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Krispy Kareem posted:Flanders was weirdly religious, but not so much that everyone couldn't immediately relate to him to that one family that seemed normal on the outside, but when you stayed over you found out they only watched Christian television and thought spices were indecent. I think Ned only became that religious when it was apparent that living next to Homer would drive anybody to move unless they were a complete doormat. Even the cool Ned of the first few seasons would get sick of Homer's poo poo after a while with all the thieving and stupidity. And Ned has been an interesting carciature: his religion is a front for some deep insecurity and emotional problems. The Hurricane episode shows that if he hits a limit then EVERYTHING comes loose and he flips out just as easily. And at the end, he's still just reset back to uptight. He will still run you over with his car (even if it's a Geo) if he's pissed enough. He's not the perfect neighbor, he's just wound so tightly that it takes a lot before he snaps. He's just as hosed up as the rest of the town.
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Sep 17, 2017 13:12
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There is the episode where Homer becomes Ned's friend, and Ned soon finds out he's even more annoying as a friend than as a mooching resentful neighbour, and seems quite content when Homer snaps back to disliking him at the end. It may not have aged well that Rod and Todd are strongly implied to be homosexual in future-based episodes. (and outright drag queens/trans in the comics)
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Sep 17, 2017 13:59
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bitterandtwisted posted:Homer steals Cable, which is wrong because Christianity is real and you will go to hell for that It was more that Lisa thought he would go to hell for stealing and eventually Homer had to choose between his family and his TV shows. But it still aged badly because Lisa's whole thing later became her being a Buddhist. Aside from the arcade game where she was apparently a hardcore nihilist. 
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Sep 17, 2017 15:35
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Stealing cable has aged extra badly given the modern equivalent, digital piracy, is something audiences are completely sick of hearing about and even artists mock, given the main anti-piracy crusaders tended to make themselves look like cartoon supervillains.
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Sep 17, 2017 15:50
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Guy Mann posted:It was more that Lisa thought he would go to hell for stealing and eventually Homer had to choose between his family and his TV shows. But it still aged badly because Lisa's whole thing later became her being a Buddhist. Aside from the arcade game where she was apparently a hardcore nihilist. Ah yes, Bart's aye carumba, Homer's annoyed grunt, Lisa's call for oblivion. Classical catchphrases No but seriously the Arcade game was made by a developer who did really strange things with it, like keep Groening's original vision that Marge was actually one of his life in hell rabbits and Smithers and Burns being common diamond burglars
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Sep 17, 2017 16:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUc4GkMN1qs Never Say Never Again Good guy vs bad guy playing video games lacks a certain gravitas when compared to playing chess or polker
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Sep 17, 2017 16:29
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I liked how Homer overtly wanted to have sex with Ned's wife. Like they make that joke a dozen times before they kill her.
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Sep 17, 2017 16:46
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Inescapable Duck posted:Stealing cable has aged extra badly given the modern equivalent, digital piracy, is something audiences are completely sick of hearing about and even artists mock, given the main anti-piracy crusaders tended to make themselves look like cartoon supervillains. Plus this makes the main point of the Poochie episode a bit more laughable: how are we supposed to give creative types a break when they run out of ideas when you're actively paying for the content outright as many people were starting to do in the '90s with the rise in cable subscriptions? I'm not going to rehash the problems in that episode (there's a whole thread on that elsewhere), but it's kinda funny to see TV types get pissy about being called out on creative laziness by employing the idea that nobody pays for their free TV so they should be grateful to get anything they get....meanwhile people were getting so sick of that they would rather pay out the nose to escape the dull boredom of that model. Plus, the idea that ripping a movie or a TV show was the same as stealing cars was pretty hilarious, especially in the frame of mind that the devaluation of media was already going ahead full steam ahead during the VHS to DVD switch near 2000: VHS tapes were massively overpriced and DVDs eventually became so cheap to produce that a lot of them dropped in price drastically. Anybody remember Deep Discount DVD and how easy it was to buy cheap discs legally and without sales tax? Kinda hard to scream piracy when you showcase how easy those discs devalued because companies wanted a quick turnaround on their investment. Why yes, I am old.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:04
