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This was pretty good. It's like the anti-Enterprise: not in any way beholden to canon, the characters are better written and deeper than I expected, and it while it definitely makes mistakes at least it's committed to making new mistakes instead of just rehashing the TNG/Voyager vibe. I mean, we have The Orville for that.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:00
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I spent the first half waiting for something to happen, and when something did finally happen it was the dumbest thing and it got worse from there. At the end of the pilot I didn't really remember who most of the characters were or care what happened to them. Sure it could improve and I'm sure it's the main character's arc to learn not to be a huge idiot but man that was rough. Also I know I keep ragging on this but, to me Star Trek always looked cool and this did not look cool.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:00
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Since this is ten years before Kirk, does that mean Pike is currently captain of the original Enterprise? In like another sector?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:00
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thexerox123 posted:The mutiny resulted in her being demoted, but her trip to the beacon and her idea to capture their leader resulted in the other two. The beacon trip was reckless, sure, but it's not like she could have known that touching a century old spaceship would cause the Klingons to declare war. Not only is she not morally culpable, she's arguably acting within the spirit of Star Trek. We made fun of the "there's no room to DISCOVER" line, but only because it's an over-precise way to describe the central theme of the show. Kidnapping the leader was the big mistake. speng31b posted:The only winning plan was Saru's "retreat" idea. They would have left outposts undefended, but they wouldn't have proven T'Kuvma's thesis and he wouldn't have been able to unite the empire in war. Exactly. The whole time they were talking about how they couldn't retreat, I was thinking "Yeah, you totally can!" Regroup, try to figure out what the Klingons are actually doing, then come up with a strategy. They just saw a Klingon ship do something that they believed was impossible and they know that they killed someone on their ship. There's no reason to believe that anything positive will happen, making Georgieu's position completely incoherent. You can't retreat, but you also can't attack. The only thing you can do is wait until the Klingons are done doing whatever they want to do, including blowing your ship out of the sky. It's all very dramatic, but it doesn't make any sense.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:01
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The Fuzzy Hulk posted:Since this is ten years before Kirk, does that mean Pike is currently captain of the original Enterprise? In like another sector? pretty sure the answer to this is yes, with Spock already on board no less Crusader fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 05:01
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bango skank posted:Is there any precedent for the federation/starfleet locking somebody up for loving life? I know they've always had prisons but a life sentence seems so un-star trek it's kind of baffling. The prison colony from Dagger of the Mind seemed to be very long term, but I'm not sure if that's exactly comparable.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:02
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Tighclops posted:Also I know I keep ragging on this but, to me Star Trek always looked cool and this did not look cool. Reviews are divided already but they pretty much all agree that the show looks great. I don't know what you expected.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:04
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It has some issues, but I liked it. The good: I liked the characters, especially Michael, Michelle Yeoh, the fish guy, and the Vulcan father-figure. The visuals were real neat, and there was good deal of fun spaceship action. Michael talking to the computer in the brig was cool. It also made space seem vast and kind of unknown, which I like. I also liked that they spent some time characterizing the Klingons and showing us some backstory. The bad: Several of the arguments were really melodramatic and unearned this early in the show, especially Michael's mutiny. I also didn't like that they killed off the captain. Sure, people die in war, but at least make it seem more meaningful. I would have liked the show to be a little more optimistic. Also, so many dutch angles and lens flares! The weird: Michael seems kind of racist against Klingons. I guess (and hope) it will be part of her arc to get past that. The Federation also seems really underhanded, which I don't feel very good about. Placing a bomb on the corpse when the Klingons are simply trying to gather their dead seems like it ought to violate some sort of Geneva convention. If I were with the Klingons and the Federation did something like that, I'd definitely think they were the bad guys. All that said, I'm looking forward to seeing more. Hopefully the show becomes a bit more optimistic and a little less melodramatic. DorianGravy fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 05:06
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I said come in! posted:As I suspected this show is pretty bad. So many cheap emotional moments that the story had not earned, and plot twists that were beyond absurd and make very little sense. You're right about the emotional moments. I wish this poo poo was just LCARS and 24th century like a muhfucka Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Jesus did anyone else think the Klingon scenes loving dragged? Yes, and they should have hair, dammit.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:08
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DorianGravy posted:The Federation also seems really underhanded, which I don't feel very good about. Placing a bomb on the corpse when the Klingons are simply trying to gather their dead seems like it ought to violate some of Geneva convention. If I were with the Klingons and the Federation did something like that, I'd definitely think they were the bad guys. Kind of like agreeing to a ceasefire immediately before slicing through a ship after your pre-planned assault?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:08
