You could save money now, or save time later. Is it worth upgrading from what you have to an 1800x? Why not a 1700?

When I upgraded my graphics card from my r290, I asked myself if it was worth spending $300-400 for a card that barely eeks out my old card, or 700 for a card that beats it by a fair margin. I spent a grand and got a 1080 ti instead, because the performance per dollar with the initial cost (300 to break even) made it the best choice.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

SwissArmyDruid posted:



Tenatively: Maybe that's what's causing the problems, we will have to see, but at least we know that Zen+ or Zen2 should be less dependent on memory.

That would be the shifftiest 10% performance uplift ever. "Hey guys looks like our VBIOS has been running the Infinity Fabric at half speed this whole time!"

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.
All the stuff for my 1700 build arrived . Apart from the memory which ebuyer haven't even shipped yet...

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

Eyochigan posted:

If you're spending money, make it worthwhile. You could save money now, or save time later. Is it worth upgrading from what you have to an 1800x? Why not a 1700?

When I upgraded my graphics card from my r290, I asked myself if it was worth spending $300-400 for a card that barely eeks out my old card, or 700 for a card that beats it by a fair margin. I spent a grand and got a 1080 ti instead, because the performance per dollar with the initial cost (300 to break even) made it the best choice.

A good question. All of the CPUs I'm using for work and home (excluded my laptop) are all getting rather old (the memory in my workstation is DDR3 - I'm assuming this is rubbish by today's standards). An 1800x would be a major upgrade and with the fast floating point could be a leap forward that's faster than what I'm expecting.

Why not a 1700? I am prepared to pay for higher clockspeed and prefer not to overclock. Overclocking on a multithreaded job that could take up to a week to complete is a commercial risk if it's unstable.

Mofabio
May 15, 2003
(y - mx)*(1/(inf))*(PV/RT)*(2.718)*(V/I)

Devian666 posted:

A good question. All of the CPUs I'm using for work and home (excluded my laptop) are all getting rather old (the memory in my workstation is DDR3 - I'm assuming this is rubbish by today's standards). An 1800x would be a major upgrade and with the fast floating point could be a leap forward that's faster than what I'm expecting.

Why not a 1700? I am prepared to pay for higher clockspeed and prefer not to overclock. Overclocking on a multithreaded job that could take up to a week to complete is a commercial risk if it's unstable.

Could I make an alternative suggestion for your CFD workload?

http://natex.us/S2600CP2J-Custom/

That, plus 2x E5-2670's, and 128GB of ECC DDR3 on 8 memory channels = 16 cores and 80-120 Gb/sec (edit: typo+realism) of memory bandwidth for ~$750. You can compare it to threadripper, but I don't think it can match the old dual Sandy Xeons in memory bandwidth per dollar. Assuming your current workstation memory is ECC you have spare parts there, and could even pick up a backup motherboard, and still stay under $1k.

Mofabio fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Aug 16, 2017

Menacer
Nov 25, 2000
Failed Sega Accessory Ahoy!
Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure that's roughly 80 GB/s of peak DRAM bandwidth assuming you're stuffing it with PC3-10600.

Mofabio
May 15, 2003
(y - mx)*(1/(inf))*(PV/RT)*(2.718)*(V/I)
Could be. Was going off https://ark.intel.com/products/66133/Intel-Server-Board-S2600CP2J

Mofabio
May 15, 2003
(y - mx)*(1/(inf))*(PV/RT)*(2.718)*(V/I)
dubba post

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.

Devian666 posted:

Why not a 1700? I am prepared to pay for higher clockspeed and prefer not to overclock. Overclocking on a multithreaded job that could take up to a week to complete is a commercial risk if it's unstable.
The main issue with Ryzen as a dedicated CFD workstation is the lack of quad-channel memory, so even at the same-clock TR is likely to be superior.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

How to use a torque driver correctly: https://clips.twitch.tv/HyperInventiveTubersSaltBae

:stonklol:

Wirth1000
May 12, 2010

#essereFerrari

Uhh...

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

loving morons. :ughh:

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.
Pretty sure he put at least 3x the effort into tightening that thing I did on my loving giant Noctua cooler
How did he not realize he was using too much force?

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Don't torque-shame.

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Wirth1000
May 12, 2010

#essereFerrari

Malloc Voidstar posted:

Pretty sure he put at least 3x the effort into tightening that thing I did on my loving giant Noctua cooler
How did he not realize he was using too much force?

I guess if you're a twitch streamer it means you're worthless at literally everything else in life... including basic tool usage like a god drat screwdriver.

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