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nothing to seehere posted:Just finished catching up for this LP, so Make me a captain . I'll take anything destroyer sized or larger, call it the Alien Vessel IIRC, because Word of Saros is "don't." We're designing just the jump-capable colonial fleet right now to reduce the design spam, nobody wants to try and keep track of like 30 different designs come voting time. If the main line fleet that fights in Sol/the gate network is ever relevant I think he'll be cooking it up, or we'll have another contest then.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 15:36 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 07:31 |
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Crazycryodude posted:IIRC, because Word of Saros is "don't." We're designing just the jump-capable colonial fleet right now to reduce the design spam, nobody wants to try and keep track of like 30 different designs come voting time. If the main line fleet that fights in Sol/the gate network is ever relevant I think he'll be cooking it up, or we'll have another contest then. Not true at all, 9900 tons is simply the maximum our current Jump Engines are capable of handling. Maximum ship size is 17,000 tons as per Saros' post.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 15:52 |
LLSix posted:
Don't get to my computer till Tuesday, I will then (we need a proper-sized carrier at least, to go alongside a light carrier)
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 16:21 |
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Scintilla posted:Not true at all, 9900 tons is simply the maximum our current Jump Engines are capable of handling. Maximum ship size is 17,000 tons as per Saros' post. Huh, so it is. Ok, ignore me, let's see the big poo poo
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 16:24 |
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When I get to my computer that has the Aurora install, I'll post my 17,000 ton dreadnought design. Generally it looks like: - 45cm spinal and a 30cm secondary battery - Secondary ASM armament (thinking of changing it to torpedoes to use during a beam fight) - 9 armor, ~55 shields - 4k speed Doctrinally, let's keep the BBs in Sol since it's still our main strategic theater and even with gates, colonies won't have the maintenance cap for a long time to support BBs. In fact they probably won't leave Mars orbit unless we've gotten into it with earth or IC again. Tactically, their job is to assault strongly fortified bodies or enemy BBs in open space. And while we're talking deployment doctrine, we should figure out our fleet disposition in Sol going forward. Now that Uranus and Saturn are friendly, Neptune isn't terribly relevant as a fleet base. We should rebase our outer system fleet to Uranus or Saturn. Both places need some new fixed defenses as well, especially Titan since Earth has that refueling station. We could use some designs for new-tech PDCs and weapon platforms.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 17:30 |
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I think Neptune should still have either the same or more defences than before the start of the war with IC, but we should definitely be trying to build up Uranus as a primary shipyard thats outside of the UT's view.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 17:38 |
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I say the colonial/extrasolar fleet should be hybridized, while the solar fleet should not. We can afford the benefits and avoid the costs of specialization within Sol.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 17:47 |
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We've had a lot of ship and fighter designs, so here's a PDC for variety:code:
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 17:57 |
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Crazycryodude posted:IIRC, because Word of Saros is "don't." We're designing just the jump-capable colonial fleet right now to reduce the design spam, nobody wants to try and keep track of like 30 different designs come voting time. If the main line fleet that fights in Sol/the gate network is ever relevant I think he'll be cooking it up, or we'll have another contest then. TBH, i really think we should operate on the assumption that most of the not-capital/jump drive designs we're cooking up here get used both in Sol and the colonies. Whats the actual differrence in requirements between the two? 12-18 months deployment time already exists on the current fleet, the MSP storage on our ships being yanked up is a good idea no matter where they go, so the only theoretical requirement difference is fuel stowage. I think just making the entire fleet able to operate in either theatre would be a great help for strategic flexibility, and greatly eases the production logistics situation as well.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 18:08 |
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The main difference is the logistical situation. Ships in Sol might have a theoretical 18 month deployment, but that doesn't mean they can't come back for more fuel, ammo and repairs whenever they need it. Our colonial fleets cannot. The 2 theatres call for very different design philosophies, so much that I believe a split fleet is the way to go despite its inherent complications.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 18:18 |
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I wouldn't worry too too much on logistics aside from what Saros says we should worry about. I think the given for the LP is "what is going to make this as fun for Saros to run and for us to enjoy watching" more than anything else.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 18:35 |
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The colonial fleets will have their own bases. Fuel, MSP and missiles cost nothing to store outside Sol so any colony can do it, and transporting them is inexpensive so we can build stockpiles during peacetime. The only reason a ship would need to return to Sol is for major repairs or refit, at least until the colonies are big enough to support their own yards, and that will be true no matter how you design the ships. Maintenance clocks are a factor, but that just means we won't be deploying very large ships like BBs outside Sol for a while.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 18:35 |
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i very much disagree on that point. The only requirement for a colonial ship that isn't also a very good idea on a Sol ship is the fuel requirement, and the only thing to be gained from losing that is perhaps one laser's worth of weaponry. Additional colonial ammo/repair logistical considerations are best handled by dedicated tenders, not by compromising on the combat effectiveness of our ships.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 18:48 |
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Nick Esasky posted:i very much disagree on that point. The only requirement for a colonial ship that isn't also a very good idea on a Sol ship is the fuel requirement, and the only thing to be gained from losing that is perhaps one laser's worth of weaponry. Additional colonial ammo/repair logistical considerations are best handled by dedicated tenders, not by compromising on the combat effectiveness of our ships. Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. Colonial fleets aren't actually that hard to supply cause any colony can be a depot, so specialized colonial designs aren't necessary.
