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CaptainRightful posted:No, I'm saying he's bad in both shows. His line readings are so labored, with the weird, deliberate cadence of someone trying his hardest to speak in an accent different from his own. Dominic West sucked, too, but at least he just barreled forward, allowing his brogue to slip through. Dinklage's accent is awful, but he's good enough otherwise that you can write it off as "fantasy English". oh thats too bad - I thought he was a great character in the wire - I never looked at him as trying too hard or something - but I'm not exactly mr-accent-guy.
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Sep 10, 2017 11:10
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I think some of Aidan Gillen's flaws with Littlefinger are poor directing too. His final scene has some really good stuff but there's times he slips out of any number of different accents, which is something a director should be flagging up and putting straight. Season 1 and 2 Littlefinger aren't really the same character. Speaking of Littlefinger's death though, I think it's dumb and bad that Sansa isn't the one who executes him. A Stark in Winterfell, the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword and all that. Arya walking up and doing some weird ninja poo poo doesn't have a satisfying feel like Sansa hanging him probably would have. Still a good scene though because of LF.
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Sep 10, 2017 11:18
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it would have been sick to have Sansa take his head off with oath keeper in one swing, like Jon and Ned but not Robb
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Sep 10, 2017 11:26
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CaptainRightful posted:No, I'm saying he's bad in both shows. His line readings are so labored, with the weird, deliberate cadence of someone trying his hardest to speak in an accent different from his own. Dominic West sucked, too, but at least he just barreled forward, allowing his brogue to slip through. Dinklage's accent is awful, but he's good enough otherwise that you can write it off as "fantasy English". Which is super confusing because you can totally get away with an Irish accent in a fantasy show. Irish accents are extra dope. I don't understand why Gillen didn't just let 'er rip, unless he actually sounds like lucky charms or something. And yeah, Dinklage's accent is, uh, Costneresque. I think more actors would be better served if they'd just go with their natural accents and let their acting + the plot overcome any fourth-wall-breakage it induces. See also: Sean Connery.
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Sep 10, 2017 14:05
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it would be kind of confusing for two brothers to have American and Danish accents I think
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Sep 10, 2017 14:32
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Aiden Gillen's accent is in that regard like a foul goblet of diarrhea placed upon the dais at the banquet hall in order to disguise the presence of some overripe cheese.
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Sep 10, 2017 14:34
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I tried to grrm that post up. I hope my jape didn't raise any alarums.
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Sep 10, 2017 14:34
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trying to keep like, all the lannjsters talking similar and all the people from winterfel or whatever makes sense but baelish is some loving hick from the rear end end of nowhere he could sound like anything so there no reason for him not to use his natural speak
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Sep 10, 2017 14:38
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I doubt anyone told him which accent he should use. D&D don't seem to really care about acting directions. They just let everyone read their lines.
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Sep 10, 2017 14:44
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I'm glad that people are acknowledging Gillens performance as littlefinger is completely awful. His weird Christian Bale as Batman whisper has annoyed me from the start.
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Sep 10, 2017 14:57
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violent sex idiot posted:it would be kind of confusing for two brothers to have American and Danish accents I think This show has armies teleporting across space and time, while Valhalla Ice raises an undead dragon with his just his hands. But different accents might strain credulity.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:51
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Remember how confusing it was to keep all the characters' nationalities straight in Casablanca and Paths of Glory because they all just used their normal accents?
