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And even if Kellner had still decided, "Nah, wrestling's not suited for where we want to take the Turner networks", they would have been more likely to find another network if they were still doing 4.0+ numbers instead of hovering at 2 (which was still good for cable, but not so great you'd be a fool to turn them down.)
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Jul 30, 2017 04:28
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One forgotten thing about WCW is by the end it was advertiser poison. Bischoff had slowly been able to give it a decent enough image and gotten some OK sponsors and ad rates for the time. That all vanished in 99 and especially 2000 due to the ratings decline and the raunchy product. They lost some huge accounts in 2000 due to Russo's product including one valued at half a million.
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Jul 30, 2017 07:03
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Endorph posted:if they had been second place, wouldn't they have still been killed by the aol merger? aol might still have kicked them out but remember that bischoff genuinely did try to find investors and had talks with some interested parties before they all fell through; it's not hard to believe that if they hadn't destroyed themselves and were still doing OK ratings and ad buys someone would be willing to pick them up.
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Jul 30, 2017 07:30
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When WCW was hot, they were at the top of the world, but I have an extremely hard time trying to imagine a WCW that wasn't relying on stars from the 80's to carry the company.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:28
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Well WCW probably would have been like tna and just using whatever cast off's WWE had no use for. Really TNA may have been a decent indicator to how WCW would have progressed had vince not bought them.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:38
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TNA's is both WCW's bastard son and true successor, like Vincent Corleone
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Jul 30, 2017 16:08
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The Croc posted:Well WCW probably would have been like tna and just using whatever cast off's WWE had no use for. Really TNA may have been a decent indicator to how WCW would have progressed had vince not bought them. Really doubtful since everything Bischoff was saying and doing contradicts it. The signings he made at the time for the new WCW were hot indie names and the next wave was going to be guys like Corino, Styles and RVD from ECW. He was passing on the WWF castoffs from the time. He may have gone back on this initial strategy but he seemed committed to a youth movement.
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Jul 30, 2017 16:39
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welcome to MORE new blood rising
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Jul 30, 2017 18:01
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I've seen that porno
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Jul 30, 2017 18:08
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I was so into reading PWTorch and getting all the scoops on Fusient/Bischoff as WCW was dying. I was really into WCW at the time, I wished they had kept it going somehow
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Jul 30, 2017 21:33
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Here's something you've never seen before - highlights from the first Ilio DiPaolo Memorial Show in Buffalo (6/7/1996): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43O0F30BXtU It was the biggest paid crowd that WCW had done in YEARS at that point Ilio's family used to sell a DVD of his matches at their restaurant and this was an extra on it This was a week after Scott Hall showed up on Nitro, for historical context
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Aug 6, 2017 00:31
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this flair having a heart attack angle was loving stupid why didnt someone stop them? also i got 2 weeks left in 98 + starrcade. 99 is coming up baby!!!!!!
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Aug 16, 2017 09:01
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ribtstu posted:this flair having a heart attack angle was loving stupid why didnt someone stop them? also i got 2 weeks left in 98 + starrcade. 99 is coming up baby!!!!!! Bischoff disliked Flair because Flair missed a show to attend his kid's high school (?) wrestling event, Flair claimed he gave fair notice, but Bischoff was sore anyway and since he wasn't part of the Hogan/Nash/Hall club he was routinely buried despite still being insanely over. The continued misuse of Ric Flair is one of the recurring themes in WCW's downward spiral. (And Flair, good trooper that he is, still gives his all with every promo and does his best to sell you whatever bullshit they've got coming up.)
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Aug 16, 2017 19:35
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Maxwell Lord posted:Bischoff disliked Flair because Flair missed a show to attend his kid's high school (?) wrestling event, Flair claimed he gave fair notice, but Bischoff was sore anyway and since he wasn't part of the Hogan/Nash/Hall club he was routinely buried despite still being insanely over. The continued misuse of Ric Flair is one of the recurring themes in WCW's downward spiral. thanks for the context and yeah flair gave a killer promo right before all the silly stuff, he's been hot on the mic since coming back
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Aug 16, 2017 19:37
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Maxwell Lord posted:Bischoff disliked Flair because Flair missed a show to attend his kid's high school (?) wrestling event, Flair claimed he gave fair notice, but Bischoff was sore anyway and since he wasn't part of the Hogan/Nash/Hall club he was routinely buried despite still being insanely over. The continued misuse of Ric Flair is one of the recurring themes in WCW's downward spiral. WCW sued Flair for breach of contract over the missed date and Flair counter sued. It wasn't just a "burial" they were very much tied up in legal battles. But yeah the story was that Ric went to one Reid's wrestling meets after getting clearance from the office, and was then last minute booked onto a Thunder that he no-showed.
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Aug 16, 2017 20:02
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exploded mummy posted:WCW sued Flair for breach of contract over the missed date and Flair counter sued. Bischoff buried the gently caress out of him backstage and said he was going to bury him.
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Aug 16, 2017 20:08
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MassRafTer posted:Bischoff buried the gently caress out of him backstage and said he was going to bury him. Didn't they have an angle where they literally buried him in the desert?
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Aug 16, 2017 20:29
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bobkatt013 posted:Didn't they have an angle where they literally buried him in the desert? Was that in the same general time frame as when Flair went to an insane asylum and met Scott Hall or am I not able to keep up with WCW madness
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Aug 16, 2017 20:32
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MassRafTer posted:Bischoff buried the gently caress out of him backstage and said he was going to bury him. My point was it went way past bad booking and badmouthing and that there was an actual lawsuit. bobkatt013 posted:Didn't they have an angle where they literally buried him in the desert? He was buried in the desert late 99 early 00, I think. It was in Russo's first stint, so there was about a 4 month window. RZApublican posted:Was that in the same general time frame as when Flair went to an insane asylum and met Scott Hall or am I not able to keep up with WCW madness That was during Flair and Piper's seemingly neverending feud that was in early 99 after he became WCW president and started power tripping.
