Steam Thread 2019: hey, Half-Life 3 is here *monkey's paw curls* as a VR exclusive

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Steam Thread 2019: hey, Half-Life 3 is here *monkey's paw curls* as a VR exclusive

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man nurse: Feb 18, 2014

Geomancing posted:

Fear Effect, Fear Effect... I vaguely remember that title back around 2000, why is that...

Oh yeah.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:02

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 18:33

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Geomancing posted:

Fear Effect, Fear Effect... I vaguely remember that title back around 2000, why is that...

Oh yeah.

This is like when people say "congress is as deadlocked as it's ever been!" and ignore Charles Sumner's beatdown with a stick on the senate floor.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:03

il_cornuto: Oct 10, 2004

She's reading Big Guns magazine

get it

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:10

Hwurmp: May 20, 2005

which is better: that ad, or this one

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:15

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Ikari Worrier posted:

Okay after writing and rewriting this over the course of the past day, I'm just going to finally post it and hope that it's good enough, so here goes:

So true to my word I've given Dear Esther another chance. Since the last time I played it the Landmark Edition came out, so I decided to play that version. Didn't mess with the director's commentary, though, since honestly while authorial intent can be fascinating and all I figured it'd be beside the point when it came to re-evaluating my thoughts on the game's writing. Before I get to that, though, I'll touch on the game's other facets.

Now I can still say that Dear Esther's environmental design is excellent and I'm still amazed that they were able to pull all of it off with the Source engine originally (Landmark Edition switched engines to Unity for whatever reason). Still wish I could move at a faster pace than a brisk walk, granted, but to be honest it feels like (though I'm not certain) they might have tweaked the walk speed from the original version slightly since movement felt less ponderous to me. I could just be misremembering how the original functioned on that front, though.

The music is also great, and I admit that it's something I didn't pay much attention to during my initial playthrough some years ago. It matches the tone set by the environment perfectly. If I have any problems with the music is that sometimes, if you're not advancing the story beats as fast as the game would like, the music just trails off and dies and the ambient and environmental sound effects honestly aren't really up to the standard the music sets in comparison. The narration is fine but doesn't especially do much for me, personally. I'll be honest, though, I'm not sure if that's because of the actor himself or the narration the actor is tasked with delivering

I don't deny that the writing for Dear Esther qualifies, under most definitions, as "literary." With its recurring motifs with regard to its underlying themes and narrative, wedded with its use of metaphor, it checks off the noteworthy characteristics for that style of writing. But simply using metaphor and motif doesn't automatically make your writing artful or insightful. The game's writer seems to be afraid that some of the central points of the narrative could potentially be misread or misinterpreted and thus repeats certain motifs in a rather artless fashion. It's not necessarily a bad thing to make it clear that there was a car crash and that a drunk driver was perhaps involved,, but rewording and restating that point close to a half dozen times before cutting to a literal underwater recreation of the crash is a bit much, as if the writer is grabbing you by the shoulders and shaking you while going "HEY DID YOU NOTICE THE CAR CRASH IMAGERY YET?"

Earlier in the thread, my interpretation of the story as the narrator in purgatory, having perished in the car crash along with Esther and Paul was questioned and dismissed, but to me that interpretation still has merit. If anything, it's a rather charitable reading. If the setting is to be taken more literally and the narrator has isolated himself to a somewhat remote island and driven himself mad with grief and guilt by obsessing over the events of the afformentioned car crash, then the symbolism present in the island environment ceases to be metaphorical and instead becomes aggravatingly literal. You have to be careful when constructing metaphors since if you're too on the nose you can wrench the reader out of the narrative. For one in particular that was eyerolling to me, there's the fact that the scholar Donnelly and the shepherd Jakobson, both also inhabitants of the island, also happened to share last names with Esther and Paul respectively, which is heavy handed as metaphor and completely beggars belief as literal happenstance.

Mostly, regardless of how you're intended to interpret the events that unfold, I still couldn't connect to the game on an emotional level. The narration feels too clinical and detached most of the time, which I feel is less the fault of the voice actor and more the prose underlying it. That's not the case 100% of the time, of course, as there are moments when the game breaks free of its ponderously purple prose to deliver genuine moments of pain and pathos (such as the narrator suddenly, in an impulse borne of anger and frustration, pondering how many bodies flung into a chasm would fill it or the final confession during the ascent that there was never a drunk driver, implying that the narrator blames himself for the crash) More often the prose is just content to ponderously meander into digressions that don't go much of anywhere. Maybe it's that I just favor economy of prose and thus the approach doesn't speak to me personally, who knows.

I suppose my overall opinion is less negative than it was when compared to the first time I played the game, and I feel like some of my negative reaction came from playing Dear Esther after playing Gone Home first, a game whose approach to writing and especially interaction with the environment I greatly prefer. I can see now that Dear Esther is trying for something different and wanting the game to be more like Gone Home was probably asking too much. Still, I personally would have a hard time recommending Dear Esther as anything more than a curiosity at this point. Important to the development of the genre, certainly, but surprassed in almost every respect by other games that followed.

