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Ham Sandwiches posted:So the other guy that's giving me poo poo when I don't post enough when the meaningless price goes down how does that work??? It either matters or it doesn't matter, right? Or is it like some kind of dynamic inconsistency where it only matters when going down and doesn't matter anytime it goes up? The price definitely doesn't matter, and no one (except you) said that it does. He was just laughing at you for suddenly disappearing when the price tanked. That doesn't mean that he thinks that the price is important Bitcoin is a speculative asset, its price has no bearing on its utility or whether or not bitcoiners will continue doing hilarious things
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Oct 7, 2017 11:11
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I'm really curious how hard you went with your arguments given the things you've stated on these forums, it will be fascinating to see the nuanced view you take. After all of this time, you still don't get it. Laughing at bitcoiners is not something that you can be wrong about. All of the people insuring investments in the Pirate@40 ponzi were themselves fully investing customer funds in the ponzi. That's objectively funny. There's nothing you can do or say that will change that. Changing that would require some kind of history-altering time machine And when someone points out that bitcoin uses the same amount of electricity as a small country just to process a fraction of Visa's daily transaction volume, that's just a fact. There's nothing to be wrong about there, either. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 11:17
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Every time you use bit's coins, Libertarian Jesus smiles in heaven. Please consider using bobscoin.
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Oct 7, 2017 11:33
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I'm investing in Ham Sandwiches, his post count is going up uP UP! 10% of the posts in this thread are his, he's made the most posts and more than twice as many as the next most prolific poster. I don't care that the posts are backed by poo poo and garbage, you can't argue with those stats!
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Oct 7, 2017 12:14
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it is possible to make money in a ponzi scheme therefor they are the currencies of the future
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Oct 7, 2017 13:32
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the fact that the coins are being manipulated is insanely loving awesome because that gives the market weird little tells that let me know when to invest more and when to dump.
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Oct 7, 2017 14:59
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I go to sleep and you people scream at each other about the butts coins without me I have been betrayed Anyway, I just woke up and I'm a bit groggy, so forgive me my trespasses if my financial screeching has some malapropisms, or something. Really, let's get to work on some explanations. Bitcoin is used for illegal transactions, but it's extremely important that people understand it isn't any good for those transactions. Somehow, people managed to be convinced that a form of currency where every transaction is tracked all the time and put out publicly is anonymous. The man who managed to trick people into this is far better at convincing people of things than I am, so I'm really glad he's not trying to get me into Bitcoin. The reason anyone gets away with using it to buy drugs is that acquiring drugs across state lines in the way that people tend to with it is a Federal issue, and the Federal government has more poo poo to care about than investigating a man buying a single gram of weed on the internet. Don't do it anyway, though, because crime is bad.(Also because they can literally always just look back and find out that you did it.) As for your addressing of my post, you're far too hung up on the gambling thing; there are many, many kinds of investments, and some are riskier than others. I would certainly call some of the riskier ones gambling; gambling is, in my eyes, playing a game of chance for money where you have no real ability to influence the outcome and are likely to lose your entire capital. In Bitcoin, there are no real loss mitigation strategies other than ceasing your use of Bitcoin; it's backed by nothing, and you have no recourse if people just...stop wanting to buy it, which is more likely than not considering there's really no reason to do so. The lack of regulation also rings of a gambling sort of situation. As for Bitcoin being a "new thing", it really isn't. The way in which it works is very similar to unregulated securities, as of current, and I honestly do not comprehend what issues relative to fiat currency it is meant to solve. It seems like a prevailing thought is that 'big gov' is bad, and therefore Bitcoin will give us freedom from it. However, currency is not able to exist in a vacuum like that. It needs to be backed by something in order to actually give people confidence in it, and Bitcoin isn't backed by anything at all. It's the metaphorical Zimbabwe dollars you decry as worthless; nobody can trust that it has any worth because it honestly does not. In a sense, no currency has actual worth; they're all just pieces of