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ComfyPants
Mar 20, 2002

How about we cut out a lot of buggy content, then there won't be as many bugs?
Not as many bugs? Brilliant!
Brilliant!
https://i.imgur.com/FdYtopt.gifv

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Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

boviscopophobic posted:

scope reduction

boviscopophobic posted:

scope reduction

boviscopophobic posted:

scope reduction


3.0 was always just a pipeline patch.

Hobold
Jan 10, 2012


I love my Cutlass
I love big stompy mechs
I love my HOTAS
I love to salvage wrecks
I love Star Citizen, and all it's craziness
GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA
College Slice

Warhawk109 posted:

I'm sure the refunds have nothing to do with it.

Of course they don't. They record that poo poo a day in advance remember?

They were already planning this 'soft scope reduction' poo poo a week ago. The refunds likely have them even more freaked out, especially if this doesn't go over well.

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Basically it's going to be an evocati patch without render to texture, or UI kiosks. Chris is going to announce it at Citizencon and backers are going to jerk each other off while buying the new baby carrier concept. Meanwhile, the game is still broken and is no closer to coming out. But Citizencon is saved, and that's the most important thing!
:thunk:

Hobold
Jan 10, 2012


I love my Cutlass
I love big stompy mechs
I love my HOTAS
I love to salvage wrecks
I love Star Citizen, and all it's craziness
GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA
College Slice
They're most likely going to roll out the 'planet roaming' game mode from a menu, with nothing else, like they demo'd at gamescon.

Tokamak posted:

Basically it's going to be an evocati patch without render to texture, or UI kiosks. Chris is going to announce it at Citizencon and backers are going to jerk each other off while buying the new baby carrier concept. Meanwhile, the game is still broken and is no closer to coming out. But Citizencon is saved, and that's the most important thing!
:thunk:

This is pretty much spot on what I expect them to do. Anything to try and save face, make it look like they're actually pushing content to evocati, and try to erase the fact they've not put out anything meaningful for what, over a year now?

StarbloodKiss
Feb 3, 2016

Why is the entire cargo hold full with crates of Krogan Krackers?
With how much flak Chris Roberts gets and the money they have, they might just rent an island for all their citizens to call home and they can all drink the koolaid together. Chris will deliver, believe in Chris, as the mantra goes.

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:

boviscopophobic posted:

Must-fix issues reduced by 50 through a combination of bugfixing and scope reduction for the Evocati release.




"So as we talked about last week, we've tightened the focus of our first test plan for the Evocati, which will be traversing and experiencing the expanse of the new universe and all that entails. Then, while we're getting larger test support, we'll continue to polish and bugfix more features, push them out for more testing and so on and so forth, until release." -- Eric Kieron Davis

I know someone suggested they would do this to try and mitigate some of the refund cascade...but god drat, to see such a blatant display, it's something else.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

This is a very funny looking burndown chart.

lazorexplosion
Mar 19, 2016

Reduced scope, well hey, 3.0 is only meant to be a small patch, more of a 2.7 if anything.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

SomethingJones posted:


I'm glad of the gaming websites that took a bite out of it, but in the end they all ran a piece of Swofford PR because in the end that's all they really know how to do - run loving releases from marketing agencies.

It's notable that they're eager beavers jumping on the bad news bandwagon. I would expect that the sites that aren't too shilly would quite happily rip into CiG, especially if the story is via an 'innocent' third party.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,
Real talk for a minute, what evidence do we actually have that they reduced scope? This has been a weird day and some of you are going full tinfoil shitizen here...

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

his nibs posted:

It's notable that they're eager beavers jumping on the bad news bandwagon. I would expect that the sites that aren't too shilly would quite happily rip into CiG, especially if the story is via an 'innocent' third party.

It was a big deal that PCGamer was even willing to report on the story at all, given their history of one-sided star-citizen cheerleading.

Unfortunately, they were forced to retract the article, same as the others, so ultimately they were punished for going "off message." It gives the "trolls and haters just slinging FUD" narrative a more viable rhetorical position. IMO when you add it all up, much as you try to dress it down, this is actually good for Star Citizen.

Toops fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Sep 15, 2017

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


when does coutts and co become owner of star citizen

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Toops posted:

Real talk for a minute, what evidence do we actually have that they reduced scope? This has been a weird day and some of you are going full tinfoil shitizen here...

Watch Burndown. Even the redditors are pointing it out.

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

Toops posted:

Real talk for a minute, what evidence do we actually have that they reduced scope? This has been a weird day and some of you are going full tinfoil shitizen here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhywXu8vsuM&t=503s

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

Toops posted:

It was a big deal that PCGamer was even willing to report on the story at all, given their history of one-sided star-citizen cheerleading.

