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I want to be able to make progress when the game is closed. I want to take my time with the game, if I leave for a week I don't want it to be broken. I want to see multiple systems or currencies that are all useful, often towards different but complimentary goals. I don't want to have to spam click (basically ever) after minute 10. I want there to be some goal that I'm always clearly working towards. Mine defense and Realm grinder are often held up as good examples of what to do, both have paradigm shifts, generally clear goals & give a sense of progression through those two things.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:57
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Morpheus posted:Just curious, what kinds of elements do you guys look for in an idle/clicker/incremental game? What separates the wheat from the chaff? A good idle game should be like Disgaea, you need to feel like you are breaking the game. An idle game starting out pretty normal with sane numbers for the first week or so of play and suddenly you can combine multiple systems and you shoot into the millions from of something from struggling to get 1,000 and the next week you have 1e15 is great. The big numbers should be the reward, and they need to not just be well it's just as easy to go from 1e12 to 1e13 as it is from 1e122 to 1e123 so instead the counter is just the exponent. (Swarm sim basically ends up doing this late game, which is okay for end game honestly). I want to feel like I progress when I'm active but not by clicking but by buying stuff. I also want to be getting a bunch of stuff to get over the next wall overnight. It should start out that being active for the first few hours is important and becomes less important outside of certain walls. Maybe have weekly goals if you want to gate it. Idle games make good MMO substitutes they can itch that grind itch without needing you to actually play, your grind needs to feel like you are going somewhere, but at the same time if I had 80 hours of free time a week I'd be playing an MMO, if I could log in every day I'd play an MMO. I really loved Trimps until I caught up to all the content and I felt some of the additions at the time automated it way too much and removed what made it interesting. I like having stuff to do. Trimps is slow to start, and a grind, but after you get over the initial grind it starts to shine with adding tons of new mechanics while automating the old ones. You slowly start playing a game that is completely different than the one you started playing. Which back to the MMO comparison is much like progressing into raiding, again scratching a similar itch. Lots of Idle games have way too little content right now and causing them to just not catch on. Once you get through the content and hit "post game" you either grind and new content is way too easy, or you stop and maybe check back in in a few months. The devs being active daily in chat are great but they all tend to die out as flavor of the week / month. If you are serious about putting out a new Idle game give it some end game content, but something you can turn into mid game content. Say it has an RPG theme, add some hard content next you add something beyond that for the hardcore players, just as they start getting through that you release another wall while releasing some new mechanic but making it unlock at some point that will make the previous wall more manageable. Not removing walls is another mistake where people look at a game and see it will take them 6 months to get to any of the new content people are hyped about in the thread and just not bother starting. Basically look at what a good MMO does and try and replicate that. Also gently caress clicking, everyone has an autoclicker it's not fun, or engaging. Don't make me "cheat" to play your game. Complex systems where I spent hours figuring out where to put points what gear to put on what gems, these are all good systems I can think about them while I do something else then test them out. Maybe I wont know if a build is better than my previous one for several hours to let RNG play out. pixaal fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 17:42
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GrossMurpel posted:Incidentally, is there any accessible version of the game anywhere since I missed it the first time around? I'll probably do another round of testing before I release it, but I don't when exactly. Monitoring forums and responding to questions/comments/complaints is actually very taxing and I don't have the time or energy for it right now.
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Sep 7, 2017 04:50
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Morpheus posted:Just curious, what kinds of elements do you guys look for in an idle/clicker/incremental game? What separates the wheat from the chaff? Paradigm shifts! (Mine defense i am looking at you, good job buddy) Multiple currencies (Realm Grinder best in class) Tone down the meme's and nerd culture stuff, like Kittens game. Why the gently caress are the workers called kittens and eat catnip but the rest of the game simulates a normal sci-fi society as we know it from various movies? Having multiple "builds" or paths to success and in general a decent amount of complexity, e.g. Mine Defense, Realm Grinder, Idle Mage, Sword Fight. Literal skinners boxes like AdCap are so intensely boring and pointless.
