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Ham Sandwiches posted:Can you just sort of paraphrase what is the position of the people in this thread, if they don't think that it's impossible to make money in Bitcoin. I wouldn't want to misrepresent the anti bitcoin argument. So what is it? The scammers don't burn your money once they take it from you
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Oct 14, 2017 01:07
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Can you just sort of paraphrase what is the position of the people in this thread, if they don't think that it's impossible to make money in Bitcoin. I wouldn't want to misrepresent the anti bitcoin argument. So what is it? I think that a lot of people are going to be left holding the bag and telling everyone it cannot fail and is risk free is pretty silly given all the hiccups so far.
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Oct 14, 2017 01:13
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Ham Sandwiches posted:How is this funny? Because you're a pathetic loser and shadenfreudia is hilarious.
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Oct 14, 2017 01:15
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COMRADES posted:I think that a lot of people are going to be left holding the bag and telling everyone it cannot fail and is risk free is pretty silly given all the hiccups so far. I'm not sure that anyone claimed that it cannot fail and that it's risk free. The posts being made on the topic of cryptocoins for the past few years were stating that they are guaranteed to fail and that the risk is simply not worth it because any money you put into it will be lost, and I felt that was entirely wrong.
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Oct 14, 2017 01:16
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Ham Sandwiches posted:How is this funny? I had to respond to big rear end effortposts where I wrote all kinds of things about what I believe, and the payoff is that people will keep making up stuff that I supposedly believe and ignoring what I write. Doesn't seem very reciprocal, now does it? 
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Oct 14, 2017 01:18
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I'm not sure that anyone claimed that it cannot fail and that it's risk free. I'm still processing that there are 3+ varieties of pork sandwich involved here but it was definitely said at some point. But yeah if it wasn't you then that's cool.
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Oct 14, 2017 01:39
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Can you just sort of paraphrase what is the position of the people in this thread, if they don't think that it's impossible to make money in Bitcoin. I wouldn't want to misrepresent the anti bitcoin argument. So what is it? 1. It's not a very good investment due to risks associated with it. 2. Its practical applications are limited if not inexistent due to technical issues that are inherent to its implementation and unfixable at this point, which means it'll never be the head of a major corporation. 3. You should buy some bitc oins before you open your lying trap again, you charlatan!
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Oct 14, 2017 02:03
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I never told anyone to buy bitcoins, I don't mod a subreddit called /r/bitcoinisawesome, I don't have a gaggle of yospos people circlejerking with me how awesome bitcoins are, I didn't self publish an ebook about how awesome bitcoins are. You know what would be a good start? Buying a bithcoin.
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Oct 14, 2017 02:05
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Paladinus posted:You know what would be a good start? Buying a bithcoin. Buttcoin! There I said it!
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Oct 14, 2017 02:24
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Here are some actually good books by competent authors to read on Bitcoin: How Money Got Free: Bitcoin and the fight for the future of finance Digital Gold: Bitcoin and the inside story of the misfits and millionaires trying to reinvent money Blockchain Revolution: How the technology behind Bitcoin is changing money, business, and the world Machine, Platform, Crowd: Harnessing our digital future
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Oct 14, 2017 02:35
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:Buttcoin! Holy poo poo......................................coin
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Oct 14, 2017 02:35
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Paladinus posted:Holy poo poo......................................coin when the new order takes over, remember, i said it
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Oct 14, 2017 02:38
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Well there were a lot of people that felt very very strongly that I had to respond to that guy's long rear end effortposts to keep posting in the thread even though I was sure he'd bail once we started talking and that ended up a pretty big waste of time Why did you think he would bail?
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Oct 14, 2017 03:22
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:Buttcoin! I don't believe you.
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Oct 14, 2017 06:05
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How much does it cost an established miner to mine a coin these days? I would guess (out of my rear end) much less than the current market price. Therefore... if it's trivial to turn coins into cash, why aren't people selling massively until the price adjusts to the cost of production? I cannot think of a reason, but I'm not financially educated at all, and I'm also kind of dumb with money. I am perfectly willing to hear that I'm wrong and an idiot and I'm asking completely the wrong question, but please then educate me on why I'm wrong so I may understand this. I realize that the people who have been saying that withdrawing cash is difficult to impossible will just tell me that the exchanges are artificially inflating the rate by restricting the flow of cash out of the exchanges, so I'd like to hear primarily from the other side of the debate.