Unfortunately, they were forced to retract the article, same as the others, so ultimately they were punished for going "off message." It gives the "trolls and haters just slinging FUD" narrative a more viable rhetorical position. IMO when you add it all up, much as you try to dress it down, this is actually good for Star Citizen.

Sure, I get that it entrenches positions, but the bigger story I would argue is that CiG are giving refunds, and these articles merely confirm that. If people were in any doubt about the possibility of getting refunds before, then they're not now. While the 'fakeness' of the amount will send a few Citizens all :smuggo:, I can't see how stories like this are good for CiG and the Star Citizen brand

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Tokamak posted:

Watch Burndown. Even the redditors are pointing it out.

I'd be damned if I'm trudging through that waste dump...


Thanks for the link you've saved me several units of sanity.

So they moved a bunch of bugs from sev2 to sev3 so they drop off the chart, and focus their bug fixing efforts on core components. Good plan so far. What Erin doesn't seem to realize is the minute they release this thing to Evocati, they're gonna be innundated with a river of new defects, which will just be thrown onto the pile of superficially de-prioritized bugs. It doesn't change anything about release timeline.

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

his nibs posted:

Sure, I get that it entrenches positions, but the bigger story I would argue is that CiG are giving refunds, and these articles merely confirm that. If people were in any doubt about the possibility of getting refunds before, then they're not now. While the 'fakeness' of the amount will send a few Citizens all :smuggo:, I can't see how stories like this are good for CiG and the Star Citizen brand

I don't think you're seeing both sides. The same naiive fence-sitters you're referring to have now witnessed open troll warfare against CIG first-hand, with an ovbious agenda to take CIG down. It gives strength and evidence that people are actively trying to sabotage the project.

My personal feeling is that this situation, fake or not, is just gross and negative, and wraps the whole project in a green-yellow fart cloud. Too much confusion, too much anger on both sides. I mean why would anyone want to be a part of this?

tuo
Jun 17, 2016


So basically: reduce it to traveling around like before with a couple of new options to go to, and cut out the stuff that makes a gameplay loop, so we can release something. Then, work on a single part of the gameplay loop at a time, fix the bugs, and add it.

Ain't that exactly what they wanted to do when they said "monthly patches from now on"? Having a solid, working foundation to add content to? So they now cut 3.0 down even more to arrive at something that is releasable, knowing that important stuff is not in it. And do I get this right, this is only for Evocati. So the current build is so hosed up, you can't even release it to a closed testing group that should be used to getting broken poo poo.

Somehow, I'd actually want to play the current 3.0 build, simply to witness how hosed up it really is.

During that Erin speech, I hoped he would include "you guys simply don't understand game development" at one point or another.

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003

hmmm all according to plan

Only registered members can see post attachments!

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help
I still think no 3.0 to their backers (PTU or PU) till next year. Maybe they'll announce a subscriber-only PTU opt-in in December and that would be for whatever hacked version of 3.0 Avocados will have then.

They want to give their avocados a work-in-progress 3.0 reduced focused in scope, as they should have been doing all along if they had anything for 3.0 (as they have been claiming) since it's a loving alpha and avocados are their first serious QA tier, with NDAs too, outside their internal testing which of course is poo poo.
And they will be iterating upon that with releases to Avocados, probably a few till CitCon, but I doubt PTU is going to see any of that.

I mean, this could backfire.The Avocados are essentially backers, that are doing voluntary alpha testing. They are "invested" way too much on this project, probably having put big sums of money into it to. They could get hit with the turd that is 3.0 and finally snap and go for a refund. It's not out of the sphere of logic.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

Toops posted:

I don't think you're seeing both sides. The same naiive fence-sitters you're referring to have now witnessed open troll warfare against CIG first-hand, with an ovbious agenda to take CIG down. It gives strength and evidence that people are actively trying to sabotage the project.

My personal feeling is that this situation, fake or not, is just gross and negative, and wraps the whole project in a green-yellow fart cloud. Too much confusion, too much anger on both sides. I mean why would anyone want to be a part of this?

That's fair enough, but it doesn't make Star Citizen any less janky and unfinished. Fence-sitters might see a gross mess of a situation, as you say, but IMO I don't see them suddenly starting to defend CiG because trolls :argh: (if that's what you were inferring). They may however, see the opportunity to get out of the project.

But what do I know.

Mu77ley
Oct 14, 2016

Awesome! posted:

do we have any examples of shoes she has designed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B0wm-K9eUE

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

AbstractNapper posted:

I mean, this could backfire.The Avocados are essentially backers, that are doing voluntary alpha testing. They are "invested" way too much on this project, probably having put big sums of money into it to. They could get hit with the turd that is 3.0 and finally snap and go for a refund. It's not out of the sphere of logic.

Will you be able to fly around on the moons during this interim 3.0 patch? Yes. Then all is forgiven. That's basically what the backers want to do more than anything.

