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Okay but where did the bird go, does it only take birds?
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Oct 13, 2017 02:54
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OwlFancier posted:
By this logic half or Martian Goon Command should not be allowed access to it either. Saving lives is what I'm all about here.
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Oct 13, 2017 02:56
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Institute mass conscription. All able-bodied young Martians shall spend one year in cadet training, one year serving in-system, and one year in the jump corps. Military jump capability is an absolute necessity for the continuation of the Martian way of life. But no fortunate sons will enrich themselves in safety while their brethren risk life and health. No, all shall contribute equally, serving uniform and (in most cases) harmless 2-4 jump stints in the MCF.
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Oct 13, 2017 02:56
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How is the cryosleep stuff good news at all? We still need a live crew and they're affected.
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Oct 13, 2017 02:56
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Suddenly, driving a capital ship doesn't seem so bad after all.
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Oct 13, 2017 03:00
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So the people with jump sickness immunity were probably insane (or receptive to demonic forces) to start with, so they just stopped fighting against the horrors after awhile and welcomed it.
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Oct 13, 2017 03:03
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Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be able to figure out what the deal is with the 'immune' people until we have a much larger sample set to use. And getting that is fraught with ethical concerns. On the other hand, +/-Fanatics
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Oct 13, 2017 03:29
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LLSix posted:Give the two jump immune test subjects the commanders of our new jump fleet. No give them command of the Martian IPBMs, we've already seen it does great damage to Earth, so why not use this to our advantage
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Oct 13, 2017 03:54
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HiHo ChiRho posted:No give them command of the Martian IPBMs, we've already seen it does great damage to Earth, so why not use this to our advantage Handing mentally unstable people the keys to weapons of mass destruction sounds like a great idea.
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Oct 13, 2017 04:03
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It will be interesting to see if these effects dissipate at all given time, or if there is no way to unwind them.Saros posted:subjects appear to place their own mental filters over this experience with religious subjects visualizing entities often associated with their religions. Col. PThighs shudders as he turns out the light in his quarters, remembering the long, noodley arm of the Flying Spaghetti Monster reaching out from the void. Calling, beckoning.
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Oct 13, 2017 04:22
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Can we compare the behaviours of these people to the behaviours of the Terrain commodore and associates?
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Oct 13, 2017 04:49
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Since our best information suggests this phenomenon only affects organic minds I suggest we divert some efforts into developing an artificial intelligence that is sufficiently capable to asses the crew's mental state and disable ship functions when it determines they are endangering the mission. This heuristically programmed algorithmic computer will be instrumental in curbing the suddenly unreliable human element in space travel. It may take a while to get the bugs ironed out, but I predict everything should be working fine by the 9th generation model.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:09
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Nevets posted:Since our best information suggests this phenomenon only affects organic minds I suggest we divert some efforts into developing an artificial intelligence that is sufficiently capable to asses the crew's mental state and disable ship functions when it determines they are endangering the mission. This heuristically programmed algorithmic computer will be instrumental in curbing the suddenly unreliable human element in space travel. It may take a while to get the bugs ironed out, but I predict everything should be working fine by the 9th generation model. I second this proposal and also add an addendum: That we also begin to attempt to breed whatever traits that were causing those two women to be immune to jump sickness on to the general Martian population.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:16
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HereticMIND posted:I second this proposal and also add an addendum: That we also begin to attempt to breed whatever traits that were causing those two women to be immune to jump sickness on to the general Martian population. And the space eugenics program comes out. What did I tell you people: Space-nazis masquerading as space-socialists.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:23
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I propose a counter-addendum: Humans are susceptible to warp jumps, so we must become less human. Institute a hybrid parrot-human breeding program at once, so that we may become huge space birds.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:29
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Gridlocked posted:And the space eugenics program comes out. IF the immunity is able to be inherited, we owe it to ourselves and the Martian populace writ large to at least go down this rabbit hole for some length of time until we have results one way or another. And don't think that I'm advocating that these women are to be bred against their wills. They will be compensated for their time and will receive full and appropriate benefits should they choose to volunteer. And we'd wait until the children are at least 16/17 years old at the very least prior to conducting jump sickness experiments.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:30