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Sep 7, 2017 08:21
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The best of them have this weird sort of Metroidvania thing where "paths" you discovered ages ago suddenly become useful.
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Sep 7, 2017 14:29
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Ineptitude posted:Paradigm shifts! (Mine defense i am looking at you, good job buddy) Yeah pretty much all this. Edit: I find the kittens game thing weird in this quote because it's super harmless, but ultimately who cares. So that one doesn't bother me much but the rest of the post is 100% my view as well. Lazy Kings is a game I think caught a really interesting niche, in that it's all basically entirely about trading and juggling currencies. I really enjoyed it even though parts of it felt really weirdly done. Falcon2001 fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 14:46
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That said, do take lessons from Kittens Game: glacial pace of play combined with painfully low caps on resources is loving awful. Unless there's a drat good reason for it I would probably say that there shouldn't be storage caps at all, and if there are, introduce the ability to automate improving them early.
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Sep 7, 2017 16:13
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I'm dumb. Not even sure why I continued playing.
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Sep 7, 2017 17:31
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Ineptitude posted:Tone down the meme's and nerd culture stuff, like Kittens game. Why the gently caress are the workers called kittens and eat catnip but the rest of the game simulates a normal sci-fi society as we know it from various movies? 
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Sep 7, 2017 20:12
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Ineptitude posted:Tone down the meme's and nerd culture stuff, like Kittens game. Why the gently caress are the workers called kittens and eat catnip but the rest of the game simulates a normal sci-fi society as we know it from various movies? Wrong but otherwise good post.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:14
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Kyrosiris posted:That said, do take lessons from Kittens Game: glacial pace of play combined with painfully low caps on resources is loving awful. The big issue with Kittens Game is that it's paced like an idle game but isn't really one. The game is clearly designed for active play through and through and even the automation options you can unlock later on are woefully inefficient compared to simply managing your resources yourself. But because everything moves so slowly it's hard to really feel like you're progressing as you spend all your time fiddling with all the resource management. That said, the game improves significantly with an autoclicker of some kind that allows you to actually focus on big-picture macro decisions that impact the growth of your arbitrary numbers. Nobody should have to suffer the hassle of mass clicking craft all beams/slabs/steel/alloys/concrete/etc etc etc again and again and again.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:08
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Trimps has the same issue (but AutoTrimps existing just means the right solution is to third-party automate it) ...as does Cookie Clicker, honestly, and at a more basic level. Golden Cookies (and magic spells) are so good that even turning on the Golden Switch and having full Wrinklers just can't compare. And there are no other alternatives. Sorry, orteil 
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Sep 7, 2017 21:10
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Trimps has the same issue (but AutoTrimps existing just means the right solution is to third-party automate it) With the current updates, going without Golden Cookies is totally viable now and relatively competitive, I think.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:33
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Xelkelvos posted:With the current updates, going without Golden Cookies is totally viable now and relatively competitive, I think. e: ooh, he did and also there's a new dragon aura that buffs you when you have an unclicked golden cookie on screen? Maybe. DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 21:38
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I'm still slowly working away at Idling To Rule The Gods. I've pushed up to 190k clones and I make 7 items per bar, but it seems like it's literally never enough. I decided to mix up my speedruns by doing a DRC, since that doesn't actually set me back 100% like the UBC would but would still mix it up a bit. It's going well so far. I literally just noticed that the whole "up to 3 hours of triple speed" also apparently applies to the skill auto-training as well as creations. This includes the 10 minutes of triple speed that you can get by trading in Ad Points, too. It... seems very helpful, but also pales in comparison to just how much training is needed to reduce the caps on the upper-tier skills. Even if I could keep it up 100% of the time, that's still something like 30 straight days of auto-training that'll be happening in drips and drabs over the course of much longer than that. I do notice that sometimes when I log in, it tells me that skills have been used automatically to reduce the caps, but it's not clear how the amount of reduction is calculated. Does anyone have any clues on the subject? I'm assuming it's low enough that the 9 hours of offline time needed to get 3 hours of triple speed isn't actually a net profit in terms of skill cap reduction, but I didn't see anything about it in hints or on the wiki when I looked.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:45
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Whatever else you may say about A Girl Adrift, it is charming. (Also it led me to learn about stargazy pies, which are horrible. What is wrong with British people)
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Sep 7, 2017 22:21
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Ignoranus posted:I do notice that sometimes when I log in, it tells me that skills have been used automatically to reduce the caps, but it's not clear how the amount of reduction is calculated. Does anyone have any clues on the subject? I'm assuming it's low enough that the 9 hours of offline time needed to get 3 hours of triple speed isn't actually a net profit in terms of skill cap reduction, but I didn't see anything about it in hints or on the wiki when I looked. I would do one UBC soon to unlock the crystal factory - you benefit from that as soon as you have a level 1 planet and enough clones to defeat the first ultimate being, which you do. Don't do any more until all your training is 1-cap, since that's by far the biggest speedup for UBC.