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bango skank posted:Is there any precedent for the federation/starfleet locking somebody up for loving life? I know they've always had prisons but a life sentence seems so un-star trek it's kind of baffling. Yeah, that was really dumb. The impression I get is either that they're going for a "the federation as you know it still hasn't figured it's poo poo out and doesn't exist yet", but in the timeline I just don't see how that's the case. The other option is a complete lack of awareness on the part of the writers. I'm sure Burnham is supposed to learn some lessons about what makes Star trek Star trek, but her own pretty minimal amount of moral culpability for what happened combined with the faceless court of dudes sentencing her to life makes the federation seem lovely. So far we haven't met anyone we can look up to. In trek no one character ever had all the answers, but so far in this one noone has ANY answers or any moral authority. It's like Star trek with no adults in the room. speng31b fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 05:09
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Wait why does the lady have a dude name? Is it pronounced weird?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:10
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speng31b posted:Yeah, that was really dumb. The impression I get is either that they're going for a "the federation as you know it still hasn't figured it's poo poo out and doesn't exist yet", but in the timeline I just don't see how that's the case. The other option is a complete lack of awareness on the part of the writers. To be fair, in the history of Star Trek, there have been maybe 2 or 3 non-lovely admirals. Since when has Starfleet upper command seemed to be brimming with moral authority?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:11
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thexerox123 posted:Kind of like agreeing to a ceasefire immediately before slicing through a ship after your pre-planned assault? No doubt, that's totally underhanded. I just want the Federation to strive to be better than whoever they're fighting. Maybe the new captain will better capture that ideal.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:13
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Zurui posted:Reviews are divided already but they pretty much all agree that the show looks great. I don't know what you expected. I was hoping the video gamey feel of the promos would dissapear once I saw it in motion but nope. The Klingon stuff looks intricate and expensive but the Starfleet ships are ugly and uncomfortable to me so far.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:13
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gently caress this show is so bad. The uniforms are a joke. Even Star Trek Enterprise knew to have the color-coded jobs, you don't gently caress with something that isn't broke. The bridge is so dark, everything is metallic chrome. That space suit she was wearing outside? Who the hell designed that? it looked like a parody of Halo. Huge shoulderpads and poo poo, skinny legs... what were they thinking? Why re-design Klingons? That's so stupid. I hate taking a known IP and re-doing it different just because. Why not just create some new aliens? Why not say "hey, these are the Klingdassians" ??? Because nobody can be original anymore. Speaking of being original, hey, she's not half-human half-vulcan, she's a human raised by vulcans! Totally different from Spock! Not the same thing at all. Also if this is all about cold war, why is it called Star Trek Discovery ?? Discovery implies a return to the Roddenberry format. Such a misnomer. This is Star Trek: Combat Evolved.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:13
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Holy gently caress I hate this show and part 2 better be her being sent to space jail and her career ruined. God drat this is bad.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:14
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After watching the second part of the pilot I agree the show has potential, but I don't have any interest in paying $10 to see it. The music and visuals are the best part, and Burnham and Saru are interesting, well acted characters. The pilot's plot was rather flimsy, and there were a lot of shortcuts taken for characterization (poorly conceived flashbacks, mostly expository conversations). The dialogue is nothing special for Trek. In all, it departs from the Trek formula in enough ways to be interesting, at least. It's the kind of show that'll be good in season 2, if it gets one. edit: thexerox123 posted:To be fair, in the history of Star Trek, there have been maybe 2 or 3 non-lovely admirals. Since when has Starfleet upper command seemed to be brimming with moral authority? Admiral Janeway had a firm grasp on ethical and moral conduct.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:14
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The opening was directly ripped off from Abrams Star Trek. There's nothing original here. Its a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. Ugh. speng31b posted:The other option is a complete lack of awareness on the part of the writers. Ding ding ding
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Sep 25, 2017 05:15
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pospysyl posted:The beacon trip was reckless, sure, but it's not like she could have known that touching a century old spaceship would cause the Klingons to declare war. Not only is she not morally culpable, she's arguably acting within the spirit of Star Trek. We made fun of the "there's no room to DISCOVER" line, but only because it's an over-precise way to describe the central theme of the show. Kidnapping the leader was the big mistake. You don't think a soldier/diplomat being noncommital and taking a half-measure is realistic? The soldier mind of the captain won't let her abandon civilians which would be vulnerable and the diplomat side of her still thinks that the Klingons can be reasoned with. The Klingons are an interesting enemy for the Federation because they are one of the first major alien civilizations encountered where the strategy of "hey let's talk and be friends" doesn't loving work (at least in the typical way the Federation has operated so far).
