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Going from Ex-Aid to Build doesn't feel like an enormous step forward in character design so I don't know what to tell you. The vomit stuff peaks early, Genm is designed to be hopelessly childish-hardcore because he's basically a manchild trying to look cool. But other suits like Fantasy Gamer and Cronus just legitimately look neat independent of what show they're in. Maybe Cronus is stretching it a bit, but I thought Ecliptor or whatever his Megaranger equivalent is called was a cool monster design so sue me.
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Sep 7, 2017 14:42
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Cronus is alright, though I'm still iffy on the hair. I liked Ecliptor too.
TenCentFang fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 14:47
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How does it feel to be so wrong about a show's suit quality
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Sep 7, 2017 14:48
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TenCentFang posted:Same. Aesthetic is the number one issue for me when it comes to "will I attempt this?", and why I didn't watch Ex-Aid. Listen, I get it, everyone praises Ex-Aid and I'm sure the story and everything is fantastic, but I am neurologically incapable of ignoring the 90s clown vomit character design. Counterpoint: I hated most of the designs in Ex-Aid too but it ended up becoming one of my favorite Rider shows. Just watch a few episodes, you'll stop caring about the suit designs pretty quickly.
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Sep 7, 2017 14:54
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Larryb posted:Counterpoint: I hated most of the designs in Ex-Aid too but it ended up becoming one of my favorite Rider shows. Just watch a few episodes, you'll stop caring about the suit designs pretty quickly. Well, does it still do the monster of the week two part episode formula? Because that killed Drive for me too, and I liked his suit(the original one, anyway, some of the upgrades are rather tacky). To show I'm not entirely a disgusting hollow spirit who only cares about cool looks, I should mention Wizard had the most bangin' suit ever and a badass gunsword, and I still didn't like it.
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Sep 7, 2017 14:59
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No two parters, and it's only got a few episodes that could be called monster of the week.
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Sep 7, 2017 15:04
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Hmm. My plate is pretty full as it is, but I think I'll give it a try sometime this year, then.
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Sep 7, 2017 15:09
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The strength of Ex-Aid is how at episode 12 you start reaching a point where nearly every episode has a plot revelation or a progression moment that builds on toward the conclusion. The only episode that feels completely formulaic is Burgermon and even he's important in establishing that not all of these virals are bound to unreasonable chaos (just as Graphite is an example that even sophisticated virals can't always be reasoned with.)
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Sep 7, 2017 15:10
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Craptacular! posted:The strength of Ex-Aid is how at episode 12 you start reaching a point where nearly every episode has a plot revelation or a progression moment that builds on toward the conclusion. That's how I felt about Gaim, and why I was incredibly disappointed when it ended and I was like "well at least there are tons of other toku to watch oh gently caress Gaim was special in breaking formula wasn't it".
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Sep 7, 2017 15:13
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Yeah. "It's only 4 hours" is a hard sell, but Ex-Aid's first 11 episodes really don't sell it on the show it's going to become.
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Sep 7, 2017 15:14
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It wasn't a complete dismantling of the system and was victory that in places was bittersweet. Clearly not the Kamen Rider way like beating the enemy but still being forced to wands the earth as a hell machine that can never be human again. Now if only that actually happened in Gaim instead of what we got. I mean, what did happen was almost as much of a tragedy, just an unearned one that was presented as a happy ending. One fun element that people like to ignore/forget, but absolutely cannot be forgotten or ignored. The Forest is absolutely malicious, and those that embody its power are absolutely subject to its whims. Don't forget the bullshit with Mai and how he manipulated her into showing him who to target, which is just a whole other writing thing I'm not getting into. Also the bullshit with Mai in general. Congratulations, you get to be the prize for whoever wins! Basically if in ten years we have the return of the Invess as a major enemy, I would not be surprised. Gaim is interesting on the subject of suit design because the designs were all, mostly good, but the production team seemed to have a serious problem keeping them in good shape. The hero suits, of course, were, but I'm fairly certain the Kiwami suit was showing some obvious wear and tear by the end. I know the first Monster suit was in horrible condition half way through the series, never mind when they brought it back at the end, and Kouta's Man At The Beginning outfit is just the cheapest looking thing
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Sep 7, 2017 15:42
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Which is why I'm saying that every escalation Kouta forces himself to go through is based on the core theme of blowing up the status quo, up until God Kouta. Sagara manipulates him into taking the Driver at all to overcome the street wars, Raiment to fight Yggdrasil's Riders, Triumph to fight Yggdrasil itself, and Zenith to fight the Overlords. And then you get to the final confrontation, which you, Burkion, want to be against Helheim, but is actually against humanity itself, or rather the possibility that humanity is not worth saving as represented by Lord Baron. Helheim, textually, is not the evil in itself, but an artificial factor that pressures people until they turn into monsters who will sell out their race for either their desires or their ideals. Someone said once that Urobuchi's characters are more arguments than people; Helheim is the factor that squeezes them until they are distilled into those philosophies. Helheim is an absolute. It is a problem that is engineered to demand, unavoidably, a price, and that inevitability is what Kouta rejects over and over again - Takatora's 6/7 sacrifice, Yggdrasil's bombing, Mitsy, Kaito, Roshuo. The final price it demands is humanity, and Kouta chooses to sacrifice himself instead. Yes, there are several execution problems with this, such as:
Helheim isn't the system. It's the world the system is built in. It's the bedrock that you have to work on and around, not through.
