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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI
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Sep 28, 2017 03:10
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"Just don't die, 'cause you're not gonna win." THE VIETNAM WAR EPISODE 9: “A Disrespectful Loyalty” (May 1970-March 1973) - Watch it here "South Vietnamese forces fighting on their own in Laos suffer a terrible defeat. Massive U.S. airpower makes the difference in halting an unprecedented North Vietnamese offensive. After being re-elected in a landslide, Nixon announces Hanoi has agreed to a peace deal. American prisoners of war will finally come home – to a bitterly divided country."  ------------ Still more conflict as the U.S. involvement winds down; more bombing campaigns, more failed offensives from the North, and back home the U.S. continues to fray at the edges. Vietnam vets against the war throwing their medals back was pretty moving, and the Pentagon Papers leak. Yet another historic photo of misery in the photo of the napalm strike on civilians; glad to hear she survived. Nixon continues to be a motherfucker, paranoid of everyone because he knows he's a motherfucker and doesn't want everyone else to know it, leading to Watergate; despite it all he trounces McGovern who it appears would also have been a fucker except he was too incompetent to pull it off. Finally, mercifully at the end of this episode, the U.S. returns POWs home and the military leaves; seeing the POWs come home was very bittersweet given the death toll though. March 29, 1973: 58,126 Americans killed; over 2 Million Vietnamese killed. We've got one more episode to go, and given that this era has been full of mistakes and bad decisions (and innocent people suffering for it) I am sure more are on the way.
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Sep 28, 2017 04:11
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I'm just into the second episode of Vietnam now. It's pretty amazing. The only shortcoming to me is that the voice of the basic narrator isn't as good as that of McNeil, Robards, Holbrook etc. in the Civil War series (and whoever did the voice of Mary Chestnut), but of course most of those were people playing roles, when we have live interviews with the surviving principals and tons and tons of actual film and high quality photos. The soundtrack is amazing. The detail that the history and background of the conflict including the French colonial era and the transition and various misjudgments and fuckups that led us into the quagmire is really well presented, and thorough as hell.
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Sep 28, 2017 04:39
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Zwabu posted:The soundtrack is amazing. And I like the narrator. So there.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:53
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magnificent7 posted:The way they sync some of the song hits to gunshots or cannons or blasts - just enough to impact the message but not enough to flex a steroid muscle - what a fantastic thing. Agree on both counts. Just finished episode 8 and gently caress
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Sep 28, 2017 16:38
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magnificent7 posted:The way they sync some of the song hits to gunshots or cannons or blasts - just enough to impact the message but not enough to flex a steroid muscle - what a fantastic thing. This seems to be a trend in recent documentaries and I frankly hate it. Like the image Die after his execution speaks for itself, there's no reason to stick the sound of a gunshot over the top of it as though the viewer can't already tell what's happened.
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Sep 28, 2017 18:37
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KoRMaK posted:Vietnam PBS docu is this for 18 hours Reznor reusing a load of cues from his previous soundtrack has kind of put me off this film because it makes the whole act of writing music for films seem a little hollow to me. I recall when The Social Network came out people raving about the music matched up so perfectly to images of Zuckerberg moping around Harvard. Now the same music apparently sounds excellent over footage of America's forays into Vietnam. How convenient.
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Sep 28, 2017 18:57
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Seems odd to think that music can't work well in different contexts.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:16
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Trent should have made 18 hours of new music for this. I demand nothing less. I think this is his most complete score. I've liked the others but they often felt like fragments of songs rather than complete pieces, these songs all feel fleshed out and finished. I'm also pretty interested in seeing how songs sync up and work with different visuals, so re-contextualizing older pieces is good.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:22
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Random thought but the soundtrack is also the only part of the film which feels oddly partial. The filmmakers went out of their way to be as honset about what happened as they could be and put as many viewpoints as they could into it but most of the contemporary music in the film can be associated with the protest movement. There's no music from the opposite end of things like The Ballad of the Green Berets or Keith Everett's Conscientious Objectors.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:59
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As an aside, I am continually amazed that Ballad of the Green Berets was like, a Billboard topping hit.
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Sep 28, 2017 21:22
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:As an aside, I am continually amazed that Ballad of the Green Berets was like, a Billboard topping hit. Its hosed up poo poo and a year before Barry McGuire and Eve of Destruction got blocked on air waves, used as an example of what was wrong with Americas youth, and accused of aiding enemies in Vietnam.
