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Al Borland Corp. posted:It isn't a parody. Bortus and Klyden are not a parody of gay men played for laughs. They are just two gay alien husbands on TV. What the gently caress in their scenes made you think they were attempting to play it for laughs? Read the thread? We talked about this already, if you slow down and read my posts instead of jumping to conclusions. Maybe the fact that its a comedy show and episodes 1 and 2 were full of jokes? I did say explicitly that I did not find it funny, but I also don't see MacFarlane doing 2 episodes of comedy and then suddenly going "okay, next episode, no humor, we're just gonna get serious" I mean its about rubber mask dudes sitting on eggs, the big reveal is watching Rudolph the red-nosed Raindeer; the whole thing has this cheesy ham-fisted tone that makes it all seem really dumb. He goes from "We MUST make her a man!" to "We MUST leave her a woman!" in like 5 seconds. You can interpret that as being an intentional lampshade but I don't think its OUTRAGEOUS to think that they aren't being super aware on a dumb FOX show. I think the tone was messy and I don't think that's unreasonable. turn left hillary!! noo posted:I think you're still being influenced by your preconceptions of this as a Seth MacFarlane show, and that's what's preventing you from seeing it the way some of the rest of us do. CPColin posted:Fair enough. I feel like I'm giving them an appropriate amount of credit, which is convenient for me, because it let me enjoy the episode a whole lot! These are fair, reasonable responses from people who aren't jumping to conclusions. And I've been very receptive to them. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 18:56
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Brawnfire posted:I definitely enjoy the tone of the show more than the tone of the thread 
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Sep 28, 2017 19:04
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Zaphod42 posted:I did say explicitly that I did not find it funny, but I also don't see MacFarlane doing 2 episodes of comedy and then suddenly going "okay, next episode, no humor, we're just gonna get serious" He hasn't stopped making comedies at all. That episode was full of jokes. But it's not going to be 100% comedy all the time, this is something Seth MacFarlaned explicity stated in his interviews.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:04
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You idiot. A show can be a comedy without everything in the entire show being a joke. They were not lampshading depictions of gay men, they were just depicting gay men. The show is a comedy/drama. Like in Buffy when her mom got cancer were you sitting there saying "Why are they joking about cancer? That's a serious illness!"
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Sep 28, 2017 19:07
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Frionnel posted:He hasn't stopped making comedies at all. That episode was full of jokes. But it's not going to be 100% comedy all the time, this is something Seth MacFarlaned explicity stated in his interviews. That's definitely fair, and episodes 1 and 2 had some drama moments too. But I felt this one had basically no humor other than Norm's 2 minute sequence. Hence me thinking that the rest was being played for laughs. And in that same loving post the next line was me saying "or, I guess there was just no humor in the whole episode, but that doesn't seem like what Mcfarlane would do". You can say "hey dude, its mcfarlane but I think this episode was all intentionally a parody, which really changes how you interpret it" without saying "oh you must hate gay people". Goons are too willing to strawman somebody into some obviously-wrong attitude so they can dunk on them, even if they explicitly state "hey I don't mean ______ in case anybody is about to think that" Al Borland Corp. posted:Like in Buffy when her mom got cancer were you sitting there saying "Why are they joking about cancer? That's a serious illness!" If the doctor was played by Seth, he had a rubber face mask on while he gave her the diagnosis, and the episode ended with them trying some radical cure to save the mom only for the doctor to come out and go "she died!" and then cut to black... I would be confused, yeah. I also don't really think Buffy is a comedy even if it has some light moments, its primarily a drama. Its mostly action and building tension. Orville is definitely not. That's not to say it can't be dramatic, but just that they aren't necessarily in the best position to do poo poo like this. Meanwhile shows like Scrubs, Bojack Horseman, poo poo even Rick and Morty manage to be comedies with dramatic moments, but the dramatic moments are handled with care and land with real impact. Bojack can make jokes about abortion and it works because they're smart enough to make sure it reads properly. They subvert expectations and they do it in a way that really grips you and makes it very clear by the end what the message was even while being subtle during the episode. Orville just isn't that smart. Its dumb. Its simple stuff. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 19:10
