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Jose posted:Are 1TB ssd's likely to drop in price any time soon or ever? black Friday
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Sep 29, 2017 14:20
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Yeah, I got my 1TB 850 EVO for $225 last year's BF. 1TB drives aren't that overpriced when you look at GB/$ - it's just the "Samsung Tax" that makes everyone's eyebrows perk.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:39
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This is sort of out of nowhere but has anybody done an analysis of system RAM bandwidth vs storage bandwidth over time? Just wondering how the ratios have fluctuated. I've seen tons of $/MB trends for RAM and $/GB trends for storage but what about $/MB/s?
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Sep 29, 2017 21:08
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The new enterprise drives seem cheaper now too, the 1TB intel P4500s are coming in around $700USD, which is comparable to what we were paying for the 400GB P3700s a few months back. Similar endurance too.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:11
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They might actually have some zoggin' stock, too.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:15
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Microcenter has a sale on the 1TB samsung 960 evo right now: http://www.microcenter.com/product/471493/960_EVO_Series_1TB_NVMe_M2_Internal_SSD
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Sep 29, 2017 21:20
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willroc7 posted:Microcenter has a sale on the 1TB samsung 960 evo right now: Jesus that's over $100 less than Amazon or Newegg's current price. EDIT: Of course, this also just makes it clear Samsung's charging an *insane* markup for these. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 21:22
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Would an nvme even be worth it on a 2x slot? My z97 board has a m.2 but it's only electrical 2X. Worse comes to worst I could just pick a M.2 to pcie card.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:58
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It doesn't peg out a 4X slot. It'd probably be pegging a 2X slot a lot more often, but the major benefits come from the improved controller actually designed for flash opposed to adapting a HD interface to flash. You'll probably still see the hundreds of thousands of I/Os that dramatically differentiate NVME more than just bandwidth. Writes don't even hit 2GB/s and reads hit 3.5GB/s.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:21
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willroc7 posted:Microcenter has a sale on the 1TB samsung 960 evo right now: Welp... Now I'm going to have 4.25 TB of SSD in my PC. Edit: I guess they all sold because I got a order cancellation email about an hour after I placed the order. SlayVus fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Sep 30, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 22:33
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willroc7 posted:Microcenter has a sale on the 1TB samsung 960 evo right now: My order online got cancelled.
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Sep 30, 2017 01:29
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The Electronaut posted:My order online got cancelled. It's off their website now, too.
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Sep 30, 2017 02:28
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It's off their website now, too. Weird it's still up for me
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Sep 30, 2017 05:52
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Rabid Snake posted:Weird it's still up for me The other likelihood is that it's still in stock in *your* store, and what happened is that some dickmilk(s) made up multiple accounts and cleaned out the web store's stock and others bought up all the local stock. Expect to see them on eBay for $399 by tomorrow afternoon.
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Sep 30, 2017 06:04
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Seamonster posted:I've seen tons of $/MB trends for RAM and $/GB trends for storage but what about $/MB/s? As far as latency is concerned, without an interconnect closer to the CPU than PCIe (unlikely and probably unnecessary) or a new NVM technology besides NAND (the jury is still out on 3D XPoint) I’m not sure there’s much room for meaningful performance improvements in consumer SSDs right now.
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Sep 30, 2017 13:56
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In terms of available bandwidth, there's a little difference between RAM speeds, but most of the difference just comes from the technology (DDR4 vs upcoming 5, PCIe 3 vs upcoming 4) and what our platform overlords see fit to give us in terms of lanes/channels. A typical DDR4 chip is 40 GB/s per channel, and PCIe3 is 1 GB/s per lane (slightly less for talking NVMe over PCIe, hence why drives max out at 3.5GB/s not 4). Consumer hardware is 2 channel, and 20-24 total available CPU lanes. Server hardware varies but can be 12 channel and 128 lanes. Some people stuffed 8 SSDs into a Threadripper system (which has the CPU PCIe lanes to support them) and got 28 GB/s out of their SSDs: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/eight-nvme-m2-ssds-in-raid-on-x399-threadripper-reach-28-gbs.html
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Sep 30, 2017 15:41
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I have Windows 10 on a 60GB partition on a Samsung 830 256GB. The rest of that drive and all of an 850 512GB are used for games. I'll be nuking the OS partition for a Coffee Lake build. While I'm at it, would there be any real world benefit to moving the OS partition to the 850? If so, I'm minded to wipe both drives and start over instead of messing about with resizing the partitions. Edit: It looks like I actually did this when I got the 850 and completely forgot about it. I'll leave this exciting question here for posterity. SuperTeeJay fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 13:57
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It's not a huge difference. The 850 is about 50% faster than the 830, but that's not the whole story, once you're on any SSD you've moved the storage bottleneck from a HD to other parts of the system. Speeding up the SSD might only gain you 10% faster loading times because you're now waiting on the CPU or SATA controller to process data rather than a HD to serve it up. If you have storage speed limited workloads then you might see improvements more directly proportional to the speed increase of the drive, but for most consumer workloads any SSD (as long as it's reliable) is about as good as any other.
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Oct 1, 2017 14:13
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craig588 posted:It's not a huge difference. The 850 is about 50% faster than the 830, but that's not the whole story, once you're on any SSD you've moved the storage bottleneck from a HD to other parts of the system. Speeding up the SSD might only gain you 10% faster loading times because you're now waiting on the CPU or SATA controller to process data rather than a HD to serve it up. yeah, the improvement in latency and iops alone from even the best hdds to the worst ssds is so embarassingly palpable in the course of normal desktop use that further improvements are unfortunately saddled with diminishing returns
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Oct 1, 2017 16:15
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Generic Monk posted:yeah, the improvement in latency and iops alone from even the best hdds to the worst ssds is so embarassingly palpable in the course of normal desktop use that further improvements are unfortunately saddled with diminishing returns To be honest I get the impression Windows itself has enough overhead that faster speed ssds don't feel faster. Shouldn't really be like that.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:08
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The benefits of even faster SSDs are often hidden because of decompression. The applications where NVMe really shines are all areas where compression isn't used: initial boot, DBs, VMs, scratch disks. If you've got only 4 cores then, for games and such, you're not going to see load times improvements from disks faster than 200ish MB/s, because that bottlenecks you on CPU, decompressing assets. And if you think about it, that's terrible. Even a 16 core threadripper could only handle 800ish MB/s?! SSDs are already well over 4 times that, bottlenecked on PCIe connectivity! NVMe is such a big game changer that I continue to be slightly annoyed that the industry isn't moving faster to adapt. Intel should already be offering 4 more CPU lanes for consumers, and the industry should be arguing about picking a few algorithms to put in hardware, or just shipping FPGAs on consumer CPUs to handle the "decompression crisis". A small FPGA could easily handle GB/s of decompression. ...But then again, I guess nobody in the business really cares that much about gamers' load times, and I don't know that this bottleneck seriously impacts many other applications.
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Oct 1, 2017 17:46
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I remember back far enough when disks were so slow you could get more speed by using compressed data. hah!
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Oct 1, 2017 18:25
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crazypenguin posted:The benefits of even faster SSDs are often hidden because of decompression. The applications where NVMe really shines are all areas where compression isn't used: initial boot, DBs, VMs, scratch disks. Decompressing assets? I thought audio and video were already compressed. Maybe textures and stuff like that?
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Oct 1, 2017 18:40
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Beaten in a couple of other threads, but Intel will apparently be launching 240GB and 480GB consumer version Optane SSDs at the end of October. http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-optane-ssd-900p-specs-launches-end-of-october.html I expect everyone running a mission critical home server to run out and get one. Wonder what it will do for my Plex server
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Oct 1, 2017 19:17
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WhyteRyce posted:Beaten in a couple of other threads, but Intel will apparently be launching 240GB and 480GB consumer version Optane SSDs at the end of October. virtually nothing? maybe your videos will start 50ms quicker
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Oct 1, 2017 19:39
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Look at this guy who doesn't have hundreds of people using his Plex server
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Oct 1, 2017 19:41
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WhyteRyce posted:I expect everyone running a mission critical home server to run out and get one. Wonder what it will do for my Plex server I don't expect anyone to have a mission-critical home server. Mission-critical sits in a datacenter. At home ... is anything but that.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:57
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With best in class latency and sustained workload performance maybe people can upgrade their sarcasm detectors  But yeah a ton of these benefits probably won't help with most consumer users WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 20:34
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how good are WD blue ssd compared to the great samsung 850 evo? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820250080 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147374
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Oct 1, 2017 21:19
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wargames posted:how good are WD blue ssd compared to the great samsung 850 evo? I believe they're the same (literally) as the SanDisk X400, which (per the OP) is the silver medal to the 850 EVO's gold.
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Oct 1, 2017 21:33
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Hello thread, I read the OP but I still have some questions, never having had a SSD before. As October the 5th draws near I'm going for a brand new system (office and a bit of gaming) that will have a SSD, but... 1. Will bigger SSDs live longer, as single memory cells are used less often? 2. Most SSDs on sale are TLC and I read that that's the worst kind (after SLC and MLC), but will a TLC drive still be usable as long as a traditional spinning HD? I could go for the small "120GB Corsair Force Series MP500" which is MLC but will it make a difference? 3. Let's say I will go for a cheaper M2 SSD. In that case it does not make a difference whether it is a non-NVME M2 SSD or a SATA-SSD, right? Expect it saves me the inconvenience to fiddle with the SATA cable. Thank you very much!
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Oct 2, 2017 09:54
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WhyteRyce posted:Look at this guy who doesn't have hundreds of people using his Plex server i will politely extricate myself from the middle of your data gangbang then
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Oct 2, 2017 09:56
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Hello thread, I read the OP but I still have some questions, never having had a SSD before. As October the 5th draws near I'm going for a brand new system (office and a bit of gaming) that will have a SSD, but... 1. Larger SSDs can occasionally carry longer warranties and "TBW" ratings. TBW = TeraBytes Written. Pretty much every SSD will go *way* beyond their warranty/TBW limit, but as with anything computer-related, there are always outliers. A 500GB SSD will likely continue to work just as long as a 1TB one, the 1TB one just carries a better warranty in some cases. 2. In the early days, you generally wanted SLC and MLC. TLC has come a very long way, and the 850 EVO uses TLC V-NAND. SLC is very rarely seen these days outside of very specific uses. 3. It entirely depends on the motherboard you're using. Not all M.2 SSDs are NVMe. Some are keyed for SATA. For instance, the M.2 850 EVO is not NVMe, but it shares the same form factor (2280) as the 960 EVO NVMe drive. Most M.2 ports are keyed for both kinds of drives, but older motherboards (Z77/Z97) are 'iffy' as to which drives they can use. Similarly, 200-series Intel boards with two M.2 slots generally have one slot that's NVMe-only, and one that will take SATA or NVMe, with an SATA drive disabling one of the SATA III ports on the motherboard. And yes, in the BYOPC thread, I've been recommending M.2 drives simply because it cuts down on cable clutter, especially since more people are seeming to want to go with mATX and ITX builds. You're going to be amazed on how much *better* using a computer with an SSD is - and how quickly you'll grow to loathe using any computer without one. That being said, it's nigh-on-impossible to tell the difference between a recent SATA drive (regardless of form factor) and an NVMe drive, other than how much more lighter your wallet will be after going with the latter. Don't feel the need to spend more on an NVMe drive as while it's definitely fast, nothing's really around yet that fully utilizes that extra speed.
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Oct 2, 2017 10:15
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Hello thread, I read the OP but I still have some questions, never having had a SSD before. As October the 5th draws near I'm going for a brand new system (office and a bit of gaming) that will have a SSD, but... 1. yes they will. they might even be faster too. the difference will not really be appreciable except at the high end with very heavy workloads however 2. a tlc ssd from a decently reputable brand will last you as long, if not much longer, than a spinning disk. an mlc ssd will last even longer, but to really need that extra endurance you have to practically be trying to wear out the drive 3. m.2 is a specification for connecting physically small devices like ssds and wifi cards. m.2 drives can use sata, which is the same speed as if the drive were connected with a sata cable to a plug on the motherboard, or PCI-e, which is much faster (what your graphics card uses to connect to the motherboard). generally pci-e drives are in two subsets, AHCI and nvme. nvme is more efficient when you're running really fast drives, and most new PCI-e drives will use it. if you're spending the extra money to buy a pci-e drive, ensure it has nvme to get the most out of it. for light gaming and office tasks, a sata ssd will do just fine though (i went from a sata ssd to a pci-e nvme ssd and the performance difference was almost unnoticeable, except in very very specific workloads).. you can pick one in the m.2 form factor or in the 2.5" form factor that you connect to the motherboard with a cable; you don't lose any performance so it just depends on what connectors you have and what's convenient for you. e: lmao a little pointless me replying! To condense all this bullshit: buy a sata ssd from a reputable brand and you'll be fine. The op of this thread, while i think it does a lot to instill best practices, can kind of scare newbies when there's really not much to worry about. Most of the really lovely brands have died off or been bought out anyway, so it's even pretty hard to get burned on the brand nowadays (aside: i have a couple of the really cheap and nasty ocz ssds back from what is a pretty black period in that brand's history, and they're still trucking like 5 years later in (other people's) computers). My only recommendation wrt best practice is to try and make sure you have around 10%+ space free on the drive most times, as it can adversely impact the lifespan if you keep it filled up all the time. Most likely not so much you'll notice, and modern operating systems tend to throw a fit once you run out of free space anyway, but it's a good general rule. Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 10:18
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Hello thread, I read the OP but I still have some questions, never having had a SSD before. As October the 5th draws near I'm going for a brand new system (office and a bit of gaming) that will have a SSD, but... 1. Yes 2. Longer than a HD 3. If you want to go cheap a conventional SATA drive is usually going to be cheaper than a M2 SATA one. I relatively early adopted a SSD (back when it was around 500 dollars for 256GB) and I wasn't careful about my write patterns to it at all. After like 5 years I only wrote 80TB to it, even the lowest end drives have 100TB warranties now. The difference in old SLC drives versus new TLC drives is my old drive had a write endurance of 1PB while my TLC replacement has a rating of only 400TB. For consumer workloads I don't think it matters and drive manufacturers are adjusting their designs to be more suitable in a trade off of lower endurance that also costs less. For datacenter workloads there still are the higher endurance drives but they cost a lot more. To highlight how not careful about writes I was I would rip DVDs and Blurays and instead of sending the work in progress file to a HD I first ripped the raw image to my SSD to strip the DRM then I transcoded it to my SSD. There's no reason to do that other than I was used to writing C:\temp as my working folder and I never bothered to think about it. My drive didn't fail after 80TB of writes either, I just switched to an NVME one and that old SATA one is shuffled down to another computer.
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Oct 2, 2017 10:31
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Oh my, so much effort put into answering my questions. Thanks so very much.
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Oct 2, 2017 13:40
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Volguus posted:I don't expect anyone to have a mission-critical home server. Mission-critical sits in a datacenter. At home ... is anything but that. Joke's on you I live in a data center 
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Oct 2, 2017 14:36
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Hello thread, I read the OP but I still have some questions, never having had a SSD before. As October the 5th draws near I'm going for a brand new system (office and a bit of gaming) that will have a SSD, but... An old ssd from 2009 would make a non ssd system feel like it had a massive upgrade. They make normal disks feel like tape.
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Oct 2, 2017 14:54
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:An old ssd from 2009 would make a non ssd system feel like it had a massive upgrade. They make normal disks feel like tape. Amen. Tried upgrading an old iMac with a 5400rpm spinny drive yesterday to High Sierra and it poo poo all over itself and hosed the install after freezing for ~4 hours. Before that, waking the thing up was a loving nightmare.At some point I'm going to have to pry the drat thing open and put in a SSD but I'm waiting for 1TB drive prices to drop.
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Oct 2, 2017 15:37
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Well hell:quote:ASUS Intros Hyper M.2 x16 Riser Card
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Oct 5, 2017 02:18
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