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Yeah, it sounds like a SRE who knows what he is doing is super valuable and in companies who recognize the role for what it is and hire the right person, will do everything to retain that person. We had a guy somewhat like this in a team I was in once, he did SRE and SDET work on top of developing features while smiling all the time and assisting other teams with their best practices. He elevated the performance of the team as a whole by 30 or 40 story points, while he himself only burned like 15. Then bad management happened and the team dissolved but that is another story (basically all the people with options left within three months)
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Sep 17, 2017 07:06
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Blinkz0rz posted:The flip side to all the cautionary posts is that SRE positions in reputable companies pay way more than the equivalent level SWE. All of the sources I've seen have SRE and SWE pay being essentially identical at Google.
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Sep 17, 2017 08:35
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Yeah companies that understand SRE as a distinct role that's as important as SWE roles, and have the resources and management competency to follow through on it will be good. Since Google started evangelizing the concept however, it's started to replace "DevOps" as a word used by lovely companies to dress up "pager monkey that reboots our lovely software and handles tickets." One of my co-workers said she once went to a SRE conference because she was interested in learning about how other companies did things, approached the typical SRE kind of problems, etc. It ended up just being two days of talks along the lines of "here's what someone told me Google does..." and she was like "... *whelp*"
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Sep 17, 2017 14:10
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Keetron posted:Yeah, it sounds like a SRE who knows what he is doing is super valuable and in companies who recognize the role for what it is and hire the right person, will do everything to retain that person. Becoming like this guy has been one of my personal goals. How do I get there? How do I, as a developer, get to a point where I'm *that* helpful to the company and to people around me? More specifically, what books can I read to get some solid knowhow on the world of SRE? (Or what learning paths in O'reilly Safari?)
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Sep 18, 2017 02:00
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b0lt posted:All of the sources I've seen have SRE and SWE pay being essentially identical at Google. Google did something...wrong??????
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Sep 18, 2017 03:16
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lifg posted:Becoming like this guy has been one of my personal goals. How do I get there? How do I, as a developer, get to a point where I'm *that* helpful to the company and to people around me? I think it was mostly his personality. He told me that as a kid, he read programming books for fun ("I brought a FORTRAN book to the camping site, without actually having a computer in the house") and he wanted to be an electrician so he "could build stuff and fix it" but his parents convinced him a CS masters would do that just as well. So having close to 40 years of problem solving personality will help you most. Enjoying solving little and big puzzles and overcoming challenges. In general, his outlook on life that everything can be learned and everything can be solved was inspiring. An error message will tell you what and where you need to be and almost all problems you have are already solved by someone else who then posted about it on the internet. He was being head hunted by amazon every 6 months, but he rather worked as a contractor so he could see different environments. For me, it was an eye-opening experience and made me a much better problem solver and developer. The outlook he has, everything can be solved, was the one piece missing from my personal puzzle to actual performance as I used to give up to fast in the past. Anyway, if you want to be like him, get a personality transplant or nurture the parts that are like him.
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Sep 18, 2017 05:09
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lifg posted:More specifically, what books can I read to get some solid knowhow on the world of SRE? (Or what learning paths in O'reilly Safari?) https://landing.google.com/sre/book/index.html
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Sep 18, 2017 07:46
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Keetron posted:He was being head hunted by amazon every 6 months
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Sep 18, 2017 08:14
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Keetron posted:Anyway, if you want to be like him, get a personality transplant or nurture the parts that are like him. One thing that may help re: personality transplant is to try to restructure the motivation behind what you work on. It's not "what is my assigned task" or even "what's the most important problem I can solve", it's more "what's the most important thing I can do to make the team more productive." Figure out what's slowing your team down, and work on that. Depending on the team, that might mean doing code reviews, doing code cleanup, working on design docs or other documentation, riding rear end on a vendor that's not providing information you need, helping to coordinate between your team and the teams you depend on, etc. This is moving towards more of a tech lead kind of position, not necessarily an SRE, but it can greatly multiply your impact, because sadly there just aren't very many people thinking along those lines. In short, try to be more of a force multiplier.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:34
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:One thing that may help re: personality transplant is to try to restructure the motivation behind what you work on. It's not "what is my assigned task" or even "what's the most important problem I can solve", it's more "what's the most important thing I can do to make the team more productive." Figure out what's slowing your team down, and work on that. Depending on the team, that might mean doing code reviews, doing code cleanup, working on design docs or other documentation, riding rear end on a vendor that's not providing information you need, helping to coordinate between your team and the teams you depend on, etc. This is moving towards more of a tech lead kind of position, not necessarily an SRE, but it can greatly multiply your impact, because sadly there just aren't very many people thinking along those lines. Addendum: The sad reality is that sometimes a force multiplier comes in the form of telling a member of your team that they need to shape up, even if it's your team lead. 
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Sep 18, 2017 17:38
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:One thing that may help re: personality transplant is to try to restructure the motivation behind what you work on. It's not "what is my assigned task" or even "what's the most important problem I can solve", it's more "what's the most important thing I can do to make the team more productive."