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Oct 14, 2017 07:59
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iceaim posted:Oh no he's only 1.5k shy of his promise! No the goons on here who mocked bitcoin and crypto-currency totally don't look like they have their foot in their mouth. also a promise is a promise
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Oct 14, 2017 08:26
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i think there should be a series of pro investing tips by people who are salty about not investing their live savings in bitcoin and also not losing it all in a massive theft by the most popular exchange 
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Oct 14, 2017 08:40
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HerStuddMuffin posted:How much does it cost an established miner to mine a coin these days? I would guess (out of my rear end) much less than the current market price. Therefore... if it's trivial to turn coins into cash, why aren't people selling massively until the price adjusts to the cost of production? I cannot think of a reason, but I'm not financially educated at all, and I'm also kind of dumb with money. The actual cost of mining a bitcoin doesn't seem to correlate at all with the price. This is because when one is laundering money, one does not expect to generate profit off of the money laundering itself.
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Oct 14, 2017 08:43
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That assumes most of the market is comprised of money launderers, and not a lot is made up of miners. Is that he case? I understand (maybe?) the difference between the price of bitcoins ($5000 per coin currently, give or take?) and the value of bitcoins ($0) but I'm taking the standpoint of a miner. If mining is profitable, I should sell the coins I mine so I can expand my operations, mine more and make more profits. Sitting on a promise makes no sense. But that's only the case if I can actually get real cash for my coins, not theoretical cash according to some exchange that won't let me cash out. If cashing out is easy, why aren't I cashing out?
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Oct 14, 2017 09:02
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Ham Sandwitch posted:Here are some actually good books by competent authors to read on Bitcoin: The first is great and I recommend it. The second is not. The author does not understand computers and takes every hyperbolic claim about Bitcoin at face value, then assumes it applies to anything that calls itself "blockchain". The final chapter is where he puts all the caveats, but he doesn't undrestand why they're caveats either. He has not let this stop him from making goddamn buckets of money consulting and thinktanking on blockchains, which is again an excellent way to make an infinite % more money from Bitcoins than any of the ham sandwiches have.
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Oct 14, 2017 09:25
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Mister Ham you are just the perfect seller for Amway. Like it's the exact same arguments that any other MLM cult member will give. "Look at all these famous people who endorse it". "See people have made money off it so I can't be a scam". "It has huge sales numbers so it can't be a scam".
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Oct 14, 2017 09:37
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I didn't bail, I just have an actual job I need to go to for a good amount of the day. Remember, that thing that I do that involves the regulation of finance? No? Oh well. Anyway, the actual reason that it was inevitable that I'd stop talking to you and bail on doing anything but making fun of you is that you don't respond to posts. You quote the post, pick extremely specific things that you can answer while ignoring a good 90% of the points made, then fail to adequately answer the points you have specifically cherry picked to answer. I told you before that Buttcoins are a scam because they are a scam; money cannot be made on them, as a system. An individual person can make money on them, if they are willing to take money from another person in return for a worthless item. They can only be used to extract money from idiots. This is morally reprehensible to me, so I'm gonna laugh at you for being a huge idiot who tried to scam people but fell on his face and got owned.
