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As long as UT is lead by Putin there will only ever be temporary alliances. The guys is so realpolitik he'd melt down old people & kittens into meat bullets if no one would notice. The best outcome to this situation we can hope for is avoiding direct confrontation until he dies of old age & his successor pulls a Maduro & turns everyone against him.
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Oct 3, 2017 20:47
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Between medical advances and the universe's sense of humor, Putes is gonna live to like 300 and be lucid the entire way. Waiting for him to die probably isn't an option, but trying to bump him off and take advantage of the ensuing power struggle is.... probably insane, but at least on the table.
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Oct 3, 2017 21:02
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1) B. Facility can speak to our leadership, but due to current tensions and the apparent untrustworthiness of Terran command, we can't claim that Terran leadership are actually in a position to act on any Intel Facility may provide, and thus do not meet Facilities requirements. 2): Tell the UT they can kiss our proud Martian asses, with plenty of tongue action. They want to try some Darth Vader "we have altered the deal" bullshit, but that doesn't work when we have interplanetary nukes too. If they're that interested in OUR system, we'll be amiable to listening to their proposal to pay us (heavily, in advance) in technology and resources for access. If they don't want to pay the toll, they can get the gently caress off our bridge. We had people blow up A MOON to try and scare us, you think we're afraid of them now?
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Oct 3, 2017 21:08
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sniper4625 posted:What if...we made friends with Earth? That would be the sensible choice, so of course we'll do no such thing. Crazycryodude posted:Between medical advances and the universe's sense of humor, Putes is gonna live to like 300 and be lucid the entire way. Waiting for him to die probably isn't an option, but trying to bump him off and take advantage of the ensuing power struggle is.... probably insane, but at least on the table. Seeing as he's ex-KGB, one of the savviest dudes around and no doubt surrounded by utterly loyal bodyguards, I'm not sure that's the best of plans, as nice as it would be for a scheming bastard of a rival to have an accident. I think we should probably tell the Terrans about Facility (C) and Friend Commuter fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 21:10
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LLSix posted:This version of C sounds potentially amusing. Also, full infodump to Facility. Also, also offer its scientist friend an official position. Facility Liaison and Chief Scientist of Pluto maybe? Something suitably important sounding to help her cut through red tape and keep people from bugging her. Maybe assign some of the marines there as permanent bodyguards for her and facility? I'm down.
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Oct 3, 2017 21:15
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Crazycryodude posted:Between medical advances and the universe's sense of humor, Putes is gonna live to like 300 and be lucid the entire way. Waiting for him to die probably isn't an option, but trying to bump him off and take advantage of the ensuing power struggle is.... probably insane, but at least on the table. I forward the proposal, that We should attempt to assassinate Putin, its not like that would backfire at all
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Oct 3, 2017 21:38
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If by assassinate you mean a good, well though out long term attempt rather than something desperate and off the hook, then let's go for it. With the life spans we are talking now we can afford to be patient, probably.
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Oct 3, 2017 22:12
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Let's just reuse one of the plans they had to take out Castro. Those were all sound plans, right?
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Oct 3, 2017 22:19
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Give Putin an exploding cigar. Wait, was that an actual Kill Castro scheme or a Looney Tunes gag? Or both?
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Oct 3, 2017 22:31
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Let's not gently caress with Putin.... yet.
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Oct 3, 2017 22:41
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Just saying that when the laughing terrors that live between the walls of reality start eating souls, whether or not those souls were born on the Red Planet or the Blue probably won't be a pressing concern. I like Bremen's idea. Starfleet ho!
