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spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.
Long shot: does anyone know about the internal mechanics of an espresso machine?



This is the boiler from my bean to cup machine (Philips Saeco Minuto ) and I think it is blocked. When I start the machine, the water priming struggles and eventually errors out.

I've run the machine uncovered and there is water pressure to the boiler, but nothing comes out.

I need someone to confirm that it is supposed to be free-flowing when disconnected- i.e. if I blow into the inlet, my air will come out of outlet.

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Munkaboo
Aug 5, 2002

If you know the words, you can join in too
He's bigger! faster! stronger too!
He's the newest member of the Jags O-Line crew!
Trip report on Third Wave Water capsules: Incredible.

I've been making some Ruby Las Nubes on Kalita all week with my fridge filtered water here in Richmond, VA. It was solid.

Then comes the third wave water capsules + distilled water. My oh my. The cup's brightness multiplied, complexity was there, and there was no longer this funky after tastes. These capsules are legit.

MrEnigma
Aug 30, 2004

Moo!

Ultimate Mango posted:

Considering how plastic-y and cheap my 5 Sette 270s felt, if the 30 feels even cheaper that is pretty worrisome.

I think they are really on to something with the design and retention. Rotating the outer burr was a genius idea, and even the built in scale is inspired. It they clearly have had production problems. And major quality issues.

I'm sending my last Sette back tomorrow.

I wonder if other manufacturers will run with it and do some designs from it. The scale thing is a bit sad, since Acaia scales are amazing and get a lot of positive reviews, kind of a bummer that it ended up not being all that well integrated (I'm guessing that's a baratza issue, not an Acaia one).

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


I think the problem was the Sette was a bit more than Baratza could handle. It's a great idea, 270 levels of grind, a scale, all with a prosumer price range. Just a bit too much to do.

rockcity
Jan 16, 2004

Munkaboo posted:

Trip report on Third Wave Water capsules: Incredible.

I've been making some Ruby Las Nubes on Kalita all week with my fridge filtered water here in Richmond, VA. It was solid.

Then comes the third wave water capsules + distilled water. My oh my. The cup's brightness multiplied, complexity was there, and there was no longer this funky after tastes. These capsules are legit.

Any idea what is in them? I have a bunch of water minerals for brewing and I've long considered mucking around with my coffee brewing water to see what changing some of the ratios of things would do. It does quite a bit in beer, especially with bitterness and how it presents on the palette. I assume coffee would be similar. My hesitation is that I am not adding them into my kettle. I could dose the coffee post brewing though. If there is any pH adjustment in there though, that could affect extraction and need to be done first.

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013

rockcity posted:

Any idea what is in them? I have a bunch of water minerals for brewing and I've long considered mucking around with my coffee brewing water to see what changing some of the ratios of things would do. It does quite a bit in beer, especially with bitterness and how it presents on the palette. I assume coffee would be similar. My hesitation is that I am not adding them into my kettle. I could dose the coffee post brewing though. If there is any pH adjustment in there though, that could affect extraction and need to be done first.

I looked a while ago and it was a bunch of water salts and minerals, so the pH moves a little harder, but not as much as if you're adding lactic 88% to lower it for brewing. Magnesium, calcium, and potassium were the main additions, but they also added bicarbonates to move it from nothing to some sort of hardness. You could use most of the same additions that we use in brewing, but I know I don't have any magnesium hanging around myself.

Definitely would need to do additions prior to extraction.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

spog posted:

Long shot: does anyone know about the internal mechanics of an espresso machine?



This is the boiler from my bean to cup machine (Philips Saeco Minuto ) and I think it is blocked. When I start the machine, the water priming struggles and eventually errors out.

I've run the machine uncovered and there is water pressure to the boiler, but nothing comes out.

I need someone to confirm that it is supposed to be free-flowing when disconnected- i.e. if I blow into the inlet, my air will come out of outlet.

