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El Estrago Bonito
Dec 17, 2010

Scout Finch Bitch

Sheriff posted:

Thanks for reminding me of another exchange that doesn't hold up, not because it's problematic today but instead because it isn't what a conservative would believe. This one is from the pilot:

Hank Hill: How is cutting down on pollution a government plot, Dale?
Dale Gribble: Open up your eyes, man. They're trying to control global warming. Get it? GLO-BAL.
Hank Hill: So what?
Dale Gribble: That's code for U.N. commissars telling Americans what the temperature's going to be in their outdoors. I say let the world warm up, see what Boutros Boutros-Ghali-Ghali thinks about that! We'll grow oranges in Alaska.
Hank Hill: Dale, you giblet-head, we live in Texas. It's already 110° in the summer, and if it gets one degree hotter, I'm gonna kick your rear end!

I think this still almost works because one of the undercurrents of a lot of the good parts of that show were that Hank was willing to go against conservative politics and religion when they were being assholes to people. Lots of KotH poo poo didn't age well, even if it wasn't from that long ago. One Cool Customer is especially bad. The idea of, like, only cool hip people having tech gadgets in the modern day when everyone's gradma has an iPhone, or how the whole family style/open seating thing turned out to be a pretty short lived trend outside of hipster breweries and farm to table places.

Daria, as far as loosely Mike Judge associated things go, has held up remarkably well somehow. The final episode ("Boxing Daria") is maybe some of the best TV ever made for teenagers ever.

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TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

El Estrago Bonito posted:

One Cool Customer is especially bad. The idea of, like, only cool hip people having tech gadgets in the modern day when everyone's gradma has an iPhone

That episode confused the hell out of me for this reason. Or maybe it's from me never having been around rich people? It was just so weird and alien I had a hard time connecting any of it to reality.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

plainswalker75 posted:

David Brin's Earth did a pretty good job predicting the general trend of internet culture, including trolling, the difficulty of finding relevant information and even (arguably) fursonas.

I'm still waiting for 3D Star Trek.

houstonguy
Jun 2, 2005

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
2nd Battalion

TenCentFang posted:

That episode confused the hell out of me for this reason. Or maybe it's from me never having been around rich people? It was just so weird and alien I had a hard time connecting any of it to reality.

There's a lot of late King of the Hill like that, where it seems like they're lampooning some political or social trend, but it's hard to tell what exactly. These aren't episodes that didn't age well, they were just never that good. "Tears of an Inflatable Clown" is another one, a school district official come to Bobby's school to make sure it's racially diverse, but he gets there and sees that it already is and somehow that's a problem?? :confused: Those episodes always felt like a fever dream from my racist, drunk uncle.

And while we're on the subject of Mike Judge, I recently watched the Beavis and Butthead on Hulu and I'm shocked at how well it aged. I guess there's something timeless in two idiots going around and making life hell for each other/everyone else.

SneezeOfTheDecade
Feb 6, 2011

gettin' covid all
over your posts

Rambling Robot posted:

Do you remember what episode it was?

I dunno about cameo appearances, but Season 10, Episode 5 "Back to the Pilot" has Brian and Stewie traveling back to January 31, 1999 and commenting on the style changes since then. (I just watched it; I don't actually like Family Guy but it's a surprisingly solid episode except for a math error late in the episode that ruins a joke.)

married but discreet
May 7, 2005


Taco Defender

Sheriff posted:


I know The Simpsons has been brought up a lot in this thread, but I'm trying to watch the entire series, including the lovely later seasons (why? I hate myself), and there's two pretty offensive anti-trans jokes in two consecutive episodes at the end of season 12. These aired in May of 1999.


*in extremely comic book guy voice* It's season 10

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Besesoth posted:

(I just watched it; I don't actually like Family Guy but it's a surprisingly solid episode except for a math error late in the episode that ruins a joke.)

