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The problem with IF is less a retcon than the audience's sheer inability to make any sense of what's going on whatsoever. Retcons are fine, often to fix dumb writing, but this is just the continued erosion of the writing.
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Aug 21, 2017 22:49
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I've talked people's ears off about how lame the Hand is since they popped up in DDS2. Just the very idea of them grated on me because the Netflix series were otherwise down to earth, and they kind of ruined that for me. That, and nothing they did was as good or convincing as Hydra in Agents of SHIELD, which has been on an insane upswing for as long as Marvel Netflix has been on its downswing. And, I hate to admit that I miss the sheer brutality and personable evil we got from Kingpin, Kilgrave, Cottonmouth, and Black Mariah - humans with human motives and flaws - as opposed to a fantastic league of ninjas in New York chasing the undead dragon.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:04
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I wonder if they've been so coy about Shou Lao because they didn't want to invite a comparison with Game of Thrones on CG quality.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:19
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MiddleOne posted:Immortal ninjas are just really lame. I've been telling you people this since DD S2, why did it take you this long to believe me? bUt It'S fRoM tHe CoMiCs
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Aug 21, 2017 23:21
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They were clearly going for a personable evil with Alexandra and they tried to show her as vulnerable and human but they fumbled it because she was just kind of incompetent and pathetic and then got replaced with Elektra, who's never been very interesting and is mostly just a crazy bitch.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:22
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Toast Museum posted:I wonder if they've been so coy about Shou Lao because they didn't want to invite a comparison with Game of Thrones on CG quality.
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Aug 21, 2017 23:27
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All that elevator CGI was baaaaaad,like videogame unfinished fan movie bad. But other than that I enjoyed the show,iron fist was a dick but at least everyone around him acknowledged it. was anyone expecting all those dead guys in the warehouse to have been killed by the punisher? they all looked like gunshot wounds and I was wondering if he was involved but I guess not
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Aug 21, 2017 23:29
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Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:00
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot. building was about to go boom?
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Aug 22, 2017 00:05
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Kegslayer posted:Isn't that because the show runners don't have any idea what's happening on the other shows? Yes, one of showrunners answered questions indicating that they don't coordinate much.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:31
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot. So Misty can get herself all Coulsoned up with a kick-rear end robot arm.
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Aug 22, 2017 00:36
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot. Shush you, I waited two series for Misty to lose her arm. Don't take this away from me. (Though I would have been happier if it played out as something like this.)
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Aug 22, 2017 00:46
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Misty gets a Stark tech robot arm, while the cast cringes and grimaces and breaks the 4th wall in embarrassment that they are on a comic book show related to the MCU. seriously though this show would be ten times better if they just embraced the silliness a little bit and ran with the comic stuff.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:42
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DrNutt posted:seriously though this show would be ten times better if they just embraced the silliness a little bit and ran with the comic stuff. Every time they do that people call it the worst thing ever.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:44
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DrNutt posted:Misty gets a Stark tech robot arm, while the cast cringes and grimaces and breaks the 4th wall in embarrassment that they are on a comic book show related to the MCU. I feel like it is comic booky enough. Cage fought a man in a stupid space suit. Mystical ninjas. JJ is a mutant and fought a psychic man. I mean it's a bit more lofi than the movies and stuff like Agents of Shield, but I like the tone they have set for a ground pounding street hero show. I wish their budgets were a bit bigger though because the effects on some stuff (Defenders) are dogshit. e: phone changing my foughts to boughts :/ JBP fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 01:45
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These Netflix shows have given and taught me two things anyway. Until this thread, I'd never heard the term "showrunner" and had no idea what that was. I'd never heard of Jidenna either so most of Luke Cage's shortcomings are forgiven on that basis alone. Agree with the dude a few pages back who pointed out how these series seem to be getting away from what loving everyone LOVED about DDs1 and how that grounding it so well really led to its relatability and success. Wives and girlfriends were digging this poo poo for once. gently caress the Ninjas, the hole, the stupid dragon and the Hand and all that mystical bullshit. I want Castle, Copperhead and Fisk owning the poo poo out of every scene their in and someone cool enough to play Bullseye when we get to that. I want a competent Iron Fist and a Heroes for Hire where those two help people when the cops and the lawyers won't. I haven't watched JJ yet but it's been in my queue forever and reading the comments here has gotten me interested precisely because of the motivations I'm reading ascribed to the hero.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:47
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I feel like another downfall for Defenders is Alexandra. We spent a lot of time getting to know Cottonmouth, Black Mariah, Fisk, Punisher, and Kilgrave. Through a combination of character arcs and flashbacks. For Alexandra, almost everything we know about her is because either some character or herself talks us through it. I don't really feel like I got to know her in the same way that I got to know Fisk and Kilgrave. I would've liked to see some flashbacks to her time before she entered New York.