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Sep 7, 2017 16:19
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I will say that if there's anything I didn't like about Gaim, it's that Kouta just kept getting upgrades literally handed to him by the whims of Forest DJ Man. Also, it would have been fun if Kouta actually died at the end of the fight with Mitch and he became the new Gaim out of redemption.
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Sep 7, 2017 16:36
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That was kind of the crux of the issue with Gaim, wasn't it? It wound up for punches like an Urobochi series, but had no followthrough on them, and everything was resolved with either a cop-out, or in a deeply unsatisfying way. The only character with anything like a satisfying story arc was Kaito. Even then, it only really works once you go back and reinterpret everything he does throughout the series as his long-term goal being "create a world where people like me don't have to/can't exist".
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Sep 7, 2017 20:16
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There's also the bit in Gaim where Roshuo redirects nukes at the United States which has never ceased to be something I've joked about when something crossed over with Gaim. For instance, Gou came from the USA in Drive the next year - how was he doing in the nuclear apocalypse? :P
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Sep 7, 2017 20:23
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Ryuki also stopped existing at the end of his series, which means the one in crossovers must be Dragon Knight.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:25
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TenCentFang posted:Ryuki also stopped existing at the end of his series, which means the one in crossovers must be Dragon Knight. Or the ridiculous Decade Ryuki lawyer-verse one, you can't forget that. They even have the same combat-time weird use of the Mirror World if I remember correctly. Build's also going to be "fun" to reconcile with crossovers unless they stick it in an alternate universe to the main one.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:27
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TenCentFang posted:Ryuki also stopped existing at the end of his series, which means the one in crossovers must be Dragon Knight. To be fair Ryuki pulled an Ex-Aid where The ending isn't in the series, but the movie that came out during the series. Final Episode is literally the finale of Ryuki, set God knows how many times into the time loop of that whole loving mess
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Sep 7, 2017 20:28
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Burkion posted:To be fair Ryuki pulled an Ex-Aid where The ending isn't in the series, but the movie that came out during the series. Final Episode is literally the finale of Ryuki, set God knows how many times into the time loop of that whole loving mess Ehhhh, that doesn't work. Considering the final Ryuki TV episode ends on the creation of a Rider War-less timeline and the final death(?) of the Kanzaki siblings. Episode FINAL is a previous timeline due to that, IMHO.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:30
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gourdcaptain posted:Ehhhh, that doesn't work. Considering the final Ryuki TV episode ends on the creation of a Rider War-less timeline and the final death(?) of the Kanzaki siblings. Episode FINAL is a previous timeline due to that, IMHO. Yeah, I was always under the impression that the Ryuki movie was more of a What If scenario rather than the intended finale of the show (I think it was originally going to be at one point though but they ended up changing their minds and continuing the series anyway). I will admit that I kind of prefer the movie ending to the one presented in the series though.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:42
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Larryb posted:Yeah, I was always under the impression that the Ryuki movie was more of a What If scenario rather than the intended finale of the show (I think it was originally going to be at one point though but they ended up changing their minds and continuing the series anyway). I really like what the TV ending is going for, but it doesn't present it in the most clear way. The Movie ending is... alright, I just don't really care for the earlier bits of the film with Kamen Rider Femme (god, that name) being handled pretty badly and Ryuga... being a weird thing. (Also the fact that Inoue has one of his many examples of being unable to write Kobayashi characters very well in my opinion with the film's handling of Shinji. See the OOO part of Movie Wars Core and the utter terribleness that is episode 22 of Timeranger. -_-) Ryuki's my personal favorite Rider series for a lot of reasons, but I'll admit it has a lot of rough bits. I think we can both agree that the TV ending and movie ending are both superior to either of the endings of the 13 Riders special, though. :P
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Sep 7, 2017 20:48
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gourdcaptain posted:I really like what the TV ending is going for, but it doesn't present it in the most clear way. The Movie ending is... alright, I just don't really care for the earlier bits of the film with Kamen Rider Femme (god, that name) being handled pretty badly and Ryuga... being a weird thing. (Also the fact that Inoue has one of his many examples of being unable to write Kobayashi characters very well in my opinion with the film's handling of Shinji. See the OOO part of Movie Wars Core and the utter terribleness that is episode 22 of Timeranger. -_-) Ryuki's my personal favorite Rider series for a lot of reasons, but I'll admit it has a lot of rough bits. I think we can both agree that the TV ending and movie ending are both superior to either of the endings of the 13 Riders special, though. :P True. I mostly don't care for the TV finale because I kind of hate Reset Button endings to begin with (if you're going to invalidate the entire journey at the end, why watch it to begin with?) and can't really think of any media that's handled that particularly well. It also means that technically all the Ryuki cameos after the series (aside from Decade which was a separate universe) shouldn't have happened. But then again Toei only really seems to care about continuity when it fits their story so that's about par for the course.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:58