Thank you for this, I felt bad about being pompous before and I really appreciate you putting some time in to your response!

I think we basically agree, but differ slightly in our taste - I have a fondness for that kind of prose and self-consciously arty approach, and I'd argue that it does what it's trying to do well, but I agree that the studied artificiality of it is a taste not all share and that Gone Home does most of the same stuff in a much more accessible way. And yeah, I don't think subtlety is an accusation you could level at the author.

I think Dear Esther first and most strongly suggested the option of simply existing in a place as a legitimate way of experiencing the game. By removing all interaction options it tacitly encourages you to just stand and take it in.

In terms of what it's about, idk I don't think it needs an Answer any more than a david lynch film does. It's a bunch of things that exist in relation to each other and get meaning from that, and while the components end up being clear enough (even too obvious) you can pick whatever exact configuration of those things is most satifying for you - the randomised approach helps with this without being super clever or integral to the piece as a whole.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:15

vorebane: Feb 2, 2009; "I like Ur and Kavodel and Enki being nice to people for some reason."

Wrong Voter amongst wrong voters

pentyne posted:

There's apparently a magic end game ultimate weapon that you have to use on the final boss/es in Returns and if you don't have anyone able to effectively wield it then you have a really lovely time trying to beat the game with a super low accuracy and hit %. I know in some thread or another someone posted a character build for getting the most out of the in game system but also spec'd towards that end game weapon class so you don't hit a brick wall. Worst case scenario I could just cheatengine the game but whenever I do that I lose a lot of enjoyment from playing it unless the storytelling is solid.

You only really need a few points into shotguns and quickness to do well enough alone with whatever else you feel like doing. The only time it really hurts is when you have none at all to very little and already spent and locked down the points you get in getting to the final assault wherein you need dem shotguns.

Granted a couple options and maybe a 'Uh, I'm bad at all these, can you toss me some karma?' button would have made all that whining go away.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:17

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Just skip Returns it's not that great and Dragonfall's way better. never play CHRONICLES because it's the worst

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:26

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

corn in the bible posted:

Just skip Returns it's not that great and Dragonfall's way better. never play CHRONICLES because it's the worst

Returns is ok for the first 3/4, I'd say play it until you want to stop then move on to dragonfall in good conscience.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:27

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Stop eating the sandwich once you get to the part that's filled with poo poo.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:29

Sivek: Nov 12, 2012

re: video game ads in the 90's ruled

The top ad might be art and hopefully whoever decided on the the perfect in-game screenshot got a bonus.

C&C, lmao.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:30

Fargin Icehole: Feb 19, 2011; Pet me.

I was completely sold on Dragonfall. Hong Kong i am struggling to complete, i just felt bored solving that mystery with the elders. I can barely remember how far I got on the first one i played, Returns. I think I was supposed to find a decker or something?

But Dragonfall. That one right there is one of the good ones.

Sivek posted:

re: video game ads in the 90's ruled

The top ad might be art and hopefully whoever decided on the the perfect in-game screenshot got a bonus.

C&C, lmao.

Holy poo poo. C&C is my poo poo, and I never knew this was one of their ads.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:31

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Synthbuttrange posted:

Stop eating the sandwich once you get to the part that's filled with poo poo.

Yeah I don't understand where this Gamer Philosophy of playing bad games in a series first comes from, like, just start with the good ones! You'll be happier!

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:31

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

corn in the bible posted:

Yeah I don't understand where this Gamer Philosophy of playing bad games in a series first comes from, like, just start with the good ones! You'll be happier!

When someone says that early entries are bad it could mean anything from "unplayable garbage" to "a great game that had some quality improvements with the sequel"

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:35

Fur20: Nov 14, 2007; すご▞い！
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね！

Sivek posted:

re: video game ads in the 90's ruled

cho aniki came to america?!

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:41

Turd Herder: May 21, 2008; BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

Anyone try Tree Of Life?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/361800/Tree_of_Life/

It's on sale and looks like a fun sandbox MMO

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:47

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

I've played Shadowrun Returns. Skip it, it turns into serious garbage.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:50

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Unless you really like Jake Armitage's four minute cameo, nothing Returns does isn't done much better in Dragonfall and HK.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:53

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Sivek posted:

re: video game ads in the 90's ruled

she should probably be happy patrick bateman won't touch her tbh

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:54

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

kirbysuperstar posted:

Unless you really like Jake Armitage's four minute cameo, nothing Returns does isn't done much better in Dragonfall and HK.

Cyberspace is terrible in all three though

# ? Aug 22, 2017 01:58

Fur20: Nov 14, 2007; すご▞い！
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね！

kirbysuperstar posted:

Unless you really like Jake Armitage's four minute cameo, nothing Returns does isn't done much better in Dragonfall and HK.

hey he has like two four-minute cameos ok

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:01

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

There's a high likelyhood people playing this today were not even born when jake armitage first showed up.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:06

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Who?

