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Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Thanks, thread. You got me interested in the show and I enjoyed the first episode a lot more than I thought I would.

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precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Al Borland Corp. posted:

I hope my prediction is correct that he's the dumbest of the robot people and that's why they sent him to the Union.

Yeah that's probably what it's gonna be.

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016

precision posted:

Yeah that's probably what it's gonna be.

So he's a trailer park white supremacist?

Hot Dog Day #82
Jul 5, 2003

Soiled Meat

r.y.f.s.o. posted:

I must be a lovely ally because ep 3 was not the fictional equivalent of shoveling dead trans people into a quantum incinerator that the reviews had described.

I was genuinely surprised when the episode ended like it did, years of watching Star Trek had prepared me for good old fashioned moralizing at the end. I was pleasantly surprised with the finale and hopefully defying expectations like that l becomes something Orville does well going forward.

r.y.f.s.o.
Mar 1, 2003
classically trained
I thought it was a nice change and an interesting twist too.

It was a bit hamhanded and fuzzy in its treatment of the topic but for a show made by a guy whose favorite joke topics used to be (?) dicks, weed and american pop culture, I can forgive those flaws.

Mostly it feels like Macfarlane cares and wants to do well by TNG's original spirit and I don't expect them to nail it out the gates. I'm excited to see where it goes.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

mycomancy posted:

So he's a trailer park white supremacist?

You will find me to be by far the best poster in this thread.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
I know he didn't write it but Seth did tacitly sign off on the horrible Quagmire's Dad poo poo and, while this episode didn't really address trans issues at all, I feel like it's a bit of a mea culpa on his part, and if so, good on him.

Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Eiba posted:

Alternately, Discovery is a visually impressive look at darkertimes in the Star Trek world that promises to show the utopian ideals of the series [super]upheld in a situation where doing so is difficult [super]for the characters...:words:

Jewel Repetition fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Sep 28, 2017

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.
3rd episode isn't really working for me because I just can't get over how dumb it is that you have a mono-sex species and its still male. That makes no drat sense. And then one of them is spontaneously born female, like they were male/female all along, but they reproduce male-male... Its like the writers have never heard of evolution. There's no reason why an alien species couldn't just have one gender, or three. And if they only had one gender, they would be neither male nor female. Its just dumb.

And using Rudolph as a teachable moment is so cheesy. Its supposed to be funny but its just dumb. And most of the episode was just "lol gay klingons" which isn't really a joke either.

I don't know if they were trying to be pro or anti trans, but I do know this episode was a huge dumb waste of time.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY
I thought the Tale of Rudolph was pretty funny.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


I just have missed all the "gay lol" jokes.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Al Borland Corp. posted:

I just have missed all the "gay lol" jokes.

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit that it thought it was funny. Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way, with no humor at all? Bold move.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010

Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit that it thought it was funny. Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way, with no humor at all? Bold move.

They didn't play up the scenes between the two as comedy at all.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Zaphod42 posted:

3rd episode isn't really working for me because I just can't get over how dumb it is that you have a mono-sex species and its still male. That makes no drat sense. And then one of them is spontaneously born female, like they were male/female all along, but they reproduce male-male... Its like the writers have never heard of evolution. There's no reason why an alien species couldn't just have one gender, or three. And if they only had one gender, they would be neither male nor female. Its just dumb.


wow

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit that it thought it was funny. Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way, with no humor at all? Bold move.

Maybe don't poo poo up this thread too with your trolling or complete vapid idiocy or whichever or both

Zonko_T.M.
Jul 1, 2007

I'm not here to fuck spiders!

I really liked this episode and I thought the jokes felt a lot smoother and made me laugh a lot more without distracting me from the actual story.

I really want Isaac to be the equivalent of a hick from the robot planet. That'd be a great twist.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit that it thought it was funny. Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way, with no humor at all? Bold move.

I think this is actually the dumbest post this thread has seen about this episode.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit that it thought it was funny. Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way, with no humor at all? Bold move.

the episode had nothing to do with trans people


Regy Rusty posted:

I think this is actually the dumbest post this thread has seen about this episode.

that's a bold statement friend.

and also, yeah. yeah it is.

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

Zaphod42 posted:

3rd episode isn't really working for me because I just can't get over how dumb it is that you have a mono-sex species and its still male. That makes no drat sense. And then one of them is spontaneously born female, like they were male/female all along, but they reproduce male-male... Its like the writers have never heard of evolution. There's no reason why an alien species couldn't just have one gender, or three. And if they only had one gender, they would be neither male nor female. Its just dumb.

