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Bangkero posted:Goons in canoes This is weird. You rented 1 canoe which should be evenly split between the three people who needed to use it. Why would you charge people who already have their own equipment? I get that you had planned on renting three canoes and everyone pitch in, but when your buddies brought their own, it was only three guys who needed to rent. Those three guys still needed a canoe regardless and should have already been planning on renting anyway so it shouldn't have been a surprise or anything. It sounds like someone might have been salty they didn't get (literally) a free ride in a buddy's canoe. The only time people should split gear costs are if everyone is using something (like groceries, bear bin, camp fees etc). If its a canoe trip and literally the entire group is renting canoes, then yeah split the costs. I know it seems anal but this is why (for most complicated group trips) I make a spreadsheet where I take stock of people's gear, have them fill out what they can contribute and determine what still needs to be rented by the group and who needs to rent individual gear. I don't like surprises and I feel bad enough when my friends have to spend more money than they need to on a trip.
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Oct 2, 2017 18:41
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Bangkero posted:Question for you goons, as I'd like to get feedback in this scenario: If I'm understanding correctly, you had 7 people coming. Two of those people brought canoes (2 canoes) with space for 4 people. The remaining 3 people rented a 3-person canoe. Right now you have a canoe rental, X, split between 3 people. X/3 is the personal cost to rent, or 0.33X If no one had brought a canoe, you'd have needed to rent two more canoes. 3X/7, or 0.42X. Bringing canoes saves every individual money. You could try being super shifty and try to make all 5 people who didn't bring their own canoe pay for the single 3-person one, getting your out of pocket down to 0.2X, but at the cost of being a cheap lovely friend. There is absolutely no way you can expect the people who brought their own canoes to chip in on the rentals so it's either 5 of you splitting the cost of the the rental, or just the 3 of you who used it. If I was in one of the personally owned boats I'd maybe expect that I had a debt to settle with the guy who owned the canoe, not the renters. And I'd probably settle that debt with a case of beer or something small... bringer fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 20:15
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Definitely would not have paid anything toward canoe rental if I brought my own canoe.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:34
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Kayaks are better than canoes, imo. Why didn't you rent some of those?
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Oct 2, 2017 23:30
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Bangkero posted:Just wanted to hear how others would divide the costs and get some feedback. Thanks! Sounds like deserved flak. I wouldn't want to pay for someone else's rental, unless I was somehow using it. In the car analogy, I also would expect the financials to be dealt with on a car-by-car basis. I can't imagine why the car owner would pay for the rental, nor conversely why the car renters would have to pay for the owner's gas. The only way I could imagine supporting your decision would be if your friends said they would pay for the rental, let you get into a larger contract to suit that need, and then showed up with a canoe when it was too late for you to get the money back. Next time, figure this out beforehand (to be fair, it sounds like you tried to). Tsyni posted:Kayaks are better than canoes, imo. Why didn't you rent some of those? Canoes carry a lot more, and often people are somewhat afraid of kayaks (they shouldn't be, they're awesome). Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 00:05
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If there were seven people and two canoes were provided to carry four total, and a three person canoe was needed, then it's still the case that five members of the party needed canoes. If three people split the rental cost, two slackers ride for free. That either requires a lottery or... The five needing canoes split the rental cost. The rental is covered, and the five now have canoes. That requires the canoe owners to put up their equipment for free with no cost of maintenance nor any minimal "insurance" against damage.  In fact, the team required three canoes, for a total cost of 3x. Each person is responsible for 3x/7, with x going to each canoe owner (two individuals and the rental). Of course each owner is paying out their 3x/7 to the "team", and getting back x for the shared equipment. It is possible that the two owners will agree to half their prices if the rental is "too expensive" or somesuch. If x=$100 for the rental, five people pay $43. Then $57 is given to each individual owner, and $100 is given to the renter. The last $1 is used to seed the kitty during a drinking game.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:40
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Split it five ways. I'd be pissed if I had to pay more money based on which canoe I sat in. I'd also be pissed if I brought a canoe and had to pay anything at all.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:59
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Buy all the canoes for yourself out of your own pocket, then make a fleet of outriggers and conscript your friends into lake piracy. Do not spare the lash.