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The joke of the cable episode of The Simpsons was what a wasteland cable television programming was back in the late 80s/early 90s and they were absolutely right. Yeah a network television show throwing shade at a competing platform is self-serving but it also made fun of the idea that stealing cable was OK and just the general way that television could be a disruptive presence in a family so it's hardly a hitpiece or a screed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVVBwWBwwc&t=52s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrmtOKfSnE e. The joke of Homer coming up with justifications for not paying for something he loves so much has actually gotten better because one of the big arguments people used to justify piracy was that they would pay if they were allowed to only pay for the channels they want instead of having to buy bundles of channels they don't watch for the one they do, and now that alacarte TV channels are finally a thing those people just come up with a new excuse and continue to not pay. Solice Kirsk posted:I liked how Homer overtly wanted to have sex with Ned's wife. Like they make that joke a dozen times before they kill her. Simpsons animators getting thirsty for Marge in the odd scene was always a weird thing too. Though apparently that's just something you had to deal with when outsourcing animation back in the day, if the King of the Hill animator's guide is any indication: 
Guy Mann has a new favorite as of 19:28 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 19:21
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Was there a wave of dentist molesting knocked out patients back in the 80s/90s? It's been a plot point in a few sitcoms.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:38
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Guy Mann posted:The joke of Homer coming up with justifications for not paying for something he loves so much has actually gotten better because one of the big arguments people used to justify piracy was that they would pay if they were allowed to only pay for the channels they want instead of having to buy bundles of channels they don't watch for the one they do, and now that alacarte TV channels are finally a thing those people just come up with a new excuse and continue to not pay. There's actually pretty decent evidence that the creation of paid online streaming services put a major dent in piracy
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Sep 17, 2017 19:45
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I never had a problem with the Flanders religious question. Mostly because growing up my own next door neighbors were the weird church-obsessed, annoyingly friendly type themselves. Like seriously, the mother of that household was literally maude flanders, complete with ugly pantsuits and big curly hair.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:48
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Gum posted:There's actually pretty decent evidence that the creation of paid online streaming services put a major dent in piracy Industries have a habit of intentionally making their products as obtuse as possible to use or even have access to at all, then pouting when people pirate them. Online streaming and DRM-free services like GOG show most pirates are actually perfectly willing to pay for things if the other side wasn't such stubborn dicks.
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Sep 17, 2017 19:53
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On the other hand, Game of Thrones is the most pirated piece of media in existence and HBO was the first and best about offering a standalone service without a cable subscription and no real restrictions on their programming library or accessing it on devices. 
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Sep 17, 2017 20:05
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Guy Mann posted:On the other hand, Game of Thrones is the most pirated piece of media in existence and HBO was the first and best about offering a standalone service without a cable subscription and no real restrictions on their programming library or accessing it on devices. Are there any statistics on what nations most of that piracy comes from though? Because if it's mostly people from nations where you can't watch it until long after it airs in the U.S., then I can kind of understand that.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:30
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To watch GoT in Australia, the minimum you'd pay per year is something like $200 for the first, then $100 every year after, provided you want it at approximately the same time as the US. It's pirated en masse and is probably the #1 most pirated show and a huge incentive for people to figure out how to torrent. I don't know a single person who watches it through legitimate channels, but it's hugely popular.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:54
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Gaunab posted:Was there a wave of dentist molesting knocked out patients back in the 80s/90s? It's been a plot point in a few sitcoms. There was a case in the late 70s/early 80s that got attention and joined the larger narrative of speaking out about sexual abuse from men in positions of authority, and in general. I recall a Golden Girls episode where this happens to Rose.
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Sep 17, 2017 22:44
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Guy Mann posted:It was more that Lisa thought he would go to hell for stealing and eventually Homer had to choose between his family and his TV shows. But it still aged badly because Lisa's whole thing later became her being a Buddhist. Aside from the arcade game where she was apparently a hardcore nihilist. I think that's a reference to the mini golf episode where she's using philosophy to help Bart become a better golfer. Flanders is a completely different character in that episode. He gets angry and petty, and at the end of the episode it's mentioned he used to be in a frat.
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Sep 17, 2017 23:10
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Guy Mann posted:The joke of the cable episode of The Simpsons was what a wasteland cable television programming was back in the late 80s/early 90s and they were absolutely right. Yeah a network television show throwing shade at a competing platform is self-serving but it also made fun of the idea that stealing cable was OK and just the general way that television could be a disruptive presence in a family so it's hardly a hitpiece or a screed. It's not outsourcing the animation that makes that a thing. I'd say animators are generally perverts but I don't think it's the animators who write a plot about Marge getting a boob-job or put her in Playboy.