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Zaphod42 posted:Dude, no. Accretionist is calling me a homophobe because I said the depiction of gay men was lacking? That's directly backwards. He's full of poo poo and should be told to gently caress off. He's just trolling to stir the pot. No, he’s calling you a homophobe because you looked at a depiction of a perfectly normal (in fact rather open and healthy) relationship between two same-gender people and said, this has got to be a joke. That may not be accurate or fair - to me this seems to be rooted in your refusal to believe that Seth MacFarlane could ever write something without lovely gay jokes in it. But without question your interpretation of that scene is way, way loving off.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:15
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You keep saying people are defending it by saying it is a parody or lampshading. Nobody is saying that. It is not a parody and not lampshading anything. It's just a dramatic scene with two actors who happen to be in full prosthetics. There were plenty of jokes in the episode. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell the difference between what scenes and dialogue were meant as jokes and which weren't. John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 19:19
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Gordon was very serious about needing a new pair of pants.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:30
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Al Borland Corp. posted:There were plenty of jokes in the episode. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell the difference between what scenes and dialogue were meant as jokes and which weren't. As one of the people who were pointing out some potential lampshading in this episode let me clarify. There was parodying and lampshading in how people reacted to the situation that they were placed in, but the gay relationship between two men was played 100% without jokes. And the situation their child was found in was also played 100% without jokes. There were jokes and references during the trial but the trial itself was real and had real consequences. I mean hell when Bortus is introduced the captain's reaction is mostly "So your species is entirely male? Huh. Interesting. Thanks for telling me."
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Sep 28, 2017 19:32
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Yeah of course, I was more responding to how he thinks ever scene just be a parody because someone said the word parody.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:35
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Why would wearing a mask require someone to be a joke character? That makes no sense. Bortus probably has some of the most silicone on his head and he is the least jokey character, and the two humans driving the ship are the most jokey.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:44
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Zaphod42 posted:If the doctor was played by Seth Zaphod42 posted:he had a rubber face mask on Zaphod42 posted:Orville is definitely
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Sep 28, 2017 19:46
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I wonder if they'll ever revisit this topic or if it's a one and done. It would be interesting if they discovered that the female birth rate of the bortuses was really 50%, but no one knows (except Big Sex Change) due to the cultural shame. Then the orville presents shocking evidence to the universe exposing the undeniable truth, creating a huge civil awakening. If this series lasts 7 seasons, maybe have an episode each season showing small progress as the population starts accepting females. I wonder how quickly child bortuses grow, will we see bortus Jr asking his dads "why did you change me"
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Sep 28, 2017 19:49
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Jesus christ what has Modern Family done to cis people's understanding of gay relationships.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:52
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Every gay relationship has two gay guys, the gay one, and the fat one. The gay one is the straight man and the fat one is the gay man.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:57
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Zaphod42 posted:You guys seem to expect an echo chamber and call anything that even slightly disagrees a troll. That's not healthy. You're not disagreeing, you're fundamentally misunderstanding pretty much the entire episode and everything in it. There's a difference.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:03
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Remember that time in the sitcom Scrubs where Dr. Cox gives organs that have rabies to a bunch of patients and they all die? Hilarious.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:15
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swickles posted:Remember that time in the sitcom Scrubs where Dr. Cox gives organs that have rabies to a bunch of patients and they all die? Hilarious. Or the one where his friend dies and he spends the entire episode in denial talking to a hallucination?
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Sep 28, 2017 20:18
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I don't even think it's necessarily homophobic to find two Worfs having tender but firm domestic conflict to be kinda funny. The fact that it's not played as funny makes it funny without really making the conflict itself funny.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:19
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Every gay relationship has two gay guys, the gay one, and the fat one. The gay one is the straight man and the fat one is the gay man. What if they're two gay women? Do those even exist in this day and age?
