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Eshettar posted:I'm dying to know how the final battle will be handled in Chapter Two. Since the turtle was left out of Chapter One, will all the cosmic stuff be omitted completely in favor of sticking with the physical confrontation with the spider like the mini-series did? There's an Entertainment article that goes into it a little bit. I don't have the link handy though.
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Sep 13, 2017 13:39
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I never read the book or saw the miniseries but had a total blast. It was actually pretty funny, when the Chapter One text appeared at the end of the movie, myself and people in my position all groaned. The folks who knew It from the book or previous adaptation cheered.
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Sep 13, 2017 14:26
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Maybe I'll see it again, but it also feels like y'all are reading way too much depth into what actually plays as a lovely, generic, modern horror flock. I don't have time to make a big post about it right now, but you are the one who is clouding their judgement here. I've never read the book and only saw the miniseries once when I was like ten, so I'm the perfect person for your complaints of "people who didn't read the book just won't get this they have to read it to fill it in!!!!!" and you're completely wrong. You don't need to read the book to know that Bill chanting nonsense is a speech exercise.
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Sep 13, 2017 14:29
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poo poo I forgot one thing I completely loved New kids on the block! Legit loved when they closed tits' door and he had a giant NKOTB poster on the back
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Sep 13, 2017 14:43
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GonSmithe posted:You don't need to read the book to know that Bill chanting nonsense is a speech exercise. The first example of it is pretty good. It's a sentence he repeats where most of the words have repeated long-s sounds that are hard for him to say, and when he can't, he says "poo poo!" without the impediment.
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Sep 13, 2017 14:50
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*sees a bike named Silver and hears a clown say "Beep, Beep"* "I need some kind of Rosetta Stone for this nonsense!!"
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Sep 13, 2017 14:55
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Richie says "The kids are all floating!!" as if the word "float" means anything in the context of the movie. Pennywise never says "float" at all. This poo poo is inexcusable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs6yLYYiUEQ SuperMechagodzilla posted:Mike is the only one who sort-of approaches Beverley's experience, but he still just plays the clown game. And note how Egg Boy is distinctly not traumatized by the sexualized H-carving attack. He shrugs it off it as just a weird thing that happened. All the boys' scare scenes are just wheel-spinning. Not quite, Eddie is explicitly abused by his mother (who subtly resembles Pennywise, like most of the adults that get more than one line in the film). Oh wait, duh. Henry is obviously abused. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 15:05
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I don't know if Silver has any book significance I guess but one of the scenes of Billy riding the bike he absolutely yells "Hi-ho Silver, away!" so if your complaint is that they don't explain Bill loves the Lone Ranger in the movie and thus his bike shouldn't be called Silver, that falls flat too. Basically, the movie would have been much worse the way you want it to be, apparently. Adding a scene where Bill explains to someone that he has a speech exercise for his stutter is useless when it's very obvious that's what it is.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The first example of it is pretty good. It's a sentence he repeats where most of the words have repeated long-s sounds that are hard for him to say, and when he can't, he says "poo poo!" without the impediment. This was my favorite acting moment from that kid. Also he's so lucky this movie did so well, he'll never be remembered as Henry from whom the book came from.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:14
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Yeah, thinking on it, I withdraw my complaint about Bill's mantra. It's not really significant in the Child era. It gets its weight later on, when Adult Bill uses it as kind of a talisman.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:16
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Richie says "The kids are all floating!!" as if the word "float" means anything in the context of the movie. Pennywise never says "float" at all. This poo poo is inexcusable. Yeah, you're right. There should've been a few instances where Pennywise says the word "float" to one of the kids, like,...idk...Eddie. That would've been neat. Edit: Also, would it have killed them to use the word in the marketing campaign at all?
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Sep 13, 2017 15:21
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All the movie posters had the tag line "You'll float too" Not to mention Georgie yelling that was pretty heavily emphasized. He also does say float to Eddie. Twice. CelticPredator fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 15:26
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Actually 3 times.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:29
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Nroo posted:Actually 3 times. "Where ya goin, Ed? If you lived here, you'd be home by now."