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Sep 18, 2017 18:02
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So another thought I had re: "What is SRE"? As a metaphor, think of Production as "your city". SREs are the: - Firefighters. - Building code inspectors and safety engineers. - Disaster preparedness coordinators. - Logistics and city planning experts. So yeah, they are obviously the first responders when something is on fire or a build collapses. However, if you live in a city where some part of it is constantly on fire and people regularly die in shoddily built buildings, something has gone terribly wrong. So beyond the pager carrying (and all the skill and heroics that entails), there's also: - Asking what we should learn from incidents to prevent the same mistakes from being repeated. - Working with partner eng teams to design systems that are resilient to routine failure. (i.e. - every idiot that sets his stove on fire doesn't become another Grenfell) - Educating other SREs and SWEs about best practices. - Determining when a "best practice" is so important it should be a "mandate" and then getting organizational support behind that. - Focusing on how to use resources-- CPU, bandwidth, memory, db quota, etc-- in most efficient way possible and get good performance at very large scale. - Realizing that human time and attention is the most expensive resource out of everything, and eliminating routine toil through automation whenever possible. Also, I guess in this metaphore, secops is LEO. Please don't take my avatar away.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:40
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Looking at non-frontend jobs these days, and I got to wondering: if Rails isn't the new back-end hotness these days, what do most people write their back-ends in now? I've moved on to either Clojure or Elixir (i.e. Phoenix) for back-ends and APIs in my personal projects, but those aren't as popular as I expected them to be. Are Python/Django and Java big players now? There's also Node, but...it's Node.
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Sep 18, 2017 19:16
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Pollyanna posted:Looking at non-frontend jobs these days, and I got to wondering: if Rails isn't the new back-end hotness these days, what do most people write their back-ends in now? I've moved on to either Clojure or Elixir (i.e. Phoenix) for back-ends and APIs in my personal projects, but those aren't as popular as I expected them to be. Are Python/Django and Java big players now? You could also look outside of websites. Huge world of development that has little to nothing to do with them.
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Sep 18, 2017 19:24
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Pollyanna posted:Looking at non-frontend jobs these days, and I got to wondering: if Rails isn't the new back-end hotness these days, what do most people write their back-ends in now? I've moved on to either Clojure or Elixir (i.e. Phoenix) for back-ends and APIs in my personal projects, but those aren't as popular as I expected them to be. Are Python/Django and Java big players now? Java and C# are still a thing and will be for awhile. DotNetCore is new and cool.
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Sep 18, 2017 19:33
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Join me in the world of ad-tech, the land of passably interesting technical problems poisoned by toxic, lovely environments and a complete of lack of care for anything but clicks, impressions, completions, and an impossible to keep up with list of buzzwords.
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Sep 18, 2017 19:42
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Pollyanna posted:Looking at non-frontend jobs these days, and I got to wondering: if Rails isn't the new back-end hotness these days, what do most people write their back-ends in now? I've moved on to either Clojure or Elixir (i.e. Phoenix) for back-ends and APIs in my personal projects, but those aren't as popular as I expected them to be. Are Python/Django and Java big players now? it's always been java and it always will be. maybe kotlin if you're lucky
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Sep 18, 2017 21:20
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Does "non front-end" mean strictly "back-end web dev API" type jobs or are we including data, infrastructure, services work, etc? Cause lol if you think it's "all Java"
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Sep 18, 2017 21:39
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They said "always Java" not "all Java". If you have to pick one programing language, and your only concern is that you need to be as employable as possible: Java for back-end, JavaScript for front-end. Picking just one language is silly, of course, but any time someone's thinking "fuuuuck why can't I get hired" they're going to start asking what's the best language/framework/specialization so they can get it on their resume. And it's not like the real answer of "have a good network and 5+ years of industry experience" is useful either.
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Sep 19, 2017 03:36
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quote:Javascript for the front-end. Just today the EFF told W3C to go pound sand over the DRM standard. 5 years from now all websites will have DRM for everything. Not just video, not just audio, but text, images, everything over the newly wide adopted http3 standard. quote:There is nothing wrong with your browser. Do not attempt to adjust the settings. We are now controlling the transmission. We control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand websites or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next decades we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the deepest inner mind to the outer limits.
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Sep 19, 2017 04:11
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Pollyanna posted:Looking at non-frontend jobs these days, and I got to wondering: if Rails isn't the new back-end hotness these days, what do most people write their back-ends in now? I've moved on to either Clojure or Elixir (i.e. Phoenix) for back-ends and APIs in my personal projects, but those aren't as popular as I expected them to be. Are Python/Django and Java big players now? As mentioned, Java is still popular. Go is gaining a lot of ground, for better or worse. There's still plenty of backend services written in Ruby and Python but are taking a less heavy-handed approach than Rails or Django: Sinatra, Flask, etc... My past few gigs used some mix of Go, Clojure, Java and Ruby. If you had to pick one language for helping land future jobs I'd go with Java or Python: lotta code out there in those languages and Python is still growing fast.
