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timp posted:I can't remember if Mechamaru mentioned this or not, but was he capable of feeling pain? Assuming the switch on the back of his neck was used, he probably would have died in his "sleep"?
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Oct 12, 2017 22:35
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Gorilla Salad posted:I'm guessing that the killer tied him to the door handle of the upper house, went through the elevator to the "other" building and tried to access the tower. This actually works much better than my theory of "he was tied to the pillar and the door handle when the room moved, pulling the column on top of him." The only problem I have with this is that the killed would have needed to set up a way to make Mechamaru drop, or else the whole alibi-setup with the alarm clocks wouldn't make sense. ...I actually just got this as I was writing this post. - The killer deactivates Mechamaru with the sleepy time button (smashing him in the back of the neck with the hammer), and sets up his internal alarm so that he wakes up at 7.30. - The killer then ties Mechamaru up setting things up so that when he wakes up he would pull the handle from the door, dropping himself down on top of the pillar, leaves, moves the room to the Grape - At 7.30 the alarm clock goes off, and the killer is present so his alibi is assured; at the same time, Mechamaru wakes up, and dies. The killer wouldn't even need to re-enter the room at that point, everything has fallen into place. (Pardon the pun.) And I'm willing to bet that the chained door is part of the elaborate rube-goldberg setup so that Mechamaru kills himself. This actually makes me wonder if Gundham, whom I'd pointed my accusing finger at before, is the killer or not. The main reason I thought he was is that he's the only one who can remotely activate the room (with his hamsters), but with this new theory the killer wouldn't need to activate the room at the time of the alibi since everything would have been set up beforehand.
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Oct 12, 2017 22:51
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Zoe posted:I'm leaning away from Souda now because surely he likes Sonia too much to want her to die? By being competent he's stealing the chance for the real hope to shine. Nagito and Hajime should be footstools for the Ultimates to stand on and Hajime is messing that up. Though really he's being a dick to everyone now.
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Oct 12, 2017 23:13
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Isn't Mechamaru super heavy? Doesn't that limit our suspects if we presume he was moved? Perhaps the killer lured Mechamaru to the elevator room, put him to sleep there and attached him to the pillar or door with the chains. Leave the room, wait for someone in the "other" house to press the button, bing bang boom.
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Oct 13, 2017 05:35
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 Say, where the hell are we? Have we seen a forest this big anywhere on the islands we visited so far?
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Oct 13, 2017 06:32
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Carbon dioxide posted:Have we seen a forest this big anywhere on the islands we visited so far? Given that those trees would have to be at least three stories tall? Not even close.
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Oct 13, 2017 06:43
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and trees like that don't grow on tropical islands
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Oct 13, 2017 19:24
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 Click here to watch this update's video!      : I'm gonna solve this mystery in a flash! : Then hurry up, dumbass... : One of the bodies in one of the towers... : ...was actually a dummy! : You mean a fake body? : Nekomaru died with a mechanical body... : It should be possible to construct a dummy from spare parts! : You are magnificent, Gundham!: N-No fair! You totally stole my spotlight! : So which one was the fake body? : Shut up! Just pick one of 'em!A dummy of Nekomaru's body existed? Does that mean the killer prepared it in advance? But...is something like that even possible?  : Not really. Where would they even get the parts to assemble a second body that is also broken in the exact same way and fooled everyone? The real answer is that Kazuichi himself should know that the body can't be a dummy because... > Shoot "dummy" with "Strange Feeling in Tower"      : Nekomaru's body wasn't a dummy... That can be proven by Kazuichi's account. : Huh...me!? : Remember? When we moved from Grape Tower to Strawberry Tower, we thought the body had moved...and that's when you said...    : Not just that...the parts that I carefully arranged when I disassembled the body all moved, too. : Right up until that moment, you were disassembling Nekomaru's body at Grape Tower, right? The killer couldn't have known how you'd take apart his body, so they couldn't have built a dummy. ♪ Music cuts out. ♪  : Unless Kazuichi was the one who built the dummy, then it would be a different story. : Haha...Miss Sonia... Th-That's a pretty harsh joke...: ...: Y-You *are* joking, right!?   : It's all right. Kazuichi is not the killer. : If he was, he wouldn't have fixed the elevator or the button in Strawberry Hall. It'd be much more convenient for the killer if it stayed broken. : I see... That is disappointing. : I'm...even more disappointed...  : However...even if Nekomaru's body wasn't a dummy, it's meaningless if we don't have the important answer. : The reason Nekomaru's body was in both towers, even though it was supposed to be on different floors...: ...Maybe it was simply moved?: The body moved to a different floor!?  : You can't think of a device like that? A device that moved things to different floors in the same building?A device...like that...? A device that transports things to different floors in the same building... I feel like I've seen that before...  ...All right, let's do this!    : Sometimes I really love these simple and obvious minigames because in order to set them up the game has to make everyone look really dumb. : It's an elevator. : Of course you've seen one of these before Hajime it's a freaking elevator. : You literally rode one to this trial. : You...must be talking about an elevator! : What...? Are you saying Nekomaru's body was transported using an elevator?: Where the hell is this elevator anyway!?: It's the tower itself... The inside of the tower is one big elevator! : Which means the tower was designed so that the whole room goes up and down like an elevator. : So whether you enter from Strawberry Hall or Grape Hall... : ...it all leads to the same room, right? : So that's why we could only enter it from one side or the other... : Now that you mention it...sometimes when I pressed the door button, it took a while for it to open... : I see! We were basically waitin' for the room to arrive, just like an elevator! : P-Please hold on...if the inside of the whole tower ascends and descends like an elevator... : Then why is there a picture of a strawberry on the far back door when you enter from Grape Tower... : ...and a picture of a grape on the far back door when you enter from Strawberry Tower? : If the room just moves up and down like an elevator, there's no reason for the doors to change...  : Plus, after the incident the far back door in Grape Tower had chains wrapped around it, right? : But when we entered Strawberry Tower, those chains were gone. : Not just that, but if I remember correctly...even the doorknob was broken off.  : Hmph, there are too many strange things. Was that tower really an elevator? : When you see people and things...make sure you focus on the good parts instead of the bad. : What did you say?: So...let's put aside what's changed, and focus our attention on what hasn't. : ...Why do we have to do that?: It's fine... Come on, what does everything that hasn't changed have in common?The things that didn't change when we moved between the two towers...  That includes the body, the pillar, and the oil. We've been talking about that stuff for a while now.  There shouldn't be anything strange about them, not even the fact that they all moved with the elevator... Um... The one thing these all have in common...  > They were all on the floor  : Is it safe to say that...all the items on the floor didn't change...?: ...And? : ...And?: Why did the picture on the far back door change...? If you can figure that out, you'll have the answer. : The reason is because...that elevator has something unique about it.There's something unique about that elevator...?  > Only the floor moves  : So that's it! The elevator was designed so only the floor moved!: ...Only the floor moved? : Which means the whole room wasn't an elevator, only the floor was. That's why we saw different doors in each tower. : Which means on the 1st floor of Grape Tower, the door on the far back wall had a strawberry design... : ...and on the 4th floor--which was Strawberry Tower--a different door on the far back wall had a grape design. : Then...where do the different floors lead?  : I want to say they lead outside but...they're probably just for show. : Just for show... Why was something like that necessary?: So we'd falsely believe that the doors were connected to where their picture signified. : It was actually very effective. Because of that, we totally misunderstood the buildings structure. : I don't get it, but I guess it means whoever designed this building had a totally twisted personality!   : ...Did you hear that, Monomi!? : Don't blame this on me! Take responsibility for yourself! : Then I'll take responsibility and gently caress you! : *Swoon!*: ...Like, there's no way that's gonna happen! Stop with the tasteless jokes! : By the way...what does the chain on the far back door in Grape Tower mean? : It was...probably wrapped there by the killer to keep us as far from Strawberry Tower as possible.: ...Why? : Because of that chain, you guys thought you couldn't enter there, right?  : ...Like you said...I could probably use these parts to repair that button, but... : S-Seriously, hold on! Even if you do repair the button, what's going to happen to the chain on the other side of the door? : ...Chain?: The door that leads to Strawberry Hall has a chain wrapped around the doorknob. Even if you fix the button on the Strawberry Hall side, the door won't open as long as that chain is there. : You don't need to worry about that at all. : ...Huh?   : The killer destroyed the Strawberry Hall button...so we'd stay away from Strawberry Tower. Everything...was done to tamper with the evidence so we wouldn't find out about the secret of the Funhouse. : The appearance of a body in the tower would contradict what we thought we knew about the building... : In that situation, if we'd gone to Strawberry Tower, we'd have seen that contradiction firsthand... : And using that as a clue, we might've discovered the truth... : The truth that the two houses and the two towers are actually one complete vertical building. : The killer wanted to keep us from learning that... That's why they made us stay away from Strawberry Tower.  : They destroyed the button and wrapped a chain around the door just for that? : Would it have really inconvenienced the killer if we learned the true structure of the building?: It would've been a major inconvenience. After all...this Funhouse is strongly connected to the Ultimate Weapon that killed Nekomaru!  : Hold on...you're progressing much too quickly... There's still a contradiction concerning the building structure.: What a pain... It's fine already...: Gundham, please proceed!: ... : You said earlier that Strawberry House and Grape House are connected vertically, right...?: If so, how does the contact elevator supposedly transport us from one house to the other?I see...now that you mention it, I completely forgot about that matter...   : If that elevator moves vertically, then when your back is facing the elevator, both towers should be on the same side.: But...does this reflect reality? : Inside Grape House, Grape Hall is on your right when your back is to the elevator... : ...and inside Strawberry House, Strawberry Hall is on your left when your back is to the elevator. Which means, the houses are on exact opposite sides of the tower... : Answer me fiend! What does this mean!? : What does this mean!?I agree... What does this mean?  If the two houses are connected vertically, the position of the tower should be the same in both houses...  But in fact, when my back was facing the elevator in Grape House, the tower was on my right...  And when my back was facing the elevator in Strawberry House, the tower was on my left.  How can I break through this contradiction...?
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Oct 14, 2017 00:52
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Hajime uses "Strange Feeling in Tower" as the bullet to shoot Kazuichi's statement down and then he says the proof is Kazuichi's account? So why wasn't the account the bullet point?
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Oct 14, 2017 01:42
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FPzero, I love how you're doing this LP, it's excellent. That said I hate this game, I hate the plot and every single character. How people think it's better than the first one is beyond me. I'm 80% sure who did this and I'm so glad because they're the worst character. Let's see.
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Oct 14, 2017 02:02
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Hajime uses "Strange Feeling in Tower" as the bullet to shoot Kazuichi's statement down and then he says the proof is Kazuichi's account? So why wasn't the account the bullet point? It's because the "Kazuichi's Account" bullet actually has a different bit of information in it that's unrelated to the tower. Yeah, this is one of those instances where the localization fails a bit.
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Oct 14, 2017 02:07
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Gundham, your attempts at deception have already been undone by Nagito and his compass! You can protect the Dark Devas of Destruction from the forces of light no longer!
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Oct 14, 2017 02:37
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Ol' Gundam's being awfully chatty for a guy who's normally divorced from reality...
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Oct 14, 2017 02:41
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I'm glad that Kazuichi creeping on Sonia has some actual consequences, and we find out that Sonia actually hates his guts. And the "what does this mean?" bit with Gundham is fun to hear.  Chiaki's idea about Kazuichi not being the killer because he fixed the contact elevator has a hole in it, since Kazuichi could still do it but take ages to finish it so that he can deflect suspicion while still delay the other boys from helping with the investigation. Nagito giving him the multi-tool to speed up the repairs probably messed up with that plan. ...And was it me, or was that gently caress joke an SA reference?
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Oct 14, 2017 02:58
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FPzero posted:It's because the "Kazuichi's Account" bullet actually has a different bit of information in it that's unrelated to the tower. Yeah, this is one of those instances where the localization fails a bit. This debate is why I'm glad that pressing the square button in debates pauses the game and brings up the truth bullet list, since I had no idea what to do, but once I read the description, the answer was obvious.