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Sep 25, 2017 05:15
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AlternateAccount posted:Wait why does the lady have a dude name? Is it pronounced weird? Bryan Fuller is an idiot and thinks it is interesting
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Sep 25, 2017 05:16
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thexerox123 posted:To be fair, in the history of Star Trek, there have been maybe 2 or 3 non-lovely admirals. Since when has Starfleet upper command seemed to be brimming with moral authority? Admiral level folks are usually pitched as bad in an overly bureaucratic kind of way, very occasionally straight up malevolent. But it's rare to get two episodes into a season of Star trek with no source of moral authority and a sense that maybe everyone in the federation is racist, filled with bloodlust or incompetent.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:16
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If the season arc is the main character learning from her mistakes, the director and possibly writers of this episode were terrible. You don't have the captain have an "I'm not mad, I'm disappointd" style conversation that ends with the main character getting the last word justifying herself. You don't have Sarek give her a pep talk. Give more than a loving stern conversation from the captain and an understated sentencing. She assaulted her captain and tried to take over the ship in a combat situation, but people worked with her afterwards like it was okay. She shows up on the bridge and everyone's sad but fine? It looks like there are repercussions down the line, but the way she was treated in the episode felt like what happens when Kirk decides to break the rules heroically. If you're going to do something like booby trap dead bodies, at least have the characters recognize that they're up to something lovely. Have someone object a bit more strongly here. I'm really hoping this comes back to bite them. Booby trapping the dead and wounded is a literal war crime. The fact that this was the Captain's idea was worrying, since she was framed as the voice of pacifism to a fault. Maybe this is all going to get flipped on its head and they'll deconstruct all of this later, but they knew a long time ago that they had to sell this show to the audience in the first episode. It'd be pretty dumb if they intentionally misrepresented the show during that episode for dramatic effect later on down the line. Other comments: The Klingon scenes were exhausting. Initially I thought it was because the dialogue was slow, but the subtitles are as fast as if it were in english. There's just absolutely no emoting through the makeup, and the costumes don't give them any latitude for body movement to make up for the lack of facial expression. I feel bad for the actors. They have huge amounts of facial makeup, no ability to move and then have to phonetically memorize lines in a made up language. Why did this plot need to be in the past? If they were going to explain the concept for the rest of the season in the season trailer after the second episode, they really should have been airing both episodes on TV in the states. I wasn't interested in the show I saw at the end of the first episode, or at the end of the second episode really. I'm willing to give the show in the season trailer a bit of a try. Why couldn't the computer at least connect the dots and realize that it has the ability to open a loving door? The Captain wasn't bothered when she found out that several decks full of her friends and crew were destroyed... until the deck with the brig was listed. The argument that someone will become a martyr if they're killed is often a stretch. In this case, it's ridiculous. They know absolutely nothing about the politics of the situation, or the politics of the empire. They have no reason to expect that he'd be a martyr. The definitely don't have reason to expect that he'd be a good enough hostage to make their improbable plan worthwhile. I feel like the writer forgot that the characters don't have all the information the viewers have. They could have set this up, but they didn't. T.C. fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 05:17
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DorianGravy posted:No doubt, that's totally underhanded. I just want the Federation to strive to be better than whoever they're fighting. Maybe the new captain will better capture that ideal. I'm definitely a fan of Roddenberry's philosophies and vision, but I appreciate when Trek can examine those ideals through a lens that takes into account... actual human nature.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:17
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skasion posted:Bryan Fuller is an idiot and thinks it is interesting Most disappointing answer possible.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:18
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I didn't see this thread at first so I posted in the other Star Trek thread but, I feel so violated. I had no idea this show was going to be totally on a pay per view site. Even though I have the money and I'm a huge Star Trek nerd, I'm just not going to do it. CBS has nothing to offer me that I want to see; 4 versions of some CSI spin-off, spare me please. Maybe I'm better off with letting the greatness that was Star Trek exist only in my past. Live long and prosper. is there somewhere that "we'll all access it elsewhere" is a reality?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:18
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speng31b posted:Admiral level folks are usually pitched as bad in an overly bureaucratic kind of way, very occasionally straight up malevolent. But it's rare to get two episodes into a season of Star trek with no source of moral authority and a sense that maybe everyone in the federation is racist, filled with bloodlust or incompetent. LET THEM DIE
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Sep 25, 2017 05:18
