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B This is a good system. I wouldn't worry about the lack of gas giants, even if there isn't any Sorium to be found terrestrially. There is a very good chance for another 1-3 JP's leading elsewhere, and we have plenty of sources of fuel in Sol. That said, finding and exploiting an extrasolar source of Sorium should be priority #3, after repairing our naval production and launching a jump capable survey ship.
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Sep 10, 2017 04:24
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Honestly, if we net Uranus from this deal we should be sitting pretty for sorium for a while. I'm interested in getting more of the other TNEs to boost our manufacturing.
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Sep 10, 2017 04:54
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Also someone should lean on the techies and get them to work on researching engine upgrades, because once you start exploring extrasolar systems being able to react to threats quickly is paramount and 3-4k km/s isn't gonna cut it when you have to send a fleet across 4 jump points. I say start them researching now even though we don't even have a gravitational scanning ship (to find new jump points) yet because engine tech takes a lot time to research and prototype.
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Sep 10, 2017 04:55
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B no brainer.
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Sep 10, 2017 04:58
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Dirt5o8 posted:I gotta ask: Where is everyone getting these badass sci-fi/space pics from? They're all pretty badass. I have been wondering the same thing. Makes me want to dream away on a 12 hour shift in the middle of the North Sea. Also B off course.
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Sep 10, 2017 05:39
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Baron-of-hell posted:I have been wondering the same thing. Makes me want to dream away on a 12 hour shift in the middle of the North Sea. Google images, at a guess. oh and B, with the caveat that we should try and wheedle or trade for some tech from terra if we can as well. what's the situation with pluto?
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Sep 10, 2017 05:50
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B but try to look unhappy about it, that's a pretty darn good system we have there assuming it is uninhabited, no reason to let the terrans know that though. Generally what I'd look for in a system is as many planetary bodies as possible because that means more chances at getting minerals. At least one readily habitable one is good too. Gas giants are nice but you don't need that many of them, they have functionally infinite fuel, the issue is the extraction rate which is a matter of building infrastructure, not how many of them you have.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 06:03
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B, but first try to argue for an arrangement where we get all outer-system JPs and they get the inner-system ones, since a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and we're buying blind and all that. That way we can act like the actual deal we get is a compromise instead of what we want.
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Sep 10, 2017 06:16
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They're not going to agree to that. They've already surveyed the inner system, any new finds will be in the outer system.
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Sep 10, 2017 06:24
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Added Space posted:They're not going to agree to that. They've already surveyed the inner system, any new finds will be in the outer system. I think that's his point. If you want a puppy, start by asking your parents for a tiger.
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Sep 10, 2017 06:26
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Planetary assessment of the provisionally named Te Toi-o-nga-Rangi (TTonR) system regarding colonisation tl;dr: at least one good, easy colonisation target Nice, a new system! How good is it actually? We want new systems for TNE minerals, colonisation potential, extra jump points, galactic strategic position and other fun stuff. Geological & gravitational surveys are needed regarding TNE minerals & any extra jump points but we can take a look at colonisation potential right now Saros posted:After over an hour Veloxyll calls it enough. Over the protestations of his astronomers he orders a return to Sol carrying the news of the remarkable system they have discovered. The crew dubs it Te Toi-o-nga-Rangi after the highest heavens of Polynesian lore but this of course will be subject to political whims. Normal human colonisation tolerances in Aurora, regarding terraforming  We can colonise anything by using a lot of infrastructure but ideally we want to (eventually) get within all tolerances, to have no need for any infrastructure Gravity Min 0.1 , max 1.9 , cannot ever change We have 7 candidates within gravity tolerance; TTonR II, TTonR III, TTonR IV's moon, TTonR V, TTonR VI, TTonR VII and TTonR VIII Breathable atmosphere Min oxygen 0.1 atm, max 30% oxygen of total atmosphere, no dangerous gases, can be changed slowly One of our candidates, TTonR VII, contains problematic Sulphur Dioxide. It makes up 9.7% of the atmosphere & that atmosphere is somewhat dense at 1.25 atm of total pressure. So we'll need to pump out that ~0.121atm