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Sep 10, 2017 17:16
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worse than gillen's accent work is that every line from littlefinger reads as 100% evil, 100% of the time it's both an acting thing and a costuming & appearance thing Ideally we should have had some initial chance to feel about Littlefinger the way Catelyn feels about Littlefinger - safe, nonthreatening childhood friend, sweet guy, maybe a bit opportunistic, but trustworthy with what we get, it's like "I dunno, Cat, seems like your pornstache friend is real creepy, I'll bet he was probably creepy when you were in high school together too" (GRRM admittedly is guilty here too, making Littlefinger a notorious brothelkeep with an Evil Vizier goatee) (I think he should have just been some nondescript accountant)
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Sep 10, 2017 21:01
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Aiden Gillan just plays Littlefinger the same way he plays the bad guy in Shanghai Knights. Except he doesn't have Donnie Yen backing him up with a machine gun
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Sep 10, 2017 23:47
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The issue that the show had with a lot of characters is reducing them to one frequency. Book Littlefinger never seems to take anything seriously, but that's a mask to conceal his scheming lizard face. While show Littlefinger is just scheming lizard face. Tywin, as great as Charles Dance is, is just a stern leader, who sternly commands largely by intimidation. There's the great bit in the first book when, in two sentences, he convinces the mountain clans to fight for him by charming them, appealing to their vanity, playing them. You realise he can switch on the charm like a light. He understands the carrot just as well as the stick. Sometimes it works, like removing the Hounds occasional joviality and focusing on his self loathing, but charming Tywin would have been a thing to see
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Sep 11, 2017 00:06
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Dangerllama posted:Valhalla Ice
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Sep 11, 2017 00:51
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Snowman_McK posted:The issue that the show had with a lot of characters is reducing them to one frequency. This undercuts one of the best parts of the books - the non black/white nature of the book. Everyone is evil, everyone is good. The more you understand the characters motivations, the easier it is to like them - you start out hating jaime, and EVEN THOUGH he threw loving bran off a tower - you end up liking him. The hound is super evil killed a child, blah blah blah - but everyone is out shipping him and sansa. Ned is super good and honorable, and you end up thinking of him as a chump. Littlefinger is an interesting character - and not being sure if you should like/despise/distrust him is part of what makes it a good story. Sure he is looking out for himself, but does he care enough for Cat / Sansa to legit protect Sansa and see her as more than a sex interest / trophy / etc. In the book it looks like he is legit setting her up to be running things. I mean they did a good job with Jaime - and Cersei gets more depth in the TV show than the book I think - with that added scene with her and robert. Would have been nice if they could have kept that going with the various characters. I mean the whole point is that there isn't good and evil, there is just the game. and on that note, pleas repost the wire/got Cheese milk of the poppy crossover fic.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:58
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Speaking of Littlefinger's death though, I think it's dumb and bad that Sansa isn't the one who executes him. A Stark in Winterfell, the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword and all that. Arya walking up and doing some weird ninja poo poo doesn't have a satisfying feel like Sansa hanging him probably would have. Still a good scene though because of LF. I never thought of that bit of brilliance....what a missed opportunity that was extremely obvious considering season 7's nostalgia kick. I hated that scene completely and LF should have been killed off rather than wasted adding 'tension' to season 7.
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Sep 11, 2017 01:10
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kcroy posted:This undercuts one of the best parts of the books - the non black/white nature of the book. Everyone is evil, everyone is good. The more you understand the characters motivations, the easier it is to like them - you start out hating jaime, and EVEN THOUGH he threw loving bran off a tower - you end up liking him. The hound is super evil killed a child, blah blah blah - but everyone is out shipping him and sansa. Ned is super good and honorable, and you end up thinking of him as a chump. Cersei is a great character. The common problem is that, as you reveal a horrible/hateable character's tragic backstory, and you start understanding them better, they start behaving differently. Almost as if the character knows they've got your sympathy and they want to keep it. Cersei slowly reveals how she's been currency for her family her whole life, but she keeps on being utterly ruthless. The only difference is you understand why, with all the poo poo she's carrying round in her head. Jaime's cool because he's talked up as a great warrior, and the first time he actually fights on the page, he gets outsmarted by a 15 year old's battle plan.
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Sep 11, 2017 01:19
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Even the books slip badly in the "there's no good and evil, just people in conflict resorting to underhanded or desperate means" in the last ones. Sure, at first we see that Lannisters, Starks and Baratheons and others have their decent folk and their rotten people, that they have their own concerns and knots to untangle.... The three books later we have theNorth ruled by literal skin-peeling maniacs who feed their rapetoys to the dogs. And a crazy evil pirate popping in and winning a pirate election witha horn because he says it will bind dragons that he heard of somewhere. And a narcissistic moron queen with a pet necromancer sceming to behead half the court and every dwarf in the land. And a grotesque army of evil, bizarre slavers so comically over the top that Metal Gear bosses called and told them to tone it down a bit. To be fair, my main issue with the TV series was ho they messed up Jaime's storyline post-injury. He's still a jerk in the books and never really comes to terms with stuff like trying to kill Bran and ordering the murder of the Stark house guards, but there is some good stuff in seeing him trying to forge a new identity after losing his reason of being, and deciding if he's going to be a new man, he may as well be a decent one when possible. Shrugging that off to just let him go "well, father's dead, I can just gently caress my sister freely now, yay!" is far less interesting. Also, the whole "yeah, we let them capture Casterly Rock, it's no biggie" is just dumb. Letting your homeland be sacked with winter on the way would get your army in mutiny even in a world where winter doesn't last years. "Yeah, they are killing my cattle, raping my daughters and torching my home back West, but it's alright because the Commander said no one would expect us to march here to Highgarden. Though it does seem the Tyrrels forgot that castles are meant to withstand sieges, so can't fault him too much!"
