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mod sassinator posted:Yeah the other gotcha with clicky wrenches is to not store them wound up in a heavily loaded state OR unwound and with no load. Like for the HF 1/2" wrench that goes from 20-200 ft. lbs or so I keep it stored at 30-40 ft. lbs. If you store it at high load like 100 ft. lbs. it will deform the spring over time, and apparently if you store it with no load components can shift around and it loses accuracy. I wouldn't worry or lose sleep over it though if you've stored it like that in the past--very likely the stuff you're using it for, like lug nuts, etc., don't really need ultra precise torque. Tightening head bolts into an aluminum block.. ok maybe time to pull out the spendy torque wrench that matters and treat it with kid gloves. Ah yes the age old "springs go bad if stored under load", to this day I wait for conclusive evidence from either camp.
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Aug 18, 2017 07:02
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah the other gotcha with clicky wrenches is to not store them wound up in a heavily loaded state OR unwound and with no load. Like for the HF 1/2" wrench that goes from 20-200 ft. lbs or so I keep it stored at 30-40 ft. lbs. If you store it at high load like 100 ft. lbs. it will deform the spring over time, and apparently if you store it with no load components can shift around and it loses accuracy. I wouldn't worry or lose sleep over it though if you've stored it like that in the past--very likely the stuff you're using it for, like lug nuts, etc., don't really need ultra precise torque. Tightening head bolts into an aluminum block.. ok maybe time to pull out the spendy torque wrench that matters and treat it with kid gloves. Darn good advice. I view torque wrenches not so much as super ultimate accurate tools (Obviously you wouldn't want one that was +/- 20% or whatever) but for their consistency. Set your wrench to 100 ft/lbs and it is off 5%? Not the end of the world to have something torqued to 105, and all the other bolts should be close to 105.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:20
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C-Bangin' it 
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Platystemon posted:That makes more sense. I've been working on a head gasket job on a Subaru. Outside of the head bolts, I've been using mainly the 1/4". I generally find the duty as: 1/2" - wheels and suspension, 1/4" anything that threads into alloy, and 3/8" for everything else (accessories that bolt into iron/steel/use nuts. Colostomy Bag posted:Darn good advice. Yep. I use them for things that need to be flat, things that I really don't want to strip out, or to fall off. My oldest wrench is about 15 years old (Husky 3/8" clicker). I wonder how far off spec it is...
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Aug 18, 2017 16:14
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Boys who love boys
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monsterzero posted:
Yeah, never really thought much about it since I don't do super precision work. I have one that does inch pounds but haven't used it in forever. Car Craft ran a comparison of the HF several years back. Found it fairly accurate. Of course take it with a grain of salt because who knows how many suppliers they've blown through in the meantime so YMMV. But yeah, doing a TTY fastener on a $5K block, you bet your sweet bippy I'd spring for that Snap-On supercomputer torque wrench. Speaking of HF, got a few coupons clipped. Got to pick up some random crap, getting ready for the rubber smell buzz walking in the door.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:30
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Just as a quick thing on torque wrenches, CDI clickers are pretty darn good - I think Snap On bought them for the clicker end of the wrenches, actually.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:33
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And I think Matco basically came out with a device that turns every ratchet into a precision torque wrench. Cool device. But the funny thing is, try fitting some of these things into places you can't (yeah yeah, get the joke) too.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:42
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Colostomy Bag posted:Yeah, never really thought much about it since I don't do super precision work. I have one that does inch pounds but haven't used it in forever. I'm pretty sure that smell is pure concentrated China. Every HF smells like it.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:59
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Colostomy Bag posted:And I think Matco basically came out with a device that turns every ratchet into a precision torque wrench. Cool device. Torque adapters have been a thing for a while, I've found them to be really cumbersome and just as expensive as a dedicated torque wrench.
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Aug 18, 2017 18:22
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SEKCobra posted:Ah yes the age old "springs go bad if stored under load", to this day I wait for conclusive evidence from either camp. I can see if you stored it fully loaded for a long time, but what-the-gently caress-ever in normal usage. Springs are designed to spring back, time after time. Fatigue will wear them out, but sitting unloaded or partially loaded isn't going to make any meaningful change in the material. Hell, the oil/grease inside hardening over time is probably more of a problem. I leave mine wherever they were last used, and call it good. If they drift 1%/year, I'll likely drop or break them long before that exceeds the natural +/-5% variation the cheap wrenches have from the factory.