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Aug 22, 2017 01:58
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I dunno, take away the flashback episode from Daredevil season 1 and we know about as much about her as we would know about Fisk.
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Aug 22, 2017 02:01
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JBP posted:I feel like it is comic booky enough. Cage bought a man in a stupid space suit. Mystical ninjas. JJ is a mutant and bought a psychic man. Yeah that stuff is in there, my point is how all the characters seem to be embarrassed about it. Luke Cage's incredulity toward Danny talking about dragons and chi is loving stupid in a world where an alien invasion was stopped by a fighting force that included a literal god.
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Aug 22, 2017 02:28
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DrNutt posted:Yeah that stuff is in there, my point is how all the characters seem to be embarrassed about it. Luke Cage's incredulity toward Danny talking about dragons and chi is loving stupid in a world where an alien invasion was stopped by a fighting force that included a literal god. Ah yeah. This is why I like Danny. He's some lovely rich kid, but he says completely insane things like I AM THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST and "I have a vision of total victory in my mind" without a shadow of doubt that this is cool and normal.
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Aug 22, 2017 02:46
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I wish they had spent all the money they spent on Sigourney Weaver on fight choreography.
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Aug 22, 2017 03:08
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BiggerBoat posted:Until this thread, I'd never heard the term "showrunner" and had no idea what that was. The first time I recall hearing it was the remake of Battlestar Galactica, with Ron Moore having that unofficial title.
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Aug 22, 2017 03:13
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You know what? for all it's faults, I really enjoyed this. I liked Danny Rand playing the part of damsel in distress/main target and Jessica's reactions to all the crazy poo poo going on. My only beef is, all the fight choreography in the world doesn't mean anything if the setting is in a dark lit room with very few lights in between it all. DrNutt posted:Yeah that stuff is in there, my point is how all the characters seem to be embarrassed about it. Luke Cage's incredulity toward Danny talking about dragons and chi is loving stupid in a world where an alien invasion was stopped by a fighting force that included a literal god. I agree almost completely. In the movies and in the netflix series, everyone is absolutely aware of the "incident" where everything you knew about the universe changed. Thing is, people are still going to work and worrying about rent because that's just the way the world still works. It's almost as if hearing about the "floating city" in Age of Ultron, or the guy with the "hammer" is just water cooler talk you hear about in google news, and not some life altering thing. In any other medium (other than comics), that extraordinary thing is enough to rattle the whole world. Alien invasion, new power source, terrorist with world ending stuff. Comic universes as far as i know are the only ones where people know there's something out there, and is still kinda positive about it, if not ambivalent. As some regular jane/joe, you know there's like 100 heroes with different powers saving the world, competing with 100 villains trying to end it, and you're just trying to make rent. Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 03:15
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Why does Defenders not have the team fight actual ninjas at ANY point. All of a sudden all the mooks are dudes in suits for no reason.
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Aug 22, 2017 04:13
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Narcissus1916 posted:Why does Defenders not have the team fight actual ninjas at ANY point. All of a sudden all the mooks are dudes in suits for no reason. Hand agents can wear beach attire and still do the things they do
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Aug 22, 2017 04:44
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Fargin Icehole posted:Hand agents can wear beach attire and still do the things they do They also sit in boardroom meetings in business attire, completed with telescopic batons just in case the Iron Fist walks in.
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Aug 22, 2017 05:35
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Nephthys posted:Like most things, the Hand is a lot cooler when you know barely anything about it. They were the coolest in season 1 of Daredevil when we knew poo poo about them except that Gao was loving awesome and then Nobu shows up and whoops Matt's rear end. We didn't even know they were the Hand, just that a secret organisation was backing Kingpin and that Gao could punch Matt 10 feet backwards with no explanation. There was a real feeling of mystique and intrigue. Never meet your heroes. DrNutt posted:Misty gets a Stark tech robot arm, while the cast cringes and grimaces and breaks the 4th wall in embarrassment that they are on a comic book show related to the MCU. They... did, though. There were ninja. Lots of ninja. Didn't you see the ninja? They had some kind of immortality dust, and followed the Inverse Ninja Power Rule (the fewer the ninja the more powerful they are) and there was a lot of punching and stabbing. Narcissus1916 posted:Why does Defenders not have the team fight actual ninjas at ANY point. All of a sudden all the mooks are dudes in suits for no reason. Those ninja costumes get smelly.
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Aug 22, 2017 06:58
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If "embracing their comic roots" means borrowing dragon bone sets from Power Rangers I think I'm good.