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Sep 11, 2017 01:24
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Sephyr posted:Even the books slip badly in the "there's no good and evil, just people in conflict resorting to underhanded or desperate means" in the last ones. The books I've read thus far do understand that a feudal army isn't an army as we think of it now, an impersonal, monolithic entity that can be raised again and replicated based on a blueprint. It's a series of personal alliances. It gets that, hence the linguistic obsession with which lord commands which troop, which bannerman attend who, that the Lannister army is a big deal because Tywin is such a forceful personality. If a feudal leader killed pretty much everyone the way Cersei does at the end of season 6, that's the end of it. Everyone's dead. There's no one to call. I mean, it's a huge deal in the first book that some lords are reluctant to answer the call because their own lands are threatened. Robb's alliance falls apart because certain lords feel personally wronged. So, between slaughtering the city's nobility and allowing their own castle to fall, the final battle of the Lannisters should involve about eight of their own soldiers.
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Sep 11, 2017 01:30
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PupsOfWar posted:worse than gillen's accent work is that every line from littlefinger reads as 100% evil, 100% of the time Cat trusting Littlefinger is more because Cat's a world-class moron, though.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:06
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Sephyr posted:And a grotesque army of evil, bizarre slavers so comically over the top that Metal Gear bosses called and told them to tone it down a bit.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:22
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Snowman_McK posted:Cersei is a great character. The common problem is that, as you reveal a horrible/hateable character's tragic backstory, and you start understanding them better, they start behaving differently. Almost as if the character knows they've got your sympathy and they want to keep it. Cersei slowly reveals how she's been currency for her family her whole life, but she keeps on being utterly ruthless. The only difference is you understand why, with all the poo poo she's carrying round in her head. You are way for forgiving for Cersei's character than I am. I felt I had to really fight to get some sort of understanding for her ridiculous actions. She seemed written more like Ramsey, but just "crazy entitled bitch". I didn't get any of the subtly about being used as a pawn - although accurate, I don't see how that drives her character except where relating to her being remarried ( and fighting against her kids being used the same way ). Cersei at her best is in her conversation with Ned -where she admits the incest, and Ned tells her to get out of town ( and alternately the scene with Robert in the show ). But once we are past that, she is just insane harpy - GRRM just didn't do a good job IMO.
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Sep 11, 2017 05:42
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kcroy posted:You are way for forgiving for Cersei's character than I am. I felt I had to really fight to get some sort of understanding for her ridiculous actions. She seemed written more like Ramsey, but just "crazy entitled bitch". I didn't get any of the subtly about being used as a pawn - although accurate, I don't see how that drives her character except where relating to her being remarried ( and fighting against her kids being used the same way ). Cersei at her best is in her conversation with Ned -where she admits the incest, and Ned tells her to get out of town ( and alternately the scene with Robert in the show ). But once we are past that, she is just insane harpy - GRRM just didn't do a good job IMO. Oh, she is crazy. That's my point. She's someone who's had no agency her entire life, and it's made her insane. I'm not forgiving, but the books don't ask me to forgive her. They're a bit cleverer than that. The revelation of how she got that way doesn't change the way she is. It's an easy and common trap in genre fiction.
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Sep 11, 2017 06:25
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Well the books gave us way more Cersei doing stupid poo poo because she sucks at being Tywin while Kevan tries to clean up his niece's mess. The show just skips all that, does her walk of shame and then suddenly she becomes invincible.
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Sep 11, 2017 07:58
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Which is a shame, because paranoid Cersei digging her own grave is one of the better parts of Book 4.