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Oct 14, 2017 14:44
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Coindesk has an interesting idea about why money is crowding into the market in advance of a hard fork. When the last fork happened people doubled the amount of tokens for free. https://www.coindesk.com/logical-not-bitcoins-coming-fork-boosting-price/ quote:Yet it seems, investors believe the momentum is warranted given the results of the last hard fork in August, which split the network in two, but did so in a way that fairly safely created a new asset called bitcoin cash. Holy Jesus God
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Oct 14, 2017 15:01
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HerStuddMuffin posted:That assumes most of the market is comprised of money launderers, and not a lot is made up of miners. Is that he case? I understand (maybe?) the difference between the price of bitcoins ($5000 per coin currently, give or take?) and the value of bitcoins ($0) but I'm taking the standpoint of a miner. If mining is profitable, I should sell the coins I mine so I can expand my operations, mine more and make more profits. Sitting on a promise makes no sense. But that's only the case if I can actually get real cash for my coins, not theoretical cash according to some exchange that won't let me cash out. If cashing out is easy, why aren't I cashing out? A vast majority of the mining market is made up of Chinese mining farms due to strict regulations on conversions of Chinese money to USD, with the butts coins being a convenient way of sidestepping that. Also, yes. Double your money!!!!!!! That's how things work right You just get twice the money out of nowhere, we should fork all the time
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Oct 14, 2017 15:11
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Dmitri-9 posted:Coindesk has an interesting idea about why money is crowding into the market in advance of a hard fork. When the last fork happened people doubled the amount of tokens for free. The thing is that any argument that the smaller fork is worthless can also be applied to the larger fork. The proper conclusion to draw would be that both forks are worthless, the actual conclusion they draw is that both forks will one day be worth millions. Blade Runner posted:A vast majority of the mining market is made up of Chinese mining farms due to strict regulations on conversions of Chinese money to USD, with the butts coins being a convenient way of sidestepping that. Just agree that bitcoins are worth $5000 and fork every month and then everybody can sell their bitcoins on the fork for $5000 and still keep their real bitcoins. Then everybody will be a millionaire in no time.
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Oct 14, 2017 15:14
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It looks like less traceable shitcoins like monero are going to eat bitcoin's lunch but the feds are rolling up the darknet markets. The only big use left for shitcoins is human trafficking.
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Oct 14, 2017 15:27
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Powershift posted:The thing is that any argument that the smaller fork is worthless can also be applied to the larger fork. The proper conclusion to draw would be that both forks are worthless, the actual conclusion they draw is that both forks will one day be worth millions. coindesk has a certain editorial perspective, because they know their audience. hammy would fit right into the comments section. Powershift posted:Just agree that bitcoins are worth $5000 and fork every month and then everybody can sell their bitcoins on the fork for $5000 and still keep their real bitcoins. Then everybody will be a millionaire in no time. this is pretty much what they seem to be attempting. in other news, i'm reading a book about the collapse of mt. gox (Pay the Devil in Bitcoin) and have just read this sentence, concerning Mark Karpeles: how dare you make me read this with my own two eyes posted:They say he has the ability to ejaculate large amounts of sperm at some velocity.
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Oct 14, 2017 15:28
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Blade Runner posted:A vast majority of the mining market is made up of Chinese mining farms due to strict regulations on conversions of Chinese money to USD, with the butts coins being a convenient way of sidestepping that. In all seriousness, Chinese peasants don't own bitcoin farms, and a lot of rich Chinese people have relatives abroad. Is getting the wallet passwords out to a trusted family member in Canada really that hard?
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Oct 14, 2017 16:33
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HerStuddMuffin posted:Ok, so Chinese miners can't convert coins to cash easily, and they comprise most of the miners. That makes sense, their coins are tied up because they can't liquidate. Have they tried sending emails to random strangers abroad to ask for their assistance in turning their coins into cash in exchange for a cut? I heard it works for Nigerian princes. they're using it to sidestep the currency controls the way it works is this: you spend yuan on electricity and buttminers, generate bitcoins, transfer and sell those bitcoins abroad for USD, presto you've converted yuan into USD without hitting the currency controls
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Oct 14, 2017 16:47
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Bitcoin has no use cases and can't be used to sidestep authoritarian governments
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Oct 14, 2017 16:50
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it is worth noting that the buttminer currency scam will get absolutely crushed by the chinese government if they decide to, given that it's not exactly subtle running warehouses of electricity wasters
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Oct 14, 2017 16:53
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univbee posted:Maybe the better way of looking at "8 transactions per second" is instead what that means per day, which is 691,200 transactions worldwide per day. This effectively means that if every person alive right now has one and only one bitcoin wallet (and companies don't), they will be able to do a little under one transaction every 10 days. What the gently caress I totally dropped a lot of 0's here, been doing way too many filesize calculations lately and hosed up. That earlier "once every 10 days" calculation was for 7 million users, not 7 billion. If every person alive now handled bitcoin, they could do a single transaction every 27.74 years. poo poo even if you limited Bitcoin just to people who explicitly voted for the Libertarian party in the 2016 election that's still 4.5 million people, 1 transaction a week for them. And reminder that 8 transactions per second is actually well above what's possible, for real numbers, double all times.