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Oct 14, 2017 04:17
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amigolupus posted:...And was it me, or was that gently caress joke an SA reference? No one has heard of this dead gay comedy forum, so seems unlikely, but it's hard to avoid making the connection and it made me laugh either way. And I'm guessing the elevator would have to rotate because of the whole thing with the compass.
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Oct 14, 2017 06:44
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FPzero posted:
Someone who is behind the paywall is going to do a double take at this. I know I did.
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Oct 14, 2017 07:02
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amigolupus posted:I'm glad that Kazuichi creeping on Sonia has some actual consequences, and we find out that Sonia actually hates his guts. And the "what does this mean?" bit with Gundham is fun to hear. It wouldn't surprise me at all. Orenronen's translation Let's Play of the first game is what made it gain popularity in the west, and the reason a localization was actually made. The localization team probably is aware of the fact that an SA LP got them this job, and they put in a subtle reference to acknowledge that.
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Oct 14, 2017 09:30
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The LP is still top-notch, but I wish we could move on from this part of the trial. We've already established the two buildings are one and the same, the tower is an elevator, and the contact elevator spins. I want to know whodunnit! 
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Oct 14, 2017 12:05
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FPzero posted:
I feel like this is a shot at us.
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Oct 14, 2017 13:33
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The reference to SA is plausible, but also plausibly deniable. It's juuuuuuuust barely kinda possible that they might have happened upon "gently caress" as a total coincidence. ...Of course, these days I'm much more inclined to believe it is deliberate, because DRv3 contains exactly one very small but extremely direct and totally unmistakeable shoutout to both the SHSL Translation and Project Zetsubou's patch.
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Oct 14, 2017 14:48
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Right now the only way I can imagine the contact elevator moving is either along a big track 3 stories tall on the outside of the buildings, like a rollercoaster, or the building's aren't exactly on top of each other*. I'm still focused on how, every time they're been in the lift, they comment on how smooth it feels. A rollercoaster really doesn't fit with that. *but Nagito has pretty much put that idea to rest.
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Oct 14, 2017 15:49
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Fedule posted:The reference to SA is plausible, but also plausibly deniable. It's juuuuuuuust barely kinda possible that they might have happened upon "gently caress" as a total coincidence. Thank you, I wanted to post this, but didn't want to break thread rules that said don't mention DRv3. 
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Oct 14, 2017 16:12
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This kind of scenario is what gives the Ace Attorney games the edge over DR for me - in those people lie for valid reasons or are mistaken in a genuine fashion. In DR the nature of the arguments means everyone but the protagonist is so loving dense! The dummy stuff that started this update was completely stupid!
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Oct 14, 2017 16:12
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Glaive17 posted:Thank you, I wanted to post this, but didn't want to break thread rules that said don't mention DRv3. Fedule how dare you be a rule breaker mod! 
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Oct 14, 2017 17:35
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MysticalMachineGun posted:This kind of scenario is what gives the Ace Attorney games the edge over DR for me - in those people lie for valid reasons or are mistaken in a genuine fashion. I liked the characterisation in the later Ace Attorney games, like the prosecutor with the samurai theme who's entire reaction to Phoenix's theories was "Interesting... can you back that up? " He was pretty much on the side of truth from the start and that's pretty cool. Also with the priestess who looked through the eyes of the dead coming on board in only a few cases was pretty cool too - she just wanted to make sure she got the right guy this time, because since Phoenix starts tearing apart her "perfect" evidence she realises how many holes her testimony has likely had in the past, and worrying if she may have accidentally sent innocent men to their deaths. I always like when those games have no obstacles outside the witness stand, just competing theories given in good grace, no manipulation, just interpretation.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:18
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MysticalMachineGun posted:This kind of scenario is what gives the Ace Attorney games the edge over DR for me - in those people lie for valid reasons or are mistaken in a genuine fashion. Everyone except the protagonist, the rival, and the female lead, that is.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:47
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MysticalMachineGun posted:This kind of scenario is what gives the Ace Attorney games the edge over DR for me - in those people lie for valid reasons or are mistaken in a genuine fashion. Well, the idea is that the vast majority of people go into it clueless and have no reason to trust the protagonist, who might be the killer trying to mislead them. But at its worst they just stack up a bunch of mysteries and pull characters out of a hat to speak up about them.