Imo, Family Guy and South Park are both extremely hit or miss. I can enjoy episodes as recent as the current season, but if an episode is bad, it really fuckin sucks.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

El Estrago Bonito posted:

Daria, as far as loosely Mike Judge associated things go, has held up remarkably well somehow. The final episode ("Boxing Daria") is maybe some of the best TV ever made for teenagers ever.

Pretty sure Judge's involvement began and ended with him signing off the rights to the character.

knife_of_justice
Aug 12, 2007

103 and still BITCHIN'

Besesoth posted:

I dunno about cameo appearances, but Season 10, Episode 5 "Back to the Pilot" has Brian and Stewie traveling back to January 31, 1999 and commenting on the style changes since then. (I just watched it; I don't actually like Family Guy but it's a surprisingly solid episode except for a math error late in the episode that ruins a joke.)

The 'drink til she's hot' guys appear again at the very end of the episode. Described in a tongue-in-cheek way as 'the gang we all know and love' despite never appearing since the pilot.

Aesop Poprock
Oct 21, 2008


Grimey Drawer

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I'm not sure if the sopranos episode about columbus day was ever relevant but it sure seems silly now. Definitely a standout in terms of "wtf were they thinking with this oe".

It was the absolute worst episode of the entire series

Aesop Poprock
Oct 21, 2008


Grimey Drawer

Ariong posted:

Wow, that's really really really bad. What's really hosed up about it is that it's not just about trans people existing, it is specifically framing the idea of finding a trans person sexually attractive to be more repulsive than the idea of wearing a corpse tux or owning a piss boat. Haha, you thought these were pretty ladies when they're actually just - god, I can't even finish that. I'm actually a little bit angry.

Man, can you imagine being someone who helped write that one and then coming back to it later? You would cringe yourself into a puddle. At least, you would if you weren't a turd.

What's really sad is I thought that was hilarious when I was a kid cause there's no possible way I could have known what prejudice against trans people was like

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I'm not sure if the sopranos episode about columbus day was ever relevant but it sure seems silly now. Definitely a standout in terms of "wtf were they thinking with this oe".

Italian Americans getting self-righteous about being a persecuted minority is downright quaint now that we have people declaring that the Irish have it just as bad as black people including slavery.

It reminds me that there was an episode of the kids edutainment cartoon Histeria that was pulled because Catholics cried persecution when they did a sketch about the Spanish Inquisition.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxBAeQA5GyE

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

Aesop Poprock posted:

What's really sad is I thought that was hilarious when I was a kid cause there's no possible way I could have known what prejudice against trans people was like

I mean I'm trans and at the time I thought it was funny. Most of us were ignorant about it then.

Gaunab
Feb 13, 2012
LUFTHANSA YOU FUCKING DICKWEASEL
I want a remake of Revenge of the Nerds where it starts out as a comedy and slowly becomes a court drama about the nerds being tried for their sex crimes.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Gaunab posted:

I want a remake of Revenge of the Nerds where it starts out as a comedy and slowly becomes a court drama about the nerds being tried for their sex crimes.

https://youtu.be/g9D3FQlekrM

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Gaunab posted:

I want a remake of Revenge of the Nerds where it starts out as a comedy and slowly becomes a court drama about the nerds being tried for their sex crimes.

Goddamn those nerds were rapey.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Speaking of sex offenders, the Pedofinder General cartoons, while amusing, have aged hilariously poorly given the whole Operation Yewtree dealio, and ongoing crises of pedophile rings at every level of society the authorities seem conditioned to ignore.

Sarcopenia
May 14, 2014
Don't go back and watch old episodes of Law and Order SVU unless you enjoy a barrage of T slurs and general transphobia. The handling of male victims is also really terrible.
But weirdly enough there were a lot more Asian actors roaming around. I guess they didn't find that necessary after they got BD Wong's fine rear end on the show.









:doink:

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax
It used to be that having a character be queer or trans was a cheap and easy way of making them evil. Now it's a cheap and easy way of making them complicated.