of Sulphur Dioxide before even starting on the other requirements. More than 0.234 atm of preexisting atmosphere is nice, only needing 0.1 atm of oxygen added Temperature Min surface temperature 10c , max 38c , can be changed slowly by human actions This is the big one, the requirement that typically needs the most atmospheric changes. We can practically alter the temperature slowly by injecting safe greenhouse or anti-greenhouse gases. There are practical upper & lower limits as we also need to keep the total atmospheric pressure under an (Aurora) human survivable 4.0 atm but we also want to do the least amount of work because it is really slow. We can change 0.001 atm per terraformer per year, speeding up considerably with research. The closer it already is to ideal the better but we also need to consider any frozen hydrospheres. As we warm them up these will thaw, reducing the planetary albedo and giving us a leg up in warming the planet. TTonR V and in particular TTonR IV's moon stand out the most from just eyeballing it. TTonR V's massive ice sheet covering 95% of the surface is possibly a really big boost in warming the planet but exactly how much it helps is fairly complex (and I don't know) TTonR IV's moon will need oxygen but has no pre-existing atmosphere and is already at a tolerant temperature of 10.4c ! We will only need 0.334 atm worth of terraforming to make this ideal; 0.1 atm of oxygen + 0.234 atm of probably nitrogen. To put this into perspective the amount of atmospheric terraforming changes needed to ideally terraform Venus is 96.55 atm, Mercury needs 0.73 atm, Luna requires 0.334 atm and Mars (from scratch) is 0.324 atm Ladies & Gentlemen, we are looking at another Mars! Or at least no worse than Luna TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 06:37
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Well we can agree to B if they also give us Pluto alongside Uranus. I'm very nervous about there not being a fuel source.. this means all our fuel capabilities is in sol and easily interdicted / destroyed by terra.
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Sep 10, 2017 07:46
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B, but act reluctant about it and see if we can wheedle anything else out of them. Pluto for example.
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Sep 10, 2017 08:57
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The location of that jump point is currently considered a DMZ, isn't it? That's what started the war in the first place. Might want to secure Mars' right to build military installations there. Edit: Oh wait, totally wrong place. I got some comets mixed up.
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Sep 10, 2017 09:05
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Affi posted:I'm very nervous about there not being a fuel source.. this means all our fuel capabilities is in sol and easily interdicted / destroyed by terra. We don't quite know if there's a fuel source in there or not. There's no gas giants for sure but there may still be regular Sorium deposits. Still it is an interesting consideration and it might be worth shifting a proportional amount of our strategic reserve of fuel into TTonR system, as we move in
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Sep 10, 2017 10:09
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TheWetFish posted:We don't quite know if there's a fuel source in there or not. There's no gas giants for sure but there may still be regular Sorium deposits. Still it is an interesting consideration and it might be worth shifting a proportional amount of our strategic reserve of fuel into TTonR system, as we move in Definitely one of our first priorities once large scale travel is possible should be to set up a military installation and a few well guarded fuel depots. How far away are those dwarves and how long will it take us to scout their associated bodies? The system will never really be "safe" until we've made sure there aren't any dangers that far out. Will it take our scouts years to go that far and is it impossible for us?
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Sep 10, 2017 10:16
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Affi posted:Definitely one of our first priorities once large scale travel is possible should be to set up a military installation and a few well guarded fuel depots. You're raising really good points but one of the dwarf stars is a tad closer than the other Saros posted:A new system discovered. If it makes you feel better anything out that far is not posing any more of a threat than any unexplored jump points in TTonR which might suddenly deposit surprises a lot closer to us. Or in Sol. We should really hop along and grav survey the whole system 
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Sep 10, 2017 10:41
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Given that the asteroid belt in that system is beyond a circle ten times the distance of Sun-Pluto, and one of the dwarves is a quarter of a light year away, scanning the whole system on our current tech level seems to be impossible, but given it is only one jump from Mars,we should be able to send help in time.
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Sep 10, 2017 11:36
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In case anyone is interested in visiting one of those stars: at a speed of 4000 km/s it would take about 187,000 years to fly a distance of 1/4 light year. So unless there is an alien presence out there that can travel at relativistic speeds we shouldn't need to worry about it.