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Aug 22, 2017 07:01
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The Netflix series may be falling into the same trap that the Arrow shows did. That show was great because it was grounded, dark and realistic. But the Flash came along and even though the first season of that show was great everything became very comicbooky and the tone became pretty goofy, even on Arrow. Superpowers and magic started to undercut the feeling of the show. I couldn't feel any tension or investment in the show any more. The tone shifted and they couldn't get the immersion factor back. I think the same thing is happening here.
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Aug 22, 2017 12:27
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:They... did, though. There were ninja. Lots of ninja. Didn't you see the ninja? They had some kind of immortality dust, and followed the Inverse Ninja Power Rule (the fewer the ninja the more powerful they are) and there was a lot of punching and stabbing. Implicit in the request is the rider "and do it well", I know you're still struggling with this idea.
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Aug 22, 2017 13:02
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Dark and gritty works for Daredevil because that's the type of character he's been for most of his existence - struggling with the ethics of vigilantism and Catholicism, constantly knee-deep in poverty and street crime, and grappling with the shortcomings of the legal system. He's a blind man whose superpower is largely "not actually blind." But what makes a good story for Daredevil does not necessarily work for characters like Luke Cage (whose roots are, and still remain, in blaxploitation) or Iron Fist (whose best stories involve embracing camp and mysticism.) The reasons why the first season of Daredevil was so good and the later shows were considerably less good have less to do with being grounded and gritty, given that they attempted to do that with all of the characters to a greater or lesser degree - I agree with other comments that the shows at times seem actively embarrassed about being comic book shows - and more to do with the fact they've been so much lower budget than they should have been. Plus losing Daredevil's first season fight choreographer, that was a hell of a blow.
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Aug 22, 2017 13:32
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This show was good and I agree with the poster who said they were asking "Where's Jessica?" every time she wasn't on screen.Nephthys posted:The Netflix series may be falling into the same trap that the Arrow shows did. That show was great because it was grounded, dark and realistic. Lmao I quite enjoyed Arrow but it was never any of those things!
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Aug 22, 2017 13:36
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marktheando posted:Lmao I quite enjoyed Arrow but it was never any of those things! Of course it was, did you see how many bodies Oliver dropped? That's the true mark of "grounded and realistic"
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Aug 22, 2017 13:40
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Daredevil season 2 was always going to be about magic ninjas.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:09
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I think the finale would have been better if each hero had their own fight,when you have one hero who's not a good fighter (iron fist) one guy who's a tank,one who's a super ninja with enhanced senses and one punchy lady against an old lady (who can only do a bit before the stunt double comes in) and two other guys(and later on add in ten extra guys) it turns into a clusterfuck. The end felt rushed just like all the endings have up to now (only Daredevil season 1 had a clean ending that felt right).
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Aug 22, 2017 14:20
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McSpanky posted:Implicit in the request is the rider "and do it well", I know you're still struggling with this idea. Ninja are inherently lame, though. I know you're struggling with this idea. Aphrodite posted:Daredevil season 2 was always going to be about magic ninjas. Pretty much, yeah.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:46
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It's kind of interesting that the Defenders is usually Dr. Strange's thing. And I kind of wish AOS didn't do Ghost Rider. He'd be cool to see on a Netflix show, even if he isn't grounded at all. Just love GR.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:54
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AoS had a much higher per-episode budget than a Netflix Ghost Rider show would ever have.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:57
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marktheando posted:Lmao I quite enjoyed Arrow but it was never any of those things! Obviously I meant relative to the medium, aka for a comicbook show. It was like that in the same way Batman Begins was, since it was so drat similar.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:59
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Arist posted:AoS had a much higher per-episode budget than a Netflix Ghost Rider show would ever have. Really? I mean maybe they got a bit of a boost to do GR but they also have to spread their budget out over a traditional network season of 20-some episodes. To me, what makes The Hand a unique threat in the comics isn't any individual member. Sure, it is interesting when a notable character takes control of The Hand. Elektra, Fisk, Bullseye, even Daredevil all have histories of leading The Hand. What makes them unique, to me, is that they are similar to a force of nature. Most Hand appearances in the comics they are just a huge horde of never ending ninjas who just kind of disappear once they're killed. I'm talking hundreds or thousands. So seeing, like we saw in DD S2 and Defenders, what, 15-30 people? most of whom have no powers? That isn't a huge threat. Especially for 4 people either highly skilled or with super powers. And of the individual Hand members, we know almost nothing about them and they seem to be handled quite easily. We don't really see them building influence in the various criminal or legitimate businesses they're involved in like we saw with Fisk. There was no Wesley type character out there building bridges and breaking legs. We're just kind of told The Hand has active influences everywhere and we're just supposed to believe it.
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Aug 22, 2017 15:32
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