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

Inescapable Duck posted:

Speaking of sex offenders, the Pedofinder General cartoons, while amusing, have aged hilariously poorly given the whole Operation Yewtree dealio, and ongoing crises of pedophile rings at every level of society the authorities seem conditioned to ignore.

They can still apply. At the time the cartoons were made, there really was a ridiculous pedophile scare that failed to get any of the countless actual pedophiles lurking under the surface. A witch hunt is still a witch hunt even if there's an actual witch no one notices. Really, it makes the witch hunt worse. It helps no one but the witches who are usually even in charge of the drat thing. Even when it's over, it's that much more difficult to nab them because everyone assumes it's crying wolf.

Essentially, a culture that jumps into a frenzy to accuse each other of witchery isn't mutually exclusive with a culture that harbors witches by the truckload. You can say "wow that's a dumbfuck reason to accuse someone" as well as "but we've got all these famous powerful people raping kids, could we do something about that, please?"

TenCentFang has a new favorite as of 16:22 on Sep 27, 2017

normal-ass vampire
Feb 14, 2011

Sarcopenia posted:

Don't go back and watch old episodes of Law and Order SVU unless you enjoy a barrage of T slurs and general transphobia. The handling of male victims is also really terrible.
But weirdly enough there were a lot more Asian actors roaming around. I guess they didn't find that necessary after they got BD Wong's fine rear end on the show.









:doink:

Yeah I recently rewatched some old episodes of SVU and this really stuck out. It was jarring how they were overall surprisingly respectful towards gay characters considering when those episodes were made, then would turn around and call trans characters by the wrong name/gender and casually drop slurs at them like it’s nothing. I didn’t remember any of that stuff, probably because I was a dumb kid when I first watched the show and was only barely aware of trans people at all.

Sarcopenia
May 14, 2014

Cradle to the Grape posted:

Yeah I recently rewatched some old episodes of SVU and this really stuck out. It was jarring how they were overall surprisingly respectful towards gay characters considering when those episodes were made, then would turn around and call trans characters by the wrong name/gender and casually drop slurs at them like it’s nothing. I didn’t remember any of that stuff, probably because I was a dumb kid when I first watched the show and was only barely aware of trans people at all.

My jaw hit the floor when I first heard the word "tranny" casually said by Olivia Benson. It's jarring when you know that's literally how trans women are still treated by police today while trans sexworkers are the most endangered people out on the streetsh.
Plus munch's misogynist ex wife :biotruths: talk that we are supposed to find endearing and not horrifyingly off putting.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
basically any episode of political thrillers where the idea that one big dramatic reveal/hot mic comment is something everyone is terrified of being a part of was already built in the weird West Wing bubble of every debate being calm and rational people using their own logic to hoist the petard of their foes, but now it seems almost like a joke.

Like, I forgot which of the scandal knockoffs it was but I watched a rerun of a show just a year or two old where the big 'you just got politic'd' moment was they found a clip of some lawmaker yelling at his wife and calling her a bitch. This was already dated as hell just with the basic idea that that scandal would sink someone rather than just be a couple days of awkward news, but in a post 'actually as a conservative christian I LIKE the guy who casually talked about grabbing strangers by the pussy with the dumbest person named Bush in America' world it could pass for satire.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light
A general question for all:

Does a show having a few episodes that are now considered offensive affect your enjoyment of that show as a whole?

A few years ago, I got into a discussion about Get Smart for some reason. I liked the show, but am now a racist, apparently, because there was an episode where Smart dressed up as a stereotypical Native American.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Mister Kingdom posted:

A general question for all:

Does a show having a few episodes that are now considered offensive affect your enjoyment of that show as a whole?

A few years ago, I got into a discussion about Get Smart for some reason. I liked the show, but am now a racist, apparently, because there was an episode where Smart dressed up as a stereotypical Native American.

No. At least, not always. Much of MASH, All in the Family, and TOS Trek is sexist or otherwise offensive by today's standards but they all ranged from loving hella progressive to scandalously subversive for their time and they all remain excellent now as long as you have some perspective and context.