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Oct 3, 2017 04:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVtQNK_ZUJg
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Oct 3, 2017 05:25
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If I'm taking a friend backpacking for the first time and they just want to rent a pack to see if they like it, should I be obligated to pay half the rental cost?
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Oct 3, 2017 11:56
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Bangkero posted:Question for you goons, as I'd like to get feedback in this scenario: What you didn't mention, and what I suspect is important to your rationale of splitting the rental costs, are livery fees. By renting the canoe from these guys, did they then proceed to haul everyone and their canoes to the drop off point so everyone could paddle back to the livery? Depending on the place, most liveries will charge you 10-30$ a head for this service, regardless of whether you rent anything from them. Hell, paddling down the great dismal swamp on the Roanoke River, I paid nearly a hundred bucks even though I brought and used my Oru Kayak. To be fair, a lot of that was trip coordination and camping platform rental, and fairly reasonable for the trip involved, but the point still stands. Most fair way to split the cost is figure out the per head transportation cost from the livery, and have the owners pay that, and the renters pay that plus the canoe rental fee.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:26
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Thanks for the feedback all and I appreciate the discussion this has generated. I just sent out a revised spreadsheet with the canoe rental costs divided among the 5 non-canoe owners. Any one of us could have sat in any of the canoes. I'll probably get some flak for changing it after clearly stating how we would share the costs, but whatevs - none of us are hurting for money and I'm really just looking for the most fair way to split the costs. So thanks for the advice.  Tsyni posted:Kayaks are better than canoes, imo. Why didn't you rent some of those?
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Oct 3, 2017 15:14
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Tsyni posted:Kayaks are better than canoes, imo. Why didn't you rent some of those? You can bring a lot more gear for longer trips out in a canoe. Much easier to portage with all of said gear as well. Bangkero posted:We also didn't want to portage an extra boat since it was our first time to visit this provincial park and weren't sure how hectic the trails were. Which park? Algonquin? khysanth fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 18:35
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charliebravo77 posted:Anybody have any experience with the Klymit KSB 20 or 0 degree oversized bags? Alternatively the Big Agnes Encampment 15 or other larger packable bags? No fat backpackers, huh?  Might just order the Klymit and see what happens.
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Oct 3, 2017 18:39
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khysanth posted:You can bring a lot more gear for longer trips out in a canoe. Much easier to portage with all of said gear as well. Massasauga Provincial Park. I used to do Algonquin quite a bit when I was younger but have moved on to other places in the province to check out.
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Oct 3, 2017 19:50
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charliebravo77 posted:No fat backpackers, huh? can't help you, I use a quilt.
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Oct 3, 2017 19:54
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Officer Sandvich posted:can't help you, I use a quilt. What temps have you used one down to and what is your tent/pad setup? I will be likely seeing temperatures in the 20s, possibly even teens. I just don't know that a quilt will keep me quite as warm as a regular bag will, or be as easily used with a liner for added warmth.
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Oct 3, 2017 20:11
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I have a 20 degree quilt that works for me down to 30. Any lower than that and it starts to get uncomfortable. I use one of those folding thermarest foam pads. I'm a hot sleeper though. You should probably just order the bag and see if it fits.
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Oct 3, 2017 21:25
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Picnic Princess posted:If I'm taking a friend backpacking for the first time and they just want to rent a pack to see if they like it, should I be obligated to pay half the rental cost? I partially justified buying a lightweight hammock, pack, and quilt set by telling myself it would be easier to  e. spalling Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 05:09
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My wife and I are going to camp at Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP for four days during the week of Thanksgiving. Are there any recommended hikes that can't be missed? I haven't convinced my wife of the wonders that backpacking entails so we're mostly up for day hiking for now.
