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Thronde
Aug 4, 2012

Fun Shoe

Beet Wagon posted:

It's an old term for Cajuns that falls somewhere between "We reclaimed this and it's a badge of pride now" and "Dude you know that's an ethnic slur right, what the gently caress?" depending on the person you say it to, and whether or not you're Cajun yourself.

Pretty much this. And I don't even use it. Not because I feel some way about it, I just don't seen to have it in my vocabulary.

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Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

SpaceCurtisLeMay posted:

I have a gaming buddy who works on HFT programs for a hedge fund and they pay top dollar to have the closest servers in the same data center as major exchanges. Give you an idea, he rewrote an algorithm and shaved 2 milliseconds off the transaction time and received close to a $1M bonus for doing so because said 2ms advantage would make the hedge fund tens of millions of dollars over their competitors. And he would talk about the very things you are discussing. We discussed Star Citizen years ago and both of us had the same conclusion that massive space battles would end up as disasters.

The two things we always came back to was if things were instance, the side who could overwhelm enough instances to eventually get one where your opponents had few or no opposition would win and that the larger instances would likely be lag fests. Not as big of a deal in a game like EVE where dice rolls and stats determine hit/miss but in a twitch based game where your aim matters, especially for targeting sub systems, it was not going to end well.

I get quite a few hours a year behind a tractor, which is frankly mind numbingly dull, to think about things and I've tried to think of better ways it could be done only to conclude that Frontier's use of indirect mechanics is the only solution that makes sense. In elite, opposing factions fill what is basically their side of a scale. After x amount of time the faction with most points/kills/trade tips the scale in their favor and wins. A lot of people hate this mechanic because it is not direct action. You can't go after the people causing it and instead must do your own activities, completely separated, in order to counter them. It becomes a "whomever can herd the most cats" who wins (but that's battles in any MMO more often than not). Still with instancing, multiple game modes on multiple platforms I can't think of a better way.

I retired at 40, companies pay top dollar for these things. I barely worked 20 years and 12 of those at SONY. I retired after i shaved did some optimization work for Bloomberg. Usually when i tell these stories people don't believe me as it does admittedly seems a little crazy once you enter microsecond territory of optimization.

I 100% agree with you on the indirect approach to large scale PvP. It's the only sensible way to do it and it also opens up a lot of exciting new possibilities that a simple space pew pew battle will never give you.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

trucutru posted:

I remember, a long time ago, having some friends come over to play Jet Set Radio on my Dreamcast (best fighting game console ever) the day the game came out. And one of them mentioned just how much work must have been to animate all those freaking sprites on every angle possible.

The thing is, had Chris Roberts been making games at that moment, he would certainly have rotoscoped a bunch of dudes skating from all angles to spend a couple of years making a few gigabytes of sprites. (And then he would have, like, layered physics and a game on top of that.)

I'm glad your console is dead

McGiggins
Apr 4, 2014

by R. Guyovich
Lipstick Apathy

The Titanic posted:

Little bit harsh, friend. :(

You just don't understand fiscal responsibility development. :v:

And I'm not saying all fundies are bad, nothing wrong with having successful parents. But those people who waste it... Ooh, it burns my balls it does.

If you're a fundie, I mean no disrespect if you've learned the lesson. I know that getting loaded up with unrealistic expectations and promises of an easy passage can easily accompany a severe sinking feeling as the truth of your situation comes to light.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice
3.0.0b is out to Evocati. The patch notes (that's not public yet, so you won't be able to login) are truly hilarious. It will be exported and on Pastebin shortly.

Here's the thing. The same poo poo they did with the original 3.0.0 and the 3.0.0a (which came after the weekend release) is what they've done again with this one. You can't tell wtf they've fixed or addressed because there is no distinction between what they fixed now, before, or what is still an issue. They just lump everything in there to make it look like, well, I dunno really what they were going for there. Not to mention the fact that they listed items which they are claiming is already implemented, but as of yesterday, 93% of what they claim is in 3.0, isn't actually IN these builds.