More offensive is something like the Andy Griffith show where there wasn't overt racism simply because they erased minorites from existence rather than deal with Injustice.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Mister Kingdom posted:

A general question for all:

Does a show having a few episodes that are now considered offensive affect your enjoyment of that show as a whole?

No, not really. There's plenty of things that are unarguably offensive and which I wouldn't dream of trying to defend which nonetheless don't really offend me.

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo
I mentioned it before, but it got a bit harder to watch Dragnet when after an unfortunate comment about homosexuality, and of all decades since the show aired it's more cringy than ever how far it bends over backwards to make the police look saintly in any conflict with civilians.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure the original Twilight Zone is perfect.

TheKennedys
Sep 23, 2006

By my hand, I will take you from this godforsaken internet

Mister Kingdom posted:

A general question for all:

Does a show having a few episodes that are now considered offensive affect your enjoyment of that show as a whole?

A few years ago, I got into a discussion about Get Smart for some reason. I liked the show, but am now a racist, apparently, because there was an episode where Smart dressed up as a stereotypical Native American.

I loving love MASH to this day despite it being horrifyingly 70s in literally every way

Klinger wasn't really a transvestite but he was possibly the most progressive portrayal of trans* anything on TV at the time though

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
yea not much has destroyed my entire enjoyment of a show but there for sure are episodes I skip when I binge now. Like has been brought up a bunch, King of the Hill is about my favorite animated show but I have zero interest in watching stuff like "Heh the ADA sure is a pain in the rear end for us small business owners, making us accept these disgusting junkies who are all scumbags and all" again.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug
3rd rock from the Sun had an episode where Sally was mistaken for a cross dresser that didn't age great, but they generally were pretty decent about not making the jokes about her being confused about gender roles mean or bigoted. Usually it was just making fun of gender roles themselves. That show is still hilarious.

RC and Moon Pie
May 5, 2011

The Bloop posted:


More offensive is something like the Andy Griffith show where there wasn't overt racism simply because they erased minorites from existence rather than deal with Injustice.

It's a bit more complex. Griffith certainly didn't do all he could have done.

There were African-American extras on the Andy Griffith Show. There was one black actor with a speaking part: Rockne Tarkington, who played Opie's football coach in a later, color episode. Opie thinks he has to choose between football and piano and Tarkington shows him he can do both.

Griffith was questioned at the time. He said that prominent black citizens simply wouldn't exist in the Andy Taylor world. To an extent, that would have been true. Griffith said that if Mayberry had a black doctor, no white citizen would have used him. And they wouldn't. That said, realism stopped with the Andy Griffith Show with the jail key left on the hook between the cells and the kookiness of the town in the color episodes. Of course, there could have easily been more interaction with black citizens in Mayberry on the show.

The Andy Griffith Show was a mix of 1930s nostalgia in a 1960s setting. The show only once mentioned Vietnam, too, and that was in passing. There was a reference to marijuana. The black and white episodes were almost entirely devoid of pop culture and the color ones didn't get specific about pop culture, except for a ridiculous computer dating episode. CBS' rural shows had no intention of changing the world and that's ultimately what killed all of them. CBS saw where the wind was blowing and canceled a heap of them..

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

RC and Moon Pie posted:

CBS saw where the wind was blowing and canceled a heap of them..

At that really worked out for the best. The vast majority of 60s sitcoms were stagnant. How many times could you handle the characters doing the exact thing over and over again? Gilligan loving up a rescue attempt. Darrin mouthing off to one of Samantha's relatives and getting turned into god-knows-what.

At least a lot of the shows that would follow had some character development.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
They replaced most of them with Aaron Spelling shows, didn't they?

Instant Sunrise
Apr 12, 2007


The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

RC and Moon Pie posted:

It's a bit more complex. Griffith certainly didn't do all he could have done.

