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Something I didn't notice until seeing these panels a second time is that this is adult Reiner fighting child Annie. Which is to say, this is the moment in Reiner's memories where he envisions himself becoming who he now.
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Aug 5, 2017 23:40
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Captain Invictus posted:I think this was a good chapter, but agree that next chapter should be a return to the present and poo poo goes down. It's been a while. One piece having 8-chapter-long flashbacks is fine since it's weekly, but 4+ months of flashbacks in a monthly series is a bit much. This is way more entertaining to me I'll be honest. It's like Eiba said, all these flashbacks are basically recontextualizing everything we thought we knew about Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie and the terrible things they did. This is absolutely going to be crucial going forward, because you cannot have such a muddy conflict without understanding the other side of it completely and what motivates these child soldiers to commit so completely to a goal like this. It's 100% important and necessary going forward, you cannot rush it or skip it just because you want to get to the bits where the nations go into a full blown war, because without the info we are getting now, the story is nowhere near as effective.
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Aug 6, 2017 06:26
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it's important but we already have context for what they did after joining the military. we've seen their thoughts on what they did after joining up (like when bertholdt was responding to eren and connie after they kidnapped eren or the flashback to the first titan attack they went through as members of the survey corps). I don't think we need more flashback at this point for this subject
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Aug 6, 2017 06:34
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Eiba posted:Honestly, I almost don't even care about what happens after this. This was the story of Attack on Titan to me. Same here. Reiner is such a high quality villain and I'm hoping the upcoming battle on Paradis is the final arc. Beast-Warhammer-Cart-Jaw-Armor vs Attack-Founder-Colossus-Female sounds like a great way to wrap up the series. This lets all our friends/enemies to wrap up their character arcs, Eren can use his coordinate to control the mindless colossi to kick some rear end and Marley will be left decimated losing all their titans and resources thus liberating the mainland Eldians. While the other warring nations are still a threat, I think it fits the story's theme perfectly to have the Eldians united and ready to continue fighting for their freedom. e: I thought it was a nice touch to see where their backstory came from too (Forgive the quality of early scans). 
Sub Harrison fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 06:47
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Manatee Cannon posted:it's important but we already have context for what they did after joining the military. we've seen their thoughts on what they did after joining up (like when bertholdt was responding to eren and connie after they kidnapped eren or the flashback to the first titan attack they went through as members of the survey corps). I don't think we need more flashback at this point for this subject It's true that we had context for what they did and what their thoughts were on what they did after they joined up with the survey corp. That's probably why neither of those things came up in this chapter.
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Aug 6, 2017 08:08
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I love the shot of Reiner and gang huddled together so close by to Eren and gang doing the same. I wonder if they'll do more with the Armin/Bert, Mikasa/Annie, Eren/Reiner dynamic, though not much else than what's been done is necessary.
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Aug 7, 2017 09:42
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Reiner dehumanized himself in order to face to bloodshed.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:59
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This flashback is good. Will make it so much the better when the Wall people are forced to slaughter their fellow kinsmen in Marley territory. Better to be killed than live a slave, after all, and there's no chain stronger than the one forged in your mind.
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Aug 16, 2017 04:02
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Kerning Chameleon posted:the manga (and this very discussion) has proven no other solution is apparently viable, so we might as well root for the genocide that removes the biggest number of vile fuckers possible, Get hosed, dipshit.