Also, when you consider this bullshit:

"We're expecting many new players so we wanted to make sure the [3.0] user experience is *really good*. So we've decided to spend more time optimizing and polishing then we have for recent releases"

...you have to wonder wtf they're actually talking about. There are currently over 3000+ bugs in Issue Council for 2.6.3. And with this 3.0, it's safe to say that there are going to be thousands more - which will probably never be fixed. They will get it to "good enough", then gently caress off to go do something else that's about making money from whales.

As I've said before, most times, half the poo poo they show to backers, is all made to generate hype, running local (like at the shows) client/server, or in an editor. Which means that the live experience will be totally different, and complete rubbish.

Here's the example of the Nox parking in the Cutlass.

ATV (July):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mZbmu_Th5c

3.0 Evocati (Oct):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-wMcs-2lbQ

It's all poo poo. They really just rushed this build out to Evocati because of CitizenCon, which is probably when they plan to release it to the PTU.

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Oct 10, 2017

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/Wiborg1978/status/917720003864088576

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
http://i.imgur.com/d3K8sYx.gifv

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

D_Smart posted:

3.0.0b is out to Evocati.

There's fire in the sky but you've got your head in the ground

toanoradian
May 31, 2011


The happiest waffligator
Derek, do you see them releasing a further revision of 3.0, like, 3.0.0c just to keep their promise of 3.0 being that really good one?

Maybe 4.0 isn't the Jesus Patch, but just 3.0.0.1.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

New Star Wars Trailer is pretty good, what do you think of the physics at play?

Richie Stardust
Mar 30, 2016

Sillybones posted:

What is a 'coon-asses'? That only means super racist things to me.

Coon-rear end is a lost Acadien. It's a colloquialism in Louisiana, East Texas, and parts of Florida. The term carries no evil here. Sorry for the offense.

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

and... "ahaaahahahahahah... I just couldn't seriously finish that sentence".

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

D_Smart posted:

Also, when you consider this bullshit:

"We're expecting many new players so we wanted to make sure the [3.0] user experience is *really good*. So we've decided to spend more time optimizing and polishing then we have for recent releases".

A year, and they’re concerned with ‘polish’.

Some people assume that this thing is largely complete and just needs little problems sorting out. We see more fundamental problems, such as apparently relying on some open source netcode and not actually figuring out the issues with z-fighting, or the floating point jitters. They see a small gap to completion, we see a chasm.

IcarusUpHigh
Dec 20, 2016

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/75gp49/happy_birthday_star_citizen/

What a fuckin' waste of 5 years.

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat

So pretty boring then?

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Remember though, it's not been five years, except for when it has.

kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001
It has also been a year since Citizen Con 2016. Which actually had a fair bit of positive publicity. Threads like this with 50,000 upvotes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/56xtzr/star_citizen_planet_to_planet_quantum_jumping/

Talk about piss away a massive amount of goodwill with incompetent development.

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat
I forget with all the stuff that happens with this fiasco, but did we already know that these guys have been making models and ships for CiG?

https://cgbot.com/home-extended/portfolio-2/

It's like every time I turn around they have yet another outside company doing their work. WTF are their crews even doing?

Contingency
Jun 2, 2007

MURDERER

Lladre posted:

I forget with all the stuff that happens with this fiasco, but did we already know that these guys have been making models and ships for CiG?

https://cgbot.com/home-extended/portfolio-2/

It's like every time I turn around they have yet another outside company doing their work. WTF are their crews even doing?

Refactoring jackets. Sometimes boots.

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

D_Smart posted:

"We're expecting many new players so we wanted to make sure the [3.0] user experience is *really good*. So we've decided to spend more time optimizing and polishing then we have for recent releases"
They've used this excuse as the reason literally every loving release is late, all the way back to Arena Commander.

Every release is late. None of them are ever remotely polished. Yet the cult never calls them out on it.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

toanoradian posted:

Derek, do you see them releasing a further revision of 3.0, like, 3.0.0c just to keep their promise of 3.0 being that really good one?

Maybe 4.0 isn't the Jesus Patch, but just 3.0.0.1.

Oh most definitely. I believe that 3.0x is the end of the line. They're going to keep refactoring and iterating until the wheels come off. There's so much they promised for 3.0, that it will take another 3-4 years to complete it - before they even start thinking about 4.0.