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 19:06 |
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HiHo ChiRho posted:I wouldn't worry too too much on logistics aside from what Saros says we should worry about. I think the given for the LP is "what is going to make this as fun for Saros to run and for us to enjoy watching" more than anything else. I thought that's exactly what Saros said we should worry about though?
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# ? Sep 24, 2017 19:28 |
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Here is my partial answer to needing to assault a JP.code:
LLSix fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Sep 24, 2017 |
# ? Sep 24, 2017 19:50 |
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My take on a DDG is a little different, essentially my logic is the DDG's are fairly fragile fleet assets, they just need the biggest magazine and biggest number of launchers possible to fit on a somewhat survivable chassis. In a fleet fight their main defense is other targets are likely a lot more dangerous or priority, however with 4 layers of armor they should be able to survive until their magazines are empty and they can withdraw. Their active sensor is mostly a backup unfortunately, and they will probably rely on fleet ships to maximize their missile throwing potential, although they aren't blind without a spotter ship either. Between the Launchers, Magazine and FC/Sensor almost 46% of the platform is dedicated to firing of missiles. code:
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 25, 2017 |
# ? Sep 25, 2017 00:19 |
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After a session on Discord, I've made some further improvements to the Communism DDG design. (Thanks to LLSix and Jack2142 for Comparison designs).code:
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# ? Sep 25, 2017 00:31 |
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I think the Ark Royal posted earlier is a fine Cruiser jump tender. So I don't feel the need to create a new one. Instead, here are jump tenders for both the Destroyer and frigate/corvette size ships. First up is the Proletariat class jump tender. Intended to be deployed along with the Communist Mk4 class DDGs its single turret of two gauss cannon will help extend the lifespan of its quartet of DDGs. code:
For our various beam frigates, I present the novel Paw class jump frigate. Given the abundance of beam frigates in the Martian fleet and the sterling service of the Snaggletooth I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 or 3 of these giving good account of themselves in any hypothetical JP assault. It is essentially a Claw class frigate with the main laser replaced with a jump drive. Accordingly, recommend fleet doctrine is to make a squadron jump in a minimum distance from the JP to facilitate closing to beam range with the enemy immediately. Thanks to it's duo of cutting edge shields and lighter armament, any opponent foolish enough to prioritize targeting a Paw will quickly be taught regret by the quartet of Claws or other beam frigates it ferried in-system. code:
Engine design: The proletariat uses the same engine as the Communist: 2 15HS engines at 1.05% boost The Paw uses the same engine as the previously posted Claw. LLSix fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Sep 25, 2017 |
# ? Sep 25, 2017 00:39 |
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I think I've come around to the hybrid approach, but with a kinda of Melissa Meyer twist. Using a crapton of box launchers, you can add a lot of missile capabilities while closing. Going to size 4 vs the size 6 I was anticipating changes the calculus also.code:
code:
sloshmonger fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Sep 25, 2017 |
# ? Sep 25, 2017 19:40 |
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sloshmonger posted:I think I've come around to the hybrid approach, but with a kinda of Melissa Meyer twist. Using a crapton of box launchers, you can add a lot of missile capabilities while closing. It's a cool line of thinking. Do consider that 27 box launchers for size 4 missiles is an 810 ton 0HTK void in the middle of a 9900 ton ship 25% size launchers only gets us 16 tubes but they can now reload without maintenance facilities. 33% size launchers is only 12 tubes but resolves the plaguing 0HTK issue by bringing it to 1HTK. (I'm a fan of the 33% size). 27 tubes is also a pretty good argument. Lots of considerations Incidentally think the discord is firming up on 75% size launchers as a sort of middle ground. Test the viability of reduced launchers without diverging from old doctrine too much & keeping the 2HTK of full size launchers
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 03:56 |
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Strap enough beams and missiles to a ship to make the season finale of Gundam SEED jelous.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 04:51 |
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Gridlocked posted:Strap enough beams and missiles to a ship to make the season finale of Gundam SEED jelous. I hope we can get to a stage where we are building ridiculous super battleships.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 05:01 |
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Fuel/Ammo/Maintnence Tenders We're gonna need them, and i don't see any proposals floating about for them. I have a few. With JDs, so they can go fetch things themselves/pull things back to Sol for repair on their own. Potentially also can fill generic Sit On JP And Help Jump Things duty if not otherwise needed/its safe. code:
code:
code:
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 05:07 |
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Moved TOE to latter post
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Sep 28, 2017 |
# ? Sep 26, 2017 05:39 |
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Gridlocked posted:Strap enough beams and missiles to a ship to make the season finale of Gundam SEED jelous. You want something big or a lot of something? code:
TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Sep 26, 2017 |
# ? Sep 26, 2017 07:20 |
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One thing is for bigger ships instead of a hybrid I'd accept is towed missile pods which can be dropped after firing. Ideally the ships maintain the 4k fleet speed while towing though.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 11:32 |
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I present my newest Creation code:
code:
Tythas fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Sep 26, 2017 |
# ? Sep 26, 2017 12:07 |
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Saros posted:One thing is for bigger ships instead of a hybrid I'd accept is towed missile pods which can be dropped after firing. Ideally the ships maintain the 4k fleet speed while towing though. Are there any considerations for nonmilitary designs? It would save some MSP/etc to use commercial hulls for the noncombat fleet (like a civilian freezerbus, tanker, etc) especially since civilian-flagged ships can still mount 'military' jumpdrives... Or they could use civilian jumpdrives on bigger ships with bigger engines to tow the gently caress out of some slower military tonnage like a murderbarge full of box bombers. But that would probably be separate from / after the initial extrasolar combat fleet is up. Also might be worth pointing out: you can't tractor a ship/station/etc through a non-gated JP if it doesn't have an engine. So they'll have to be jumped inside hangars.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 12:40 |
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So, with the option of 75% Missile launchers, It potentially makes DDG's a viable ship type for the fleet suggestions Jack has put out. I've got 3 Designs, but for the sake of Thread cluttering I'll just post the 2 that aren't using the freed tonnage for more Tubes. Edit: Both Designs now with a Bigger Sensor to 97.6 Mil range. The Communism B - Balanced. code:
It uses the freed Tonnage to add an additional Tube, while shoring up the ship design as a whole for more Fuel, Next up is the one that fits into Jack's Fleet Ideas, the Communism H - Hybrid. code:
To add to the code:
The design can hold 2 Full-size Fighters, features as much MSP as some full Fledged CVL's, Sufficient fuel for limited Operations (As it's engines are relatively efficient) & can store 42 S4 Missiles. The design also features 5 Layers of Armour, making up for a lack of Shields & allowing it to survive any surprise attacks (That aren't several WH26 Torpedoes at once). Tactical_Torpedo fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 1, 2017 |
# ? Sep 26, 2017 12:49 |
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If we're talking fleet composition I'd hope it would be built around Jump tenders. That would mean 4 9900 ton cruisers, 4 or 8 4500 ton destroyers and 4, 8, or 12 frigates. With maybe some marine raiders attached. I'd hate to waste jump capacity by bringing in a lighter ship with a heavier jump tender. Having only 4 destroyers assisting an equal number of Cruisers would feel unbalanced to me. Given the way our ship designs are shaking out, I think I'd be delighted to get a fleet composition of: 1 9900 ton Assault Jump Tender carrying 3 CGs with secondary beam armaments (the hybrid missile/beam ships we've been discussing) 1 Beam Cruiser of some design. 2 4500 ton Assault Jump Tenders 4x DDGs 1 AMM DD 2 PD DDs 1 CVE with 3k - 4k tons of hanger space or another AMM I think 2 4500 ton assault jump tenders would be good because we have a wide variety of DD designs and I really want a foursome of DDGs to boost the salvo density of our CGs. 1+ 3000 ton Assualt Jump Tenders 2 Fleet scouts 2 Fast Frigates armed with beams (arguably these duplicate the beam cruiser but I think they're behavior is different enough to be allowed, especially if the frigates emphasize speed over other design elements) Has anyone even submitted any frigate design roles other than beam or scout? Maybe a JP assault specialist to replace the two fleet scouts when doing assault jumps? I wouldn't mind bringing a 9900 CVL in the main colonial force, but it's going to be so, so vulnerable in any JP assault I'd rather plan around only having them available if we have a secured JP already. I don't mind the likely loss of the CVE so much. Expendable is right in the name after all. Whatever Saros wants to give us in terms of a fleet will be awesome though.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 17:04 |
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My logic on the fleet shaking down as carrying fewer ships was mostly to keep smaller Cru-Div sized forces, the logic would be that larger fleets could easily be formed by adding a jump tender(s) to carry more cruisers and destroyers.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 17:36 |
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For our basic combat task group, I'd rather have multiple cruiser divisions than one cruiser division and two destroyer divisions. It makes our overall production, strategic deployment, and tender allocation simpler. How about this for a basic TOE unit: code:
Fray fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Sep 26, 2017 |
# ? Sep 26, 2017 18:12 |
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After some discord talk, I'd also propose this as our basic destroyer division: -1x 4500 ton tender -3x cavalry beam DD. Magnus's schiap design would work. -1x AMM-PD DD It can operate independently to defend or attack lesser objectives, or it can be attached to cruiser squadrons as a supporting formation.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 20:00 |
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Saros posted:One thing is for bigger ships instead of a hybrid I'd accept is towed missile pods which can be dropped after firing. Ideally the ships maintain the 4k fleet speed while towing though. Comedy option: code:
code:
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 21:20 |
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That seems.... disturbingly effective. Swap a 15cm for a microwave, and you will wreck poo poo.