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Oct 3, 2017 23:16
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Yeah good luck convincing Literally Putin to work together for the betterment of humanity. He's gonna immediately feed the entire human race to Azathoth the second it becomes profitable. Personal comfort and power is all he gives a poo poo about.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:19
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Starfleet would get its rear end kicked by extradimensional entities in 10 minutes. The only reason they didn't get stomped into the dirt by their enemies in the first place despite their inconsistent and hairbrained policies is because they had literally unlimited energy, and then the ability to turn that energy into anything they wanted through what was basically magic. If we want to go the peace and love in space route, maybe facility can hook us up with some kind of crazy alien tech that will make it less obvious that the only other power UT is aware of killed their leader and use that to off Putin, then use that as proof that we need to group up against aliens? Kind of a long shot, but somehow more likely to work than diplomacy with God Emperor Putin. Still think that's kind of a nutso idea. If we team up, they're basically just buying us out and they get all the control. It's like a business merger between a big company and a small company. They say the small company will get input, and people will be evaluated fairly to keep their jobs, etc, but really they're just buying the small company and gently caress you.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:30
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VanSandman posted:Let's not gently caress with Putin.... yet. No. But it's becoming increasingly obvious that he posses a literal existential threat to us, and military options probably aren't going to work. We need to start manoeuvring to get rid of him, if we leave it until we need him dead right now it will be far, far too late. It's not like he doesn't have plans to kill the entire martian HC cooking away, I'm sure.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:55
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Did I miss the memo where we thought we could defeat Terra in open warfare? Letting Facility meet with Martian leadership should give us an idea where that ship is sailing. But we should not let anyone know about Pluto, as it's our last ace in the hole at the moment. Now that the cat's out of the bag, it really isn't worth open warfare to fight over Ragni. I'm with Bremen in that we should secure rights to another jump point, and share Ragni with Earth. Ragni really was one in a million, but maybe lighting will strike twice. Nitis fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 23:57
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We probably can't beat Terra but they probably don't want to deal with what a pain in the rear end fighting us would be over this when what they're doing is pretty clearly bullshit. The goal is to make it look like we're taking a hard line and are willing to go to war for it so that working out a deal becomes a more attractive option. They don't really need to screw us over here so this should work.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:02
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The bigger concession you're giving up by renegotiating at the drop of the hat is that they can take anything they want from us at anytime and that all treaties are worthless, because they can just say "Oh, you ended up with something nice? No, we're renegotiating, you give that to us now. Maybe you can have a nice thing next time." We don't have to be able to win a war against them. We just have to look crazy enough that we're willing to fight one. MAD is still in effect, and even Putin has to respect that. Showing such obvious weakness will only lead to them coming for more.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:03
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We should reveal Facility to the Terrans and invite Putin to meet with Martian Leadership on Pluto to hash out an agreement... Meanwhile we convince facility that Putin is too dangerous to be left alive and is the biggest obstacle to human unity... Then the Terrans realize how dangerous aliens are and we work together and it all goes flawlessly just like Watchmen. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 00:07
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Zaodai posted:The bigger concession you're giving up by renegotiating at the drop of the hat is that they can take anything they want from us at anytime and that all treaties are worthless, because they can just say "Oh, you ended up with something nice? No, we're renegotiating, you give that to us now. Maybe you can have a nice thing next time." This is an excellent point that I hadn't considered. Zaodai posted:We don't have to be able to win a war against them. We just have to look crazy enough that we're willing to fight one. MAD is still in effect, and even Putin has to respect that. Showing such obvious weakness will only lead to them coming for more. I don't consider MAD to be an effective deterrent when the other party is, apparently, a narcissistic sociopath. I still believe we should share Ragni with Earth, only if we secure another jump point. However, it appears we need to play the diplo game, hardball style, to get there.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:18
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Nitis posted:I don't consider MAD to be an effective deterrent when the other party is, apparently, a narcissistic sociopath. On the other hand, he didn't become effectively the ruler of Earth by being a loving moron.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:21
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MAD still works here because Putin has to live on Earth (for now) and if Earth is an irradiated cinder, then he can't have crazy parties and double-annex Crimea or whatever it is he does for fun. Soon as he and his friends get some space dachas somewhere we can't touch, all bets are off. But for now it still works.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:23
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Crazycryodude posted:MAD still works here because Putin has to live on Earth (for now) and if Earth is an irradiated cinder, then he can't have crazy parties and double-annex Crimea or whatever it is he does for fun. Soon as he and his friends get some space dachas somewhere we can't touch, all bets are off. But for now it still works. Even then he still has to soooort of care, if only because it's hard to keep morale up when the homeworld of humanity and the bulk of the human race has been reduced to ash. In the short term, we can still use the implied threat of force to get a better deal. At the very least, if we show it now when we CAN use it, he might be less willing to call our bluff in an borderline situation like that in the future (though not frequently). +/- Zealots, baby!