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Sep 28, 2017 20:20
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Iron Crowned posted:What if they're two gay women? Do those even exist in this day and age? It works the same way but with somewhat fewer penises. source: attended my good friend's lesbian wedding last month
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Sep 28, 2017 20:21
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Kurieg posted:Or the one where his friend dies and he spends the entire episode in denial talking to a hallucination? Eh, they really missed with that joke.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:25
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The Bloop posted:It works the same way but with somewhat fewer penises. But it's not funny without penisses!
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Sep 28, 2017 20:26
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Iron Crowned posted:What if they're two gay women? Do those even exist in this day and age? I heard on the radio that women can't be gay and that they most likely just really hate men.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:29
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Iron Crowned posted:But it's not funny without penisses! American Vandal gave us the fantastic quote of an old woman saying, very seriously, "I will never understand what's so amusing about penises"
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Sep 28, 2017 20:30
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swickles posted:Remember that time in the sitcom Scrubs where Dr. Cox gives organs that have rabies to a bunch of patients and they all die? Hilarious. That episode of MASH with the baby and the chicken was also a real hoot Brawnfire posted:I don't even think it's necessarily homophobic to find two Worfs having tender but firm domestic conflict to be kinda funny. Referring to them as Worfs is easily my favourite thing about this thread
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Sep 28, 2017 20:34
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The Orville doing real hard hitting TNG grade serious episodes is cool and good. It's like every time M*A*S*H did a particularly heavy anti-war episode that had a couple minutes of comedy in it and then suddenly the laugh track is gone and the characters have hit their breaking point and everyone's sad. I'm just imagining someone complaining that there should have been canned laughter in the climactic scene of Sometimes You Hear The Bullet. e: dangit Vapors beat me to mentioning M*A*S*H
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Sep 28, 2017 20:38
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I don't know I liked the guy who referred to the entire race as Bortuses and talked about then going to the Bortus planet.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:39
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lelandjs posted:[Edit: the fact that so many critics and some posters thought that this episode was about something it isn't wants me to sit everyone down and force them to take a media analysis college course, goddam] Zaphod is just really loving bad at watching TV. And he keeps showing up in the threads of shows that I watch.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:44
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So, I am waiting for tonight, so that we can stop this lovely derail with zaphod. (And have a brand new one)
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Sep 28, 2017 20:46
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bunnyofdoom posted:(And have a brand new one) The blob monster is a terribly written character. He obviously represents Pakistani lesbian Jews and I think they handled the whole thing really badly. I only keep watching to complain
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Sep 28, 2017 20:49
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I don't know I liked the guy who referred to the entire race as Bortuses and talked about then going to the Bortus planet. also excellent Kazinsal posted:e: dangit Vapors beat me to mentioning M*A*S*H 
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Sep 28, 2017 20:54
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I'm insuring the doctor saying "Ugh, I hate going to Bortus world" and he's right behind her
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Sep 28, 2017 20:55
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I'm looking forward to the eventual Nazi Planet, or Gangster Planet
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Sep 28, 2017 20:56
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Zaphod42 posted:He's full of poo poo and should be told to gently caress off. He's just trolling to stir the pot. Eat poo poo, you bigot gently caress Edit: It's like you saw an episode of DS9 and wrote it off as a bad minstrel show Accretionist fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 21:21
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Iron Crowned posted:I'm looking forward to the eventual Nazi Planet, or Gangster Planet No, God no. Gangster Planet= casino bar scene= Seth will sing. I love this show but we don't need jazz interludes. I'm still getting over Riker's brass phase.
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Sep 28, 2017 21:27
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He's a good singer though.
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Sep 28, 2017 21:29
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Stairs posted:No, God no. Seth is actually a really good lounge singer so I don't see the problem. Yes I do like Vic Fontaine why do you ask?
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Sep 28, 2017 21:30
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There are people who legitimately don't like Vic Fontaine?
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Sep 28, 2017 21:31
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Slung Blade posted:There are people who legitimately don't like Vic Fontaine? He's very divisive. He's okay in my book thanks to his role in "It's Only a Paper Moon."
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Sep 28, 2017 21:34
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