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Aug 16, 2017 20:48
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Some of the segments Flair was involved in in WCW are the Edgy 90s equivalent of magic potions and mysteriously cool waterfalls, only far less entertaining.
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Aug 16, 2017 21:04
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Would flair have worked in WWf in 98-01? Or would he just have been jobbing and putting mid carders over?
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Aug 17, 2017 06:59
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I can say almost with certainty he would not have been treated as badly as he was in wcw.
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Aug 17, 2017 08:12
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I have a feeling he would have been relegated to manager status as he was more or less was for most of his WWE career, but for someone less important to the company than Triple H, and then gone shortly after.
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Aug 17, 2017 08:17
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Cornette said Flair was close to jumping over as a main eventer during his contract dispute but his lawyer wasn’t confident that he’d be able to get out of his WCW contract and he ended up staying put.
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Aug 17, 2017 08:44
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dont even fink about it posted:I have a feeling he would have been relegated to manager status as he was more or less was for most of his WWE career, but for someone less important to the company than Triple H, and then gone shortly after. I doubt that as wasn't it Triple H who wanted to work with him? I also think he was not hated by Stone cold and he had no major beef with Vince.
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Aug 17, 2017 08:52
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bobkatt013 posted:I doubt that as wasn't it Triple H who wanted to work with him? I also think he was not hated by Stone cold and he had no major beef with Vince. I just don't know that this would have been enough in 99-01 to keep him on the shows as anything but a comedy act. Triple H is a Ric Flair tribute act so it might have worked out regardless.
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Aug 17, 2017 10:39
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dont even fink about it posted:I just don't know that this would have been enough in 99-01 to keep him on the shows as anything but a comedy act. HHH is the biggest Flair mark ever though. They would have found something for him.
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Aug 17, 2017 11:11
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dont even fink about it posted:I just don't know that this would have been enough in 99-01 to keep him on the shows as anything but a comedy act. Ric Flair was still an awesome talker. I think he could have pulled one last IC run off, and stuck around as a big deal upper carder. If he'd palled up with the Radicals who needed a talker like Rick. Well, Eddie didn't but he couldhave worked tagging with Benoit or Saturn as an odd couple.
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Aug 17, 2017 11:17
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The American Dream posted:Would flair have worked in WWf in 98-01? Or would he just have been jobbing and putting mid carders over? Flair was going to be Austin's first major feud after he won the belt in 1998, but they couldn't come to terms - this was during Flair's falling out with Bischoff
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Aug 17, 2017 14:36
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Not entirely related but Flair/Bischoff Nitro '98 might have been WCW's last great feud.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:41
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so who is willing to spend ~$24 on this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Wrestling-Loot-WCW-Monday-Nitro-Confidential-Format-Monday-December-21-1998-/291789086878?hash=item43effc209e
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Aug 17, 2017 15:02
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bobkatt013 posted:I doubt that as wasn't it Triple H who wanted to work with him? I also think he was not hated by Stone cold and he had no major beef with Vince. Triple H was a public Flair basher during the Attitude era. Feels Villeneuve posted:Not entirely related but Flair/Bischoff Nitro '98 might have been WCW's last great feud. That feud was horrible. If you've watched it in the last 19 years I fear for your sanity.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:04
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It ended horribly but it was always going to end horribly. I just love anything based in reality like that, and admire that it's very similar to Austin/McMahon but somehow doesn't even seem close to a ripoff of that feud.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:06
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Fun fact: In a 98 radio interview, Triple H said Flair should just retire
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Aug 17, 2017 15:10
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To put it another way I think most people would put the high-water-mark of WCW at like, the night before Starrcade '97 or something, but for me it was "FIRE ME I'M ALREADY FIRED"
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Aug 17, 2017 15:19
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St Evan Echoes posted:Fun fact: In a 98 radio interview, Triple H said Flair should just retire
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Aug 17, 2017 17:31
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flair/bischoff on the last nitro of 98 was good poo poo. starrcade 98 sucked
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Aug 17, 2017 17:41
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Feels Villeneuve posted:It ended horribly but it was always going to end horribly. I just love anything based in reality like that, and admire that it's very similar to Austin/McMahon but somehow doesn't even seem close to a ripoff of that feud. It didn't just end horribly, it was horrible for months. The promo was in mid September, the "blow off" was the night after Starrcade 98 (since Bischoff won at Starrcade.) In between it drags and drags and gets so dumb. Then the feud continues with Bischoff having to do Flair's bidding, Flair getting kidnapped and left for dead by the nWo, the First Blood Barbed Wire Cage match, etc. It starts with two good promos and from there gets so bad with maybe two more great Flair promos? It's one of the worst feuds WCW ever did.
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Aug 17, 2017 18:24
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Counterpoint, it was good.
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Aug 17, 2017 18:27
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One of the things the Wednesday Nitros have been doing has been cementing my appreciation of Flair as GOAT, because he is being given utter poo poo to work with, and still every single promo is like YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS FIGHT IT WILL BE INCREDIBLE. "MEAN GENE! MY GOD! THIS SUNDAY!" He's the best salesman ever. It took that stupid insane asylum plot to make him even marginally less over. (Also I notice that he, like, sold and did jobs clean and put other guys over every so often. Part of that may have been having so little influence, but still he comes off as way more professional than Hogan ever was.)
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Aug 17, 2017 18:44
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