Can't help with the air flow process but that's a bog standard Saeco boiler that can be had quite cheap:
https://encompass.com/item/9702221/Saeco/996530007586/Slim_Tub.boiler_1300W_120V_Assy.

Priming can be the pump, even if it engages it might not be engaging hard enough. Oddly the pump is more expensive to replace anyway:
https://encompass.com/item/9702281/Saeco/996530007754/Ulka_Pump_Eap5_s_120V-60hz

Blockage in the boiler in my experience (not a lot) is because either scale built up and got crazy, or a heating element blew and spewed its guts all over. How old is it, and how bad is your water? And have you been descaling?

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.

Scaramouche posted:

Can't help with the air flow process but that's a bog standard Saeco boiler that can be had quite cheap:
https://encompass.com/item/9702221/Saeco/996530007586/Slim_Tub.boiler_1300W_120V_Assy.

Priming can be the pump, even if it engages it might not be engaging hard enough. Oddly the pump is more expensive to replace anyway:
https://encompass.com/item/9702281/Saeco/996530007754/Ulka_Pump_Eap5_s_120V-60hz

Blockage in the boiler in my experience (not a lot) is because either scale built up and got crazy, or a heating element blew and spewed its guts all over. How old is it, and how bad is your water? And have you been descaling?

Thanks.

I am in the UK, so I guess I have to find a 220v version, but at least I know it is a standard part, so that helps.

I live in an extremely hard water area that kills kitchen stuff and I do descale when the machine says it should, but if I am honest, I should probably have done it more, given just how hard it is.
Machine is 3 years old. It is on its second boiler (it was replaced when I had warranty claim on the temperature sensor)

The pump seems to be working okay: it makes the same sound as it always has, I've opened it up and it was surprisingly clean.
When I test ran it without the metal hose clips on, the pressure was sufficient to blow it off the pump connector and blind me.

I've tried pushing a thin wire round the boiler and it seems to go a hell of a long way in, but not all the way out the other side. I've tried soaking it in descaling fluid.

If there is a blockage, it seems to be in a single area inside the boiler. I can't take it apart to look at (like other boilers), but I am loathe to swap it out without understanding if it is really blocked, or there is supposed to be a natural restriction.

kim jong-illin
May 2, 2011
The big thing that makes Third Wave Water work is the magnesium content - if you look at water standards published by the various speciality coffee big hitters, they almost all advocate using magnesium rather than calcium. It's got a larger ionic radius so it's more effective at extracting the organic acids that contribute to the flavour profile of good coffee. I use these filters for my water jug.

Water for Coffee is well worth buying for a deep dive into the physics and chemistry of how water constitution influences coffee flavour.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

spog posted:

Thanks.

I am in the UK, so I guess I have to find a 220v version, but at least I know it is a standard part, so that helps.

I live in an extremely hard water area that kills kitchen stuff and I do descale when the machine says it should, but if I am honest, I should probably have done it more, given just how hard it is.
Machine is 3 years old. It is on its second boiler (it was replaced when I had warranty claim on the temperature sensor)

The pump seems to be working okay: it makes the same sound as it always has, I've opened it up and it was surprisingly clean.
When I test ran it without the metal hose clips on, the pressure was sufficient to blow it off the pump connector and blind me.

I've tried pushing a thin wire round the boiler and it seems to go a hell of a long way in, but not all the way out the other side. I've tried soaking it in descaling fluid.

If there is a blockage, it seems to be in a single area inside the boiler. I can't take it apart to look at (like other boilers), but I am loathe to swap it out without understanding if it is really blocked, or there is supposed to be a natural restriction.

These guys are pretty good for UK, though I couldn't find the boiler on this page:
https://www.gaggia-parts.co.uk/epag...ic/Saeco_Minuto

I linked that though because there's a good exploded parts PDF on that page as well if that'll help you.