paper. Trust in the government gives these things worth, and there is no regulatory institution to trust in for Bitcoin. This is not a good thing and will never be a good thing; counterfeiting Bitcoin is currently not a thing that's done, but that's because it just wouldn't be profitable. If you honestly don't believe it would be counterfeited to literal death the moment anyone with the acumen to do so thought it was worth getting into, I don't know what to tell you. Past that, getting into the technical failings of Bitcoin, you can't have an everyday currency that can take hours to charge a transaction. If you'd like to pithily state that credit cards can, at times, take hours to clear a pending transaction, I'd tell you these are immensely different; the business is aware that they are guaranteed that money by the massive financial institution that backs the credit card, and you have no need to stay there until the charge clears. If they're not guaranteed that money, you're probably not going to be able to just walk out. There's also a massive issue with how simple it is to run Bitcoin into a brick wall through something as trivial as a 51% attack, meaning that any government having any trust in it would be impossible unless they controlled the vast majority of the hash power, thereby making it regulated by the government, pretty much making Bitcoin just a much less efficient currency. Of course financial systems are being gamed by corporations, and yes, the government works to try and stop this where they can. This isn't a grand revelation that revealing or knowing about is special; it's literally just the concept of illegal trading and government regulations. The simple fact of the matter is that fiat currency works because people trust the government. If you do not trust the government to a point where you cannot trust the currency, you are either in an extremely bad place where computer cash can't help you much or you're a crazy man who should be stockpiling cans of beans instead of proof of wasted electricity. Saying that "No nation state can seize the Bitcoin market!" is not only not a good argument, it's just loving wrong. If literally any large scale nation felt like it, they could task a single agency with taking over the Bitcoin market and do that within a couple of weeks. It would not be possible for any individual to compete if the United States government decided to simply take the network by beginning mining efforts and investing a fraction of a percent of the budget it uses on toilet paper into it. The nature of Bitcoin means that literally anyone can start printing them if they have enough hash power, outpace everyone else to the point that they are literally the only ones who can ever print more, and you absolutely cannot compete with a government's ability to do that. Nobody can. This one is especially egregious to me because it presents an utter lack of knowledge of not only how financial systems work, but also how the thing you yourself are advocating for works on a technical level. I don't comprehend how anyone who knows anything about Bitcoin, technically nonsensical and poorly coded as it is, could believe this. Bitcoin has a massive amount of technical issues that make it absolutely worthless for most applications and run utterly counter to its touted strengths; a nationless currency that any nation with the inclination to could crush, that works anonymously but displays every transaction publicly. Let's move onto your last point: Yes, valuation of startups is nonsensical and primarily caused by the ridiculous valuation of things like Facebook. People are just pouring money onto anything that looks good because they don't comprehend how the product actually works or why faith in that company is going up, simply that it is going up; this is similar to Bitcoin in that it's basically people having confidence in something they do not comprehend and pouring money into it. These are both bad things. Getting punched in the face is an alternative to getting punched in the stomach, and I would prefer neither. You also seem to take offense at Bitcoin being called a scam, and primarily seem to take offense because you seem to take it as people meaning that money cannot be made on scams. The contrary is quite true, however; it's very easy to make money on a scam, if you're the one doing the scamming. It's morally reprehensible, however, even if you sincerely believe that what you're doing is above board. Let me give an example: Imagine that a man offers to sell you a bridge for five dollars. Five dollars! That's quite a good price for a whole bridge. You give the man the five dollars, happy with your savvy investment strategy. A while later, you offer another man the bridge for ten dollars. That man thinks it's quite a good deal to buy a bridge for ten dollars! Giving you the money and letting you walk off with your rightly earned princely sum of five dollars, he's very satisfied with himself, a proud bridge owner. However, of course, the original man never owned the bridge to sell you. By selling the bridge to someone else, you've done nothing but foist off the worthless idea of owning it to another person; but, of course, you have five extra dollars. This is similar to Bitcoin. It goes down the line until everybody realizes that none of you actually owns the bridge, and the last person who was tricked is left having lost the game of hot potato. These effort posts really get the blood pumping.