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Aug 18, 2017 19:04
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bolind posted:To me it seems like a lot of torque wrenches are almost the same design. They used to be $100+ at the very least, but you can get good ones for close to half that these days, and a cheap one for, like, $20. Nothing too involved. Lug nuts, brakes and miscellaneous stuff. Thanks for all the suggestions, guys! Sounds like I need to take a look at the HF and CDI clickers.
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Aug 18, 2017 20:24
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sharkytm posted:I can see if you stored it fully loaded for a long time, but what-the-gently caress-ever in normal usage. Springs are designed to spring back, time after time. Fatigue will wear them out, but sitting unloaded or partially loaded isn't going to make any meaningful change in the material. Hell, the oil/grease inside hardening over time is probably more of a problem. I leave mine wherever they were last used, and call it good. If they drift 1%/year, I'll likely drop or break them long before that exceeds the natural +/-5% variation the cheap wrenches have from the factory. I mean on one hand, every manufacturer of every click type torque wrench says to store them unloaded or it can damage the spring, but on the other, some random people on the internet said it's not a problem, so....
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Aug 18, 2017 20:38
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hey look i'm just some guy on the internet and i'm not going to buy another torque wrench because i left this one set at 75lb-ft for the last 2 years big torque wrench industry just wants you to buy more wrenches 
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Aug 18, 2017 20:40
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Man, you guys should read about leaving magazines loaded and you'll find this point discussed to exhaustion. I have no ball in this game, but I think it's funny that so many people regurgitate the whole spring weakening stuff when there is seemingly just as much evidence against it.
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Aug 18, 2017 20:42
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Always put your car on axle stands if parking it for more than a few hours, or you will wear out your springs prematurely.
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Aug 18, 2017 21:25
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Alternatively, remove the engine and interior to reduce the load on the springs and protect them from plastic deformation. 
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Aug 18, 2017 22:03
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Car springs are different size, material, and stiffness compared to small precision springs--your point? You realize springs are different and characterized by how much deflection they take before permanently changing right?  By all means do whatever you want with your torque wrenches--I'm sticking with what the manufacturer who built the thing recommends (keep them unloaded in the case).
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Aug 18, 2017 22:08
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mod sassinator posted:Car springs are different size, material, and stiffness compared to small precision springs--your point? You realize springs are different and characterized by how much deflection they take before permanently changing right? Not really related to the discussion at hand but I'm curious, are they actually different materials? i.e. not a steel thats: Carbon, C 0.70 - 1.0 % Iron, Fe 97.8 - 99 % Manganese, Mn 0.20 - 0.60 % Phosphorous, P <= 0.025 % Silicon, Si 0.10 - 0.30 % Sulfur, S <= 0.030 % And of the tensile requirements in ASTM A228?
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Aug 18, 2017 22:41
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EKDS5k posted:I mean on one hand, every manufacturer of every click type torque wrench says to store them unloaded or it can damage the spring, but on the other, some random people on the internet said it's not a problem, so.... mod sassinator posted:Yeah the other gotcha with clicky wrenches is to not store them wound up in a heavily loaded state OR unwound and with no load. Like for the HF 1/2" wrench that goes from 20-200 ft. lbs or so I keep it stored at 30-40 ft. lbs. If you store it at high load like 100 ft. lbs. it will deform the spring over time, and apparently if you store it with no load components can shift around and it loses accuracy. https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/News-Events/Blog/entryid/428/Default I've yet to see any actual research or data that show that leaving them tightened does anything damaging. The manuals also say you should exercise them 3x at 100%, or 3x at 50% then 3 at 100%, or once at 20%, once at 50%, and seventeen and a half times at 94.421%while wearing those Christmas socks that your granny have you when you were in grade school. Oh, you lost those? What an ungrateful bastard child.  If you're using them in a situation where exceeding 4% error is going to be a problem, then get the wrench calibrated every year. I've worked at companies that do this, and mysteriously the only failures are stuff that got dropped, over-torqued, or wet.
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Aug 19, 2017 00:25
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah the other gotcha with clicky wrenches is to not store them wound up in a heavily loaded state OR unwound and with no load. Like for the HF 1/2" wrench that goes from 20-200 ft. lbs or so I keep it stored at 30-40 ft. lbs. If you store it at high load like 100 ft. lbs. it will deform the spring over time, and apparently if you store it with no load components can shift around and it loses accuracy. I wouldn't worry or lose sleep over it though if you've stored it like that in the past--very likely the stuff you're using it for, like lug nuts, etc., don't really need ultra precise torque. Tightening head bolts into an aluminum block.. ok maybe time to pull out the spendy torque wrench that matters and treat it with kid gloves. I always store my torque wrenches unwound, yeah. I've got a nice Snap-On for most important stuff but I need some smaller ones too.
