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Kild
Apr 24, 2010

Andrast posted:

With some heroes getting picked once in the whole multi-day tournament and others having near 100% ban/pick rate

(It's still really well balanced most of the time)

And some teams stomping whole tournaments without repeating heroes

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TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Manatee Cannon posted:

is there a competitive game where there aren't tiers and everything is viable?

No items, Fox only, Final Destination.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013




Burkion posted:

It does, every Saturday

Translations can be a BIT ropey but nothing as bad as the fan subs refusing to translate Nigen as anything other than Human

Iirc the crunchy subs still do that.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Tekken 7

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

Sindai posted:

Starcraft: Brood War?

The fact that there are only 3 choices and it took years to balance them tells you how difficult it is though.

Doesn't Brood War still end up with the top eight being like 3/4th terrans still?

tbp
Mar 1, 2008

DU WIRST NIEMALS ALLEINE MARSCHIEREN

Neo_Crimson posted:

Hence why I said no "hard" tiers. Yes, I am aware it's impossible to have a perfectly balanced game with varied characters. However it is possible to have a game where the gulf between a "good" character and a "bad" character is small enough that picking the latter isn't an automatic failure state. No "Fox Only, No Items, Final Destination" situations basically.

melees interesting because as it was designed it basically fulfills what you want in "no hard tiers". even at a moderately competitive level, more or less every character is fine enough in a viability sense. its the players the exploit the game for absurd technical ability that give berth to the more defined tiers and super high level characters that otherwise you'd literally never notice. even up until the professional level you can use something like 80% of the roster w/ okay results, the learning curve on fox/falco is fairly absurd.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen
don't MOBAs have such big team variety because you can ban half the roster at character creation? Idk if that's a fair comparison since any fighting game tournament will have tons of variety if you can just ban characters

canoshiz
Nov 6, 2005

THANK GOD FOR THE SMOKE MACHINE!

Neo_Crimson posted:

Hence why I said no "hard" tiers. Yes, I am aware it's impossible to have a perfectly balanced game with varied characters. However it is possible to have a game where the gulf between a "good" character and a "bad" character is small enough that picking the latter isn't an automatic failure state. No "Fox Only, No Items, Final Destination" situations basically.

FYI this is basically never true (and the Fox only meme especially so) if you are not a top level player of a game. Tiers do not apply to 99% of the players of a game and of all the "important" things that make up a good competitive game, balance alone is one of the least important despite common perception. As long as the DBFZ is fun to play mechanically and has numerous interesting matchups and varied team compositions to provide depth, it should be a great game.

graham cracker
Mar 8, 2004

"There is no God! Right, Mama?"

"True."


https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/912843944198905856

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


I am mildly curious what this means for women over the age of 15. Do they lose respect for themselves? Do they vanish in a puff of logic?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Anyone that unironically calls themselves Toxically Masculine as a good thing is a moron.

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Burkion posted:

Anyone that unironically calls themselves Toxically Masculine as a good thing is a moron.

Immortan Joe was the good guy, right?

graham cracker
Mar 8, 2004

"There is no God! Right, Mama?"

"True."


Mr. Satan taught us all that it's okay for real men to cry IMHO

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


CharlestonJew posted:

don't MOBAs have such big team variety because you can ban half the roster at character creation? Idk if that's a fair comparison since any fighting game tournament will have tons of variety if you can just ban characters

Not really. There are 112 heroes in dota 2 and both teams have 5 picks and bans each so only 20 heroes out of the pool are interacted with during the start.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Burkion posted:

Anyone that unironically calls themselves Toxically Masculine as a good thing is a moron.

Andrew Tate also doesn't believe depression exists

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

Who the gently caress is Andrew Tate

Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

Raxivace posted:

Who the gently caress is Andrew Tate

Kickboxer who was on Big Brother, but was kicked out after they found out he beat his girlfriend.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Neo_Crimson posted:

Kickboxer who was on Big Brother, but was kicked out after they found out he beat his girlfriend.

Truly a man whose opinion on Dragon Ball Z is well worth considering.

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

Neo_Crimson posted:

Kickboxer who was on Big Brother, but was kicked out after they found out he beat his girlfriend.

He was proposing like Goku!

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
https://mobile.twitter.com/WeebSimpsons/status/910884603262590976

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

BizarroAzrael posted:

He was proposing like Goku!

Then he did a poo poo job because Goku never hit Chi-chi

The Toei filler where he sends her through the house with a backpat doesn't count

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

BizarroAzrael posted:

He was proposing like Goku!