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 21:24 |
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Expendable missile pod? Sweet lets see wha-code:
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 21:56 |
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Crazyeyes24 posted:Expendable missile pod? Sweet lets see wha- +/- Fanatics Bremen posted:Comedy option:
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 22:17 |
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Extrapolating on Frey's Organization, which is pretty similar to mine here is how I would say envision a operational chart for our forces for say a jump capable line fleet, and its support vessels. The Big Advantage is this fleet cuts down on redundancy, each ship does its own thing and fills a vital role, and we don't have multiple beam cruiser designs, PD designs or missile boat designs. Everything is consolidated into fewer and more robust platforms. As a result there are only six combat designs in this fleet (CA, CG, FR, DD, CLAA, CVL) and Six support designs (FSV, CO, TK, JT-99, JT-45, FS). Right now for example the Martian navy has ~11 designs for Cruiser, Carriers & Destroyers alone. Additional ships such as Troop Transports, Landing Ships, Marine Corvettes, Survey Ships all can be attached as auxiliary forces, while Capital Ships such as the Mariner Valley will form their own fleet groups as they are jump incompatible. 1st Interstellar Fleet 11th Cruiser Division 1x Fleet scout 111th Jump Cruiser Squadron - 1x Jump Tender 9900 Tons - 1x Beam Cruiser (Cruiser Division Flagship) - 2x Missile Cruisers - 1x PD Cruiser 112th Jump Destroyer Squadron -1x Jump Tender 4500 Tons -3x Calvary Beam Destroyers -1x AMM Frigate 22nd Cruiser Division 1x Fleet scout 222nd Jump Cruiser Squadron 1x Jump Tender 9900 Tons - 1x Beam Cruiser (Cruiser Division Flagship) - 2x Missile Cruisers - 1x PD Cruiser 223rd Jump Destroyer Squadron -1x Jump Tender 4500 Tons -3x Calvary Beam Destroyers -1x AMM Frigate 1st Fleet Support/Reserve Squadron 1x FSV 9900 Ton (+Jump Drives) 1x Tanker 9900 Ton (+Jump Drives) 1x Collier 9900 Ton (+Jump Drives) 2x Light Carriers 2x AMM Frigates?or Beam Destroyers (Mix?) The entire fleet numbers roughly 29 ships which makes for a very powerful and well rounded force. The Fleet can then be broken down into a pair of Cruiser-Divisions of 11 Ships which are similar in size although much more powerful than their current iteration. These Cruiser Divisions are composed of a Destroyer Squadron and a Cruiser Squadron based around their respective jump tenders. As a result for minor threats we could detach a single destroyer squadron, while major threats might necessitate a whole Cruiser-Div. In addition to these forces there will be a 5th "Reserve" Squadron likely based out of one of our major fleet bases such as Triton, which will command our Support Ships, Carriers and some reserve destroyers either for escort duty or to replace battle casualties. 2x 9900 Ton Tenders 4x Missile Cruisers 2x Beam Cruisers 2x PD Cruisers 2x Light Carriers 2x 4500 Ton Tenders 4x AMM Frigates 6x Calvary Beam Destroyer 2x Fleet Scouts 1x Collier 1x Tanker 1x FSV (MSP Bus) Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Sep 28, 2017 |
# ? Sep 26, 2017 22:32 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 07:31 |
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Fleet Scout I have an upteched/upfueled Gale without a JD. That is all. Recommended if we want options to just be an annoying shadow on the enemy fleet like Windhund was doing during the leadup to 2nd Titan. code:
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# ? Sep 26, 2017 22:59 |