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Aug 19, 2017 03:04
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I have the 1/2" and 3/8" AC Delco digital torque adapters and I friggin' love them.
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Aug 19, 2017 05:28
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mod sassinator posted:Car springs are different size, material, and stiffness compared to small precision springs--your point? You realize springs are different and characterized by how much deflection they take before permanently changing right? The spring inside my torque wrench isn't a clock spring, it's a fairly massive thing. And I would assume that an engineer designing precision equipment would overspec to the point where (according to wikipedia) springs don't permanently change even if under load.
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Aug 19, 2017 09:43
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I got a $75 gift card from work for helping with a project and decided to use that to order a Power Probe 3. I have heard a lot of good things about them and I'm excited to tinker with it.
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Aug 19, 2017 17:28
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Y'all need to learn about material creep. Yes all materials do it and yes they can be compensated for. Most things that have creep factored in are stuff near their melting point in extremely high stress environments like nuclear reactors, hot sections of jet engines, and rocketry components. Mechanical design of springs also considers life cycles. These are generally measured in the 10,000s, 100,000s, millions and can even be designed for infinite life without fatigue.
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Aug 20, 2017 14:29
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um excuse me posted:Y'all need to learn about material creep. Yes all materials do it and yes they can be compensated for. Most things that have creep factored in are stuff near their melting point in extremely high stress environments like nuclear reactors, hot sections of jet engines, and rocketry components. Mechanical design of springs also considers life cycles. These are generally measured in the 10,000s, 100,000s, millions and can even be designed for infinite life without fatigue. This was my point. Springs don't deform unless they're bright to their yield point, or are cycled to death.
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Aug 20, 2017 17:17
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Alright hot shots then why does my clicky torque wrench say this in its manual: Are you telling me you're more of an expert than the manufacturer that built the wrench?
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Aug 20, 2017 17:53
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mod sassinator posted:Are you telling me you're more of an expert than the manufacturer that built the wrench? Every mechanic I know stores them unloaded, that and the manufacturers instruction is good enough for me.
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Aug 20, 2017 18:41
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sharkytm posted:This was my point. Springs don't deform unless they're bright to their yield point, or are cycled to death. Steel doesn't have limited cycles, though, does it? I thought that as long as it stays within yield limits for a given temperature, steel won't develop fractures or permanently deform. I mean, if it did, wouldn't valve springs in an engine that was sitting for years just lose their strength? Serious question, I'm not a mech eng or materials scientist, just a nerd who does Internet research.
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Aug 20, 2017 19:05
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HandlingByJebus posted:Steel doesn't have limited cycles, though, does it? I thought that as long as it stays within yield limits for a given temperature, steel won't develop fractures or permanently deform. I mean, if it did, wouldn't valve springs in an engine that was sitting for years just lose their strength? Serious question, I'm not a mech eng or materials scientist, just a nerd who does Internet research. I had to do a bunch of research on an over the head lifting device. Steel shouldn't weaken, but there were life cycle specifications to take into account things like wear on the welds and damage and such. Basically, if you don't load it anywhere near the yield strength, the specs said you'd get infinite life. The closer to yield you got, the less long the specs said you should continue to use the device for safety reasons.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:25
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Uthor posted:I had to do a bunch of research on an over the head lifting device. Steel shouldn't weaken, but there were life cycle specifications to take into account things like wear on the welds and damage and such. Basically, if you don't load it anywhere near the yield strength, the specs said you'd get infinite life. The closer to yield you got, the less long the specs said you should continue to use the device for safety reasons. That makes perfect sense, thanks. 
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Aug 20, 2017 20:26
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Picked this up today for free!
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Aug 20, 2017 23:19
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Did the guy you got it from TALK LIKE THIS by any chance?
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Aug 20, 2017 23:22
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No, but the person who's house I got it from may be meeting him sooner than later. Also picked up a pair of ancient pipe wrenches too.
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Aug 21, 2017 00:44
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Rubiks Pubes posted:I got a $75 gift card from work for helping with a project and decided to use that to order a Power Probe 3. I have heard a lot of good things about them and I'm excited to tinker with it. Be careful now you use it or you will let all the electrical smoke out. I love mine and use it almost as much as my test light. But a test light is more useful to me in many situations.
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Aug 21, 2017 01:18
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clam ache posted:Be careful now you use it or you will let all the electrical smoke out. I love mine and use it almost as much as my test light. But a test light is more useful to me in many situations. Yeah, that was what I was worried about (frying stuff) but I'll be careful with it. Should I get the accessory kit with all of the extra probes and poo poo?