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HereticMIND posted:IF the immunity is able to be inherited, we owe it to ourselves and the Martian populace writ large to at least go down this rabbit hole for some length of time until we have results one way or another. If I was your Colonel and you were on my ship I'd jettison you out the airlock This isn't a crime cause I'm already on the gulag list.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:34
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Nevets posted:Since our best information suggests this phenomenon only affects organic minds I suggest we divert some efforts into developing an artificial intelligence that is sufficiently capable to asses the crew's mental state and disable ship functions when it determines they are endangering the mission. This heuristically programmed algorithmic computer will be instrumental in curbing the suddenly unreliable human element in space travel. It may take a while to get the bugs ironed out, but I predict everything should be working fine by the 9th generation model. It does affect AIs, per Facility.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:43
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OwlFancier posted:Therefore, we have to consider the possibility that something, some alien intelligence, is directly communicating with people via jump travel. And doing so in a way which the affected individuals do not have conscious control over. The possibility clearly exists that jump travel may be actively, and intelligently hostile to human life. I'm assuming that by 'intelligently hostile' you mean the alien intelligence is deliberately attacking us. There are two equally distressing possibilities. One is that the intelligence doesn't mean to harm us - for instance, we may be tapping into some ancient gate network that uses a psychic 'key' to activate, and our minds are close enough to force the lock but far enough that, to mix metaphors, we're getting our screws stripped. The other, of course, is that the alien intelligence is trying to help us by shaping us in some way. The question then becomes, shaping us into what? At any rate, yes, absolutely we need to get this data out. We need to start with official channels; give the data we've accumulated to Earth (does anyone else have jump tech yet?), invite them to verify the results if they like, and work on some sort of game plan going forward to avoid either getting eaten by space squids or cowering in our system forever. We need to make it clear, though, that if our data is ignored - or, worse, they try to use it as propaganda, claim that we tried to scare them out of space or that Martian brains are clearly inferior to Terran-grown ones or any bullshit like that - we will broadcast our findings, and the necessary information to replicate those findings, to anyone who will listen. (Why yes, we are threatening to give any would-be Umbrella Corporation or Weyland-Yutani jump drive plans. If the Earth government isn't essentially Umbrella Corp or W-Y already, they will play ball with us.)
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Oct 13, 2017 06:35
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FredMSloniker posted:I'm assuming that by 'intelligently hostile' you mean the alien intelligence is deliberately attacking us. There are two equally distressing possibilities. One is that the intelligence doesn't mean to harm us - for instance, we may be tapping into some ancient gate network that uses a psychic 'key' to activate, and our minds are close enough to force the lock but far enough that, to mix metaphors, we're getting our screws stripped. There's kind of a problem with your plan in that the UT government currently is...in flux. So who knows if they're even capable of processing this right now while they're sorting out their government.
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Oct 13, 2017 06:46
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This sounds like the debacle with importing Andean strikebreakers to Mars all over again. Let us not repeat the mistakes of the past again, even in the name of "positive" racism. The mistakes of the future should include sending a "lucid dreamer" through a warp with explicit instructions to fight whatever they find between. Could we assemble a new AI on the other side of a warp point in a reasonable amount of time? If the AI never jumps it should be good to go as a master copy for our ships and suchlike. Makes us more vulnerable to hacking, but who has time for that in space? More seriously I am pitching in another vote for full disclosure of the jump drive madness.
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Oct 13, 2017 07:40
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Could the OCD that the jump-immune are exhibiting be the reason for their immunity, instead of a symptom? A lot of OCD symptoms are safety behaviors used to reduce fear or anxiety. If they were performing some kind of safety behavior to cope with the jump effects, maybe we could try using these on purpose? I propose sending someone that already has OCD through, as well as regular subjects, with orders to perform various safety behaviors. Tell them that they need to keep switching the light on and off or the airlocks will open. "Weird glitch, that. Well, good luck!"  e: Or even telling them that squeezing a ball or pushing a button helps against the jump sickness. Maybe if they believe that it will actually work? It's a brain thing so let's use placebo? Anta fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 09:50
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Nevets posted:Since our best information suggests this phenomenon only affects organic minds I suggest we divert some efforts into developing an artificial intelligence that is sufficiently capable to asses the crew's mental state and disable ship functions when it determines they are endangering the mission. This heuristically programmed algorithmic computer will be instrumental in curbing the suddenly unreliable human element in space travel. It may take a while to get the bugs ironed out, but I predict everything should be working fine by the 9th generation model. What happens when we develop an artificial intelligence sufficiently capable to be susceptible to space madness.