I'm not sure what's going on though, if you're seeing water moving in pre-pump, and not getting out post-boiler then you're probably going to have to replace that boiler. I assume you've disconnected the solenoid valve (Item#15, page 4 of the pdf above) off the connection and still seeing no water there? If that's the case then something's up in the boiler chamber is my guess; I showed the tech who actually repairs them here the same and that's his diagnosis.

bizwank
Oct 4, 2002

spog posted:

If there is a blockage, it seems to be in a single area inside the boiler. I can't take it apart to look at (like other boilers), but I am loathe to swap it out without understanding if it is really blocked, or there is supposed to be a natural restriction.
That boiler should definitely be free-flowing in both directions. If you can't get water or compressed air through it, and soaking it in descaler doesn't help (did you try for at least 24 hours?) then replacement is your only option. You should also consider only using bottled water in the machine from now on because that will be cheaper than repairing/replacing the machine every couple of years; with water that hard it's better to just not put it in the machine in the first place.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Let's talk about Turkish coffee for a bit.

I just had some and my love for espresso has been put to the test. Now two things:

- Will a glass stovetop prohibit me from buying a pot and making it? I think it's literally just heating up a special pot so no, but I want to check, and:
- Are any of the electric "turkish" kettles I see on Amazon worth looking at? I'd love to be able to do this at the office too, where I don't have access to a stovetop.

Other than that, I understand that the grinding situation is even more perilous than espresso. Talking about flour-consistency grind so a good grinder is essential.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Martytoof posted:

Let's talk about Turkish coffee for a bit.

I just had some and my love for espresso has been put to the test. Now two things:

- Will a glass stovetop prohibit me from buying a pot and making it? I think it's literally just heating up a special pot so no, but I want to check, and:
- Are any of the electric "turkish" kettles I see on Amazon worth looking at? I'd love to be able to do this at the office too, where I don't have access to a stovetop.

Other than that, I understand that the grinding situation is even more perilous than espresso. Talking about flour-consistency grind so a good grinder is essential.

Finally! Someone else who loves Turkish coffee. I just started using the Javapresse grinder last month, which does the job well on its finest setting:

https://www.amazon.com/JavaPresse-Coffee-Company-Manual-Grinder/dp/B013R3Q7B2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505082589&sr=8-1&keywords=javapresse

I've done it plenty of times on a glass stovetop, so I doubt you'll have any issues with it.

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007

My fiancee has some little alcohol burners for Turkish coffee she got when she was in Egypt.
They will get hot enough to boil the coffee properly and are pretty portable. She's kept a set up for it at her office in the past.

Ultimate Mango
Jan 18, 2005

There Bias Two posted:

Finally! Someone else who loves Turkish coffee. I just started using the Javapresse grinder last month, which does the job well on its finest setting:

https://www.amazon.com/JavaPresse-Coffee-Company-Manual-Grinder/dp/B013R3Q7B2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505082589&sr=8-1&keywords=javapresse

I've done it plenty of times on a glass stovetop, so I doubt you'll have any issues with it.

I also have a javapresse. It's totally fine.

I don't have a Turkish setup though. Good Turkish is great but bad is super muddy in my experience.

Sextro
Aug 23, 2014

I've a virtuoso and an interest in trying out Turkish coffee. Is it capable of grinding for it? What does a brewing vessel cost? Or am I better off trying to find somewhere that serves it here?

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007

She has a hand grinder she uses for Turkish it needs to be super duper fine like 10x sugar fine.
You can usually find a pot on etsy for around $20 for a simple one up to a couple hundred for a fancy set with cups and a tray and all that. Don't forget the cardamom it's essential for authentic Turkish coffee.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Sextro posted:

I've a virtuoso and an interest in trying out Turkish coffee. Is it capable of grinding for it? What does a brewing vessel cost? Or am I better off trying to find somewhere that serves it here?

The brewing method is a bit of an art form. You'd be better off trying it somewhere else before making it yourself.

Sextro
Aug 23, 2014

There Bias Two posted:

The brewing method is a bit of an art form. You'd be better off trying it somewhere else before making it yourself.

In that case how to find place serving it well?

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Sextro posted:

In that case how to find place serving it well?