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Sep 7, 2017 23:31
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Sindai posted:Skill caps drop 1 every 3 uses in special fights, so 1 every 3 minutes in auto mode. It takes around 90 days real time for the last skill to reach 1 at that rate. That seems like a lot but if you look at the challenges and how many are repeatable 50 times I think it would take well over a year to "finish" the game anyway. Is the 1 every 3 minutes also the case while offline? I was thinking about doing a UBC soon but was thinking I'd delay until I had my 1-caps, but... yeah, I think that'll be my next target once I'm done with this DRC.
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Sep 7, 2017 23:36
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I'm sure it's slower while offline since the bonus applies to it, but I don't know by how much. UBC isn't that bad. One important thing to know is that when you finish you also get back all the GP you spent on one-time boosts, so you can just buy 99k clones in the later rebirths and put almost everything into building speed instead of creation speed and count. Between that and keeping your training caps and clone divider it actually goes significantly faster than your initial climb, and at the end you'll have ~350 gp dumped on you all at once. Sindai fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 00:06
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When's realm grinder gonna update again? I burned out on R88 when everything new stopped happening.
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Sep 8, 2017 00:21
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"Beta for Ascension 2 patch has begun! The testing phase will last for a while, after which the R100+ wall will be broken forever. There will also be a lot of content for various stage of the game, not limited to A2+. Stay tuned for more info  "According to the RG kong forums
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Sep 8, 2017 03:47
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Sindai posted:I'm sure it's slower while offline since the bonus applies to it, but I don't know by how much. Most of the challenges seem like grueling punishment but I'm getting to the point where its taking a long time to rebirth. Will I still retain pet growth, GP, and Might if I do a DRC or UBC? Will I still keep my unlocked pets?
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Sep 8, 2017 05:11
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DRC just resets your multipliers to 0, you keep and benefit from everything else. UBC is a little complicated. It removes or disables most sources of extra power (might, pet power, god power, crystal power) but you get everything back when you finish. You do keep your pets but can't benefit from their stats, but where we are that's only 1 or 2% anyway. For challenges in general this is the most detailed guide I've been able to find: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=701036862
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Sep 8, 2017 05:42
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Working on Dragon Challenge 6. All the requirements are trivial, except 150k buildings. ( i have 500k max mana and 420k mana/sec to give a perspective) but only 120k buildings. I am following the build on musicfamily's not-a-wiki. Do i need Grand Balance at a higher tier than 3 to do this? All other spells are T6 (though Dragons Breath and Spiritual Surge are at 5 due to a lack of faction coins) EDIT: W400 probably takes care of the building quantity... Ineptitude fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 16:09
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Sindai posted:DRC just resets your multipliers to 0, you keep and benefit from everything else. Oh, awesome! I forgot about Steam community guides as a source for info on this game. That is definitely a very clear guide, thanks.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:06
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Ineptitude posted:Working on Dragon Challenge 6. All the requirements are trivial, except 150k buildings. ( i have 500k max mana and 420k mana/sec to give a perspective) but only 120k buildings. Yeah, the buildings aren't as hard a barrier as you think they are. When I did it, I just occasionally bought buildings and increased the numbers, and got there soon enough thanks to hidden multipliers for building counts.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:04
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DC3 changes things dramatically when it kicks in, considering the time it takes to unlock it. I'm just waiting on tier 5 SS and I can move on from this long reincarnation.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:20
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I just finished DC2 today, decided I'll kill a few birds with one stone and just spend like two weeks on R54 getting DC3 and a bunch of spell tiers that I sorely need.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:47
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Twitch posted:I just finished DC2 today, decided I'll kill a few birds with one stone and just spend like two weeks on R54 getting DC3 and a bunch of spell tiers that I sorely need. Yeah, when you pause for DC3, keep pausing until you've gotten all the spells usable by faceless/dragon up to tier 6.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:52
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Oh, I might do that too, I'm on R55. Any particular build tips?