It really wasn't much of a fight. One hit, and she just went down. Then they got married, he put a baby in her, and now she just stays at home, cooks his dinner, and raises their kid!

graham cracker
Mar 8, 2004

"There is no God! Right, Mama?"

"True."



The first few replies to this are great too.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

TenCentFang posted:

It really wasn't much of a fight. One hit, and she just went down. Then they got married, he put a baby in her, and now she just stays at home, cooks his dinner, and raises their kid!

BOOOO

Zinkraptor
Apr 24, 2012

TheKingofSprings posted:

Then he did a poo poo job because Goku never hit Chi-chi

The Toei filler where he sends her through the house with a backpat doesn't count

No that was in the manga. It was like two panels though, which means that Toei probably made a couple full episodes out of it. Full disclosure I haven't actually watched more than three episodes of the DBZ anime (all of them were Goku charging a spirit bomb).

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

canoshiz posted:

FYI this is basically never true (and the Fox only meme especially so) if you are not a top level player of a game. Tiers do not apply to 99% of the players of a game and of all the "important" things that make up a good competitive game, balance alone is one of the least important despite common perception. As long as the DBFZ is fun to play mechanically and has numerous interesting matchups and varied team compositions to provide depth, it should be a great game.

I'd argue it's a little more complex, depending on how much of a tier list is skill ceilings and how much is skill floors. At casual play, a high floor character is going to seem really "cheap" compared to others. For example, Meta Knight was pretty much an overpowered scourge at any tier level, but he's kind of an outlier in that regard.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

TenCentFang posted:

It really wasn't much of a fight. One hit, and she just went down. Then they got married, he put a baby in her, and now she just stays at home, cooks his dinner, and raises their kid!

haha I remember this

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
So really looking at it, does Goku have a losing record throughout the series? He definitely does in DBZ and S

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Kashuno posted:

So really looking at it, does Goku have a losing record throughout the series? He definitely does in DBZ and S

It depends. Are you qualifying 'big' fights or fights in general. If the latter then no, Dragonball and Goku's constant punching of crap dudes puts him well over the top. Super and Z have a lot less of that so it starts to go against him.

Zoro
Aug 30, 2017

by Smythe

https://twitter.com/AWDtwit/status/910894351923920898
https://twitter.com/Zach_Logan/status/910906167798456320
https://twitter.com/SteveYurko/status/910907718554206208

Seriously, this is the best twitter. And I need this in my life.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008

Burkion posted:

Anyone that unironically calls themselves Toxically Masculine as a good thing is a moron.

they also have a pinned tweet thread where they mockingly come out as trans so hey

Matoi Ryuko
Jan 6, 2004



Andrew tate is banned from adtrw FOR LIFE!!

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
Didn't see this posted:

Xenoverse 2 is getting a new (paid DLC) expansion that adds a bunch of Buu Saga stuff.

https://twitter.com/bandainamcous/status/911217513219842048

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
gently caress "season passes" if they dont contain all DLC

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

Kashuno posted:

gently caress "season passes" if they dont contain all DLC

How many seasons do you know of that last longer than a year? Because the game is less than a month from being a year old.

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.
where is SSGSS for Created Gokus.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Kashuno posted:

So really looking at it, does Goku have a losing record throughout the series? He definitely does in DBZ and S

goku almost always wins in original dragon ball but still does lose (the first two tournaments, tao pai pai, and piccolo come to mind. he might have lost to his ghost granpa but I think they just stopped fighting when goku figure it out). the fights are generally 1v1, compared to dbz where the big bads usually require at least a bit of teamwork

in dbz, goku doesn't really "lose" all that much because the stakes are different (goku dies with raditz but he still won that fight, for example) but he always needs help to beat the big bads and almost never wins a straight 1v1 fight

super is inverse dragon ball where goku almost always loses

Momomo
Dec 26, 2009

Dont judge me, I design your manhole
Xenoverse is really weird in that the arc with the most importance to the plot (as Towa was getting revenge for Dabura) had the least relevant events.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

Dabura wasn't even in either Xenoverse game until this DLC or whatever.

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Ham Cheeks
Nov 18, 2012

Feeling hammy
U4 Speculation: Damon and Gamisaras aren’t invisible but actually sticking either to the side or bottom of the arena. They are described as cicada warriors. Note that cicadas can fly and molt.

Can you think of another cicada-looking fellow that molted and generally made a mess of things?

Cell. 17 and 18 will have a chance to fight the U4 version of Cell when Damon absorbs Gamisaras. Or we get Gohan v. Cell again when he/she absorbs 17 & 18 lol

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