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

Tokamak posted:

Will you be able to fly around on the moons during this interim 3.0 patch? Yes. Then all is forgiven. That's basically what the backers want to do more than anything.

Well sure. And maybe that first build will offer just that (I'd wager it will be awfully broken and disappointing in that regard).

However, from personal experience, having reported bugs months if not years ago and seeing them yet again going unfixed in the latest build stings quite a bit. And this is worsened by the fact that Evocati are not professionals in QA. They don't easily distinguish among show-stoppers, mid and low priority bugs or among essential, quality-of-life and nice-to-have fixes.

The years do go by and this project is barely improving or progresses towards a fun game.

Oh, and also. This year the treatment to Avocados from CIG has been quite something. Supposedly, two magazines got to play a build of 3.0 that the Avocados didn't get to test (and it was allegedly a richer 3.0 than the one they are getting). And at GamesCom they were once again skipped for the demo build that the crowd got to experience.

AbstractNapper fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Sep 15, 2017

AlmightyPants
Mar 14, 2001

King of Scheduling
Pillbug

HycoCam posted:

Time to stop all this Star Citizen talk and get back to what the thread is about : Pumpkin Spice Pizza!

Every place in the USA that is not New York needs to stop making pizza. You are all bad at it. Pumpkin spice does not belong on pizza. Neither does pineapple. If you can't make a slice that's good enough without piling gimmicky poo poo onto it, you shouldn't be making pizza. It's loving disgusting. Not all toppings are bad, but for gently caress's sake, you don't see people cramming random fruits and vegetables into other food items, stop doing it to pizza!

Trilobite
Aug 15, 2001

Toops posted:

I don't think you're seeing both sides. The same naiive fence-sitters you're referring to have now witnessed open troll warfare against CIG first-hand, with an ovbious agenda to take CIG down. It gives strength and evidence that people are actively trying to sabotage the project.

My personal feeling is that this situation, fake or not, is just gross and negative, and wraps the whole project in a green-yellow fart cloud. Too much confusion, too much anger on both sides. I mean why would anyone want to be a part of this?
Yeah, that's a good point. Refund stories can be heartwarming, and they can be fun, but just hearing "CIG is giving out refunds" doesn't actually have much impact on anyone other than giving them something dumb to argue about.

The thing that still does the most damage to Star Citizen as a project is showing someone the game itself. Ten minutes of watching someone play it will push anyone halfway sane right off the fence and squarely into "Why would anyone want to be a part of this?" territory, just because it's so loving devoid of any interesting features. They can make it look pretty in a video, they can recite hours and hours of wonderfully inspiring promises, they can boast about all the money they've made and all the money they're going to keep making, but their actual product as it exists right now is so unmistakably bad that a normal person's wallet practically welds itself shut in an instant.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005

I'd argue that the vast majority of backers bought some package and promptly forgot about it. The people posting here, Reddit, spectrum, etc are just a minority. For that majority, seeing news that indicates some people are unhappy with the progress makes them aware and that they can choose to get their money back.

There are also people who tried to get a refund in the past and were denied. They may have just written it off and walked away. Now they know a refund is possible.

Gradis
Feb 27, 2016

GAPE APE

D_Smart posted:

Yeah well we're still investigating, even though it had nothing to do with Goons. He was on our Discord earlier today, and we've figured out his Twitter, forum, RSI account handles. I also have his email address.

By morning, I will know what he had for dinner.

thy warlord doth not sleep, doth not eat, until a thats him in the wheelchair is presented.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Quavers posted:

Today's /r/StarCitizen total meltdown in one image:




Citizens doubting the project will definitely not get the idea of a refund in their heads now :doh:

:gary:

This will be a golden age when we look back.

TheLastRoboKy
May 2, 2009

Finishing the game with everyone else's continues
Considering Sandi has personally emailed someone because of his posts here it would hardly shock me if they went after the dude who posted the refund (if it's true and eyyyy why not) and he's bugging out cause why deal with that poo poo?

phosdex posted:

I'd argue that the vast majority of backers bought some package and promptly forgot about it. The people posting here, Reddit, spectrum, etc are just a minority. For that majority, seeing news that indicates some people are unhappy with the progress makes them aware and that they can choose to get their money back.

There are also people who tried to get a refund in the past and were denied. They may have just written it off and walked away. Now they know a refund is possible.

I have a friend and fellow SA poster who pledged on kickstarter while drunk. Might be time to just hassle them out for a tiny 60 buck refund I reckon.