And using Rudolph as a teachable moment is so cheesy. Its supposed to be funny but its just dumb. And most of the episode was just "lol gay klingons" which isn't really a joke either.

I don't know if they were trying to be pro or anti trans, but I do know this episode was a huge dumb waste of time.

Save it for your job at i09

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Stop projecting? That scene is meant to be completely serious.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Zaphod42 posted:

Its like the writers have never heard of evolution. There's no reason why an alien species couldn't just have one gender, or three. And if they only had one gender, they would be neither male nor female. Its just dumb.

As you said, evolution. What if they evolved out of being multi-gender?


Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

As you said, they weren't jokes. This is a comedy/drama.


quote:

Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way

They did not discuss trans people.

I don't think you saw the episode.

Edit: I think MacFarlane's involvement is drawing out a lot of toxicity-loving weirdos.

Accretionist fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Sep 28, 2017

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Accretionist posted:

They did not discuss trans people.

I don't think you saw the episode.

They literally called it a "sex change". The one guy accused his partner of lying to him when he didn't share that he was born female.

It was definitely trying to be progressive but it hosed it up by being too out of touch.

Accretionist posted:

Edit: I think MacFarlane's involvement is drawing out a lot of toxicity-loving weirdos.

That's a weak dismissal. Look at my posting history. I was relieved the show was more trek than discovery and thought it was decently funny if a bit low brow. I don't "love toxicity" but this episode was dumb.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 28, 2017

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Btw your biological objections to the Moklins are worthless hth.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Zaphod42 posted:

They literally called it a "sex change"

Which should make you think, "genocide." They're a post-genocide society. They genocided womankind and, "conform," the odd flareup. Maclus is, in part, "What if Hitler won?"

If you want overlap with LGBT issues, I've read that Iran's big on giving gay men sex changes. I'm sure you can find an angle there

quote:

That's a weak dismissal. Look at my posting history. I was relieved the show was more trek than discovery and thought it was decently funny if a bit low brow. I don't "love toxicity" but this episode was dumb.

I still don't believe either you or whoever got you fired up saw the episode

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Lol @ applying Earth:biotruths:to aliens. You guys aren't even right for earth. Sex selection mechanisms break down often enough over evolutionary time that Earth animals have five different sex selection mechanisms that I've heard of. And not like flat worms either. There's a mammal with no sex chromosomes I think it's some kind of shrew. There are lizards that only have male offspring occasionally. Works out okay I guess.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES
Not to mention, they could've picked up the concept from alien contact alone.

Zaphod, your criticisms read like they came from a reviewer who was tasked with writing a hit-piece based on screenshots and an episode description.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Accretionist posted:

Zaphod, your criticisms read like they came from a reviewer who was tasked with writing a hit-piece based on screenshots and an episode description.

Just keep on parroting that same message dude... Post it 3 times in a row and it becomes true! Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.

Interesting that you ignore the points I bring up and just keep saying "you didn't watch it!". Did you watch it? Acting like trans people are "tricking" people into believing a lie is a very pervasive prejudice.

RC Cola
Aug 1, 2011

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Watched the first episode. Like it so far. Better than discovery imo

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Maybe the crew of the Discovery were also day drunk would explain some things.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice
I might be the only one wondering this, but is it possible that the live fire zone when they were landing on Moclus was intentional? Somebody earlier in the thread had said something about how it was a symbol of toxic masculinity on the part of the Moclans, but the first thing that came into my head was, "Oops, sorry we completely accidentally shot down the shuttle carrying the people who were going to put one of our society's most basic values on trial. Guess we won't have to have the hearing after all and we can all forget about it."

Or was that just me?

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Arglebargle III posted:

There's a mammal with no sex chromosomes I think it's some kind of shrew.
Well, sort of, they have mammalian X chromosomes, but that's all they have, as in both males and females have a single X chromosome and we have no idea what sex determination system they use. Also it's a vole. There's a shrew that uses X0 determination (XX is female, X alone is male).
Also Platypi have ten sex determination chromosomes.

This has been your random biology derail.

Zaphod42 posted:

Did you watch it? Acting like trans people are "tricking" people into believing a lie is a very pervasive prejudice.

Yes, I did. Klyden didn't find out until he was an adult (and relatively recently within the timeframe of the show) within the context of the show he's treated like a child who was born intersex and surgically assigned at birth. There was never a time where Klyden didn't think of himself as male growing up. Bortus is angry with Klyden not because he "lied" about being male, but that he felt that he needed to hide the truth of his past once he discovered it.