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Sep 17, 2017 23:15
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well why not posted:To watch GoT in Australia, the minimum you'd pay per year is something like $200 for the first, then $100 every year after, provided you want it at approximately the same time as the US. Yeah, loving this. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but when discussing piracy, if your argument is "oh but it's so easy to access content legally and people still pirate, therefore people will always do it", it's important to note that even in (ostensibly civilised) countries like Australia, you have to deal with this bullshit. Even Netflix and it's predominant Australian competitor, Stan, have been hamstrung by the stranglehold that Murdoch has on entertainment in Australia, with shows that you'd take for granted being impossible or near-impossible to legally access. Incidentally, the fact that you're screwing Murdoch if you pirate GoT in Australia is reason enough for me to be completely fine with people who pirate in Australia.
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Sep 17, 2017 23:32
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Whitlam posted:Yeah, loving this. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but when discussing piracy, if your argument is "oh but it's so easy to access content legally and people still pirate, therefore people will always do it", it's important to note that even in (ostensibly civilised) countries like Australia, you have to deal with this bullshit. Even Netflix and it's predominant Australian competitor, Stan, have been hamstrung by the stranglehold that Murdoch has on entertainment in Australia, with shows that you'd take for granted being impossible or near-impossible to legally access. Hold the god drat presses. You're telling me that Netflix's Australian competitor is naned Stan? Who is Stan?!
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Sep 17, 2017 23:36
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Ariong posted:Hold the god drat presses. You're telling me that Netflix's Australian competitor is naned Stan? Who is Stan?! I was told it stood for Seven, Ten, ABC, Nine (our major channels) but I'm not sure if that's actually true or just retconned (like how Adidas totally stands for "all day I dream about sports" except it actually doesn't).
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Sep 17, 2017 23:43
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Adidas is short for Adolf Dassler who founded Adidas. His brother Rudolf founded Puma. Both of them were in the NSDAP(Nazis).
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Sep 17, 2017 23:58
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FreudianSlippers posted:Adidas is short for Adolf Dassler who founded Adidas. His brother Rudolf founded Puma. Both of them were in the NSDAP(Nazis). They weren't very good Nazis: quote:By the 1936 Summer Olympics, Adi Dassler drove from Bavaria on one of the world's first motorways to the Olympic village with a suitcase full of spikes and persuaded U.S. sprinter Jesse Owens to use them, the first sponsorship for an African American. Following Owens' haul of four gold medals, his success cemented the good reputation of Dassler shoes among the world's most famous sportsmen. Letters from around the world landed on the brothers' desks, and the trainers of other national teams were all interested in their shoes. Business boomed and the Dasslers were selling 200,000 pairs of shoes every year before World War II.
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Sep 18, 2017 00:02
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Gum posted:There's actually pretty decent evidence that the creation of paid online streaming services put a major dent in piracy Then you also have things like Youtube that probably exists in a gray area. When you're wanting to listen to from any extreme of obscure or popular song, the chances are you can find that someone has uploaded it to Youtube. Heck, there are songs on YT that I can't even find on something like Google Play to actually BUY, and it's all free and easy for the user. Sure, you still get some copyright takeddowns, but it seems like you can post all the 'best of' moments of a film or an entire movie and you don't even need to watch the originals to get on track. I wonder if Google/Youtube sort of gets away with it a bit more due to their power as Google, overall, to also be used as a media promotional tool by companies and how bad a negative reaction to trying to push something like DMCA might hurt their reps in the long run.
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Sep 18, 2017 00:37
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I don't want to excuse any Nazis, but I think that's just one of those things you did back then if you were an industrialist of any kind and wanted to still do business. Of course being indifferent to horrible Nazi crimes really isn't much better than being an ideological Nazi, though also that's much easier for us to say 80 years on.
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Sep 18, 2017 00:39
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Film highlights are probably fair use because they are not a replacement for the film itself and spliced up like that it's transformative. Like I don't think anyone is taking highlights as replacement for watching the film itself. If music is obscure enough to be unbuyable it's definitely too obscure for anyone to be bothering with DMCAs.
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Sep 18, 2017 00:40
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ReidRansom posted:I don't want to excuse any Nazis, but ... Probably best to stop right there I think.
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Sep 18, 2017 01:28
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TF2 HAT MINING RIG posted:It's not outsourcing the animation that makes that a thing. I'd say animators are generally perverts but I don't think it's the animators who write a plot about Marge getting a boob-job or put her in Playboy. I don't really see the problem with this one?