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Oct 4, 2017 05:13
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Bangkero posted:Thanks for the feedback all and I appreciate the discussion this has generated. I just sent out a revised spreadsheet with the canoe rental costs divided among the 5 non-canoe owners. Any one of us could have sat in any of the canoes. I'll probably get some flak for changing it after clearly stating how we would share the costs, but whatevs - none of us are hurting for money and I'm really just looking for the most fair way to split the costs. So thanks for the advice. How much money are you talking about with regard to the rental fees? Since it sounds like you organized the trip and you spelled out that all costs will be split equally, that's a totally fair arrangement. Did you guys also split other costs equally across the group? It sounds like you revised things with your group so I guess it doesn't really matter. If someone wants to bring a piece of gear that reduces the trip cost to the group that's great, but at a certain point you'll need a CPA to do the math on things.
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Oct 4, 2017 05:59
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The Aardvark posted:My wife and I are going to camp at Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP for four days during the week of Thanksgiving. Are there any recommended hikes that can't be missed? I haven't convinced my wife of the wonders that backpacking entails so we're mostly up for day hiking for now. The backcountry is wonderful, but there are a ton of good trails in the accessible areas too. I haven't been there in the winter but it looks like the road between the Kings Canyon and Sequoia "village" areas is open through December. That road is kind of harrowing to drive in the best of conditions so be aware it might be dangerous if it's icy. If I were just doing day hikes I would plan to camp in Sequoia and make a day trip up to Kings Canyon. In Sequoia I recommend the easy hikes around the giant sequoias and the Giant Forest trail, which are all in the same area. Also recommend taking the High Sierra Trail a few miles toward Bearpaw and turning back after lunch. Some friends of mine took the HST all the way to Whitney last year, and the opening parts are great:  You aren't really going to go wrong for scenery on any trail, though, and the rangers will know which trails are passable. Sequoia/Kings is one of the world's best parks and you should have a great time. Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 07:26
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charliebravo77 posted:What temps have you used one down to and what is your tent/pad setup? I will be likely seeing temperatures in the 20s, possibly even teens. I just don't know that a quilt will keep me quite as warm as a regular bag will, or be as easily used with a liner for added warmth. If you're going to be seeing temps in the teens, you'll probably want a 10deg bag at the least, and I'd consider a 0deg bag for sure. That rating isn't the bag's comfort rating. The comfort rating is usually 5-10 deg warmer than the listed lower-limit rating. My Kelty Cosmic Down 20 for example is not very comfortable below 30deg. I spent one awful night in it at 19deg, did not sleep well. Quilts vs mummies is a preference thing. It's hard to know if a quilt will work for you without actually testing one. It depends on your sleeping habits, how well you can keep it closed around you, etc. For your ground pad, you're going to want an R-value greater than 4 if you are going to be sleeping in the teens. R-value is additive, so you can put a foam pad underneath an inflatable to stack insulation.
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Oct 4, 2017 18:53
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I went with the 20 degree Klymit, but I already have a liner for a little extra warmth in super cold situations. I think I'd rather have a lighter bag and use the liner in the few instances it's necessary. We'll see in a month and a half when I'm in the middle of Nebraska in the cold.