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Oct 13, 2017 10:14
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mossyfisk posted:What happens when we develop an artificial intelligence sufficiently capable to be susceptible to space madness. 
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Oct 13, 2017 10:21
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Yeah AI's are a no-go, Facility outright said that they're susceptible to jump sickness too. Whether or not you trust Facility is a different story, its memory banks are fried to hell and back, but I think we can trust it on this at least.
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Oct 13, 2017 10:39
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Anta posted:Could the OCD that the jump-immune are exhibiting be the reason for their immunity, not a symptom. A lot of OCD symptoms are safety behaviors used to reduce fear or anxiety. If they were performing some kind of safety behavior to cope with the jump effects, maybe we could try using these on purpose? I know we've tried to sedate people going through, but have we tried altering their brain chemistry? Try jump tests with subjects on antipsychotics, anticholinergics, LSD and every other combination of upper/downer/sideways-er we have. Also try sending some psychopaths through and see how they respond.
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Oct 13, 2017 10:52
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Z the IVth posted:I know we've tried to sedate people going through, but have we tried altering their brain chemistry? Try jump tests with subjects on antipsychotics, anticholinergics, LSD and every other combination of upper/downer/sideways-er we have.
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Oct 13, 2017 11:09
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Two things to test! Give crews the controlled opportunity to betray us. Give them ships with failesafes built in and test the immune ones. How about dead people. What if we pull the plug on someone before transiting and then reviving him on the other side?
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Oct 13, 2017 11:26
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Z the IVth posted:I know we've tried to sedate people going through, but have we tried altering their brain chemistry? Try jump tests with subjects on antipsychotics, anticholinergics, LSD and every other combination of upper/downer/sideways-er we have. I'd be interested to see if the people who showed immunity had a higher occurrence of reported déjà vu, hallucinations, or psychic related experiences either themselves or within their families. It may be that the whole psychic thing is actually just certain individuals being more attuned to the jump space dimension, and thus more resistant to it. Also are we testing using shields during the jump? BwenGun fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 11:30
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OwlFancier posted:It means that something involved in the jump process can detect, and affect intelligent life specifically. Anta posted:Could the OCD that the jump-immune are exhibiting be the reason for their immunity, instead of a symptom? A lot of OCD symptoms are safety behaviors used to reduce fear or anxiety. If they were performing some kind of safety behavior to cope with the jump effects, maybe we could try using these on purpose? frankenfreak posted:I just realized we need our version of Cave Johnson in charge of this test program. 
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Oct 13, 2017 12:23
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  Xeno team MaXCOM is formed and placed in charge of excavation in the Ranginui system. Scientist Ulor heads up a second support team. 1 August 2052  A Terran endeavour is sighted returning to Ranginui V. Tharsis and the captured IC BC General Motors finish repair. Negotiations are ongoing with the TFS for sale of IC ship components and the General Motors. Finally work can begin on the new Hubble III destroyers and the upgraded Fleet scouts. and two of each are laid down. 2 August 2052  A small outpost is located on the moon of the 7th planet in Ranginui. This one matches with the 300k year old ruins and has also shows evidence of being blasted with high power conversion-weaponry.  The survey of all the systems major bodies is complete and the system is absolutely littered with ruins. The color tags on the image are as follows: Red = Collaboration ruins, approx 5 million years old. Orange = Unknown ruins, approx 4 million years old. Yellow = Unknown ruins, approx 1 million years old. Blue = Unknown ruins destroyed with conversion-weaponry, approx 300k years old. 6 August 2052  A shipyard is ready to begin producing the Pollus class jump cruisers and four are ordered. A second Ka Kahupapa jump constructor is completed and the shipyard stands down, the frantic pace of construction is putting a severe dent in the Martian TNE flows and budget. 13 August 2052  After nearly three weeks exploring the enormous tower structure with assistance from language dumps from Facility MaxCOM finds a way into the interior. A full report is to follow.  MaXCOM requests to be moved to the fourth planets Moon to investigate several theories they are nursing. Not long after the Martian ships depart the Terran ships inform them they are being recalled and will be exiting the system. 14 August 2052  The teams are delivered to their next target and begin to investigate the old mining installation.  Over in Sol The Eclipse calls in with a wonderful discovery. She has turned up a third jump point in the solar south.  It lies between the orbits of Saturn and Uranus and The Eclipse sets out to confirm it. 16 August 2052  Somewhat unsurprisingly there is a Terran cruiser and escorts parked on the jump point. The Terran cruiser hails them and informs them they are free to pass under the terms of the Lunar Accords. Instructions are needed on what to do on three items.