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Oct 4, 2017 00:28
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Crazycryodude posted:MAD still works here because Putin has to live on Earth (for now) and if Earth is an irradiated cinder, then he can't have crazy parties and double-annex Crimea or whatever it is he does for fun. Soon as he and his friends get some space dachas somewhere we can't touch, all bets are off. But for now it still works. I'm probably overthinking this, but, if Ragni is at least one additional jump from Sol, are we sure Earth leadership doesn't already have a bolthole? I guess where I'm going with this, is that trying to bully the bully is will likely require a lot of bravado with potentially unstable persons (we don't know that Earth leadership hasn't been joyriding their jumpships). Is this where we draw the line in the sand? Ragni is huge, but let's not put ourselves out of the game with so much left to be explored.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:33
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If anything, we have the upper hand with MAD cause we have outer system colonies with real military infrastructure. Except for comet miners, every rock in Sol that has a UT flag on it is within strategic missile range or already has Martian ships above it. Earth has more reason to sweat than we do. Zaodai got to the heart of the matter. Earth thought they were pulling one over on us with the original treaty. Now, the very moment they found out the deal is good for us, they want a do-over so they can find some other way to screw us. There aren't equitable, friendly deals to be had, this is two superpowers jockeying for position. Either stick to our claims or get ready to be pushed around over and over as we fall behind.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:40
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where are we getting 'space putin is crazy' from? I think we should assume he's a rational acting motherfucker and squeeze him hard. current treaty stands, we'll sell scientific access.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:56
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TheWetFish posted:1 B You can speak to us Martians. also this
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Oct 4, 2017 00:59
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sebmojo posted:where are we getting 'space putin is crazy' from? I think we should assume he's a rational acting motherfucker and squeeze him hard. current treaty stands, we'll sell scientific access. From, uh, real Putin? The kleptocratic narcissistic dictator? E: Although I guess the thing to emphasize is that he's very much not "crazy." He's smart, experienced, and will fight hard to get what he wants. The thing to understand is that what he wants is a mansion full of 12 year old sex slaves and lots of money, not the betterment of humankind or whatever. He will act in a way that preserves the state and power structure he's a part of, but only because triggering MAD would get him nuked along with everyone else. Nothing about high-minded ideals and humanity banding together to push bravely into the dark as one race. So you tell him about Facility, or you let him push you around on the Rangi issue, or whatever, and he's just gonna see it as weakness and try to exploit it for his own personal gain. There's no such thing as good will with Earth right now. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 01:04
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 13 June 2052 Five days pass until the 13th of June with no word from Sol beyond they are negotiating with Terra. The ships obey orders to not interfere with the Terrans and keep a careful watch on their opposite numbers. Dubious distinction stays on the Sol JP to carry word if the Terrans start anything in Ranginui.  WIthin hours of each other the Pater Familias and Dendarii report their orbital scans complete.   The moon of the 6th planet has no minerals but there is an installation there of indeterminate purpose. However the real find is the fifth planet. The debris in orbit and the surface has a wealth of TNE's that can be extracted including an enormous amount of Duranium. The planet is a gold mine beyond its xenoarcheological benefits. The Xenoarcheological survey is also complete and Martian Teams begin to descend to inspect one of the enormous structures. Terran shuttles have been observed coming to and from one of the giant tower structures a separate (larger) structure is chosen for the Martian exploration efforts.  It's quite the find you have here.  In Sol: 13th June  Repair work continues on various Goon crewed ships and the amalgam of Triton Fleet and 9th Cruiser division is dispatched to join BC Victory watching over the Ranginui Jump point. Eta is approximately 8 days. Saros fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 01:12
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 14 June 2052  Seemingly every rock you turn over in this system has ruins or wreckage of some sort. It was obviously a very populated system at one point.  Strangely initial scans on the 6th panets 2nd moon indicate this outpost appears to be over a million years younger than the previously discovered ruins and seems to use a different technology and design base. It is still over three million years old and badly decayed so a much more thorough effort will be required to discover the details of its history. 15 June 2052 The Terran tone in informal discussions takes a turn for the worse as Mars refuses to order her ships to withdraw from the Ranginui system.  In a worrying escalation the UT force which was dispatched to Triton weeks ago is underway again. It has since returned to Ceres for over a week and picked up two Endeavour Jumpships, two more Seychelles destroyers and two more Luxembourg class fleet tenders who came in from the inner Solar system. Its course is outsystem towards the gas giants and Ranginui jump point but cannot be determined exactly at this point.  Rougly two hours later the news worsens. Earth announces it is sending its Ceres fleet to perform manouvers with the Titan free state. Mars command promises that Third fleet will be freed from its assignment on Titan to combine with Triton Fleet if the UT ships continue to travel outsystem. Long prepared plans are slowly put into action as Terra takes the sabre rattling a step further than she has in the past. Voting and discussion on the treaties with Earth is ongoing. Saros fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 01:59