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Sep 10, 2017 13:11
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A So it is a good system with a few terraformable planets, it isn't the best system though. I'm concerned about the possibility that there are no jump points, or it is a system with a bad chain of jump points that lead nowhere. In that case we would be solely reliant upon the Earthers for access to better systems, that gives them power over us and that is a bad thing. That is if we don't discover new jump points in Sol before they do, I think the Earth has a head start though. In the short term B is beyond a shadow of a doubt the best option, it could hurt us long term though, so I prefer short term pain for long term gain.
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Sep 10, 2017 13:46
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Not really, the only downside with B is that earth has potentialy some fantastic super earth stuffed full of TNEs and needing no terraforming in their JP. All other points after these 2 will be free travel.
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Sep 10, 2017 13:50
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Pharnakes posted:Not really, the only downside with B is that earth has potentialy some fantastic super earth stuffed full of TNEs and needing no terraforming in their JP. All other points after these 2 will be free travel. OK I slightly misread the proposal quote:Agree to the Terran proposal for jump points. Exclusive access to one each in Sol and share any others that are discovered. Terra will likely allow you to annex Uranus and negotiate with the TFS for rights to the Saturn System I'm still concerned that Earth has a headstart in the home system, they say that future jump point s are shared but they don't say they have to share as soon as the JP is discovered. By the time they reveal new JPs, they could already have sent other ships through and laid claim to what lies beyond. Correct me if I'm wrong but Earth is significantly ahead in the art of searching for JPs?
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Sep 10, 2017 13:57
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Sad King Billy posted:A Legitimate concern. Helpful people in the Discord were running the numbers and it looked fairly good, something in the order of 10% chance it's a dead end. Worst case we use the resources from this system to wage war for the other systems, so this would have to be a complete & total flop on multiple metrics to really screw us United Terra is ahead in the Sol grav survey, having done any at all but we're in a much better position to leverage JPs with our sweet  . Also as much as I bitch about how difficult theoretically assaulting a jump point would be for us, it would be dramatically more fatal for United Terra
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Sep 10, 2017 14:09
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Oh man what the hell even is this system  And right when I'm about to get smacked by a hurricane and lose my internet, too.Like, this place just simply does not conform to the laws of nature as we understand them. I think
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Sep 10, 2017 14:27
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Nevets posted:In case anyone is interested in visiting one of those stars: at a speed of 4000 km/s it would take about 187,000 years to fly a distance of 1/4 light year. So unless there is an alien presence out there that can travel at relativistic speeds we shouldn't need to worry about it. Unfortunately your maths has dropped a few decimals here, a lightyear is about 75 years of travel at 4000kps. Saros fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 15:02
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Yeah, redid the math and 1/4 light year at 4000kps comes out to 18.7 years.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:18
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TheWetFish posted:Legitimate concern. Helpful people in the Discord were running the numbers and it looked fairly good, something in the order of 10% chance it's a dead end. Worst case we use the resources from this system to wage war for the other systems, so this would have to be a complete & total flop on multiple metrics to really screw us e^: you get grav survey sensors as soon as you research Jump Point Theory tech, but there's also the retool+build time for a survey ship. And a second ship with a jumpdrive in order to get it through the Crazycryodude posted:Oh man what the hell even is this system Newtonian physics would also contradict things like how all orbits are perfectly circular and the only that gravity seems to exist at all is as a number determining which planets are completely uninhabitable (without a lot of genemodding) But speaking of the migraine that is Aurorastrophysics, that kind of system really needs intra-system jumps to be anything other than a flavoriffic waste of CPU, though it would also be awesome if there was an option to make Jupiter-mass planets (or smaller?) and dwarf stars (or larger?) capable of generating those. Or support for modding so people can make their own who-gives-a-gently caress-about-your-dumb-arbitrary-magical-pseudoscience-simulator-I-just-want-to-have-fun conveniences. 