If they DO survive the next few months, they will do what they've always done. That being, implement the promised features which they can, walk back or ignore those they can't, then leave them in a buggy state. Which is how we get 3000+ bugs currently in 2.6.3. But they're promoting shiny new things in 3.0 which are just the same rubbish that's never getting fixed.

1) Performance is still poo poo. And it got worse with this build, and it's only going to get even worse when MORE people are able to play it.

2) Netwworking is still poo poo. But we already knew that. And back when I said they'd be loving dumb to touch this poo poo at this point, some people thought I was mad. Until they removed the critical aspects of this from the dev schedule. We've now experienced the results in 3.0 - and they're NEVER going to be able to fix it. It's too late, and they're too far gone. 1000+ client MMO? gently caress you, and get off my ship!

3) Physics is still poo poo; but somehow they managed to make it a LOT worse in 3.0.

4) The much touted Subsumptionm AI is NON-loving-EXISTENT. It's just scripted NPCs hanging around, glitching, and doing gently caress all but taking up space and impacting performance even more.

5) Mission givers don't work. Oh you want a mission, do you? Go ask Miles over there. Assuming he's at the loving table, and not floating off 20 feet away - glass in hand.

6) The much touted "planetary tech" is as underwhelming as it is mindboggingly boring. And it's buggy as hell. And barren. The one location, Levski, is an absolute slideshow. And that's with just you and the environment.

And that's with two loving moons and an asteroid. So much for this:



7) UI, well, I don't even know about that one. But then again, not that I am the one to talk; after all I'm the guy who develops games with the most ridiculous UI, you need to be on the autism spectrum to comprehend it. And that loving ESC key, man. :negative:

8) There is absolutely NOTHING worth doing in 3.0. Seriously, NOTHING. When backers get this, assuming they can get in a ship, fly to a planet, and enter it - the spectacle will be over in all of 20 mins. Guaranteed. Then, the streamers are going to be doing the same repetitive bullshit for weeks on end because, well, they have nothing.

It's all still a glorified $160M tech demo that's not even a vertical slice, if you can believe that.

What Evocati are now seeing in 3.0 is PRECISELY the bane of these types of games. They're loving DULL AND BORING if you don't have people to play with, or a robust AI and mission system for solo engagements.

And in 3.0, good loving luck finding anyone. There could be 8 clients in your instance, and you'd NEVER see them. And when you do, there's NOTHING to do because there is no "game". Six loving years later.

Even ED suffers from this same thing, and that's why those who don't like it, call it boring. And the funny thing is, you could be peddling rubber dog poo poo for hours in ED, and get some "fun" from it because everything is just so well put together. Even in my BC/UC games; I spent DECADES developing and improving revolutionary AI (check out my recent 6hr live stream) to alleviate this problem - specifically. Which is why I never even bothered to spend too much time with multiplayer for those games.

This is an absolute travesty. I don't care what anyone says, they've basically blown through all this money, spent all this time - and have this poo poo to show for it.

I have said it before, I will say it again: someone is going to jail over this because there is NO way on Earth they get away with this. And a bunch of rear end-clowns are parked on Reddit creating bullshit theory-crafting threads, instead of inquiring about where the money has gone.

ps: For some reason, this oldie but goodie popped up in my Google Alerts notification.

Here was Derek Smart's predictions for CitizenCon 2015

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer
Please DO NOT quote these blocked clowns when they respond to me.
|AutismVaccine|big nipples big life|Chin|D1E|Jobbo_Fett|Lladre|Mr.Tophat|PhallicPhalanges|Variable 5|


I feel your goon-blocks should be represented on on linear timeline, rather then alphabetically. Maybe with a little description of each block, and a sign-off

For instance:

09/09/2017: AutismVaccine: Massive idiot had it coming, especially for (offence): "No one puts Dr.D in the corner"

or something

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,
star citizen. big loving nothingburger.