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Can we get the TFS on the horn and have them say "uh, what maneuvers?" Earth better stay the gently caress out of our sphere of influence and that goes double for the JP. gently caress off, go home, this is our turf assholes. We're not backing down. Seriously not in the mood to play footsie with Vlad tonight, they can gently caress right off. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 02:02
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Typical UT bullshit. I just hope Facility can make a digital backup of my brain before I die in a hail of Terran missiles.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:13
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The current planetary alignment.  UT Ceres Fleet is 4.5 days from Titan and the Other force is about 9 days from either Uranus or the Ranganui jump point. Saros fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 02:13
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Any chance the SB could arrange an 'accidental' friendly fire incident among the Terran fleets? Either that, or contact the TFS and see if they can do anything about the Terran manuouevers. Sounds like the Terrans know they don't have a leg to stand on and are trying to strengthen their negotiating position. our negotiators should probably push for more concessions from dear Terra.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:15
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Yeah, this is the time to push them, not back down. Get whatever assets we can out in front of the IC fleets and have them go dark. IC crosses our line in the sand, start popping poo poo. I am not even slightly inclined to deal with Vlad's bullshit right now, they want a war they can loving have one.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:21
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gently caress it. Full infodump about Facility and the horrible things from beyond space broadcast in such a way that UT government can't stop its dissemination through the general populace. Follow up with a first strike on any UT forces past Mars orbit while Puts is still trying to stuff that political furball back in the box. +/- fanatics and I want to see if we can take em. But really, pound for pound our ships are better and UT has the whole fractious populace problem. Them having more ships doesn't matter if they have to keep half home or dissolve into a mass of rebellions. Not Alex fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 02:26
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah, this is the time to push them, not back down. Get whatever assets we can out in front of the IC fleets and have them go dark. IC crosses our line in the sand, start popping poo poo. I am not even slightly inclined to deal with Vlad's bullshit right now, they want a war they can loving have one. Works for me. And hey, you know those stealth bombers I said we should let IC keep? I bet they're not done dismantling them yet. Let's ring them up and ask them how much it costs to rent them for a month. Don't worry, we won't tell UT you didn't destroy them if you don't. Payment? How does your very own jump chain sound?
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Oct 4, 2017 02:32
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah, this is the time to push them, not back down. Get whatever assets we can out in front of the IC fleets and have them go dark. IC crosses our line in the sand, start popping poo poo. I am not even slightly inclined to deal with Vlad's bullshit right now, they want a war they can loving have one. LLSix posted:And hey, you know those stealth bombers I said we should let IC keep? I bet they're not done dismantling them yet. Let's ring them up and ask them how much it costs to rent them for a month. Don't worry, we won't tell UT you didn't destroy them if you don't. Payment? How does your very own jump chain sound?
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Oct 4, 2017 02:41
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Beyond just not reacting, we have to be proactive and turn the momentum around on Earth. They just pulled half their entire navy out of their docks to head rimward, including their entire Ceres fleet. I'm sure they left some DD's or whatever behind, but all the heavy assets are gone and Ceres has had rebel problems in the past. Take a BB squadron from Home Fleet and counter-move toward Ceres, they'll either be forced to abort their fleet heading for Titan or potentially lose a major fleet base right next to their JP.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:44
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There's planning going on in Discord right now for something suitably dramatic to make the point that we're not to be hosed with like this.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:51
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War, they plan war.
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Oct 4, 2017 03:01
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