I don't know specifically other than to suggest you try a decent restaurant serving middle-eastern/Mediterranean dishes. It's often on the menu based on my past experiences.

Sextro
Aug 23, 2014

Yeah there's a double handful of places around with it on the menu. I just figured it's like espresso, 80% of it is going to be poo poo.

Hauki
May 11, 2010


Sextro posted:

I've a virtuoso and an interest in trying out Turkish coffee. Is it capable of grinding for it? What does a brewing vessel cost? Or am I better off trying to find somewhere that serves it here?
Where is here?

I've got a virtuoso preciso and the smallest setting is fine for turkish. I also have a hand grinder that goes a little finer though I use either depending on what I feel like in the moment.
I think my cezve was like $20 maybe? Some are nicer than others, varying sizes, etc. Mine makes about 4 'traditional' (2 oz.) cups or like 1 8 oz. serving. It's probably 16+ oz. total, but you want room for foam etc.
Like you said, 80% of the places that serve it, it's going to be poo poo. Plenty of places even in Istanbul serve mediocre to lovely coffee. All it really requires is some time & attention. It helps if you let it sit a minute before serving to allow the grounds to settle some, I also use a pinch of salt in with the sugar but everyone's got their own take.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I'm actually hopeful that my Turkish coffee place is one of those 80%. If I'm in love with poo poo turkish coffee, I'll be even more elated when I learn to make it properly.

I bought this for the office, which I'm sure is terrible but I'm not allowed to actually bring fire to work so it's probably as good as I'll be able to do at the office. Also picked up a "legit" cezve from Etsy which hopefully isn't lined with lead so we'll see if I'm dead in a week or not.

some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Sep 11, 2017

Count Thrashula
Jun 1, 2003

Peak Performance.

Buglord
What's the dead-simplest way I can make awesome coffee at my work desk? Ideally not loud or messy. The coffee makers in the break room always taste gross and weak and mildewy.

A Clever dripper with hot water from the break room coffee maker? If I order beans pre-ground online will they be stale and garbage by the time I get them?

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

COOL CORN posted:

What's the dead-simplest way I can make awesome coffee at my work desk? Ideally not loud or messy. The coffee makers in the break room always taste gross and weak and mildewy.

A Clever dripper with hot water from the break room coffee maker? If I order beans pre-ground online will they be stale and garbage by the time I get them?

Pre-ground coffee begins its flavor within minutes after grinding. Once you open the vacuum seal, the ground coffee will become noticably blander very quickly. Hand grinders are pretty quiet, so you could probably get away with using one in the break room.

Count Thrashula
Jun 1, 2003

Peak Performance.

Buglord

There Bias Two posted:

Pre-ground coffee begins its flavor within minutes after grinding. Once you open the vacuum seal, the ground coffee will become noticably blander very quickly. Hand grinders are pretty quiet, so you could probably get away with using one in the break room.

Oh a hand grinder is a great idea, thanks!

Niyqor
Dec 1, 2003

Paid for by the meat council of America

COOL CORN posted:

What's the dead-simplest way I can make awesome coffee at my work desk? Ideally not loud or messy. The coffee makers in the break room always taste gross and weak and mildewy.

If I was back in an office with lovely coffee but had a source for hot water, I'd bring an aeropress and a hand grinder.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
I should also note that in absence of a good grinder I just bought this at the coffee shop that I get my turkish coffee from.

https://www.amazon.com/Mehmet-Efendi-Turkish-Coffee-8-8/dp/B0060HW38O

Probably poo poo coffee but what do I know, tastes good to me. Can't wait to get a good grinder and put that to shame though.

The Creature
Nov 23, 2014

COOL CORN posted:

What's the dead-simplest way I can make awesome coffee at my work desk? Ideally not loud or messy. The coffee makers in the break room always taste gross and weak and mildewy.

A Clever dripper with hot water from the break room coffee maker? If I order beans pre-ground online will they be stale and garbage by the time I get them?

I have a hand grinder and aeropress in my desk. I have room in my office for an electric kettle, but any hot water source should be good.