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Oct 7, 2017 15:18
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sir this is a mcdonald's drive through (I did read all of that though)
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Oct 7, 2017 15:36
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Stefan Prodan posted:sir this is a mcdonald's drive through I would like to purchase a burrito, thank you
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Oct 7, 2017 15:38
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Paladinus posted:Remember when robbers have stolen 1% of all existing money in the world in one day? That was pretty bad. To be fair, I hope everyone remembers Bernie Maddoff and the poo poo chain of events he unleashed. Really, the current financial system is terrible too. The question is which one is funnier
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Oct 7, 2017 16:18
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David Heinrich posted:I go to sleep and you people scream at each other about the butts coins without me To be fair to butts, they are actually about as hard to counterfeit as possible. People just steal them instead, because computer security is absurdly hard when you're an actual target. Being your own bank means being your own security, and exchanges just have a miserable track record. Similarly, bitcoins are pretty anonymous as long as you can prevent your real ID from ever intersecting with the numbers representing your wallet. Again, this is very very hard and thus all the busts. That said, being hugely inefficient, slow and poor scaling, butts are a kind of awful currency. The (no) fees alone have killed the idea of any small purchases being made with it. It is mostly treated as a speculative asset at this point, which is pretty hilarious considering that the thing they claim will give it value is its usefulness as a currency. Regardless of the debate for usefulness, bitcoin is objectively funny. A perfect mix of dumb scams, dumb political ideologies and dumb technical components.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:11
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Bitcoins are hard to counterfeit, since they're basically just entries in a transaction ledger, but on the other hand, double-spending (where you send bitcoins to one person, then send them to another person and get the network to add your second transaction into the ledger instead of the first) is much easier, especially if the party you're trying to scam doesn't wait for confirmations.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:39
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Djeser posted:Bitcoins are hard to counterfeit, since they're basically just entries in a transaction ledger, but on the other hand, double-spending (where you send bitcoins to one person, then send them to another person and get the network to add your second transaction into the ledger instead of the first) is much easier, especially if the party you're trying to scam doesn't wait for confirmations. Pshh, easily solved by waiting (on average) half an hour for three confirmations.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:57
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MrAptronym posted:Pshh, easily solved by waiting (on average) half an hour for three confirmations.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:34
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:To be fair, I hope everyone remembers Bernie Maddoff and the poo poo chain of events he unleashed. Really, the current financial system is terrible too. The question is which one is funnier The answer is Bobby Bonilla day. No question.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:03
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The New York Mets have paid Bobby Bonilla about $1 2M every July 1st since 2011 and will continue to do so for the 18 years. All so they could get out of a $6M contract. Because when the Mets cut him by paying him a deferred $30M, took that $6M and invested it in a ponzi scheme.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:10
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Odd that Ham got the effort post he was looking for and is somehow nowhere to be found.
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Oct 8, 2017 04:05
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Do effortposts matter or do they not? Why are you complaining that he's posting when people don't effortpost but not posting when people do? Are you some kind of goon bully here to stop him from investing by calling unregistered securities gambling??????
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Oct 8, 2017 04:19
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exploded mummy posted:The New York Mets have paid Bobby Bonilla about $1 2M every July 1st since 2011 and will continue to do so for the 18 years. Actually it was a smart move on paper, they just hosed it up by investing in a ponzi scheme. http://www.businessinsider.com/mets-bobby-bonilla-deal-smart-2015-7
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Oct 8, 2017 04:51
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Regrettable posted:Odd that Ham got the effort post he was looking for and is somehow nowhere to be found. proof that George Soros is getting his money's worth by paying all of us to make fun of bitcoin
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Oct 8, 2017 07:03
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I made a few thousand on Bitcoin when it was just out - I think I put in $100, and ended up with about $6k, sold out early because I was sure it was going to collapse. Which it didn't! Now I trade them as any other stock, on Etoro - CFDs. For some reason I don't think you can use it in the US. But I am up $10k since I started (not just Bitcoin, I do normal stocks as well). I don't own any bitcoin, it's far too volatile and could dump all my profits while I am asleep )whereas NASDAQ and the like have defined trading hours) - I just buy in at the lows, then sell at the highs. Like any other stock, basically. It's done me well enough, and I'll keep trading until it eventually dies/"Goes to da moon!", whatever. No idea what will happen to it, it could be a huge bubble as countries around the world continue to ban it, or banks bring out their own cryptocurrencies - But I make a profit on it every single day, whether by shorting it or buying it. Suits me, Sir... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI4DC6Vxbkk
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Oct 8, 2017 08:29
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Bitcoin cannot fail, it can only be failed.