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Sep 13, 2017 15:32
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GonSmithe posted:I don't have time to make a big post about it right now, but you are the one who is clouding their judgement here. I've never read the book and only saw the miniseries once when I was like ten, so I'm the perfect person for your complaints of "people who didn't read the book just won't get this they have to read it to fill it in!!!!!" and you're completely wrong. You've got a fair point about the speech pathology thing. I'm more concerned with poo poo like "Stan sees the creepy painting woman because of his opinions of how the Torah treats women!" Maybe I'm being unfair, but it honestly feels like they just threw in references to things without establishing the context or characters at all. Ben sees a mummy at the end, completely unanchored by the mummy scene from the book. Georgie tells Bill that he'll float, but It never said that to Georgie. It says "beep beep" to Richie and nobody else ever did, despite it being constantly said in the book. Ben is cool because he's a natural architect and engineer, not because he likes NKOTB.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:40
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You got a lot of hangups, dude. Chill.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:46
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My wife took my picture standing next to a poster with "You'll float too" as the tagline; sorry I don't have proof. I'm much more concerned about the decision to change Pennywise from a dancing clown to an astronaut...and why is he wearing a straw boater hat inside his helmet? It's also really weird that in the book, Pennywise is often described as having big scary teeth, but every character in the movie holds an orange wedge in their mouth so that no teeth are ever seen. It made the dialogue hard to understand, too. Speaking of which, why does Billy keep repeating "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children?" I mean, I like creative adaptations, but it was all very off-putting.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:49
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Instead of recounting backstory, the film simply renders it visually. That's not really a problem.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:51
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MariusLecter posted:You got a lot of hangups, dude. Chill. Yes, this. Please.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:54
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:You've got a fair point about the speech pathology thing. I'm more concerned with poo poo like "Stan sees the creepy painting woman because of his opinions of how the Torah treats women!" IT takes the form of a child's fears, and a mummy is not that uncommon of a fear. IIRC in the book the only reason IT even appears to Ben as a mummy is because he watched a movie that scared him right? It's not exactly deep metaphor. Georgie saying "you'll float" to Bill is not actually Georgie, it's IT. It doesn't matter what Georgie has or hasn't heard.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y1dttyp8LI
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Sep 13, 2017 16:02
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Not quite, Eddie is explicitly abused by his mother (who subtly resembles Pennywise, like most of the adults that get more than one line in the film). If Eddie is the hypochondriac kid, then what we get is a very quick shot of a overstuffed medicine cabinet and then reams of expository dialogue -explaining that the medicine is actually placebo and his home life is a hellhole and so-on. None of that is ever visualized, and therefore not actually important to the narrative. All we're shown is that his mom doesn't believe in monsters, and that she's upset her son broke his arm in a crackhouse. In the actual film, Eddie copes with his frailties in a healthy way by reinterpreting his encounter with the older mean girl into an empowering experience. The girl bully gets no violent comeuppance; Eddie simply agrees with her that he is a Loser and wears her message as a badge of pride - not crossing it out, but painting the 1983 'V' miniseries logo overtop: V for Victory (against the shapeshifting reptilians). This victory over the girl is what makes him a 'Lover'.* Any subtextual abuse is pushed aside. This is tied into how Pennywise is consistently feminized, appearing either castrated or in drag. Meanwhile, Henry is (in grand King tradition) obviously deep in the closet. All the kids, including Beverley (but with the exception of Egg Boy), are united by their disgust at the feminine.