This whole 3.0 evocati release is still pretty eerie. I feel like a lone wolf gunslinger walking through a deserted gold rush town looking for my nemesis for the final showdown. As a single tumbleweed rolls by I notice there's a bunch of crows and buzzards circling something just out of view.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

his nibs posted:

Please DO NOT quote these blocked clowns when they respond to me.
|AutismVaccine|big nipples big life|Chin|D1E|Jobbo_Fett|Lladre|Mr.Tophat|PhallicPhalanges|Variable 5|


I feel your goon-blocks should be represented on on linear timeline, rather then alphabetically. Maybe with a little description of each block, and a sign-off

For instance:

09/09/2017: AutismVaccine: Massive idiot had it coming, especially for (offence): "No one puts Dr.D in the corner"

or something

:yeah:


That or maybe Derek could link to his spreadsheet on all the various squabbles he's had over the internet throughout the years.

"Blocked Peter Molyneux on Facebook - July 14th 2013 - Fucker kept trying to sell me Godus. I HATE GODUS."

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

IncredibleIgloo posted:

Can we put a moratorium on the gun/shooting chat? I lost a family member(extended, not immediate) in the shooting and it really has been bumming me out. We can, of course, have opinions on it, but can we keep it in D&D/Facebook/GBS? I want to read this thread to cheer me up, not hear hot takes on a massacre.

That loving sucks, and you have my condolences. I agree with Beet on this one.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

his nibs posted:

Please DO NOT quote these blocked clowns when they respond to me.
|AutismVaccine|big nipples big life|Chin|D1E|Jobbo_Fett|Lladre|Mr.Tophat|PhallicPhalanges|Variable 5|


I feel your goon-blocks should be represented on on linear timeline, rather then alphabetically. Maybe with a little description of each block, and a sign-off

For instance:

09/09/2017: AutismVaccine: Massive idiot had it coming, especially for (offence): "No one puts Dr.D in the corner"

or something

I already got a sixer (over at GBS) because it was more than 3 lines long. That's why I had to trim it.

ps: Oh look, I have a new avatar! 10 bux well spent, I say! :D

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Toops posted:

star citizen. big loving nothingburger.

This whole 3.0 evocati release is still pretty eerie. I feel like a lone wolf gunslinger walking through a deserted gold rush town looking for my nemesis for the final showdown. As a single tumbleweed rolls by I notice there's a bunch of crows and buzzards circling something just out of view.

The worst thing about this 3.0 is that there is just nothing to say about it. It's exactly as bad as we've all been saying for months, so it comes out and is basically, "Well, yup."

The leak of the Nox pulling into the ship was funny, but what can you really say about it after a handful of posts. The 15 minute video of sitting in your helmet playing with the map, how can you even respond to that?

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

D_Smart posted:

ps: Oh look, I have a new avatar! 10 bux well spent, I say! :D

That one's pretty decent. Way better than having to look at that stupid smiley dog.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

Richie Stardust posted:

Coon-rear end is a lost Acadien. It's a colloquialism in Louisiana, East Texas, and parts of Florida. The term carries no evil here. Sorry for the offense.

No offence. I was interested.

SpaceCurtisLeMay
Sep 30, 2016

We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Krycek posted:

The last patch made using the galaxy map in vr a lot better, even when using the mouse. And there is a setting under graphics called something like "horizon lock," I forget the exact wording, but it makes driving not complete poo poo.

My issue with driving has to do more with frame rates and screen tearing than anything else. Which I'm only on a 970. Was going to upgrade to a new video card this year, but then the whole crypto currency mining came back and a 1070 went from $350 to $450 currently. Couple months ago a 1080 was only $40 more than 1070's on amazon. But I think I'm going to wait for Volta before buying a new card.

Although next year it may be time to build an entire new machine. Core of this one is 5 years old, but still is 3.4Ghz and I don't overclocking so I guess the big factor will be if the next 11xx series cards from Nvidia will still run on a PCI-E 2.1 bus or not.

SpaceCurtisLeMay fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Oct 10, 2017

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

D_Smart posted:

6) The much touted "planetary tech" is as underwhelming as it is mindboggingly boring. And it's buggy as hell. And barren. The one location, Levski, is an absolute slideshow. And that's with just you and the environment.