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Aug 16, 2017 04:07
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loving Iyasama. He made good on everyone's hope for this manga when they first started reading and actually killed off the main protagonist. Eren is no longer even close to the person he used to be. Screaming at the stars to "kill him dem titans" and slaughter them all with his own bare hands. Ready to literally leap into the mouth of a titan to save his friends. No no, that person is dead and gone, and for good reason. Almost nothing Eren "knew" or held most close to his heart turned out to mean a goddamn thing. He has been betrayed twice; once by a person who was his semi-mentor for a time and another whom he had huge respect and admiration for, not to mention complete trust. Both in the span of 2 days no less. The first betrayal forced him to come to terms with the truth that not every human is on his side. The second that not even all of his friends are on his side. That's not even counting the first "betrayal" by the Wall Guard when they first found out about his titanizing powers and then pointed cannons at him. And the trial, but I think it's reasonable that he forgave them for being scared shitless. Still, it impacted him. Not a day after being kidnapped by Reiner and Berthold, Eren's world that he is so sure about is shattered yet again with the revelation that ALL titans are, in fact, people. No longer a "they" or an "it"- people. What he swore to carry out genocide against all those years ago were in fact humans who are trapped in a nightmare, no longer in control of their own actions. This hits him hard. And through all of THAT he gets cold hard lessons in over-confidence. He should be dead. Many times. If not for his titan powers and many people giving their lives he would be dead at least 3 times over. He's not going to save humanity and avenge his mother. He can't even hardly save the people within a 10 meter radius. This all comes to a head in the crystal cave after Historia's dad gives her the syringe to titanize and Kenny cuts his forehead. He doesn't transform or even struggle. She questions him and his reply, "Historia...eat me." Eren finally comes to terms with his own powerlessness and perhaps detriment to humanity. It wasn't the logic or recent revelations about what his father did, though these were a factor. It's been everything leading up to his point. His rampant failures and losses have taken their toll that much. He confirms this to the audience in his own thoughts as he is running into the collapse throwing the vial of Titan Armor Juice into his mouth, "Please... just one more time... let me believe in myself". He is begging the world to let him have one last drop of self-confidence without letting someone he loves die. At the very end is when the final nail is hammered in. He has brought down the Colossal titan, but only because of Armin. And now Armin is rotting on the roof and all Eren can do is scream and beg at Levi to save him. In the end Eren's words fall onto deaf ears as he is whisked away by the same selfish twat who only really wants to save Erwin to give his own struggle to bring his broken body back meaning. Levi doesn't even save Armin because Eren's words and pleas move him, it's so as to not continue to force Erwin to be that demon they've relied on this whole time. Levi explains this to everyone as Titan Armin is eating Bertold, cementing Eren's complete failure to do anything to protect those close to him. After Trost, we never really see Eren happy again. He does have "victories" and he should be proud of himself for them. But don't even us normal folk focus too much on our failures, though minuscule and rare? Eren never really shows enough ego to take credit for the lives he saves. At the conclusion of the main arc we see Eren, Mikasa and Armin finally playing on the beach. They did it, they have their freedom... at enormous cost. Eren shows the effects of that cost. He isn't screaming to the sky at his enemy. He isn't swearing an oath of eradication to those who brought this hell upon us all. He's just, almost rhetorically, asking if he has to go kill some people now, like a blind man swinging his arms out trying to find anything at all to guide him. The sure-headed, brave, passionate Eren we met is dead, replaced with...this. Just a heap of sadness still having to hold the weight of the world on his shoulders. Eren is a broken man. This is why Eren is my favorite character. If he ends up being the big baddy for the rest of the series we'll all know exactly why and probably cheer him on. I'm so sorry for the  This is just something I've been wanting to get out for a while.
BuhamutZeo fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 17, 2017 |
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Aug 17, 2017 18:24
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When does the manga start picking up? I'm maybe 15 chapters in and can't get into it
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Aug 21, 2017 05:07
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RC Cola posted:When does the manga start picking up? I'm maybe 15 chapters in and can't get into it Try the Anime?
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Aug 21, 2017 06:02
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RC Cola posted:When does the manga start picking up? I'm maybe 15 chapters in and can't get into it The prologue ends chapter 90. Serious answer: the Survey Corps come into the scene ch 17 or 18 I think, and with them the actual movers and shakers of the story, and the introduction of the political drama and intrigue that is as much a crux of the series as the mystery of the titans and the origin of Eren's power.
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Aug 21, 2017 06:57
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I would also suggest trying the anime
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Aug 21, 2017 07:00
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BuhamutZeo posted:loving Iyasama. He made good on everyone's hope for this manga when they first started reading and actually killed off the main protagonist. this reads like a lot of projection dude
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Aug 21, 2017 20:54
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Terror Sweat posted:this reads like a lot of projection dude Not really? Like, the events of the story have obviously taken their toll on Eren, and he's very much not the person he started out as.
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Aug 21, 2017 21:14
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Terror Sweat posted:this reads like a lot of projection dude Dunno what you're talking about
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Aug 21, 2017 21:29
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BuhamutZeo posted:loving Iyasama. <words> Talking of animes, it looks like they're adapting the AoT: Lost Girls spinoff into a series of shorts. I never bothered reading that manga - are they any good? http://us.blastingnews.com/showbiz-tv/2017/08/attack-on-titan-update-spin-off-lost-girls-is-getting-a-series-001925145.html
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Aug 21, 2017 23:40
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Squidster posted:I appreciated this post. I thought the Annie one was pretty cool, but I didn't really like the Mikasa one.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:44
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Saagonsa posted:I thought the Annie one was pretty cool, but I didn't really like the Mikasa one.  Annie's gets you some nice insights into the kind of person she is past her stone cold mask, but Mikasa's story is just pointless.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:05
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So, Rick and Morty this week...