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Oct 15, 2017 02:29
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I just realised something. The third case was thought to be a copycat murder because the victims are similar to the first and second victims in The Wizard of Monomi. Probably a coincidence, but Nekomaru's state when found seems similar to the third victim in that  movie
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Oct 15, 2017 09:35
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Click here to watch this update's video!     : If the two houses are connected vertically...: The elevator should move... : ...vertically, not horizontally...! : However, at both houses... If the contact elevator is behind you...: The towers are in opposite directions!: Which means your reasoning...: ...is clearly contradictory! : What's with this Iron Curtain of Teamwork!?So Gundham and Sonia have matching arguments... It sounds like it makes sense but...is that really correct? : We have evidence that something happens to that elevator as it moves. It's not *just* moving vertically. > Shoot "vertically" with "Kazuichi's Account"     : The elevator wasn't just moving vertically...: ...Isn't that right, Kazuichi?: ...Huh? Me!?: Come on, you used the elevator while you were holding that compass Nagito gave you, right? : Ah, that... Yeah...it was pretty strange... From start to finish, somehow the compass needle rotated 180 degrees...: Rotated...180 degrees?: Meaning, as the elevator moved between the two houses, it also rotated 180 degrees. : It...was probably following the building's perimeter as it rotated to the other side. Which means the exit would be on the opposite side once you arrived at the other house, right? : And thanks to that, the tower we saw on our right side when we arrived at Grape House appeared on our left side when we were at Strawberry House.  : An elevator that rotates while it moves...is that even possible? It's like something from an amusement park...!   : Well, a Funhouse is an amusement park attraction, you know.: And since the building doesn't really need to be structurally practical, it makes for some splendid fun.: That's not splendid at all! You're inhuman!: You say I'm inhuman...but I'm just a bear, so I was never human to begin with. : I'm different from these lowly humans!  : So we're done with the secret of the Funhouse, right? Then let's start talkin' about the important stuff... : What's the Ultimate Weapon that killed Nekomaru!? And how'd they combine it with the pillar!? : Huh? You still don't know what the Ultimate Weapon is yet? It's what I found at the Octagon, you know.: What is the "Octagon"? I haven't heard about that yet. : Oh my... I can't believe I have to explain that now... As long as you know what an octagon means, you can solve this simple mystery easily...What an octagon means...?  > An eight-sided shape : why is this a question : If I recall...an octagon is a shape with eight sides, right? : I didn't expect you to know that. For a substitute Reserve Course student, you're quite knowledgeable. : ...: gently caress you.  : I guess I should continue listening... Where is the place befitting of the name, "Octagon"? The place befitting of the name, "Octagon"...? It's probably...  : This Spot Selection sucks. Maybe it's just me, but I mess it up every single time. We know that the Octagon is on the other side of the Final Dead Room, which is on the 1st floor of Strawberry House. But if you select the 1st floor of Strawberry House, you're wrong. Additionally, if you think of a traditionally-shaped octagon with 8 sides like a STOP sign or something similar, you're going to be misled again. : Instead, you're supposed to click the ceiling of Grape House's 3rd floor. This spot is tiny to actually select. : Just to show how small the area is, I went to The Cutting Room Floor and found the Spot Selection maps they have documented. Each color represents a different answer, though only one color is the correct one. The red spots count as the correct locations in this instance.: And actually I just realized that this image doesn't make sense either because the Final Dead Room and Octagon are on the opposite side of the room from the elevator! We should be looking at the building from the other side!: This is easily the worst Spot Selection in the game. At least it's not Metroid Other M's spot selections though... : You're...talking about the secret room surrounded by concrete in the depths of the Final Dead Room.: Why is that place the Octagon?: You know how the four-sided Strawberry House is on top of the six-sided Strawberry House? : If you cut a four-sided shape out of a six-sided one, you get eight edges... It becomes an eight-sided shape.   : That's basically the gist of it... : The true identity of the Octagon is that secret room in the depths of the Final Dead Room. In actuality...that place contained various weapons. : Then the Ultimate Weapon was there, too?: That's a little different... I learned the true identity of the Ultimate Weapon at the Octagon.: ...Learned?  : The true identity of the Ultimate Weapon is the Funhouse. : Which means the killer used the building structure as their weapon and killed Nekomaru! : Like me, the killer...probably realized the secret of the Funhouse from the scenery...and then thought of a way to kill making use of the building structure. : The Funhouse itself is the weapon... So they...killed using the building structure?: That's why the killer tried to keep us from learning the mystery of the building...: But more importantly, using the building itself as a weapon...such a spectacular crime! : Ahahahahaha! It truly deserves to be called the Ultimate Weapon!: ... The Funhouse is the true identity of the Ultimate Weapon...? What does this mean...? How did the killer...use that to murder Nekomaru? And...  Who is the killer who did that...?     : Why hello there! I thought of a new bad word to call Monomi! : Uwah...I can already tell I won't be pleased by this...: Then let me say it right away!: Hehe...I'm already used to insults and slander... There's no way I'll get hurt by a mere word.: Monomi...is a serious Stufatly!: Th-That's much more straightforward than I expected... Stufatly...huh...: Tsk, tsk, tsk... That's not it. That's not it at all. Stupid, fat, and ugly... The perfect Jetstream Attack incorporating all three of these would be... Tadaaaa! Stufatly!: Ha-wa-wa!? There's a "fat" hidden in there!?: Okay everyone, all together now... Monomi is a serious Stufatly!
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Oct 18, 2017 18:14
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My internet has been out for the last 5 days so that's why there were no updates. I'll try to make up for that by getting a few extra ones done over my fall break starting tomorrow. This trial has taken a lot longer than I wanted it to.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:16
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1234567890num posted:I just realised something. The third case was thought to be a copycat murder because the victims are similar to the first and second victims in The Wizard of Monomi. Probably a coincidence, but Nekomaru's state when found seems similar to the third victim in that 
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Oct 18, 2017 18:16
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im not a huge fan of excessively geographic crime puzzles. there's just too many random minor details you have to sort out before you can get to the juicy murder bits that being said, i'm pretty sure we're about to get to the juicy murder bits
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Oct 18, 2017 18:28
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I'm guessing the 'Stufatly' joke was a better play on words in Japanese. (And was Nagito really surprise Hajime knew the definition of 'octagon', come on...) Glad this is updating again. I was reeeeaaal tempted to look up some spoilers, but the game's been out so long anyway that a delay of a few days is nbd. I have two suspects right now, but they're the same I had at the beginning of the trial so I'm just  ing and waiting for the outcome. I hope it's Souda because out of everyone left I like him the least.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:46
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Zoe posted:(And was Nagito really surprise Hajime knew the definition of 'octagon', come on...) My guess (without knowing a lick of Japanese) is that the word for octagon is perhaps less well known in Japan. And maybe they don't have 8-sided octagonal stop signs like we do? fake edit: a quick search seems to confirm that they didn't start installing octagon shaped stop signs in Japan until about 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Japan In other words, this "riddle" was undercut by localization
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Oct 18, 2017 18:54
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FPzero posted:
There's condescension, and then there's this.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:04
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Zoe posted:(And was Nagito really surprise Hajime knew the definition of 'octagon', come on...) Sadly the editor wouldn't let the localizers use their first choice of "...Who the gently caress taught you 'octagon'?!"
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Oct 19, 2017 02:02
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They name the ultimate secret room the OCTOGON because it's a hexagon minus a rectangle But not all that space on the first floor is usable. There's a corridor through it. So it would be a HEPTAGON?  idgi
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Oct 19, 2017 02:21
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Hemingway To Go! posted:So it would be a HEPTAGON? The lower of the two white shapes still has 8 sides.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:26
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timp posted:My guess (without knowing a lick of Japanese) is that the word for octagon is perhaps less well known in Japan. And maybe they don't have 8-sided octagonal stop signs like we do? I'm pretty sure 'Octagon' was said in English, too, meaning Japanese players would have to know Greek prefixes and/or specifically know the english word for 'eight-sided shape'. I vaguely recall Hinata being something like 'the meaning of 'octagon'... oh, yeah, the english word for [tako/タコ] is octopus... so maybe it's related' So it's slightly less condescending. ...I think.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:32
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