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Oct 5, 2017 02:38
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So I had the urge to go out yesterday and cobbled together an overnight trip to do the Highland Backpacking Trail in Algonquin park tomorrow. Just finished making my meals and oh boy if planning isn't half the fun  If I can find my camera I'll even bring that, too.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:39
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Please do! Fall colours are hopefully still amazing. Might be busy if so. I met the superintendent of Algonquin a year ago and he talked a lot about it being by far the busiest time of year.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:45
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Trip report: I had a late start to the day and didn't actually hit the trail until 130pm, which put a bit of a hard limit of about 5.5 hours before dusk. I headed towards the Harness campground, a 17k trip that took four hours even. I picked a site on a point that had an awesome view, but it came at the cost of being very windswept. Had a very small meal after spilling most of it (what appeared to be solid rock underneath the stone I put my stove on was actually a convincing layer of ash) and a long if fitful rest because my hammock had a bit too much sag. The overnight low for the area was 40F so I mostly alternated between just right and a bit too warm. Woke up for good at about 830, but wasn't feeling hungry so I barely touched my breakfast before leaving at 1000. The remaining 19k took just over 4h, including a couple small detours for side trails and an outlook. I thought about going #yolo and doing it again in the opposite direction, but it was a long weekend and prettymuch everything was booked. Bugs were very light and the temperatures topped out in the mid-teens with plenty of cloud/tree cover. I probably didn't drink enough on the move because of the cool weather, only drinking 1L every couple hours, but made up for it at camp. The water was stained an almost pretty shade of light green after filtering, but was otherwise clear with no taste. There wasn't much in the way of fall canopy where I camped, but the drive into and out from the trailhead had some great colors. I was only able to take a few pictures before my camera died (either it or the batteries were failing), so in lieu of pictures I collected some Random Facts (c) for your infotainment: Total distance hiked (to nearest 500m): 36.5k Total time on the trail (to nearest 5min) 8h15, including breaks Breaks taken: 30 mins between two lookout and two water refill points Time at camp: 16h30 Spiderwebs broken with face: 27 (all but four on second day) Mosquito bites: 1 Bears seen: Zero, but at one point I heard some thumping and snorting from a thicket I couldn't peer into. Total costs: $30 for gas, $12.45 for an overnight pass, $75 after FORGETTING MY GODDAMN HIKING POLES IN THE loving PARKING LOT Total pack weight incl consumables: 19.55 pounds Things I didn't need to bring: A dead weight camera (5.3oz), second fleece sweater (8oz). Things I would like to have next time: thermometer. GPS would be handy but probably not required - trail was easy enough to follow and I had a good map, but I moved a lot faster than I needed to. Dogs petted: 3 Dogs not petted: 1 (sorry weird looking pug mix) This is the view I had from my hammock, poorly stitched together in MSpaint. It was pretty baller. I'm gonna order some poles from amazon and if it arrives early enough I'll try and to a loop of the western uplands before the season ends. Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 16:24
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Guest2553 posted:This is the view I had from my hammock, poorly stitched together in MSpaint. It was pretty baller. I'm gonna order some poles from amazon and if it arrives early enough I'll try and to a loop of the western uplands before the season ends. Duderz, go fetch http://hugin.sourceforge.net/ (download section, 'releases', there are Windows binaries available). Highly recommend for manual stitching. When you take your pictures, do about 30% overlap and it will automatically find alignment points. Also set your camera for fixed gamma/intensity and it will handle light level adjustments for you as well. Did you post on a bunch of local boards asking for your poles / lost and found? Sometimes people are nice. Sounds like a nice trip! Woosh!
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Oct 7, 2017 18:00
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Thanks for the tip. I'm not much of a picture taker (as in, I just don't take pictures as opposed to sucking at it) but would like to eventually make some prints of cool places I visit. I'll check with park lost and found when they open for the week, but I'm assuming the poles will never be seen again. I already ordered a replacement pair because I already have my second trip planned out and want them to arrive in time  70k, 2 night/3 day trip either this week or next week. Who knew it was as easy as going outside?
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Oct 8, 2017 22:58
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70$ for poles? Forget that, try these Costco carbon fiber poles. I've had my pair for three years now and they're awesome. At any rate, don't feel bad, that's such a common thing to do, I know three people who have done that exact same thing. In fact, we've taken to calling one of the guys in my hiking group "Where's my Poles" because he's always losing them.
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Oct 11, 2017 12:25
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Summited three mountains this weekend in Three Ridges Wilderness--Bee Mountain, The Priest, and Three Ridges. I definitely see why this stretch is commonly viewed as the most difficult section of the AT.       