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Aug 22, 2017 01:25
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Terror Sweat posted:this reads like a lot of projection dude K. I just feel like Eren's treatment and growth as a character has been honest. He's not going to win every day through DIG DEEP power, but he still has all of the responsibility on his shoulders. And if he is indeed headed into Marley and goes on a cold, emotionless murder spree...well, he learned from the best. 
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Aug 22, 2017 01:57
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Say Nothing posted:So, Rick and Morty this week...
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Aug 24, 2017 04:24
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I just realized the marleyan plan to load Paradis Island with titans would have backfired eventually. "Well all the demons are dead, killed by their own demon people! Let's get them resources!" "... how? There is like a gazillion titans in there." "Ummm female titan?" "I can only do suggestion, and not that many." "Monkey trouble?" "Wayyyyy above my pay grade boss. Too many" "Well... gently caress."
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Aug 31, 2017 14:14
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Except the plan wasn't to have the titans eventually kill the Walldians, it was just a cruel punishment for Eldian dissidents and to keep the island uninhabitable beyond the walls. Then a hundred years later "oops" when they realized it'd be nice to exploit its resources.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:45
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I get it, Walldians cause they're Walled In.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:23
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On the other hand if the titans ran out of people to eat, surely they'd congregate towards the next largest congregation of humanity. Which would surely be their home across the sea. I mean, titans can't drown right? If they can float they'd eventually make it across the sea, and if they sink to the sea floor eventually enough will pile up that the rest can walk across.
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Aug 31, 2017 22:52
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Pyrotoad posted:On the other hand if the titans ran out of people to eat, surely they'd congregate towards the next largest congregation of humanity. Which would surely be their home across the sea. I mean, titans can't drown right? If they can float they'd eventually make it across the sea, and if they sink to the sea floor eventually enough will pile up that the rest can walk across. There were also walls preventing them leaving. Not to mention that they had to use one running Eldian to even get Titans near the wall.
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Sep 1, 2017 09:49
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Asuron posted:There were also walls preventing them leaving. No. There was a wall near the docks, so they could safely approach the island, but that's all.
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Sep 1, 2017 15:56
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titans are unusually light for their size. would they float in seawater?
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Sep 1, 2017 20:45
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Sooo...I got bored and decided to watch this poo poo on a whim these last couple of weeks. I've caught up to the manga after finishing S2 and I wasn't really expecting to like it as much as I did. I went into AoT pretty unspoiled, the only things I've heard were "S1 is good then it gets bad" and "it has weird nationalistic overtones", which made me think I was gonna have a fun time until S2 hit and then drop it like a sack of potatoes when things got weird. Thankfully I never really got skeeved out by the politics and the story remained compelling enough that I just kept watching/reading. From your conversations pre-basement, I would say AoT benefits a lot from binge-reading, since you don't get a full month of waiting between a couple of setup chapters and the one that moves the plot forward. Plus it makes some of the twists harder to predict. For instance, I didn't have enough time between seeing the Female Titan's face and getting the Annie reveal to go "huh, this thing sure looks like someone, hmm". I did suspect Reiner being a Titan after that, however, just from his looks. I've read that they shifted some stuff around in the anime, but it was a lot easier to see Reiner being the Armored Titan in S2 with the amount of hints they threw around. S2 ED is preeeeeeeeetty spoileriffic when you know the context, huh? I thought it had some creepy vibes and kinda half-guessed the origin of Titan powers from its imagery (I figured it was cannibalism, turns out that's just how you get the Big Titan Boy powers), but I was expecting it to be how humanity doomed itself, not this ethnical conflict where the losing side got ghettoized and weaponized. Again, I binged thru the series and didn't try to guess what was gonna happen, but I think the anime did a good job hinting at stuff without outright revealing its hand. And just so you have a clean perspective on the "AoT is kinda fascist" debate, I think both sides looked like terrible places to be, with the Walled City junta being less of a mess if only because we've been only following the hosed-up foot soldiers. I don't get the GATE thing of "armies are good, let them do their poo poo" and every single soldier seems to die a pathetic death when it comes down to it, there's no sense of glory there. The ex-Military Police dude that got headshotted by the Beast Titan during the suicide charge exemplified that. War sucks, armies suck.