silentsnack fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 15:24
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Saros posted:Unfortunately your maths has dropped a few decimals here, a lightyear is about 75 years of travel at 4000kps. Math: The true enemy of Mars.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:27
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Nevets posted:7. An international joint space force will be established, with Terra & Mars each contributing no fewer than 2 capital ships, 10 picket vessels, and sufficient support ships. Ship crews will be drawn from all nations and include a contingent of diplomats & scientists; any initial negotiation & scientific discoveries of extra-solar intelligences will go through this group. The JSF mandate is to operate exclusively outside the Sol System and defend the interests of all of humanity from unanticipated dangers. Whelp, I can see which way the wind is blowing. So I'll reluctantly accept B. I'd like to see us wring significant concessions out of Putin though. Starting with the establishment of a Space Patrol as outlined by Nevets above. Who can resist the siren song of the glorious 70s rocket future?  I'd also want their support for potentially allowing other super powers to claim exclusive rights to one future JP as well. Mostly I'm thinking about TFS here, but I imagine we could use this offer to wring more short-term reparations from the IC as well. I'd also want UTs active help in supporting Martian claim to the entire outer system except for the areas around Saturn and Jupiter. It'd be pretty sweet if we could squeeze out a tech from Puty in exchange for our obviously very generous agreement to buy a pig in a poke in exchange for letting him have a system that must be useful or he wouldn't want it so bad. There could be horrible man-eating aliens on the other side of that JP. Or a nebula too dense for our ships to survive traversing. Or worse yet, it could be empty and a dead end. I know its not, but they don't know we know that. One thing to keep in mind is that our travel times, both out to the JP and then from the JP to the useful worlds are going to be much longer than UTs. Their JP is hilariously close to Earth which cuts down their round trip time. Meaning they can do more with the same resources as us; only being Earth, they have more resources.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:37
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Nevets posted:Yeah, redid the math and 1/4 light year at 4000kps comes out to 18.7 years.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:43
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What speeds are feasible in a few years? Decades?
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Sep 10, 2017 18:30
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Its generally never a wise idea to expand to bodies super loving far away because its logistically easier and less resource intensive to just find another system where you wont have to spend years and poo poo tons of fuel shuttling back and forth between distant points.
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Sep 10, 2017 18:33
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I'm also pretty sure that star doesn't have anything around it, or it would have been mentioned in the system survey.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:03
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First Aurora LP I've gotten into and caught up with and it's a fantastic one at that! Good job Saros! Would be happy to be made an officer. No preference on ship type but I would like the ship name to be 'Meteor'!
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Sep 10, 2017 21:36
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I can see it now, the Meteor (which is not a Meteor) becoming a meteor in some alien sky.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:08
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SkySteak posted:First Aurora LP I've gotten into and caught up with and it's a fantastic one at that! Good job Saros! Should be Captain SkySteak of the Meatier.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:10
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silentsnack posted:But speaking of the migraine that is Aurorastrophysics, that kind of system really needs intra-system jumps to be anything other than a flavoriffic waste of CPU, though it would also be awesome if there was an option to make Jupiter-mass planets (or smaller?) and dwarf stars (or larger?) capable of generating those. Or support for modding so people can make their own who-gives-a-gently caress-about-your-dumb-arbitrary-magical-pseudoscience-simulator-I-just-want-to-have-fun conveniences. Unless I'm mistaken superjovian planets will generate lagrange points which can be used to jump around in system. Like, OOC knowledge and all that but it's in the game.
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Sep 11, 2017 01:10
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Nevets posted:Should be Captain SkySteak of the Meatier. It's perfect! I am glad that I have caught up as we're exploring a new frontier. Who knows what treasures the people of Mars can find in this wondrous cosmos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7K9SycELA ( http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2n51cz As the YT vid is blocked in the UK )
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Sep 11, 2017 05:58
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Telsa Cola posted:Its generally never a wise idea to expand to bodies super loving far away because its logistically easier and less resource intensive to just find another system where you wont have to spend years and poo poo tons of fuel shuttling back and forth between distant points. What about when you account for in system jump points?
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Sep 11, 2017 06:26
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"Do you want the good news or the bad news first?" "Good please." "We've found the jump points in the new system!" "That's great. What's the bad news?" "They're around the outer stars."
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Sep 11, 2017 06:30
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