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Sep 28, 2017 21:59
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cloudchamber posted:There's no music from the opposite end of things I think you missed Okie from Muskogee. But by and large it was: Anti-war songs = good Pro-War songs = bad To be fair, there are famous anti-war songs missing too. One Tin Soldier is a pretty glaring example.
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Sep 29, 2017 01:48
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"Saigon signing off." THE VIETNAM WAR EPISODE 10: “The Weight of Memory” (March 1973-Onward) - Watch it here "While the Watergate scandal rivets Americans’ attention and forces President Nixon to resign, the Vietnamese continue to savage one another in a brutal civil war. When hundreds of thousands of North Vietnamese troops pour into the south, Saigon descends rapidly into chaos and collapses. For the next 40 years, Americans and Vietnamese from all sides search for healing and reconciliation." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_a46WJ1viA ------------ The Vietnam War is finally over. But in so many ways, and for so many people, it's not over; the impacts of it ripple through communities and lives and on into the future. I think the final episode left me feeling hopeful; despite the tragedy of it all, the destruction, the lost lives, the division, the suffering and all the negative impacts that still show up today; that many people it seems did learn lessons from the war that they are trying to pass on. In hundreds of years that sort of direct impact will fade, but hopefully the lessons learned will lead to a more peaceful world. I really want to visit the memorial now. Taking the series as a whole, The Vietnam War is a large undertaking just to watch. Many nights these past two weeks I settled in knowing two hours would amount to a lot of my free time that night. It covers such a broad swath of recent history from so many perspectives that it would've been easy to have 18 hours feel bogged down. Instead it leaves me wanting to know more still, which I think is quite a feat. My only qualms with the production were with some overused audio through the series, but that's such a minor nitpick for what is otherwise a remarkable documentary. Dedicate time to watch this, alone if you must but with others if you can. One or two episodes a week would probably be really good pacing because it is a lot to take in, and even more to discuss. Turn off your phone, block out the time, and just take it all in. It's worth it.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:13
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Goddamn episode 9 made me real mad that Kerry lost the election
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Sep 29, 2017 02:33
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Asnorban posted:Trent should have made 18 hours of new music for this. I demand nothing less. Wait, is this actually an original score? I thought it was just Ghosts I-IV added to video. Not that this is strictly a bad thing: Ghosts I-IV is an album that doesn't really stand on its own despite having a lot of tracks that work very well as background/mood music, but I didn't notice much that was new material.
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Sep 29, 2017 04:47
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Whoa, all the NVA footage is in black and white. USA footage is in color. Wierd intersection about technology send story telling device there.
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Sep 29, 2017 04:51
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It seems like some of it is original (the more ambient stuff) but most of it is rehashed NIN material. On one end it feels weird recognizing the music, but on the other end: It fits.
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Sep 29, 2017 04:52
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:Wait, is this actually an original score? I thought it was just Ghosts I-IV added to video. There's a certain nin guitar phrase, in a eukelele, that I swear I heard on one of the halo remixes between downward spiral and the fragile, but I can't find it and I've taken to relistening to the whole catalog including ghosts Ghosts was basically made for pbs/free use/mit open source license. Listen to it and you realize it's an open source project
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Sep 29, 2017 04:54
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Jehde posted:It seems like some of it is original (the more ambient stuff) but most of it is rehashed NIN material. On one end it feels weird recognizing the music, but on the other end: It fits. It's like the culmination of what nin was doing. Political, viseral, unturning, audio and visual. It's kind of nice to see the realization of a career like this. Same with the nin Adam Curtis crossover
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Sep 29, 2017 04:56
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Let's just all try and forget Trent's collaboration album Niggy Tardust. God that was bad.
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Sep 29, 2017 05:14
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precision posted:Let's just all try and forget Trent's collaboration album Niggy Tardust. God that was bad. Lol makes this more funny https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/evden7/trent-reznor-doesnt-get-drake
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Sep 29, 2017 05:36
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Now I know why they called him "Tricky Dick".
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Sep 29, 2017 06:30
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KoRMaK posted:Lol makes this more funny Not to drag this derail out too much more but lol: quote:Secondly, though it's hardly surprising that the man who wrote "Closer" and essentially popularized the industrial genre isn't exactly bumping the top 40 during his commute Closer was a top 40 hit and has more in common with Drake than industrial music.