I am looking to upgrade to a grind and brew machine Breville BDC650 just to conserve desk space, but still entertaining the idea of something like the OXO Barista Brain and a cheap ~$100-150 grinder. I'd love to buy another espresso setup for the office, and could probably make the space issue work but I can't justify that much money on another grinder and espresso maker. Ideally I'd like something for my office that's right at or under $300.

There Bias Two
Jan 13, 2009
I'm not a good person

Martytoof posted:

I should also note that in absence of a good grinder I just bought this at the coffee shop that I get my turkish coffee from.

https://www.amazon.com/Mehmet-Efendi-Turkish-Coffee-8-8/dp/B0060HW38O

Probably poo poo coffee but what do I know, tastes good to me. Can't wait to get a good grinder and put that to shame though.

I'll second that brand. It's pretty tasty and very popular.

sellouts
Apr 23, 2003

Some local dude is selling a gs3 for like 5250 (5850 on eBay to account for fees)

He's used the thing like 18 months as a mobile coffee cart for events. Meaning tons of pulls, questionable water, various employees with differing training, likely no time to backflush when they're shutting down and the machine being moved around a ton. Also he posts a lot of pictures of the MP version, meaning nothing up close of the actual machine.

Feels like it's closer to 3k in value, given than it probably needs 500-600 in tune up and has been used commercially. 4K used seems to be around the price.

I don't think I can offer that low and should probably wait for him to re-list it.

DangerZoneDelux
Jul 26, 2006

Anybody in Chicago? Is Intelligentsia worth visiting? It's two blocks from my hotel but with their hours I would have to wake up and be there by 6am.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe

DangerZoneDelux posted:

Anybody in Chicago? Is Intelligentsia worth visiting? It's two blocks from my hotel but with their hours I would have to wake up and be there by 6am.

They usually have good coffee.

Maid
Mar 3, 2006

Do you know the Wu-Tang secret of mopping?

DangerZoneDelux posted:

Anybody in Chicago? Is Intelligentsia worth visiting? It's two blocks from my hotel but with their hours I would have to wake up and be there by 6am.

I hope you're near the one at Jackson and Dearborn, then. It's the only one open at 6. I also may be slightly biased but I definitely recommend checking them out.

DangerZoneDelux
Jul 26, 2006

Maid posted:

I hope you're near the one at Jackson and Dearborn, then. It's the only one open at 6. I also may be slightly biased but I definitely recommend checking them out.

Thanks I am. I just don't want to spend a week drinking Starbucks. My team travels the drat world and a lot of them holiday in Italy every year but they still insist on Starbucks every morning

Hauki
May 11, 2010


DangerZoneDelux posted:

Thanks I am. I just don't want to spend a week drinking Starbucks. My team travels the drat world and a lot of them holiday in Italy every year but they still insist on Starbucks every morning

Intelligentsia is a good step up from Starbucks.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



DangerZoneDelux posted:

I just don't want to spend a week drinking Starbucks.

New thread title, please mods

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Don't know if any of you guys are into them, but known evil company Nestlé has bought a majority stake in Blue Bottle, a relatively well known third wave bean provider:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/business/dealbook/nestle-blue-bottle-coffee.html

This is pretty much a bad thing in my opinion but having lived/worked in the third world I have an especial seething hatred for Nestlé.

HappyHippo
Nov 19, 2003
Do you have an Air Miles Card?

DangerZoneDelux posted:

Anybody in Chicago? Is Intelligentsia worth visiting? It's two blocks from my hotel but with their hours I would have to wake up and be there by 6am.

I had a coffee there and it was good.

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DangerZoneDelux
Jul 26, 2006

It was good and I will be going back many times the next few days. Unfortunately I won't be able to bring any of my colleagues along. There is a Starbucks in the lobby and one outside about 50 feet away. To make matters worse we are all Hilton Gold members so that means $10 a day to spend on hotel Starbucks for 6 days :( They are all super excited about free PSLs

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