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Aug 21, 2017 02:38
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Rubiks Pubes posted:
The age-old question. Better to have it than to be without (within reason.) If an incremental cost that doesn't affect your food or rent or a six pack of beer...eh, that's sorta my point of view.
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Aug 21, 2017 02:52
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It's getting pretty crazy here near the "path of totality." People are scalping cardboard glasses for $25+ but I walked out of Airgas with a stack of shade14 filters for $1.50 each like any other day.  Feels good to get to use my grandpa's helmets for something since I'm a baby who can't lay boogers without auto-darkening.
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Aug 21, 2017 04:17
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SEKCobra posted:Man, you guys should read about leaving magazines loaded and you'll find this point discussed to exhaustion. I have no ball in this game, but I think it's funny that so many people regurgitate the whole spring weakening stuff when there is seemingly just as much evidence against it. You mean stuff like this: Posted by a goddamned marketing director? Where they "tested" four torque wrenches? If you're going to call it "evidence," then it has to have things like model numbers, torque ranges, and what sort of measuring equipment was used to test them. Was the measuring equipment calibrated properly? Who even did the measuring? An actual tech who knows how to use it, or a random salesman? Also lol at quote:At the end of the month the results showed (bar one single result) that all the readings taken were within the ISO tolerance of 4% of reading "One single result" out of four is 25% failure. And he didn't say if was a loaded or unloaded wrench that failed. Which means that if it was the loaded, then 50% of the loaded wrenches were out of calibration after a month. If it was an unloaded one then it doesn't reflect well on the quality of their wrenches. Regardless, four torque wrenches is statistically nothing. SEKCobra posted:The spring inside my torque wrench isn't a clock spring, it's a fairly massive thing. And I would assume that an engineer designing precision equipment would overspec to the point where (according to wikipedia) springs don't permanently change even if under load. Or maybe a strong spring that only ever sees say 30% or it's maximum strength isn't as accurate as a weaker one that gets used up to 90%. Without a build sheet, or a spec on the spring, or some design document there is nothing to support that this is the case. Besides, from a purely cost point of view, it makes more sense to use a weaker spring and then tell everyone to leave it unloaded. Assuming the manufacturer has got your back when they explicitly state that they don't is just  clam ache posted:Be careful now you use it or you will let all the electrical smoke out. I love mine and use it almost as much as my test light. But a test light is more useful to me in many situations. Aren't they pretty idiot proof? The one I have has a manual circuit breaker on the front that trips reliably on anything over 8 amps, but even the manual has a graph that shows how long it''ll run at higher currents, ie: 1 second at 10A, .5 seconds at 12A, etc. I use it to test headlights and other high draw stuff all the time, and all I have to do is push the little button back in. The newer ones even have a user-replaceable rocker switch that can be popped out with a screwdriver. As long as you don't try to run a higher voltage than it's rated for (I have the 12-24V one, but they also make one for only 12V) you should be fine for most things.
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Aug 21, 2017 05:25
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I've had multiple people calling and walking in looking for "welding supplies". Its been adorable to watch their face when I ask if they're looking for stuff for the eclipse before they ask. Then delicious Schadenfreude when I tell them that our shade 12 replacement lenses are special order from the factory and our auto darkening helmet is $130. Watching their rollercoaster of emotions was amazing. The few nice people about it got redirected to a little hole in the wall welding shop in downtown who possibly has them in stock. Meanwhile I'mma be relaxing at my house with what I think is a shade 12 or 14 given I couldn't even see the arc when I was trying out the mig welder in my garage.
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Aug 21, 2017 06:02
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Cop Porn Popper posted:I've had multiple people calling and walking in looking for "welding supplies". Its been adorable to watch their face when I ask if they're looking for stuff for the eclipse before they ask. Then delicious Schadenfreude when I tell them that our shade 12 replacement lenses are special order from the factory and our auto darkening helmet is $130. Watching their rollercoaster of emotions was amazing. The few nice people about it got redirected to a little hole in the wall welding shop in downtown who possibly has them in stock. Meanwhile I'mma be relaxing at my house with what I think is a shade 12 or 14 given I couldn't even see the arc when I was trying out the mig welder in my garage. When I went in a week ago, the guys at Airgas hadn't even heard about the eclipse and had a stack of 12s. I wonder if the mania ever hit. My cheap auto-darkening won't trigger off the sun. Are there some that will?
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Aug 21, 2017 14:11
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I have a Miller digital infinity and if I up the sensitivity a bit it will trigger on sunlight. It has enough sensitivity range to trigger on office lighting even
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Aug 21, 2017 14:49
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