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Sep 29, 2017 07:38
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:Wait, is this actually an original score? I thought it was just Ghosts I-IV added to video. Yeah, it's 1h35 minutes long. I'm only on episode 4, but I'm definitely hearing significantly more of this score than Ghosts or other existing TRez work. The "Trent Reznor" sounds definitely bubble up in the mix more when I'm listening over my TV speakers, so I could see not thinking it was much new stuff if all you can hear are the piano coming through. Check out the score on it's own if you are a fan. It's up on Spotify.
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Sep 29, 2017 14:37
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precision posted:Not to drag this derail out too much more but lol: I'm pretty sure i read an interview way back where Trent cited Prince as the main musical inspiration behind Pretty Hate Machine and Downward Spiral. Closer is a white r&b song.
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Sep 29, 2017 15:51
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Trent cited Prince as the main musical inspiration behind Pretty Hate Machine and Downward Spiral. ps documentaries are good just keeping it all on track.
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Sep 29, 2017 17:38
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KoRMaK posted:There's a certain nin guitar phrase, in a eukelele, that I swear I heard on one of the halo remixes between downward spiral and the fragile, but I can't find it and I've taken to relistening to the whole catalog including ghosts Thing they kept using I think was the bit at the start of this track on Ghosts. No idea if that's what you're thinking of but here it is anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASFFsXL2Iqg
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Sep 29, 2017 17:59
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precision posted:Not to drag this derail out too much more but lol: Ye think so? I think not
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Sep 29, 2017 18:07
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:I'm pretty sure i read an interview way back where Trent cited Prince as the main musical inspiration behind Pretty Hate Machine and Downward Spiral. Trent's early inspirations were stuff like Bowie and Bauhaus, I've never heard him being associated with Prince before.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:14
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Mahoning posted:
That's probably true but Ballad of the Green Berets was the biggest selling single of 1966. It looks like quite a big thing to leave out given how comprehensive the series aims to be.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:18
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cloudchamber posted:Thing they kept using I think was the bit at the start of this track on Ghosts. No idea if that's what you're thinking of but here it is anyway. Yepppppp!!!! Mystery solved. Thank you very much for that.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:22
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cloudchamber posted:Trent's early inspirations were stuff like Bowie and Bauhaus, I've never heard him being associated with Prince before. Read the liner notes to Pretty Hate Machine (geez, kids these days). NIN has always had a funk and R&B vibe. edit: also, a quick visit to whosampled.com shows he's sampled Prince twice Lil Mama Im Sorry fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 18:35
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You're welcome. Inevitably that little riff has also shown up in some of Adam Curtis's work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxV3_bG1EHA (Plays right at the end after another track from Ghosts)
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Sep 29, 2017 18:36
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cloudchamber posted:That's probably true but Ballad of the Green Berets was the biggest selling single of 1966. It looks like quite a big thing to leave out given how comprehensive the series aims to be. John Lennon's Imagine is regarded in many circles as one of the greatest songs ever written and it was absent too.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:49
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I'm gonna put that fact in the 'Positives' pile.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:00
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ICHIBAHN posted:Ye think so? I think not Yeah I double taked real hard when I saw that line.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:06
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:I'm pretty sure i read an interview way back where Trent cited Prince as the main musical inspiration behind Pretty Hate Machine and Downward Spiral. Whether he said that or not (I remember that he did too) Prince is actually sampled on the album. e: oh you already said that, ha. But yeah in the mid 90s every club I went to played "Closer" right alongside Madonna and Prince, it is 100% a "white funk/pop" song precision fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 20:50
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:NIN has always had a funk and R&B vibe. Yeah, their backbeats have always been like, I dunno. New Wave? I've always found them super dancy, quite unlike their reputation would suggest.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:01
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Mahoning posted:John Lennon's Imagine is regarded in many circles as one of the greatest songs ever written and it was absent too. Maybe you can brush this fact aside as irrelevant but the awkward thing about most documentaries about Vietnam and the sixties is that they tend to focus on the iconic pop culture of the era which was predominantly against the war. This doesn't sit well with the fact that a large number of Americans, at times probably a majority, actually supported what the US was doing in South East Asia. Ballad of the Green Berets, a patriotic war song, sold out more copies than any of the counter culture tunes that feature in the documentary. It has massive social and cultural relevance to the film's subject. I think it is a mistake to have left it out.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:24
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