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Sep 18, 2017 01:53
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BiggerBoat posted:Probably best to stop right there I think. Ehh...... but fair point. I don't want to excuse any Nazis full stop
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Sep 18, 2017 02:21
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SEX BURRITO posted:I think that's a reference to the mini golf episode where she's using philosophy to help Bart become a better golfer. Also part of the reason Homer gets pissed off is that Ned has a basement bar where he has beer on tap.
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Sep 18, 2017 03:17
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Yeah, Ned Flanders' original gimmick was that he was the neighbor who had a somewhat better life than Homer did.
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Sep 18, 2017 03:20
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One thing that always annoys me is bully characters in shows where the main characters are ostensibly adults, because it's visiting a trope that just doesn't make sense in that age group. In a high-school situation, fine, but beyond that that poo poo does not fly at all. In situations like, say, Spongebob being bothered by Flats at Driving School (which I honestly don't mind as much as other situations because it had a funny payoff) or Leonard being threatened by his old bully in Big Bang Theory, it's ludicrous when they pretend that the character can't do anything because of being physically weak - when both people are over 18, Bullying goes from being dismissed as "Boys will be boys" to becoming Felony Assault with intent to harm. Spongebob's example is less annoying because while they contrive a reason that they won't help I think he calls the police, can't remember, but in Big Bang Theory it's like "Leonard... CALL THE POLICE ON THIS IDIOT! He is refusing to leave your apartment, and when you insisted he threatened you - that is at least a felony and misdeneanor right there." This isn't like when the apartment got robbed, here they have a suspect due to the nature of the crime. Calling a stronger adult is not weakness. Outside of prison, snitches to not get stitches, they get poo poo done!
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Sep 18, 2017 05:23
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Frasier had an episode with both boys dealing with their old high school bullies (one of whom was played by Dr Cox, which is hilariously jarring) who they've hired as plumbers. I think the former bully and Niles end up reconciling and settling things like mature adults while Frasier probably got his rear end kicked. (Or the other way around. Oddly enough, Niles was more eccentric day-to-day but usually showed common sense when pressed, while Frasier tended to become more irrational quickly)
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Sep 18, 2017 06:10
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Absurd Alhazred posted:They weren't very good Nazis: Considering Jesse Owens went on to say the nazis at the olympics treated him more respectfully than white Americans did when he returned home that actually probably makes them the most sympathetic nazis possible in context
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Sep 18, 2017 07:02
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Yeah, Ned Flanders' original gimmick was that he was the neighbor who had a somewhat better life than Homer did. Not "somewhat better", he was portrayed as the absolute perfect angelic family man with the perfect family and home that the people watching the show were supposed to be like "gently caress yeah I hate that guy" to relate to homer more. Honesty the show hosed Ned up when they made him conflicted and have any sort of backstory or nuance whatsoever
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Sep 18, 2017 07:09
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Choco1980 posted:Like seriously, the mother of that household was literally maude flanders, complete with ugly pantsuits and big curly hair. Hope she got that jaundice checked out.
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Sep 18, 2017 07:26
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Honestly the Flanders family and the Lovejoys are great examples of being "Good" in a christian sense turning people into terrible people - the Lovejoys are overly judgemental hypocrites with Helen being an utterly unlikable harpy, and even the Reverend thinks Flanders is an rear end in a top hat. Flanders is the kind of man at this point who is a (bad) christian first and a father second, if Rod or Todd ever did develop in a way that wasn't strictly adhering to heteronormativity Ned would totally make things worse.
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Sep 18, 2017 07:31
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IIRC, most future episodes have Ned pretty much ignoring Rod and Todd's development (and being thankful to others who do the same). Reverend Lovejoy had a limelight episode where he used to be idealistic and went out of his way to help people, until an overly needy and insecure Flanders drove him to apathy and cynicism. Now he just wants to be left alone with his trains.
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Sep 18, 2017 09:04
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TenCentFang posted:Industries have a habit of intentionally making their products as obtuse as possible to use or even have access to at all, then pouting when people pirate them. Online streaming and DRM-free services like GOG show most pirates are actually perfectly willing to pay for things if the other side wasn't such stubborn dicks. a lot of the activities that whiny baby millionaires would call "piracy" is exactly how a lot of culture that would otherwise have been lost and/or forgotten has been preserved and shared, so I'm all for it
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Sep 18, 2017 12:23
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