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Sep 19, 2017 05:01
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minato posted:I worked at a place that had a Developer Efficiency Team and it was amazing. Just a team dedicated to nothing but making other developers' lives easier. Speeding up compilations, removing dead code, adding documentation, linters, bug detectors, etc. Sooo much better than the traditional alternative: developers whining and complaining to each other until they realize there's a problem, then try to lobby to management for time to fix it themselves. This is really awesome
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Sep 19, 2017 14:03
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Skier posted:As mentioned, Java is still popular. Go is gaining a lot of ground, for better or worse. There's still plenty of backend services written in Ruby and Python but are taking a less heavy-handed approach than Rails or Django: Sinatra, Flask, etc... My past few gigs used some mix of Go, Clojure, Java and Ruby. I spent the first 10 years of my career writing almost 100% Java. Now I mostly do go and python with a smattering of other random config and scripting languages. At a certain point it doesn't matter what languages you know, because once you're experienced enough you can learn a new language during your ramp up period without too much trouble, assuming you aren't being air dropped into some kind of "hair constantly on fire aaaaaaa" startup situation. If you care about keyword matching your resume and backing it up: Java, C/C++, Python, and Javascript (for frontend web) are sensible choices.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:23
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From what I've seen Java is absolutely the best bang for your buck in terms of how easy it is to learn vs how many jobs require it. Java gets poo poo on a lot but you can do plenty of interesting work in Java and lots of companies use it.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:47
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My main concern with Java is the tooling around it, with all the package managers and IDEs. Seems tough to get a project up and going. Other than that, it and C# are fine languages.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:57
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mrmcd posted:C/C++ Careful now.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:06
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Everyone here in NYC is all about Scala (NO SCALA EXPERIENCE REQUIRED!!!) but the more I work with Scala (and people who are new to Scala, like me) the more I question what percentage of people are actually writing idiomatic Scala versus very Java-Scala (like me).
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Sep 19, 2017 16:32
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Everyone here in NYC is all about Scala (NO SCALA EXPERIENCE REQUIRED!!!) but the more I work with Scala (and people who are new to Scala, like me) the more I question what percentage of people are actually writing idiomatic Scala versus very Java-Scala (like me). I mostly see Scala used as "data science and machine learning for Java", so this isn't surprising to me. Take it with a Pollyanna sized grain of salt, though.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:47
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Join me in the world of ad-tech, the land of passably interesting technical problems poisoned by toxic, lovely environments and a complete of lack of care for anything but clicks, impressions, completions, and an impossible to keep up with list of buzzwords. Has anyone used a site's position in an arbitrary google search's results on their own machine on a regular non-incognito tab as a metric at you yet?
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Sep 19, 2017 16:51
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Munkeymon posted:Has anyone used a site's position in an arbitrary google search's results on their own machine on a regular non-incognito tab as a metric at you yet? I don't think our clients or the people we deal with know what incognito mode is to be 100% frank. Ad-tech is literally 90% exploitation of idiots who have money to give you or, if you're in my case, hiding the incriminating details from them.. I mean.. data.. science.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:08
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Eh, I'm pretty sure my company is in Ad-Tech and I think we don't really do SEO. What we do however are e-mails. A crapton of them.
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Sep 19, 2017 18:26
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I don't think our clients or the people we deal with know what incognito mode is to be 100% frank. Ad-tech is literally 90% exploitation of idiots who have money to give you or, if you're in my case, hiding the incriminating details from them.. I mean.. data.. science. This sounds like you're saying there's an ad bubble right now. Which I could absolutely believe...what would it look like if it pops?
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Sep 19, 2017 18:39
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return0 posted:Careful now. Burn the heretic! 
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Sep 19, 2017 18:55
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:This sounds like you're saying there's an ad bubble right now. Which I could absolutely believe...what would it look like if it pops? Interesting to think about how this could happen but I'm not sure just how likely it is (at least not any time soon). As long as there are goods and services to sell coupled with extremely loose regulations for advertisment measuring, displaying, then ad personalization and bidding are problems that are never going to go away. But a lot of it is bogged down by management and sales having a complete lack of understanding on the technical front and just fleecing people for cash. These companies get huge valuations for some reason and then just implode or stagnate and burn through capital. I worked in bidding and personalization at my last job and now I work in data. Bidding and personalization was way cooler, but working on a data processing infrastructure isn't bad just a bit more bland so far.
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Sep 19, 2017 19:17
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Scala is hot garbage and there are better and faster options for the things it's good for.
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Sep 19, 2017 20:38
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I don't even dislike Java and can do almost everything I've done in Scala in (a lot more lines but a lot easier to read for newbies) Java. That said, I work in a Spark environment so..
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Sep 19, 2017 20:43
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Basically, if you have the choice, I'd just look into other functional languages if you want that aspect of Scala (with likely better community support), or move to Java since it (as you said) can now do most of the stuff that made Scala useful in the first place a number of years ago, with much better language support. The code will probably be a lot easier to understand, too.
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Sep 19, 2017 21:03
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E: nm I don't think I care enough about Scala
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Sep 19, 2017 21:07
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This is a load of bullshit, Scala with Spark is cool.
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Sep 19, 2017 22:37
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return0 posted:This is a load of bullshit, Scala with Spark is cool. For what purposes, and compared to what?
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Sep 20, 2017 01:12
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