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:11

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Deakul posted:

Too bad it's by Relic though.

Yeah I was watching that then was like hmm I wonder whose going to develop this, they already killed Ensemble and then laughed when I saw relic. 10 years ago I'm sure they could have put out a phenomal game but they've lost anyone experienced and basically a whole new inexperienced and kind of weak dev now just coasting on the name we used to love. I dunno i'll hold judgement until the actually game comes out but seeing Relic does not inspire confidence. Then again I really don't know anyone else they could get to make it anyways

Ulio posted:

Ya I can't count how many hours I spent on Aoe2 and AoM. 3 was fine but not my favorite.

AoM was loving great, gently caress the haters at the time just because it wasn't AoE3, we did get AoE3 and honestly it was pretty mediocre. It missed out a lot of what make previous games good.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:13

Ryuujin: Sep 26, 2007; Dragon God

The funny thing about the Shadowrun games is that while I have all 3 it is Dragonfall that I haven't finished. Don't know why but I seemed to have an easier time getting through Returns and Hong Kong, even restarting them with a new character, but struggle with Dragonfall.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:24

Fur20: Nov 14, 2007; すご▞い！
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね！

Xaris posted:

AoM was loving great, gently caress the haters at the time just because it wasn't AoE3, we did get AoE3 and honestly it was pretty mediocre. It missed out a lot of what make previous games good.

like what? i've only ever played aoe3 so i don't know what kinds of features it's missing compared to its predecessors

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:27

Deakul: Apr 2, 2012; PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

AoE3 was bloated with worthless poo poo like the home city system and the card system, absolutely killed skirmish and mp for me cause you have to make decks of cards for every drat civ and it was just a pain.

Gatherers no longer need drop off points, just plop them on trees or food or whatever and they'll be fine pretty much forever.

Cannons were op and whoever made the most pretty much won the game cause they can fire even when units are up close and they weren't exactly expensive to make.

The campaign was some made up bullshit instead of the history lessons of games of old.

The time period never bothered me, I actually really liked it and I did have tons of fun with game but it was mostly through the campaign cause I was too lazy to make decks of cards for the home city to play skirmish or mp very often.

Someone else can probably go more indepth to why it wasn't that great in the long run but these were just things off the top of my head.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:47

HerpicleOmnicron5: May 31, 2013; How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?

The White Dragon posted:

like what? i've only ever played aoe3 so i don't know what kinds of features it's missing compared to its predecessors

go play AoE2

# ? Aug 22, 2017 02:55

Shima Honnou: Dec 1, 2010; The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit; College Slice

AoE2 was real good.

AoE2 HD is real good. For a while I was playing a full round or two a day of it.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:04

nachos: Jun 27, 2004; Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

What does shadowrun dragonfall do better to make it consistently recommended over HK?

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:06

Fur20: Nov 14, 2007; すご▞い！
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね！

nachos posted:

What does shadowrun dragonfall do better to make it consistently recommended over HK?

i haven't played hong kong but i can tell you that in spite of consistently infuriating combat, the story has me hooked and i keep giving dragonfall more chances

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:12

Fargin Icehole: Feb 19, 2011; Pet me.

nachos posted:

What does shadowrun dragonfall do better to make it consistently recommended over HK?

The story, and the way the game integrates it. It was enough that i was looking past the shadowrun combat system itself and looked at it as a chore rather than something i'll immediately put off and play something else.

Simple answer, but it's true.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:24

Mokinokaro: Sep 11, 2001; At the end of everything, hold onto anything; Fun Shoe

Dragonfall also has a much better tutorial/intro mission. HK assumes you know how to play from the start.

I LIKED HK, but it really is dependant on the type of story you're looking for.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:27

Ceyton: Oct 9, 2004; YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!
YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!
YOU'RE DEAD ARMITAGE!

HenryEx posted:

Who?

He's dead

nachos posted:

What does shadowrun dragonfall do better to make it consistently recommended over HK?

Better pacing, more interesting characters, fewer bugs.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:28

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

nachos posted:

What does shadowrun dragonfall do better to make it consistently recommended over HK?

lots of mechanical tweaks, but mainly a set of good well-drawn characters, an interesting world and solid plot that works all the way through.

Returns is cyberpunk 101 for the first 2/3 then introduces a new annoying enemy and a bunch of annoying npcs.

there's a good lp of returns over in let's play that's about halfway through if you want an idea.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:31

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

oh sorry misread that. HK is good, but I stalled out on it: it also has good characters but the plot is less compelling. It's roughly on a par with dragonfall though.

# ? Aug 22, 2017 03:32

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

sebmojo posted:

oh sorry misread that. HK is good, but I stalled out on it: it also has good characters but the plot is less compelling. It's roughly on a par with dragonfall though.

Hong Kong has a mission where your terrorist act of the day is loving up a building's feng shui. :colbert: