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Fray posted:So there's clearly a lot of demand for the 45cm laser. How would you all feel about modifying the DD in my post to use it? At that point the two plans would use them in equal amounts. This is true, and in all honesty I meant the line about more death lasers as a joke. I admit I meta-gamed my design a bit; being faster than your opponent is a huge deal in beam combat, but I assumed our primary opponent well be the UT who we believe to be fairly slow, so I went with a slower speed and more guns. This could backfire if we run into an enemy faster than my designs but slower than the fast beam DDs. Bremen fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 19:41
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 18:14 |
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Giant space lasers are anything but a joking matter. 
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Oct 2, 2017 19:46
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Fray posted:So there's clearly a lot of demand for the 45cm laser. How would you all feel about modifying the DD in my post to use it? At that point the two plans would use them in equal amounts. sneaky! yes, do that and you have my vote: Fray I want to see the space power point slide deck for this procurement round now sebmojo fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 19:47
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Plan Bremen
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Oct 2, 2017 19:47
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Voting for Fray proposal
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Oct 2, 2017 19:56
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Fray posted:So there's clearly a lot of demand for the 45cm laser. How would you all feel about modifying the DD in my post to use it? At that point the two plans would use them in equal amounts. Nick Esasky posted:I have to say, the reason i didn't put a 45cm on the thing in the first place were twofold: Ah. Okay, still voting for Fray but having the 45cm is less important Ferrovanadium fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 20:00
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Fray because it is using my TOE.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 20:18
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Plan Fray, because I like the modular jack-of-all-trades deal, Actually, on further reflection, the Azrael right now still has a 30cm laser and a 15cm laser and it can tow a missile pod. I think it should stay as-is instead of trying for a 45cm version. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 21:02
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Plan Fray I don't know much about ship design in Aurora and both proposals seem reasonable. I do however like Frays modular presentation. And am not that much of a fan of giant doom lasers because putting all our eggs in one laser seems risky.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:33
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Bremen
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Oct 2, 2017 21:36
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Fray posted:So there's clearly a lot of demand for the 45cm laser. How would you all feel about modifying the DD in my post to use it? At that point the two plans would use them in equal amounts. I have to say, the reason i didn't put a 45cm on the thing in the first place were twofold: 1)ROF: 90 seconds vs. 40 seconds for a 30cm is sorta a big deal, even if the OG Schiaperelli has 60 second ROF on their big plasma. I don't horribly like a single 15cm for secondary armament for that long. 2)Fitting: Have to find another 250 tons of ship to put the drat thing in. Getting that without touching the engines means either ripping out the other laser and its generator, leaving us with a 90-second long ROF with no secondary damage. Or we can do horrific things to the durability of the thing by cutting out 75% of the shields or making the armor completely out of paper.
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Oct 2, 2017 22:35
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MISSILES! THINGS THAT GO BOOM! Our R&D and salvage from Facility has been quite kind to us on the missile front, with a bunch of new things being possible: 1) Our base missile agility has been fully DOUBLED, which means we need to devote far less of the missile to having a good chance to hit targets once they get through enemy PD. This also grants us a ability to make AMMs with a decent chance of actually splashing same-size inbounds. 2)Although less dramatic, the amount of Boom/Ton has gone up for our warheads. 3)New Engines means Missiles Go Fast Now. 24000 if you devote half the things to its engine. 4)We decided to recommend Size 4 as standard ASM size because it gives us a decent amount of room for shiny extras. Such as, say, putting our new sensor tech to use as a secondary seeker head so that missiles don't just plain SD and waste their warheads once their launcher/initial target dies. Here are some initial suggested designs we have, courtesy of Chief Missile Tech Ranjani from the Triton yards (they're all 50% engine): code:code:code:Nick Esasky fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 23:38
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Additionally, size 4 lets us make a fun little present for anything that gets too close to our missile ships:code:Every missile ship that also has beams can keep a salvo or two of these in its magazines, then when it closes to 120,000 km or closer it lets lose with these and turns each launcher into a powerful melee weapon.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:08
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Voting Fray, the difference between 45cm lasers and 30 cm lasers on the dests is do i want to do 24 (penetrating 7 layers or armor) damage every 40 seconds or do i want to do 53 (penetrating 9 or 10?) every 90 seconds. If you look at our own ship designs, 95% of all ships and 100% of all ships a dest squadron should engage alone will be penetrated by either weapon. If it is able to tow a missile pod at fleet speed, that is another bonus, giving it a one time huge damage spike.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:43
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Bremen's proposal has my support.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:53
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Whatever gets ship chat over with
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Oct 3, 2017 01:20
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Another vote for Bremen. If possible, I'd prefer for the heavier tonnage ships to be very specialized (Big Beams, Massive Missles, Fleets of Fighters), and the smaller, more nimble ships filling in the gap as jack-of-all-trades where required.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:30
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Hessi posted:Voting Fray, the difference between 45cm lasers and 30 cm lasers on the dests is do i want to do 24 (penetrating 7 layers or armor) damage every 40 seconds or do i want to do 53 (penetrating 9 or 10?) every 90 seconds. If you look at our own ship designs, 95% of all ships and 100% of all ships a dest squadron should engage alone will be penetrated by either weapon. If it is able to tow a missile pod at fleet speed, that is another bonus, giving it a one time huge damage spike. Internal damage isn't binary on or off; there's a big difference between a 24 damage laser doing 2 damage through 6 layers of armor and maybe knocking out a weapon or fuel tank, and a spinal laser doing 15 damage and taking out a quarter of the internal components on a cruiser. It also carves a 5 wide crater for followup hits instead of 3 wide on the 30cm, which our rapidly firing 15cms can easily exploit. I've got a strong suspicion that with either fleet doctrine our battles will mostly come down to softening up the enemy with missiles and then finishing it with a beam fight, and the spinal is just much more devastating at that than anything else, even once you factor in the recharge time. It's Fray's choice, but I'd be much more confident in his fleet if he had decided to switch. Bremen fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 01:41
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What are the hit rates on these hilariously slow to fire weapons? (How badly are we loving ourselves) What is the reload speeds on our current big hitters?
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Oct 3, 2017 04:29
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Affi posted:What are the hit rates on these hilariously slow to fire weapons? (How badly are we loving ourselves) Beam hit rates are based on range and target speed. With our current designs, the big lasers would have an 84% chance to hit anything 5000 km/s or slower at 50,000km (ideal range for laser damage) rising up to 97% at point blank range.
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Oct 3, 2017 04:56
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Fire Control S03 160-5000 (1) Max Range: 320 000 km TS: 5000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69 Hit chances stem from fire controls, relative speed (& a bunch of niche things). Fire control hit chances are these numbers in bold at the tail of the fire control. By convention they're in 10Kkm increments unless specified. So point blank is 97%, 100Kkm is 69%. If the target is going faster than our 5Kkm/s tracking then there's a proportional reduction too. Hitting a 5Kkm/s or slower ship of the line at 40K? 88% Hitting a 10Kkm/s fighter at 100K? ~34% Clearly we want as many spinals as we can get to smooth the odds out but if we treat them as the big bore weapons that they are then we'll be fine. They'll one shot kill most things we know about and good odds at spalling a far superior foe we haven't met yet
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Oct 3, 2017 05:21
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Voting plan Bremen!
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Oct 3, 2017 06:32
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People complained there wasn't enough crazy in our fleet doctrines. I'll show them crazy! Bremen's not at all insane Pod based fleet Every ship is capable of towing a pod while maintaining 4000 km/s. Pods fill many rolls instead of just missiles, meaning that a destroyer squadron could be missile based or launch fighters depending on loadout. Destroyers: There is only a jump destroyer and a beam destroyer. Versatility is achieved by attaching different pods. code:code:Of course you probably don't care about any of that, so here's the pods: code:code:code:code:code:code:The fleet still revolves around squadrons (1 jump ship and 4 destroyers/cruisers), just with every ship towing a pod. The firepower and versatility adds up; a destroyer squadron can supplement its 4 beam ships with 15 fighters, or a cruiser squadron can double its missile throw weight. When not in use, extra pods can be left in orbit of colonies as defense platforms. (Please don't actually vote on this unless Saros gives it the okay; attaching and detaching a bunch of pods could get tedious) Bremen fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 06:54
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Changing my vote to the Insane Pod Fleet or IPF for short
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Oct 3, 2017 07:04
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Nothing terribly exciting on the table (edit: but pods are getting there!) If you want to proverbially shake spear at someone then you need a real Martian warship. Fast, armoured and with a spine. Resolve the considerable logistical nightmare of high draw military engine fuel consumption over long distances by residing inside a giant shell when not in active use Project 31273 v0.1 code:code:
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Oct 3, 2017 07:05
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Fray, because of fleet composition modularity. I'm neutral on big lasers, on one hand massive armour penetration is great, on the other having the utility of two faster firing weapons is also something to consider. Both have something we'll be sure to miss in one situation or another.
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Oct 3, 2017 07:06
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A FAC code:A 17000 ton Carrier code:
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Oct 3, 2017 07:09
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Bremen for almost having enough Spinal lasers.
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Oct 3, 2017 09:47
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 The voting was close but Plan Fray squeaks through with three more votes. Congratulations Fray! 7th June, 1900hrs The jumpship Dubious distinction gently transits back into the Ranginui system from Sol. It has been nearly three days since she left and the detachment exploration ships in orbit of the fifth planet were starting to become extremely worried. She brings news of turmoil in both Sol system and Martian command. Firstly the Pluto Facility seems to have awakened from its catatonia a new being. It has built itself some sort of mobile shell and is stomping around inside the facility demanding that it be allowed to speak to representatives from the major polities representing Humanity. It claims to have momentous news but will not disclose anything except to those in a position of power to act upon it. It also seems to have taken quite the shine to Dr Lafever and spends long hours discussing everything from Sol system politics to philosophy to technology with the doctor. Secondly two days ago outraged Terran representatives demanded a revisit of the Lunar accords. News appears to have reached them of Mars's unexpected advances in jump technology and with the enormous prize of Ranginui's fifth planet dangling before them Terran diplomats are demanding shared access and exploitation rights and a refined treaty to settle the question of both extra-solar territorial claims and xenoarcheological discoveries. Their basic stance is that it should be allowable to claim both Jump Points and Extrasolar systems based on right of first discovery which would give them ownership of Ranginui as first discoverers. Martian diplomats expect that this is a cover for their real intent which is to secure access to the ruins as they appear to have another system to transit though first from their own inner-system jump point before arriving in Ranginui which given that Mars has direct access from Sol puts them at a disadvantage both militarily and claims-wise. Finally psychological symptoms amongst the quarantined members of the unfortunate Jumpship Tangaroa are worsening. It has emerged that several were planning a mutiny to seize the ship and try to escape from the feeling of impending doom and two have committed suicide in the intervening time. One left behind a rambling note describing visions of an unspeakable horror which consumed everything in its path and corrupted the souls of all it touched. Mars has imposed strict maintenance requirements for all jump drives and decided that crews exposure to jump transits must be limited as much as possible.  Goons, where do we go from here? 1) What do we do with Facility? A - Attempt to contain it so we can continue to study the facility and potentially access its stockpiles of weaponry. B - Offer to allow it to speak to high ranking Martian officials and deliver whatever momentous news it has. C - Give in to its demands and both reveal its presence to the solar system at large and allow it to address representatives from the four major polities. - Some other option? 2) How do we respond to the Terrans? If we decide to sit down around the table with them again what demands shall we make? Saros fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 11:58
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[B] and [C] for the Pluto Problem. Let's flank the Terrans on the issue, and I anticipate trying to fight the thing would be dangerous. As for the treaty issue, gently caress the Terrans. The original treaty is good for us, but we should graciously allow them to share the data we recover from the ruins.... after we exploit it first. Delay delay delay, remind them that a violation of the treaty would result in serious consequences. Okay realtalk Terra is almost certainly planning on violating the treaty right now. It's long-term suicide not too. What's going to happen is they're going to try and establish a military presence there before we can. It has become imperative to move a fleet into Ranganui ASAP, because the Terrans will as soon as they can.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:20
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1 B You can speak to us Martians. We are very likely in a position to do something about it but speaking to the other polities will likely cause conflict and compromise our ability to do something
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Oct 3, 2017 12:26
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Take Facility's new form to the talks. Tell the Terrans that if the big man himself or someone like his right hand man doesn't show up, we're not interested in having any sort of talks. From the Terran point of view, Ranganui is probably more important for now, and the unfortunate truth is that we're not in a position, militarily, where we can force them to gently caress off. So, try to compromise. Ranganui is Martian territory by the Lunar accords, and the Terrans having an easy way into Martian home territory is an obvious no, so there's no way we can allow any sort of Terran military access into the system (or at least near the gate). But it should be fine to set up a joint exploration/investigation force and/or allow the Terrans some leeway for their own investigations.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:36
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C We should offer the Terrans access to the facility in Sol in return for us keeping Ragna. Let them make the deal without them knowing the IC and TFS having the same access to The Facility. Screw them over like they tried to screw us, basically.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:46
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C Tell the facility we have great news about humanity agreeing to disagree and show them the Lunar Accords. Make sure they understand the importance of the parts about humanity uniting against alien threats. Recommend that the upcoming broadcast start with a blazing endorsement of the Accords. Make sure to get a picture of the UT diplomat's faces when they realize that they have to choose between being friends with the goose that lays the golden eggs and Atlantis. In the meantime fortify Atlantis and the relevant jump points that we know about. Also since nobody seems to want to read a sci-fi short story published in the 50s here is what Scanners Live in Vain suggested about the PAIN OF SPACE 1: Passengers travel in cryosleep 2: Crewmen are pulled from convicts etc. , have all senses disabled except for sight and are what we now refer to as cyborgs to delay death by space travel 3: Officers are known as Scanners, elite volunteers for the sense removals and cyborgification, monitor crewmen and themselves for signs of physical and mental breakdowns 4: Brilliant scientist discovers problems start with outermost crew first, wants to grow colonies of oysters or clams just inside the hull of the ship to soak up the damage 5: It works, remaining plot of story hopefully unnecessary Something like that, been a while since I read the story in question.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:52
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habituallyred posted:C Tell the facility we have great news about humanity agreeing to disagree and show them the Lunar Accords. Make sure they understand the importance of the parts about humanity uniting against alien threats. Recommend that the upcoming broadcast start with a blazing endorsement of the Accords. Make sure to get a picture of the UT diplomat's faces when they realize that they have to choose between being friends with the goose that lays the golden eggs and Atlantis. In the meantime fortify Atlantis and the relevant jump points that we know about. 
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Oct 3, 2017 13:11
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As it stands humanity will not unite against the alien threat. Terra, Mars and IC are hostile to eachother. Terra tries to treat Mars in a 19th century rivalry sort of way. All three have strong ideological differences and probably most importantly, Terra has Putin and his gang at the top. If an alliance is formed, all the others will have to constantly watch their back to try and prevent Puti-Puti from screwing them over.
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Oct 3, 2017 13:17
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habituallyred posted:C Tell the facility we have great news about humanity agreeing to disagree and show them the Lunar Accords. Make sure they understand the importance of the parts about humanity uniting against alien threats. Recommend that the upcoming broadcast start with a blazing endorsement of the Accords. Make sure to get a picture of the UT diplomat's faces when they realize that they have to choose between being friends with the goose that lays the golden eggs and Atlantis. In the meantime fortify Atlantis and the relevant jump points that we know about. This is really clever.
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Oct 3, 2017 13:17
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For #1, I vote option C. Let the entire solar system know that we were the first to get an advanced alien race as our ally. For #2, here are my ideas, in the order of how good I think they are: 1. Exchange jump route maps with UT. We give them ours, they give us theirs. Yes, they already HAVE our full jump route map, but they don't know that yet, now do they? They don't yet know how long we've had jump tech. Of course, GIVING them the map would allow them to estimate, but it would still be a fun prank that gives us info that we don't yet have. 2. Deploy at least a token military presence to Ranganui to defend the claim we hold, EDIT: Ignore idea #3. Inglonias fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 13:32
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The Lunar accords: The Accords mostly deal with the minutiae of the IC armistice, the reparations as well as the handover of Uranus and Titans status as an independent state. The two sections which are relevant now is firstly the status of the Sol systems jump points and secondly the clauses which call for mutual assistance in the face of an alien threat. They establish that one jump point is under the direct control of both Terra and Mars respectively and that they have the right to control or restrict traffic as they wish with allowances for the passage of 'legitimate' commercial vessels should in the future this be required. They further stipulate that any further jump points discovered in Sol are to be open to all who wish to use them. The most important thing right now is the accords are silent on the disposition of extra-solar territory. It was not expected that the two owned Sol jump points would lead to connected systems in what is dubbed the 'jump network' so soon and the accords were a relatively hasty piece of work so issues like this were left for future negotiations as both parties had an interest in keeping quiet. While Mars would seem to have the stronger claim to the Ranginui system due to proximity to the Martian jump point Earth does appear to have been the first discoverer and it could be argued that this gives them the right to explore and colonise as they see fit. Saros fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 13:43
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 18:14 |
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In that case the actual right to exploit will be held by whoever can take the place and hold it.
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Oct 3, 2017 13:51
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