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Oct 8, 2017 08:35
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Regrettable posted:Odd that Ham got the effort post he was looking for and is somehow nowhere to be found. you know he'll be back in a few weeks, posting the same things again as if nothing happened, attributing weird versions of claims to the wrong posters i still made more money from bitcoin than him though
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Oct 8, 2017 10:34
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I've probably made more money on pogs back in school than 99% of buttlords have on bitcoins.
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Oct 8, 2017 12:17
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Why would banks ever launch their own crypto coin? Having a central entity literally defeats the entire purpose. You may as well "invest" in a store's gift cards, since that would be the exact same
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Oct 8, 2017 12:59
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That is the reason - it wouldn't be intended as a speculative currency, and would probably never be used or bought outside the banking network.
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Oct 8, 2017 13:04
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Sentient Data posted:Why would banks ever launch their own crypto coin? Having a central entity literally defeats the entire purpose. You may as well "invest" in a store's gift cards, since that would be the exact same buzzword compatibility, of course banks occasionally run a Blockchain(tm) trial and discover, amazingly enough that actually it's complete garbage [self-post]
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Oct 8, 2017 13:26
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divabot posted:you know he'll be back in a few weeks, posting the same things again as if nothing happened, attributing weird versions of claims to the wrong posters I will return with more giant loving effort posts, hoping that he will stare at them and slink away
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Oct 8, 2017 14:33
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Djeser posted:Do effortposts matter or do they not? Why are you complaining that he's posting when people don't effortpost but not posting when people do? Are you some kind of goon bully here to stop him from investing by calling unregistered securities gambling?????? is there a name for when someone sees a contradiction where there isn't one?
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Oct 8, 2017 22:34
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evilweasel posted:if the US failed I'd really like to know the specifics of the scenario where the US fails to a USD=$0 point but the internet still works.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:46
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if it was only that it would be fine but the collapse of every economy on earth would probably make for complications
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Oct 9, 2017 14:52
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hmm even after that news about the chinese exchanges the speculative internet dollars are still going up....
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Oct 9, 2017 20:50
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Buy high because it will always go higher.
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Oct 9, 2017 23:02
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scott zoloft posted:hmm even after that news about the chinese exchanges the speculative internet dollars are still going up....
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Oct 10, 2017 07:51
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HerStuddMuffin posted:It's almost as if the price isn't grounded in reality but is just an arbitrary number that a handful of people set to whatever they want in order to fleece rubes... lol salty bitch
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Oct 10, 2017 08:30
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univbee posted:I'd really like to know the specifics of the scenario where the US fails to a USD=$0 point but the internet still works. continued supplies of high powered computing machinery, ASIC foundries, internet connectivity and electricity are absolutely assured in the grim meathook Mad Max petrolpunk future. and we can use colloidal Litecoin for antibiotics.
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Oct 10, 2017 11:58
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"Do not, my friends, become addicted to fiat. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence." ...huh, that's actually good advice.
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Oct 10, 2017 12:47
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Wow, I hadnt seen this thread pop up for months and then...😳 The only thing bitcoins will ever truly be good for is comedy. Like watching Ham Sandwiches straight up scream into the void while every single other poster dunks on him over and over and over. Good times, man.
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Oct 11, 2017 05:32
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it happens in every bitcoin thread too. like for years now
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Oct 11, 2017 06:27
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Dude in the Netherlands thinks the future is bright for buttcoins: https://amp.businessinsider.com/man-in-the-netherlands-sold-everything-for-bitcoin-2017-10
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Oct 11, 2017 18:36
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