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Sep 2, 2017 03:40
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Dias posted:"it has weird nationalistic overtones", I don't even agree with this and feel like a lot of people are reaching.
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Sep 2, 2017 04:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't even agree with this and feel like a lot of people are reaching. That's just me talking about what I heard about the series before watching it, I didn't know if it was true or not. I know people have discussed this a ton before so I don't wanna open that particular can of worms, but I figured my point of view as someone that came into it expecting some GATE poo poo would have some value.
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Sep 2, 2017 04:20
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The standard glorification of the military, the cowardice of the civilians and the importance of the will to power is what made people initially see fascist undertones in AoT but its the whole reveal where the protagonists belong to a genetically superior, oppressed race fallen from its past glories and has enemies within and without that really makes people do the thinking emoji
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Sep 2, 2017 05:42
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Eej posted:The standard glorification of the military, the cowardice of the civilians and the importance of the will to power is what made people initially see fascist undertones in AoT but its the whole reveal where the protagonists belong to a genetically superior, oppressed race fallen from its past glories and has enemies within and without that really makes people do the thinking emoji That's not really what the reveal was, but okay.
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Sep 2, 2017 05:56
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Yeah if anything I feel it's very anti-fascistic in how it portrays the fascist governments in the series. It definitely does not portray the marleyans or walldians in a positive light at all.
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Sep 2, 2017 08:42
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The jingoism is only there if you come looking for it and don't actually see what's past it. In regards to the state of Paradis after the coup, the military junta established with Historia as a puppet monarch is immediately recognized in-universe as less than ideal, but it's baby steps. It seems fairly realistic in how the revolt against the super oppressive police state came not from the populous but from within the military, opposing factions dethroning oligarchs who were far more interested in maintaining their status than the welfare of the nation (which was facing the threat of outright annihilation). While it's true they merely shifted from one authoritarian government to another, the new one is unequivocally freer and hopeful for the future of the people - and the characters themselves make this distinction, that the only true way they can be better than the monarchy they replaced, is by looking after the citizens and giving them more freedom. Letting them know the truth and come to their own conclusions. It's interesting how it treats nationalism, too. We're shown at first how BURNING FIGHTING SPIRIT is the opposite of civilian cowardice and the way to defeat the titans, then after spending a long time building that up, the titans show up and we see what a farce that is because soldiers keep dying horrible, often pathetic deaths. But then, in the end, fostering this farce is the only thing that can get the soldiers to throw down their lives when it's necessary. I think Isayama does an overall good job at conveying one of the central themes of the series: that things often aren't "good" or "evil", they merely are what they are, and that the world can be ugly, cruel, and beautiful all at the same time. The Scout's charge on the Beast Titan encapsulates this theme, and I'm looking forward to Wit Studio giving it the animation treatment a year from now.
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Sep 2, 2017 09:01
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Conspiratiorist posted:The jingoism is only there if you come looking for it and don't actually see what's past it. The big shonen hoo-rah build ups to, and the complete and utter decimation immediately after of the death charges are some of the best parts of the manga. I look forward to many, many more.
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Sep 2, 2017 09:13
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The fascism stuff was lame not because it was stupid and unfounded but because it encouraged a lot of weirdos to post unabashedly moronic poo poo. I'm glad that got done away with quickly though, seeing every other poli sci student rear their heads was starting to get annoying. The scope of the story is too big, and the pace too fast I think to have let anyone dwell on that poo poo. I think more interesting than that were the concepts of self-sacrifice (and the sacrifice of others) for the advancement of humanity, back before the story told us about Marley et al. Stuff like Erwin and the MP recruits and Armin, admittedly it didn't last long in Armin's case but still. My favorite was that page with Erwin standing on a huge pile of corpses of fallen Survey Corps members, that imagery was perfect for his character.
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Sep 2, 2017 10:23
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Captain Invictus posted:Yeah if anything I feel it's very anti-fascistic in how it portrays the fascist governments in the series. It definitely does not portray the marleyans or walldians in a positive light at all. This, and every single person in the military is batshit insane and amoral. People who think AoT is fascist are probably the same people who think Starship Troopers (Veerhoven's) is fascist.
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Sep 2, 2017 17:15
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