And that's with two loving moons and an asteroid. So much for this:



My bar was so low, I didn't even think they had any planetary tech working in any form. So, I have pledged in again. Looking for people to join my org. cu'nt-verse.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





D_Smart posted:


8) There is absolutely NOTHING worth doing in 3.0. Seriously, NOTHING. When backers get this, assuming they can get in a ship, fly to a planet, and enter it - the spectacle will be over in all of 20 mins. Guaranteed. Then, the streamers are going to be doing the same repetitive bullshit for weeks on end because, well, they have nothing.


This is the big kicker for me that I still just can't wrap my head around citizen-think after all these years. Like all the other problems have been discussed in length in this thread - and handwaved away by citizens on reddit and youtube and wherever else. There's a million and one reasons why Star Citizen is impossible, and a million and one reasons why "Chris will figure it out!" but nobody can argue that there's anything fun about the game right now, which means there probably won't be anything fun in the future. It's a big issue with space games and something that SC fans are quick to poo poo on Elite for, and I can't for the life of me figure out how they think Star Citizen is magically going to make big empty spaces fun.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

Jobbo_Fett posted:

:yeah:


That or maybe Derek could link to his spreadsheet on all the various squabbles he's had over the internet throughout the years.

"Blocked Peter Molyneux on Facebook - July 14th 2013 - Fucker kept trying to sell me Godus. I HATE GODUS."

I can get behind this. Derek?


Now I'm confused as you're talking about Derek not to Derek, yet I've quoted you.

I don't understand goon-block-don't-quote-development :ohdear:

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
The world is a strange place, if you said 'coon rear end' where I live you'd hear a record player scratching sound and the floor would be covered with monocles.

Is there any news on how Big Bennies fits into 3.0? Can you still move them around and create epic emergent gameplay?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

D_Smart posted:

I already got a sixer (over at GBS) because it was more than 3 lines long. That's why I had to trim it.

ps: Oh look, I have a new avatar! 10 bux well spent, I say! :D

I'm using my mod contacts to get Derek's avatar changed constantly. This policy will only be stopped after he takes me off his ignore list.


:ssh:

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away
I don't really get it. Fun in space games for me is: Trading between stations. Shooting bad guys in space.

It doesn't sound like the hardest thing in the world to get right. Hell, give me a week and I will give you those two things with a nice space wrapper around it. The MMO and such is just details that we will wrap up later.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Yes commando, you can strap a vending machine to your space bike.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

his nibs posted:

I can get behind this. Derek?


Now I'm confused as you're talking about Derek not to Derek, yet I've quoted you.

I don't understand goon-block-don't-quote-development :ohdear:

Does anyone, really?

runsamok
Jan 12, 2011

Colostomy Bag posted:

Yes commando, you can strap a vending machine to your space bike.

But can other players see you do this or it still the case where one person gets to have fun while all his compatriots engage in a combination of terrible improve & mime?

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Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





his nibs posted:

I can get behind this. Derek?


Now I'm confused as you're talking about Derek not to Derek, yet I've quoted you.

I don't understand goon-block-don't-quote-development :ohdear:

Derek's finally making good posts again instead of quoting himself forever like a text-based infinity mirror, and y'all are gonna gently caress with him about his sig? That poo poo's old, bring in the new poo poo!


Sillybones posted:

I don't really get it. Fun in space games for me is: Trading between stations. Shooting bad guys in space.

It doesn't sound like the hardest thing in the world to get right. Hell, give me a week and I will give you those two things with a nice space wrapper around it. The MMO and such is just details that we will wrap up later.

I mean yeah, I like Elite for what it is: ETS in Space, but I also know it doesn't necessarily have a lot of staying power, for me at least. I'm content to log on and go space-truckin' once every six months or so and call it a day. I'd say it's "fun-adjacent" more than anything else. And I'm not making GBS threads on people who do find it fun. But in general there's a lot of work to wring fun out of big open games like that (hell, go check the GTAV thread) and citizens still think that SC is going to be some big "WoW in Space" with a million things to do that are all equally fun and important and poo poo, and it's just... I won't say not possible but I will say extremely unlikely.

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