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Sep 13, 2017 16:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If Eddie is the hypochondriac kid, then what we get is a very quick shot of a overstuffed medicine cabinet and then reams of expository dialogue -explaining that the medicine is actually placebo and his home life is a hellhole and so-on. None of that is ever visualized, and therefore not actually important to the narrative. All we're shown is that his mom doesn't believe in monsters, and that she's upset her son broke his arm in a crackhouse. The exposition doesn't establish that Eddie is abused, Eddie's characterization establishes it. He is fully invested in his mother's neuroses, even though he knows something's wrong with her (if he uses his pharmacy account, he knows his mother will drag him off to the hospital "to be x-rayed for a week"). The main reason I feel like this is defensible is because, like you say, the film is technically very well made and therefore is very succinct visually (probably overly so in a lot of ways). We are shown a lot of stuff about Eddie in the two short scenes in his house. In both cases, he dwells in the well lit kitchen, whereas his mother dwells in the dimly lit den, glued to the TV exactly like Bev's dad and Henry's dad. In fact, the first time you see her, she's watching the same program as them. Both of his confrontations with her are at the portals to either room (there are a lot of portals and doors in the film). To further establish that his house is a prisonlike hellhole, Eddie isn't ever shown in his room. In the kitchen, we're shown two cabinets, one full of pills, the other full of junk food. That's before getting into the weird fat suit/red head/big glasses/Pennywise in drag thing. Much better than getting an offer of a blowjob by a leper. quote:In the actual film, Eddie copes with his frailties in a healthy way by reinterpreting his encounter with the older mean girl into an empowering experience. The girl bully gets no violent comeuppance; Eddie simply agrees with her that he is a Loser and wears her message as a badge of pride - not crossing it out, but painting the 1983 'V' miniseries logo overtop: V for Victory (against the shapeshifting reptilians). This victory over the girl is what makes him a 'Lover'.* Any subtextual abuse is pushed aside. The encounter with the girl bully is really interesting because it's like the only affection from a girl anyone else is shown. The losers are all enraptured by Bev, but Eddie pretty boldly makes sustained eye contact with Greta. He's easily the one most comfortable around girls. Even Billy, the "well adjusted one", has a very, very weird view of his own mother. Both appearances of her are really creepy. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 17:20
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:You've got a fair point about the speech pathology thing. I'm more concerned with poo poo like "Stan sees the creepy painting woman because of his opinions of how the Torah treats women!" You are. You're approaching it as a book reader, seeing book references without the layers of buildup the book has for those references, and thus they stand out of place for *you.* However, looking at it from outside of the novel, all of those things flow into the narrative of the film itself, ESPECIALLY considering a ton of foreshadowing for things that come into play in Chapter 2. You also missed a few things as people have pointed out (ie. there is an in the house view of Bill riding his bike and saying "hi ho Silver away!") For instance let's take the "you'll float too" thing. In the book, Pennywise establishes his catchphrase when he kills the kid. In the movie, it is established by the kid to the main character. It's just different - neither is better or worse, it's just different.
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Sep 13, 2017 17:27
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I saw the movie again, and Mike's character seemed a *little* better and more fleshed out than I initially assumed. The biggest issue with him is that there is this gigantic unending chunk of the film where he's just absent, and that chunk is scenes where the Losers are bonding. The book technically has the same issue (as Mike is the last to join); but old Mike is intercut with everything else, so he just seems that much more a part of the group.
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Sep 13, 2017 18:35
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The exposition doesn't establish that Eddie is abused, Eddie's characterization establishes it. He is fully invested in his mother's neuroses, even though he knows something's wrong with her (if he uses his pharmacy account, he knows his mother will drag him off to the hospital "to be x-rayed for a week").