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Oct 13, 2017 12:42
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Jump constructor proceeds to Swift-Tuttle & waits No good reason to build gates elsewhere yet and once we test the completed Sol-Ranganui gate then we'll most likely want gates on the jump points within Ranganui (leading out) Continue exploration of all jump points, both in Ranganui & Sol We have data on how far we can safely push jump travel and none of these chains are yet long enough to push those limits (for us). Jump limit of four jumps, for ships with 80+ crew. Two jump limit otherwise Do not inform United Terra / Earth of jump experiment results Holy hells no; this triggers immediate war do not do this These results combined with not letting United Terra / Earth use our exclusive Sol gate into Ranganui effectively cut them off from Ranganui. This has been clearly communicated previously as a red line for them. Once they realise this they will be forced to either effectively concede Ranganui to us or fight for control of our exclusive jump point Hopefully we can get our Ranganui jump point defences firmly in place before they realise this, do not speed up the process that we are now racing against. There is benefit to telling them at some point but right now is not that time Edit: It's not quite that critical but still don't give them the results until the defences are in place Edit 2: Jump limit of four jumps, for ships with 80+ crew. Two jump limit otherwise TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 13:02
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This may brush up against some ethical lines, but we should consider systemically testing how jumping affects individuals in some way neurologically atypical. High functioning individuals on the autism spectrum, dyslexics, and people with ADHD, OCD or past brain injury. Just to be absolutely clear, all individuals must be able to give informed consent. But testing how the process differs, if at all, when the subjects are atypical could help us understand how it is affecting neurotypical individuals. And we may find that an unexpected population has resistance.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:25
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Jump constructor 2's services should be offered to United Terra. Construction shouldn't start until after we finish our personal gate and confirm the safety of this new method. In the meantime the ship can at least move toward Terra's jump point, or the new point. The ultimate humanitarian aid in the aftermath of Earth's recent tragedy. Explore Sol's jump point without risking more than 3 jumps. The margin is simply too thin for exploration through Ranganui. 90% sharing of jump tests with Terra. Maybe leave out the craziest stuff we have done. If we have full confidence in the deception leave out the part about some people coping with the jump. We might be above jumping whole barges full of people through the points just for a few breakthroughs. Put our money where our research is by staying under the 3 jump limit at all costs. Hopefully UT will follow suit...
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Oct 13, 2017 13:35
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Im just going to head this one off here. You don't need to run experiments on a laundry list of the mentally ill, the elderly or children etc etc. Everyone is affected identically by jump transit unless I specifically note an exemption.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:42
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habituallyred posted:without risking more than 3 jumps I could maybe be sold on a 3 jump limit. You want to er, leave out the Tango incident?
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Oct 13, 2017 13:45
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Supporting Wetfish proposal, the decision which JPs to use next (Ranganui or Sol) should depend on how much jumping via Gate influences the sentience tax. For now completing the grav surveys of both systems should have priority.
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Oct 13, 2017 14:07
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habituallyred posted:Jump constructor 2's services should be offered to United Terra. Park the constructor at S-T Explore up to 4 jumps round trip from Sol in all directions (so one more system down the Rangi chain and two down the Sol chains) Share most of our data with Earth
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Oct 13, 2017 14:09
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TheWetFish posted:Jump constructor proceeds to Swift-Tuttle & waits The difference between two and four jumps isn't big enough to start a war though. Right? And if it is we can just offer return transit through our jp cause we're nice. Not Alex fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 14:15
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A key point is that the reports set out a rough schedule of risk but also noted but there is enormous variability between subjects 4 jumps is within schedule tolerance but 4 jumps for some crew may be equivalent to a lot more jump trauma for others. So yes, 4 jumps is not critical but probably a meaningful distinction for each and every crew United Terra / Earth wants to send into Ranganui, which is probably a lot overall On that note I've been persuasively convinced on a 4 jump hard limit for now, pending further information such as the Sol-Ranganui gate. This will only apply for ships with 80+ crew, to minimise the risk of problems from sufficient number of crew going insane. Our current jump scouts have 84 crew. We are probably going to lose some people but hopefully not many and that exploration information may be critically important Editing my proposal to include the jump limit TheWetFish fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 14:33
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