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Sep 9, 2017 13:08
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Literally any Faceless/Dragon build will do, once you fulfill the 5500 excavations.
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Sep 9, 2017 13:28
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For offline tiering, the main thing is making sure you've got enough mana regen for full offline "uptime" of your spells. So basically just grab whatever you can, druid heritage included, that improves your no-spells-running mana regen. Then just set yourself with everything except Tax Collection autocasting at tier 1 (not sure if higher tiers count as extra spells in the calc, but it's not like you're doing this for production anyway), go offline, and check back in a while to confirm that everything has gotten as much activity time as you expected it to. Spiritual Surge's expensive rear end is a good barometer - if anything's gonna get less than full uptime, it's SS. Once you've got that set up and going, go offline for the rest of the time needed for the challenge and/or tier 6 (whichever comes second). Or you can stay online, but there's no real point to doing so.
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Sep 9, 2017 14:44
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Yeah you want to keep your spells at tier 1 for offline spell time.
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Sep 9, 2017 16:20
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Okay, thanks.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:54
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I stayed online through DC3 for the spell cataclysm trophy.  Breezed through to R60 in like a half hour per reincarnation past R55. Even faster once the Reincarnation power that dumps extra Faction Coins of your bloodline kicked in. Now for another long wait to get Undead Lineage 15!
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Sep 9, 2017 18:22
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I have it running during the day, at least while I build up the mana production I need. I'm losing a couple hours of SS and DB every night still. Also I like looking at the numbers and clicking on stuff.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:46
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Sage Grimm posted:I stayed online through DC3 for the spell cataclysm trophy. Don't wait all the way to UL15; it's not necessary to reach Merc Research, and it goes super quick once you have that. I've got UL13 and I'm getting there just fine, I can't imagine waiting that long for 15.
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Sep 9, 2017 21:47
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I think as it stands now, getting UL15 (even without spending extra time tiering up Night Time to make UL15 meaningfully useful) and grinding through the last few Rs with it, takes more time than grinding through the last few Rs without UL15. Yeah, the grind portion itself is faster with UL15, but the total time is slower because UL15 takes so long to unlock before merc research, that it more than makes up the difference and you end up worse off for it.
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Sep 10, 2017 01:34
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Noted, will curb my run for something less intense.
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Sep 10, 2017 01:48
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I've been playing Trimps for a while, and I'm just about to break the zone 180 barrier for the first time. I have about 50m helium. What's my best course of action? 1) Keep running Nom for helium/hr (I get about 600-650k) until I can do #2 or #3 more easily 2) Push into Corruption for Masteries 3) Do a max-tox run and then spending my accrued 300ish bones. I have all the exotic imp-orts. 4) Do the Watch challenge that unlocks at 180? Max tox, as my understanding goes, involves running the Toxicity challenge, but from every zone from 60 to challenge completion, letting Toxicity stack up to 1500 before finishing to get roughly double the helium, then tripling that when the challenge ends. This seems like it would take a few days -- I haven't done the math, but it would boost the portal value up to something around 6 million helium, and I'd be able to do it 3 (maybe 4) times for a pretty big boost. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 17:25
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