Epicurius posted:

I might be the only one wondering this, but is it possible that the live fire zone when they were landing on Moclus was intentional? Somebody earlier in the thread had said something about how it was a symbol of toxic masculinity on the part of the Moclans, but the first thing that came into my head was, "Oops, sorry we completely accidentally shot down the shuttle carrying the people who were going to put one of our society's most basic values on trial. Guess we won't have to have the hearing after all and we can all forget about it."

Or was that just me?

Oh yeah it was 100% intentional.

Kurieg fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Sep 28, 2017

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Zaphod42 posted:

Acting like trans people are "tricking" people into believing a lie is a very pervasive prejudice.

The Moclans have a toxic culture that justifies wiping out women. They are portrayed as the villains of the episode. Why then do you think Bortus calling out his partner was shown as a good thing?

The post above mine is also a completely valid interpretation.

Frionnel fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Sep 28, 2017

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Zaphod42 posted:

Acting like trans people are "tricking" people into believing a lie is a very pervasive prejudice.

What the gently caress is this

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Frionnel posted:

The Moclans have a toxic culture that justifies wiping out women. They are portrayed as the villains of the episode. Why then do you think Bortus calling out his partner was shown as a good thing?

The post above mine is also a completely valid interpretation.

And it ends with them... doing it anyways, even though the humans were outraged the whole time and they gave the big speech about how women matter and the Moklan bible was written by a woman. Which is great in a south park "gently caress the moral of the story" way I guess, like lots of goons cheered, but I dunno you've gotta kinda have some "gently caress political correctness" attitude to really get off on that, and there's too many lovely portrayals of LGBT people right now, sorry but you don't really need that.

And the whole tough girl boxes guy to show girls can be tough... its all just like really old fashioned and out of touch.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

Zaphod42 posted:

Like I said, they weren't really jokes. Just wow, how kooky is it that these two male klingon dudes are arguing about their child and how sensitive they are to each other.

Others have said something similar, but to you a healthy relationship is kooky or a joke? They're a married couple who have differences and arguments, and still treat each other with respect and love; how you can treat that as a form of failed humor is just beyond me.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

turn left hillary!! noo posted:

Others have said something similar, but to you a healthy relationship is kooky or a joke? They're a married couple who have differences and arguments, and still treat each other with respect and love; how you can treat that as a form of failed humor is just beyond me.

Try reading the line after that one that you intentionally edited out. Stop trying to intentionally misinterpret what I said.

Zaphod42 posted:

Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit that it thought it was funny. Maybe they just wanted to talk about trans people for an hour in a really ham-fisted way, with no humor at all? Bold move.

Episode 1 and 2 had lots of jokes. Episode 3 other than Norm Macdonald's 2 minutes just had weird gender stuff.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo
The episode had literally nothing to do with transgender rights. The closest parallel that can be drawn to humanity is intersex babies.

[Edit: the fact that so many critics and some posters thought that this episode was about something it isn't wants me to sit everyone down and force them to take a media analysis college course, goddam]

asecondduck fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Sep 28, 2017

r.y.f.s.o.
Mar 1, 2003
classically trained

Epicurius posted:

I might be the only one wondering this, but is it possible that the live fire zone when they were landing on Moclus was intentional? Somebody earlier in the thread had said something about how it was a symbol of toxic masculinity on the part of the Moclans, but the first thing that came into my head was, "Oops, sorry we completely accidentally shot down the shuttle carrying the people who were going to put one of our society's most basic values on trial. Guess we won't have to have the hearing after all and we can all forget about it."

Or was that just me?

No, I think it was 100% meant to convey that their meddling was not welcome, and ties into the central idea of the episode - the problems with imposing human mores onto an alien civilization, no matter how abhorrent we may find them.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Zaphod42 posted:

Episode 3 other than Norm Macdonald's 2 minutes just had weird gender stuff.

"Feminism is weird gender stuff," said man who totally watched the episode he's criticizing.

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r.y.f.s.o.
Mar 1, 2003
classically trained

Zaphod42 posted:

Try reading the line after that one that you intentionally edited out. Stop trying to intentionally misinterpret what I said.

The relationship issues between the Moclans was played 100% straight, without a hint of playing their monogender status as the butt of the joke, in any way.

I don't think a single person in this thread has in any way inferred the "lol gay" aspect, in intent or execution, besides yourself.

What I'm saying is that your read on this is not great.

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