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Oct 14, 2017 16:58
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univbee posted:What the gently caress I totally dropped a lot of 0's here, been doing way too many filesize calculations lately and hosed up. But get this, they'll just buy bit pennies, a faster working crypto, with their butts to pay for groceries and stuff. It's like withdrawing cash from your visa, only you have to wait a week to do that. It's extremely cool and is in no way a problem for bitgroins.
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Oct 14, 2017 17:28
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A few months back I bought some Etherium on Coinbase. I let it sit there for a while, then happened across the TrustPilot page for Coinbase (which is just hundreds and hundreds of 1 star reviews saying people can't get their money off there https://www.trustpilot.com/review/coinbase.com), and decided I wanted to at least try and get my money off there. It was impossible to do. I spent £10 in bank fees to transfer 6 Euros so they could link my bank account to my Coinbase account. The transfer arrived really quickly, but they never let me withdraw. I emailed support like 5 times but it took 2 weeks per reply, and every time it ended up with 'I'll check this for you and get back to you' and they never did. So eventually I thought gently caress it, turned my ETH into Bitcoin, and sold it on localbitcoins.com. But everything to do with Bitcoin takes so loving long. It takes like an hour to move your money from one wallet to another. How is this in any way viable as a currency?
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Oct 14, 2017 18:28
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It's not a currency.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:31
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Paladinus posted:But get this, they'll just buy bit pennies, a faster working crypto, with their butts to pay for groceries and stuff. It's like withdrawing cash from your visa, only you have to wait a week to do that. It's extremely cool and is in no way a problem for bitgroins. And evil weasel, thank you for the explanation, but it takes me back to my conundrum. Since Chinese miners want cash, and they have to sell abroad because they want USD, not yuan, and it's trivial to turn coins into cash through the exchanges, how aren't they crashing the US price to the production cost of bitcoins in China or thereabout? I'm still left with three explanations: either the price is manipulated out the wazoo, or it's not so easy to cash out, or miners are a small fraction of the market.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:38
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HerStuddMuffin posted:I know you're being facetious, but ham's tried that argument (and you are making fun of that) and it was bullshit even then. If you need another currency to handle day-to-day transaction, then that coin would displace bitcoin and remove it from the marketplace. It would only be good for bitcoin in the sense that it would put it out of its misery. Doing business in cryptocoin, whatever specific one you use, is already a hassle because it's like doing business in a foreign currency inside your own country, which is simply insane to expect of the general public. Have you seen tourists handling foreign currencies, regardless of nationality and country visited? To affirm that people would voluntarily use not one, but two or more kinds of weirdollars in their daily life is moronic beyond words. But who cares if bitcoin becomes worthless aside from all the people who have money in it when it collapses? You can just move on to another cryptocurrency.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:45
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So what is the critical event needed to make Bitcoin crash into the ground? It's poo poo, it's slow, it's bad as a store of value....but the price keeps going up. When or why is it going to crash?
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Oct 14, 2017 18:49
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Bardeh posted:So what is the critical event needed to make Bitcoin crash into the ground? It's poo poo, it's slow, it's bad as a store of value....but the price keeps going up. When or why is it going to crash? Serious answer: When it ceases to be of use to criminals.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:51
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Why does it have to crash? The coins aren't going anywhere, they don't go bad like tulip bulbs, they're already not anywhere anyway since they're virtual, what's stopping them from sitting, unwanted, in a ghost town of an exchange, forever on offer at a high price nobody will ever pay because nobody even remembers they exist? Asking seriously, here.
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Oct 14, 2017 19:14
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