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PMush Perfect posted:That was kind of the crux of the issue with Gaim, wasn't it? It wound up for punches like an Urobochi series, but had no followthrough on them, and everything was resolved with either a cop-out, or in a deeply unsatisfying way. The only character with anything like a satisfying story arc was Kaito. Even then, it only really works once you go back and reinterpret everything he does throughout the series as his long-term goal being "create a world where people like me don't have to/can't exist". Mitsy had a decent end if you ignore the last episode. Just ignore the last episode. It doesn't fix all the issues with Gaim but it does many.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:01
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The only good reset button is an imperfect one, where some of the consequences still bleed through.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:01
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PMush Perfect posted:The only good reset button is an imperfect one, where some of the consequences still bleed through. But enough about DC Comics.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:05
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Larryb posted:True. I mostly don't care for the TV finale because I kind of hate Reset Button endings to begin with (if you're going to invalidate the entire journey at the end, why watch it to begin with?) and can't really think of any media that's handled that particularly well. It also means that technically all the Ryuki cameos after the series (aside from Decade which was a separate universe) shouldn't have happened. But then again Toei only really seems to care about continuity when it fits their story so that's about par for the course. I don't quite view the ending as a reset button ending in a frustrating way to me given it involves Yui being permenently dead but the thing I really like about the ending is that given how rigged the Ryuki Rider War is even to the guy running it the only way out was for the villain to finally give up, pushed into doing so by Yui and indirectly by Shinji's actions. That said, I still have no idea if the crazy stuff going down in the finale with the army of dragonfly monsters storming the real world, all mirrors shattering, and the increasingly ominous background glow indicates some kind of end of the world as brought about by the Rider War's state but as I said, the series has some rough points. I absolutely love the endings for the series's main timeline main cast, though. And to be fair to the crossover problem, Heisei crossovers wouldn't be a thing until Kiva years down the line (and the less said about Climax Deka, the better), barring the utter sillyness that is the Ryuki Hyper Battle Video, and that's a weird dream Shinji had. PMush Perfect posted:The only good reset button is an imperfect one, where some of the consequences still bleed through.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:05
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The really frustrating thing is, Madoka Magica did it brilliantly. It really did. Until the movie that wrecked it too but then Gen seems to have issues with continuing his own work.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:06
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Burkion posted:The really frustrating thing is, Madoka Magica did it brilliantly. There are reasons I've called Madoka reverse Ryuki. I don't like Madoka as much, but it's a hilarious set of parallels.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:07
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I have an ex that loving hates Rebellion but I thought it was pretty good and the ending made perfect sense. We were talking about it literally just this morning. Am I in the minority on that?
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Sep 7, 2017 21:07
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TenCentFang posted:I have an ex that loving hates Rebellion but I thought it was pretty good and the ending made perfect sense. We were talking about it literally just this morning. Am I in the minority on that? I like Rebellion, but it's freaking weird and awkward as an ending. And it depends on how much you find the first half unsettling or just tedious. (I'm in the unsettling camp.)
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Sep 7, 2017 21:08
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gourdcaptain posted:There are reasons I've called Madoka reverse Ryuki. I don't like Madoka as much, but it's a hilarious set of parallels. Madoka is VERY much inspired by Ryuki, and Gen himself I think cited it as such. Amusingly, so is Fate Stay Night. Ryuki was a very influential work it turns out.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:08
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Burkion posted:Madoka is VERY much inspired by Ryuki, and Gen himself I think cited it as such. And then OOO borrows a bit from F/SN so uh... weird tag chain there.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:14
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gourdcaptain posted:And then OOO borrows a bit from F/SN so uh... weird tag chain there. Really? Can you explain this one to me?
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Sep 7, 2017 21:21
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gourdcaptain posted:And then OOO borrows a bit from F/SN so uh... weird tag chain there. And then Kill La Kill jacks OOO and yeah We've got quite the knot of inspirations and references in anime and Rider.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:21
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Dexie posted:Really? Can you explain this one to me? Both shows are about a protagonist that's (mostly) lost the ability to desire things related to themselves as opposed to caring about others due to past trauma. Eiji's example is a lot more rooted in semi-realistic psychology, though.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:22
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I thought the first half of Rebellion was great. All those little "this is actually super hosed up" moments, the transformation sequence especially. Personally, I feel like Bebe added nothing to the story, though, and I agree that the ending is weird.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:22
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What Bebe added was "Hey, it's the meme! I like this!" gently caress Rebellion.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:44
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You motherfuckers will rue the day you took over the toku thread
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Sep 7, 2017 22:53
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:You motherfuckers will rue the day you took over the toku thread Wait, poo poo, that's work! YOU WERE RIGHT I REGRET EVERYTHING 
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Sep 7, 2017 22:55
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PMush Perfect posted:We'll rue the day we have an OP that gets updated? Updating is for cowards and weaklings
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Sep 7, 2017 23:00
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