|
Davros1 posted:R&M is more like Sherlock Style over substance?
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
I guess I must have watched Death to the Daleks in my first watchthrough, but I have absolutely no memory of any moment of it. Hopefully, that will also be true when I finish it this time, because, two parts in, it's quite terrible! Absolutely wooden acting, bad Dalek props, bad Dalek voices (they feel rushed like they're trying to get through the lines before they have to think about them too much), criminal underuse of Sarah Jane, and even the blocking seems like people are constantly shifting to get out of the way of the camera. Invasion of the Dinosaurs is also pretty bad. Looking back, I'm convinced the reason I didn't like Sarah Jane as much as other people seem to is that she's in some rough serials toward the beginning of her tenure. She won me over pretty immediately this time.
Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Oct 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2017 05:14
|
|
|
Big Finish has a hefty Sixth Doctor sale going on for the next 6 days. A goodly handful of Main Range titles for $5 each, and The Last Adventure for $25.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 12:10
|
|
|
I'm super done with the Super Genius White Dude Gets to be an rear end in a top hat Because He's a Super Genius show in all of its forms even though I love Rick and Morty and Scrubs and Sherlock and House and all the rest. We learned this lesson with Archie Bunker. People are too stupid to understand that the rear end in a top hat character is an rear end in a top hat and/or that being an rear end in a top hat is bad no matter how you portray their assholery as being damaging to themselves and others. All they see is the assholery being necessary to their genius. They then believe that being an rear end in a top hat makes them a genius. It's a stupid loving trope, and it needs to go away forever and die, because "he's a rapist, but a GENIUS rapist" is how we get Harvey Weinsteins, and artists should be super aware of the way they glorify that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 17:13
|
|
|
LividLiquid posted:I'm super done with the Super Genius White Dude Gets to be an rear end in a top hat Because He's a Super Genius show in all of its forms even though I love Rick and Morty and Scrubs and Sherlock and House and all the rest. Archie Bunker, super genius white dude. What exactly is this post in response to?
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
McGann posted:Archie Bunker, super genius white dude. And it's in reference to Rick and Morty and Sherlock, which people are currently talking about in this thread. And while I'm answering your stupid question, I largely suspect your willful ignorance as to what I was responding and your conflating my dislike of genius rear end in a top hat characters to my proof that people don't understand this particular nuance in art is because I mentioned white dudes, so if you care to argue further, go shout at your loving toilet for all I care, 'cause I'm super over explaining that people are lovely to lovely people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
My problem with TV Geniuses is that they're basically (as someone put it maybe on this forum somewhere) a stupid person's version of what a smart person does. They see a problem and they genius at it until by magic the answer appears. Moffat's Sherlock might as well be a carnival fortune teller machine which spits out a card reading the foreigner did it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 17:58
|
|
|
LividLiquid posted:Archie Bunker wasn't a super genius white dude. He was proof that people can't understand that an rear end in a top hat written to be an rear end in a top hat will be taken the wrong way by like, most people. This sure seems like the kind of post an genius rear end in a top hat would write.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 18:23
|
|
|
LividLiquid posted:
When I did my rewatch, this was my issue with the first season of Twelve. He's an rear end in a top hat to Clara and and an rear end in a top hat to Danny and an rear end in a top hat to a little girl, and while the writing invites us to take Clara's side, not everyone did, and I'm not sure Doctor Who is the kind of show for that, anyway. Like, yes, it started that way, with how much of a tyrant One is at the beginning, but I just want my space wizard to be at least mostly kind to the people who he's shepherding through adventures, unless they're that imbecile, Harry Sullivan! Also, even in those cases where we understand that the person isn't someone to emulate, because of how much their actions hurt themselves within the show, it's weird to focus on characters whose self-destructive behavior hurts all the people around them forever. Bojack Horseman, the character, has justifiably been told by multiple people in his show that his behavior has made friendship with him impossible, enough that they have basically cut him out of their lives, but like... he's still the protagonist. It's his repeated failures at redemption that the show follows, through flashbacks and into the present day, indicating over and over again that he is going to get stuck in the same pattern. There's got to be a point where watching that is just misery porn.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 18:28
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:My problem with TV Geniuses is that they're basically (as someone put it maybe on this forum somewhere) a stupid person's version of what a smart person does. They see a problem and they genius at it until by magic the answer appears. Moffat's Sherlock might as well be a carnival fortune teller machine which spits out a card reading the foreigner did it. Thats literally every incarnation of Sherlock Holmes, from the original text onwards. Except sometimes the card is more specific and says "Pygmies, Watson!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 18:32