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:You don't think a soldier/diplomat being noncommital and taking a half-measure is realistic? The soldier mind of the captain won't let her abandon civilians which would be vulnerable and the diplomat side of her still thinks that the Klingons can be reasoned with. The Klingons are an interesting enemy for the Federation because they are one of the first major alien civilizations encountered where the strategy of "hey let's talk and be friends" doesn't loving work (at least in the typical way the Federation has operated so far). If only there was a test that Starfleet Command had to take that taught officers about no-win situations.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:18
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T.C. posted:Why did this plot need to be in the past? Because it's set at a time when Klingon-Human relations are a very fraught unknown?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:18
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Fish guy was like the only thing I liked about the whole thing and even he was cringey once or twice. The writing is just soooo cheesy. It really hurts. MIchelle Yeoh is really trying but they're not giving her anything good to work with. T.C. posted:If you're going to do something like booby trap dead bodies, at least have the characters recognize that they're up to something lovely. Have someone object a bit more strongly here. I'm really hoping this comes back to bite them. Booby trapping the dead and wounded is a literal war crime. Also maybe don't steal the "dead bodies in coffins as weapons" thing from the 2nd Abrams Star Trek film? It was slightly different but only sightly. Its like the writers have no idea how to do anything original and can only crib from existing material. Badly. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 05:19
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skasion posted:Bryan Fuller is an idiot and thinks it is interesting Didn't he want her to just be called "Number One", like in the original ST pilot?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:22
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I noticed the Europa had a red stripe on the saucer, I guess to signify it was a flag ship.
Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 05:22
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2nd episode spoiler Too bad about Michelle Yeoh dying, she was the best actor they had
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Sep 25, 2017 05:22
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T.C. posted:The Klingon scenes were exhausting. Initially I thought it was because the dialogue was slow, but the subtitles are as fast as if it were in english. There's just absolutely no emoting through the makeup, and the costumes don't give them any latitude for body movement to make up for the lack of facial expression. I feel bad for the actors. They have huge amounts of facial makeup, no ability to move and then have to phonetically memorize lines in a made up language. The designs are terrible. Where with say, Worf, you could see enough of Michael Dorn underneath to get his emotion and acting, with these stupid Prometheus rubber faces they just look like video game goons. I miss when Klingons could smile and tell jokes and stuff. These guys are just 24/7 SERIOUS ANGER AND HONOR mode. THESE are klingons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTuD6xf-ync
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Sep 25, 2017 05:22
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Yeah I think the most odd and offputting thing about the pilot is that there are no likable or admirable characters at all. Burnham is an unmitigated rear end in a top hat and if they don't develop her character quite a lot, I'm gonna have a hard time enjoying this show. Georgiou's character we barely get a feel for. Sarek is supercilious and doesn't have the grace or the sense of wisdom that Lenard's Sarek gave off. Saru is a persnickety coward. The closest thing to a heroic figure is T'Kuvma who for all that he's a perfidious space invader Wahhabi or whatever, at least sticks up for the little guy.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:23
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thexerox123 posted:I'm definitely a fan of Roddenberry's philosophies and vision, but I appreciate when Trek can examine those ideals through a lens that takes into account... actual human nature. Well good, because all of that can be found on The Orville.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:23
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thexerox123 posted:Because it's set at a time when Klingon-Human relations are a very fraught unknown? Why not make this a sequel and the Klingons a new race? Were they that attached to shoehorning in Sarek? skasion posted:Bryan Fuller is an idiot and thinks it is interesting You could be right, but I'm not going to blame him since he was fired and they could have and did change anything of his they wanted to.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:24
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OctaMurk posted:2nd episode spoiler Too bad about Michelle Yeoh dying, she was the best actor they had I knew from the *second* that she mentioned setting up Michael for Captain that she wouldn't last. That's foreshadowing with a megaphone.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:24
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pospysyl posted:If only there was a test that Starfleet Command had to take that taught officers about no-win situations. Hindsight is 20/20 and commanders sometimes make the wrong decision. The point is that the captain still thought she COULD win by diplomacy, which starfleet is kind of big on. If they were facing most other aliens then diplomacy could have worked. Unfortunately she got KLINGON'ED
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Sep 25, 2017 05:25
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Astroman posted:Yeah, I thought these were the long lost Klingon Sarcophagas Ships, which were separated from the rest of the Empire for centuries, thus the different look. But it looks like only the one ship was, and the rest are just warping in from present day Empire, and of course they don't look like goddamn D-7s. They look more like the Romulan ships from Abrams Trek than anything else. Which makes since because everything is copied from Abrams Trek apparently. I guess because it had mainstream success?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:28
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