There were African-American extras on the Andy Griffith Show. There was one black actor with a speaking part: Rockne Tarkington, who played Opie's football coach in a later, color episode. Opie thinks he has to choose between football and piano and Tarkington shows him he can do both.

Griffith was questioned at the time. He said that prominent black citizens simply wouldn't exist in the Andy Taylor world. To an extent, that would have been true. Griffith said that if Mayberry had a black doctor, no white citizen would have used him. And they wouldn't. That said, realism stopped with the Andy Griffith Show with the jail key left on the hook between the cells and the kookiness of the town in the color episodes. Of course, there could have easily been more interaction with black citizens in Mayberry on the show.

The Andy Griffith Show was a mix of 1930s nostalgia in a 1960s setting. The show only once mentioned Vietnam, too, and that was in passing. There was a reference to marijuana. The black and white episodes were almost entirely devoid of pop culture and the color ones didn't get specific about pop culture, except for a ridiculous computer dating episode. CBS' rural shows had no intention of changing the world and that's ultimately what killed all of them. CBS saw where the wind was blowing and canceled a heap of them..

The Andy Griffith spinoff Gomer Pyle USMC was incredibly dated right from the start. It came out in the midst of the Vietnam war and just it didn't acknowledge that at all, despite being set on a Marine Corps base.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Mister Kingdom posted:

A few years ago, I got into a discussion about Get Smart for some reason. I liked the show, but am now a racist, apparently, because there was an episode where Smart dressed up as a stereotypical Native American.

Just because someone criticises the content of a show you like that doesn't mean they're criticising you. And similarly you can totally enjoy something and even think that it is good overall but still dislike or criticize certain parts of it.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Guy Mann posted:

Just because someone criticises the content of a show you like that doesn't mean they're criticising you. And similarly you can totally enjoy something and even think that it is good overall but still dislike or criticize certain parts of it.

Oh no, a person actually straight up called me a racist just for that one episode.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Wheat Loaf posted:

They replaced most of them with Aaron Spelling shows, didn't they?

Spelling was more a late 70s - early 80s guy.

Norman Lear was the big early-mid 70s genius.

TenCentFang
Sep 5, 2017

by Nyc_Tattoo

RC and Moon Pie posted:

Griffith was questioned at the time. He said that prominent black citizens simply wouldn't exist in the Andy Taylor world. To an extent, that would have been true. Griffith said that if Mayberry had a black doctor, no white citizen would have used him.

It's weird he basically admitted all the fun wacky characters on the show were horrible racists.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Guy Mann posted:

Italian Americans getting self-righteous about being a persecuted minority is downright quaint now that we have people declaring that the Irish have it just as bad as black people including slavery.



Not to say that this is true but anti-Irish prejudice was pretty widespread and rabid:



However their situation had far more in common with modern views towards Hispanic immigrants (many of whom would probably be considered white if it weren't for the fact that they are immigrants because whiteness is a social construct) than it had with the much more systemic oppression of black people. In Britain they were viewed differently as they were a savage and allegedly moon worshiping native people that the British were just trying to civilize just like the 'Wild Injuns' by taking all their poo poo and trying to wipe out their culture.

The Irish were already white by the time Italians started arriving in large numbers in the 1900s. So much so that Irish mobsters in New York formed the White Hand gang to fight their non-white Italian colleagues (and also a lot of random Italians).

When people talk about how the Irish were slaves they mean they some were indentured servants which a bit like slavery except you had some actual rights since you weren't property, and you would probably be able to work yourself out of it in a few years. Which is a bit like saying that flying in an airplane makes you a astronaut since both airplanes and spaceshuttles go really high up.

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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
Yea anti-Italian/Irish/etc racism was absolutely a thing that destroyed people but it was generations ago and almost always boiled down to nationalist anti-immigrant stuff rather than genuine 'everyone from Italy is a goddamn savage' whenever it happened. The whole thing of people whining about anti-Columbus stuff being 'Irish oppression' is just silly

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