Gradis
Feb 27, 2016

GAPE APE

AlmightyPants posted:

Every place in the USA that is not New York needs to stop making pizza. You are all bad at it. Pumpkin spice does not belong on pizza. Neither does pineapple. If you can't make a slice that's good enough without piling gimmicky poo poo onto it, you shouldn't be making pizza. It's loving disgusting. Not all toppings are bad, but for gently caress's sake, you don't see people cramming random fruits and vegetables into other food items, stop doing it to pizza!

this meltdown should be carved in stone


e: taxxe

Gradis fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Sep 15, 2017

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer


toanoradian
May 31, 2011


The happiest waffligator
No, I genuinely do not get it, is the 45k refund a fact or fiction? Or is it still in that nebulous phase of "he said she said"? But, even if the 45k refunds are fake, is the 'refund cascade' real?

kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001

phosdex posted:

I'd argue that the vast majority of backers bought some package and promptly forgot about it. The people posting here, Reddit, spectrum, etc are just a minority. For that majority, seeing news that indicates some people are unhappy with the progress makes them aware and that they can choose to get their money back.

Divinity: Original Sin 2 released today and I had no idea and I back that. They sent me e-mails I never read and I didn't see much on games media. If thing turned out different and Larian went full Star Citizen it would be a complete surprise and shock. For many Citizens the refund news is probably the first news they have heard about Star Citizen in years.

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009

It's a lovely morning in the void and you are a horrible lady-in-waiting.



don't ask how i know

Dinosaur Gum

toanoradian posted:

No, I genuinely do not get it, is the 45k refund a fact or fiction? Or is it still in that nebulous phase of "he said she said"? But, even if the 45k refunds are fake, is the 'refund cascade' real?

He said she said, although the dude is in "faked it until he proves otherwise" territory right now. The cascade probably isn't a cascade but there's been an uptick in people refunding and reporting it on the subreddit; beyond that it's not like cig updates the tracker with negative numbers so who knows what the actual refund volume looks like.

Dark Off
Aug 14, 2015




toanoradian posted:

No, I genuinely do not get it, is the 45k refund a fact or fiction? Or is it still in that nebulous phase of "he said she said"? But, even if the 45k refunds are fake, is the 'refund cascade' real?

theres several options here all hilarious.

a) the refund is fake
a1) CIG sues the guy for libel since they claimed to know his ID
a2) CIG lied about the ID'ing the refunder

b) the refund is real 45 000 dollars down the drain and CIG lied about the sum. The guy that got refund could show bank transaction nailing CIG for lying.

c) everyone suddenly realizes that they screwed up. CIG for stating lie, and fake refunder for damaging CIG more than helping em.
everyone quietly sweeps the whole issue under the rug. The whole thing was just drat big self own by shitizens.

I think c is the case here.
refund cascade is real and it got started from shitizen trying to proof that star citizen refunds were fake :laugh:
ofc it also gives em option to deny that refunds are happening because they are all fake, but who cares about that.
Its good thing that ppl can get their fake money out of the project without any hassle.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

toanoradian posted:

No, I genuinely do not get it, is the 45k refund a fact or fiction? Or is it still in that nebulous phase of "he said she said"? But, even if the 45k refunds are fake, is the 'refund cascade' real?

The simple explanation is that the refund was faked and I'd normally just leave it at that.

But I've changed my mind from fake to real and back about 10 times in last 24 hours. Not that it really matters that much considering the effect it's had.

The CIG denial could have been carefully worded and there really was a $45k refund, it wouldn't bother CIG at all to do that.

But there are some other odd things that have happened since with him coming onto discord and providing other information. But you can find holes in that too, a lot of it comes down to why he'd do this when if it's not true the whole thing falls apart when CIG denies it comprehensively.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Dark Off posted:

c) everyone suddenly realizes that they screwed up. CIG for stating lie, and fake refunder for damaging CIG more than helping em.

I never considered how the guy could be a fan of CIG while understanding the refund process well enough to fake it/not fake it, but yeah that's possible, incredibly dumb but possible. That would explain his discord attempt at backing the story up. I think this is the least likely scenario though.

Also CIG isn't going to sue anyone about this, "you said we gave you more money than we did" isn't really worth worrying about. The damage was caused by whales thinking larger whales were swimming away, it's going to be a complete bugger to try to explain that your whole company is built on faith and claim damages for heresy. To each reach that point you'd need to identify the right person to everyone's satisfaction, based on information you are going to freely acknowledge is at least partly fake.

AP fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Sep 15, 2017

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Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009

It's a lovely morning in the void and you are a horrible lady-in-waiting.



don't ask how i know

Dinosaur Gum
Yeah for what it's worth my current money is riding on "faked to try and make anyone who cheered for it look like an rear end" but it went further than he expected because actual journalists ran with it so he panicked and blew away his reddit account.

On the other hand I was also expecting him to jump into a hole and pull it in after him after the account deletion, but he showed up again so who knows for sure. Tomorrow is another day :munch:

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