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Sep 11, 2017 08:13
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Which one is that? The Yunkai army. It changes general daily for maximum dumb. One is a Nurgle version of Jabba the Hutt. Another is a girl in gold armor and erotic inlays that goes around carried on a shield. One who is tiny and thus breeds his slave soldiers to be above seven feet tall... and one who is just a big guy with a red beard and a brutal, evil disposition because GRRM was already in talks with HBO for tv rights and stopped caring entirely.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:13
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Seven-foot tall soldiers on stilts, don't forget.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:27
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GannerOne posted:I agree... Stannis was great. All those great scenes in which Stannis lecture Davos on stuff really caught the character I think. If your issue is with how Stannis was written I'll agree but the actual performance was great and if given better stuff to work with he'd have killed it even more.
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Sep 11, 2017 20:07
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NihilCredo posted:Seven-foot tall soldiers on stilts, don't forget. Haha, what? Now I need to read on.
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Sep 12, 2017 00:28
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Sephyr posted:The Yunkai army. It changes general daily for maximum dumb. One is a Nurgle version of Jabba the Hutt. Another is a girl in gold armor and erotic inlays that goes around carried on a shield. One who is tiny and thus breeds his slave soldiers to be above seven feet tall... and one who is just a big guy with a red beard and a brutal, evil disposition because GRRM was already in talks with HBO for tv rights and stopped caring entirely. The entire Slavers Bay culture is hosed up and way to over the top evil and incompetent to actually make them scary. Ginette Reno posted:If your issue is with how Stannis was written I'll agree but the actual performance was great and if given better stuff to work with he'd have killed it even more. I feel Stannis was acted fine, but the writers pretty much turned him into the "Evil Uncle" rather than just a dude who min-maxed his Charisma stat to 0.
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Sep 12, 2017 02:23
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NihilCredo posted:Seven-foot tall soldiers on stilts, don't forget. Nooo! gently caress you so much for reminding me. You monster. Times like this, I wish I drank so I could kill my neurons and forget.
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Sep 12, 2017 04:56
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It would make sense that a guy who came from TV writing would flanderise his series. It starts out, essentially, as a fantasy story where nobody knows they're in a fantasy story, and just vies for regular power. It's just a world with real consequences. It rapidly turns into something self consciously dark and brutal.
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Sep 12, 2017 08:05
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Sephyr posted:The Yunkai army. It changes general daily for maximum dumb. One is a Nurgle version of Jabba the Hutt. Another is a girl in gold armor and erotic inlays that goes around carried on a shield. One who is tiny and thus breeds his slave soldiers to be above seven feet tall... and one who is just a big guy with a red beard and a brutal, evil disposition because GRRM was already in talks with HBO for tv rights and stopped caring entirely. I had completely forgotten about the carnie army. Small wonder the book is taking so long, GURM has to write the background of all those characters and their lieutenants and at least one foot soldier from each constituent army before he gets on with the Mereenese knot.
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Sep 12, 2017 13:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhXSzSOiC3E
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Sep 12, 2017 17:59
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ZearothK posted:I had completely forgotten about the carnie army. to be fair, writing that poo poo is probably way more fun
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Sep 12, 2017 22:09
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Ginette Reno posted:If your issue is with how Stannis was written I'll agree but the actual performance was great and if given better stuff to work with he'd have killed it even more. I think you misunderstood my comment. I liked TV Stannis.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:34
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kcroy posted:to be fair, writing that poo poo is probably way more fun 'What would some rich idiots with no idea how to actually fight and a bunch of slaves come up with?' All of them being loving awful is brilliant too. The only slaver army that's worth a poo poo is the unsullied and making them is some seriously hosed up stuff. Cut off their dicks, make them kill their dogs, make them buy and then kill a baby. And whatever else poo poo theycdid to make them have no fear. I kind of want to reread the books now because i've forgotten a lot of the details. I mainly just remember the poo poo the show hit on plus faegon and some other things from the end.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:42
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TK-42-1 posted:'What would some rich idiots with no idea how to actually fight and a bunch of slaves come up with?' Sadly we know the answer from that from history, and it's way less entertaining. They hire mercenary armies stiffened by small cadres of elite national forces bound to them by ethnicity/family. Meereen is a mess. It's a waste.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:52
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