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Sep 13, 2017 19:12
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Abuse and trauma are different things, absolutely. I wouldn't equivocate sexual abuse with "bad parenting", but medical child abuse, Munchausen by proxy, etc. pointedly abetted by other adults as normal and harmless is nevertheless a form of abuse.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:16
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Darko posted:You are. There's some kind of nostalgia blue-balls that people get when semi-meaningful details get changed in an adaptation. Ben helping to build a dam (I don't even remember this from the TV movie) or Bill explaining his stutter-mantra or Bill explaining that he liked The Lone Ranger wouldn't have made the movie "better", it'd just be tickling the nostalgia center of book-readers' brains. The movie stands well enough on its own; of course it's got flaws, but not simply checking off a list of random things people remembered from the book isn't one of them.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:21
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Not to say the movie goes the same route with it (although I don't think it's explicitly said one way or the other) but in the book Eddie's asthma medicine is indeed a placebo, but I don't think his mother knows that. Only the pharmacy guy does. She's not tricking him into thinking he has asthma, he actually does have it and the placebo actually does help him for whatever reason. Likely because it causes him to chill the f out which causes his attacks to subside. She is however completely neurotic and over-protective.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:25
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:pointedly abetted by other adults That's actually kind of interesting here. Greta is one of the bullies but she's the one who helps Eddie discover the MSBP. She writes LOSER on his cast but it's not truly an violent act as anything Henry does or what she herself does to Bev. In fact, Eddie maintains eye contact with her as she does it--unlike her episode with Bev or, again, any of Henry's brutality. Something to try to unpack.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:25
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PantsBandit posted:Not to say the movie goes the same route with it (although I don't think it's explicitly said one way or the other) but in the book Eddie's asthma medicine is indeed a placebo, but I don't think his mother knows that. Only the pharmacy guy does. She's not tricking him into thinking he has asthma, he actually does have it and the placebo actually does help him for whatever reason. Likely because it causes him to chill the f out which causes his attacks to subside. Without saying so, it's implied that he's having panic attacks, not asthma attacks (though hyperventilating can be a feature of a panic attack). Eddie's mother medicalizing every issue has a psychosomatic effect. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:That's actually kind of interesting here. Greta is one of the bullies but she's the one who helps Eddie discover the MSBP. She writes LOSER on his cast but it's not truly an violent act as anything Henry does or what she herself does to Bev. In fact, Eddie maintains eye contact with her as she does it--unlike her episode with Bev or, again, any of Henry's brutality. The pharmacist is also abetting Beverly's abuse, literally looking the other way because he's attracted to her.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:30
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Without saying so, it's implied that he's having panic attacks, not asthma attacks (though hyperventilating can be a feature of a panic attack). Eddie's mother medicalizing every issue has a psychosomatic effect. When my medical poo poo started kicking into high gear, my asthma as treated with some oral medication and an inhaler. Flash forward through a few surgeries plus years of therapy, and it became clear to me and my doctors that the inhaler was more a grounding exercise that a medical necessity. All the clues that Eddie suffers panic over asthma attacks are there in the house sequence. Especially when he's confronted after the fall, right when you'd think he'd most need to use his inhaler but - whaddya know - he keeps breathing fine now that the existential threat has been literally manifested in front of him. Semi-related, Ben loving NKotB is awesome and he's cool as hell. I got untold levels of poo poo when some friends found a cassette of stuff I taped from the radio and they took issue with my inclusion of 98 Degrees and Aaliyah. For those who want book fidelity there's enough established there to point toward his romantic destiny. Where Bill's concerned here, his last moment felt more like a, "Oh you sweet summer child," bonding moment instead of anything romantic. Now that I'm l getting some distance from my screening I think I'll be up for the sequel, though there are some conventional storytelling pitfalls it could fall back on to my probable disappointment.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:56
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I would be amused if the pharmacy girl ends up being grown up Eddie's wife.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:58
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Punch Drunk Drewsky posted:When my medical poo poo started kicking into high gear, my asthma as treated with some oral medication and an inhaler. Flash forward through a few surgeries plus years of therapy, and it became clear to me and my doctors that the inhaler was more a grounding exercise that a medical necessity. In the house, Richie even seems to have to remind Eddie that he has asthma, "don't breathe through your mouth because then you're breathing it in." As in, you have sensitive allergic reactions. Richie suddenly retches.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:02