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Oct 11, 2017 12:36
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OSU_Matthew posted:70$ for poles? Forget that, try these Costco carbon fiber poles. I've had my pair for three years now and they're awesome.  , my man. Replace the .com with .ca and see what happens, then add 13% tax  Works out to about $68 USD. Usually this is the kind of thing I only need to gently caress up once before getting my poo poo together, at least this time it was something easily replaceable. The poles actually arrived yesterday so I'll probably go walk around for a couple hours sometime this weekend. Nice pics too. AT is a bucket list item of mine, but my choices are traveling to the US to section hike a couple weeks at a time, or doing it in like 15 years if the concept of national parks still exists.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:09
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Has anyone in here done the Annapurna circuit or something similar in the Himalayas? I want to make a trip to that area and the circuit is the obvious trip to make, just wondering if there were any other options worth looking at.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:46
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Pantsmaster Bill posted:Has anyone in here done the Annapurna circuit or something similar in the Himalayas? I want to make a trip to that area and the circuit is the obvious trip to make, just wondering if there were any other options worth looking at. I've done the circuit and it's cool and good
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Oct 12, 2017 09:50
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Pantsmaster Bill posted:Has anyone in here done the Annapurna circuit or something similar in the Himalayas? I want to make a trip to that area and the circuit is the obvious trip to make, just wondering if there were any other options worth looking at. I've done it too and agree with Alan, it is cool and good and loving awesome and highly recommended. I was there this time last year, made a post about it when I got back in the Everest thread with some pictures and info if you want to have a look. Aphex- posted:Annapurna goodness
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Oct 12, 2017 10:53
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Guest2553 posted:
It's completely true. Gear in Canada is ridiculously expensive. It's like there's an import tarriff or something. Our best choice is MEC brand but even they've been going up significantly over the years because they have no real competition in that price range. When I went to Utah with a bunch of fellow students we loaded up on gear at REI because it was so cheap even with the exchange rate. We also hit the Patagonia Outlet in Dillon on our way down because that doesn't exist where we live.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:12
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I lived in the US for a couple years and took advantage of some of the shopping (though not as much as I should have - didn't decide to buy down stuff until after moving back  ) I lived close-ish to a Colombia Outlet which always had some kickin' rad deals and insane discount stacking - waterproof trail shoes set me back $40, 6 oz rainjacket for $17, plus they weird volume discounts where you could spend less by buying a couple more items to make it to the next discount bracket. It was cool to save money but I do not miss living in a southern state.
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Oct 12, 2017 14:52
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Pantsmaster Bill posted:Has anyone in here done the Annapurna circuit or something similar in the Himalayas? I want to make a trip to that area and the circuit is the obvious trip to make, just wondering if there were any other options worth looking at. Keep in mind I've never done it (though it's a wish list item for me too), but here's an interesting article I just read which recommends the Manaslu Trek instead, because of development and changing conditions on the Annapurna: http://www.cheapestdestinationsblog.com/2015/01/29/the-annapurna-circuit-aint-what-it-used-to-be/
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Oct 13, 2017 17:41
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Not quite backpacking but I spent a night this week at a friend's lakeside cottage for beer money (some of the perks without any of the hassle!). It was fully equipped, including a couple canoes, so I took my 3 year old babby out on the lake. He loved it, even after falling into the water when someone (mostly me) tipped it over trying to grab the dock. We would have gone back out but my sensible wife stopped us - I didn't appreciate how cold it was out because my mostly fleece and wool clothing retained heat very nicely. Anyways, the moral of the story is that I am going to buy a packraft next time I see them on massdrop because I forgot how much fun it was being on the water 
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Oct 14, 2017 02:59
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Guest2553 posted:Not quite backpacking but I spent a night this week at a friend's lakeside cottage for beer money (some of the perks without any of the hassle!). It was fully equipped, including a couple canoes, so I took my 3 year old babby out on the lake. He loved it, even after falling into the water when someone (mostly me) tipped it over trying to grab the dock. We would have gone back out but my sensible wife stopped us - I didn't appreciate how cold it was out because my mostly fleece and wool clothing retained heat very nicely. Isn't a packraft just basically a glorified pool toy? I'd get a legit kayak and hop on meetup and find a paddling group to go out with in your area. If you don't have space to store one or a roofrack or transport a kayak, you should look at an Oru folding Kayak:  I bought one earlier this year and have since taken it on a bunch of multi day trips and all over, and it's performed admirably, every time.
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Oct 15, 2017 12:24
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