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:In the house, Richie even seems to have to remind Eddie that he has asthma, "don't breathe through your mouth because then you're breathing it in." As in, you have sensitive allergic reactions. Richie suddenly retches. Actually what he says is "because then you're eating it" meaning that is worse than just smelling it. Don't think it has anything to do with his asthma.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:13
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PantsBandit posted:Actually what he says is "because then you're eating it" meaning that is worse than just smelling it. Don't think it has anything to do with his asthma. He's talking about how the house on Neibolt is permeated with decay and evil or whatever, but asthma is specifically an allergic hypersensitivity. Eddie doesn't have asthma. If he had asthma, he should definitely not be going into a dusty, moldy old house. Eddie's mom reminds him not to even roll around on freshly cut grass, as in, you're not even allowed to be a kid. Before going in the house, Bill stops stuttering. Bill and Eddie are not afraid. As soon as they go in the house, the kid who makes a big show of not being afraid of anything gets singled out right away.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:18
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BJPaskoff posted:There's some kind of nostalgia blue-balls that people get when semi-meaningful details get changed in an adaptation. Ben helping to build a dam (I don't even remember this from the TV movie) or Bill explaining his stutter-mantra or Bill explaining that he liked The Lone Ranger wouldn't have made the movie "better", it'd just be tickling the nostalgia center of book-readers' brains. The movie stands well enough on its own; of course it's got flaws, but not simply checking off a list of random things people remembered from the book isn't one of them. Dam thing is pretty big in the book because it's centered around the first bonding moment in the 50s. Ben gets bullied, escapes, and runs into two kids making a "baby" dam that gets smashed by Bowers and his buddies - the group then works with Ben to make a dam so awesome that it stops the whole river. The made for TV movie does it, but only slightly emphasizes both points, and I think the full dam comes a lot later than it does in the novel. I actually laughed at Richie's IT manifestation change. He was scared "of clowns" (which must have bored the hell out of Pennywise which is why he didn't even bother appearing to him until everyone else around him kept talking about IT), but the scene in which he said that was location set by the giant Paul Bunyan statue that was Richie's manifestation in the novel. Also, when the kids leave each other at the end, note who the first two to split off are.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:22
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:He's talking about how the house on Neibolt is permeated with decay and evil or whatever, but asthma is specifically an allergic hypersensitivity. Eddie doesn't have asthma. If he had asthma, he should definitely not be going into a dusty, moldy old house. Eddie's mom reminds him not to even roll around on freshly cut grass, as in, you're not even allowed to be a kid. Before going in the house, Bill stops stuttering. Bill and Eddie are not afraid. As soon as they go in the house, the kid who makes a big show of not being afraid of anything gets singled out right away. Ok? I'm not arguing any of that. I'm just saying that specific line wasn't a reference to his asthma, it was just a throw-away gag like beaver-trapping.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:25
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PantsBandit posted:Ok? I'm not arguing any of that. I'm just saying that specific line wasn't a reference to his asthma, it was just a throw-away gag like beaver-trapping. Richie's throwaway jokes are also part of his characterization, actually they're his only characterization, other than his being seen in synagogue with Stan in the montage.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:32
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Richie's throwaway jokes are also part of his characterization, actually they're his only characterization, other than his being seen in synagogue with Stan in the montage. Richie's schtick is one-note, but it reminds me of Rob Scallion's guitar work. Like how he'll tune all his strings to the same note or take a one-string instrument and build a song off of it. Not that Richie's dialogue is that dense, but it's the most kid-like in a way that put me at ease. He understands that he's uses "naughty" words but doesn't quite know the rhythm of when to use them so he keeps falling back on vulgarity as a way of distancing himself from his concern. Like with Ben, there's Richie's obvious concern about him bleeding, but he can't help himself from saying, "He's bleeding Hamburger Helper everywhere." This could have been cruel, but by that point we see he uses it as a deflection to try and keep some distance. That breathing line is one of my favorites. You've got Richie's concern for his asthma (as far as Richie knows) afflicted friend with him saying, "Don't breathe in through your mouth," then following that up with, "because then you're eating it." That last part is layered like whoa, you've got the metaphorical aspect of trying not to consume the evil of the house, but also that kid-esque obsession with bodily function like boogers or swallowing a chunk of diseased stuff when you've got a serious sinus infection. So, yeah, the line is explicitly about asthma, but it's also about Richie's coping strategy by trying to be "adult" through vulgarity, though still firmly rooted in kid-ish obsession with snot and boogers and so on.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:47
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