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:My problem with TV Geniuses is that they're basically (as someone put it maybe on this forum somewhere) a stupid person's version of what a smart person does. They see a problem and they genius at it until by magic the answer appears. Moffat's Sherlock might as well be a carnival fortune teller machine which spits out a card reading the foreigner did it. It was a boomerang
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 18:38
|
|
|
BBC SHERLOCK is so loving lovely that they even changed the story where Sherlock loses to Irene Adler and had him win instead, because Sherlock is so smart and cool he can never ever lose gently caress you Moffat
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 18:39
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:BBC SHERLOCK is so loving lovely that they even changed the story where Sherlock loses to Irene Adler and had him win instead, because Sherlock is so smart and cool he can never ever lose gently caress you Moffat Anyone who was annoyed and upset by this, I implore you to seek out the Scandal In Bohemia episode of The Adventures Of Sherlock Holmes (the one with Jeremy Brett). Also anyone who wasn't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
docbeard posted:Anyone who was annoyed and upset by this, I implore you to seek out the Scandal In Bohemia episode of The Adventures Of Sherlock Holmes (the one with Jeremy Brett). Or if you like some beastlity wishbone has an episode about it
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 22:38
|
|
|
docbeard posted:Anyone who was annoyed and upset by this, I implore you to seek out the Scandal In Bohemia episode of The Adventures Of Sherlock Holmes (the one with Jeremy Brett). The way they pronounce "Irene" in that episode always confused me. Everyone should watch Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, obviously. One of the two best detective adaptations (the other is A Nero Wolfe Mystery).
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2017 23:59
|
|
|
The best sherlock holmes adaptation is Law & Order Criminal Intent, of course
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 00:02
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Everyone should watch Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, obviously. One of the two best detective adaptations (the other is A Nero Wolfe Mystery). The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes is so great, Jeremy Brett's Holmes is absolutely goddamn amazing. The way he barely contains his delight/amusement at the most inopportune times when an interesting bit of information or a bizarre case is presented to him is just perfect. It's also really nice to see the dynamic between Holmes and Watson be so warm and pleasant. Even while keeping Holmes' idiosyncrasies in place it goes out of its way to remind you that these guys are the best of friends. And now, apropos of nothing one of my favorite Holmes related things ever: 
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 00:12
|
|
|
Well, my favourite version of Watson is Lucy Liu, but Edward Hardwicke would be a close second.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:BBC SHERLOCK is so loving lovely that they even changed the story where Sherlock loses to Irene Adler and had him win instead, because Sherlock is so smart and cool he can never ever lose gently caress you Moffat Watching it in retrospect, it's both amazing in just how quickly it went to poo poo, and how many of the episodes are dogshit. I don't think I've ever seen a show get so up its own arse and self-indulgent in such a short time. The slickness of the style covers over the lack of substance, and it's only when thinking about it afterwards you go "Hang on a sec, that was trash." Hbomberguy did quite a good video on it (and also links it tangentially to Doctor Who), although he does get some things wrong in their relation to the original books (I can't recall what off the top of my head). Wheat Loaf posted:The way they pronounce "Irene" in that episode always confused me. It confused me at first, but apparently they're going for a German pronunciation - Irene having been in Prague for a while. Something like that I read somewhere. Yeah, Jeremy Brett is amazing as Sherlock, and it's honestly refreshing after revisting BBC Sherlock, and thinking "Oh, wait, yeah, this is how you tell a story with likable characters who aren't just caricatures". Also, David Suchet's Poirot as another great detective adaptation (with a load of future Doctor Who actors making appearances - Capaldi and Eccleston in some of the earlier ones). Jerusalem posted:The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes is so great, Jeremy Brett's Holmes is absolutely goddamn amazing. The way he barely contains his delight/amusement at the most inopportune times when an interesting bit of information or a bizarre case is presented to him is just perfect. I love his short barking laugh, and the sheer glee and energy he has. Physically throwing himself to the ground to look closer at something, perching on the edge of a bridge. He's just this excitable ball of energy that's ready to pop, when he has something to engage his mind. And yeah, a warm dynamic between Holmes and Watson. And Mycroft as well, for that matter.  Nthing the whole watch The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. [e]: Wheat Loaf posted:Well, my favourite version of Watson is Lucy Liu, but Edward Hardwicke would be a close second. Sorry man, it's gotta be Jam Watson all day, everyday.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
I think I made it partway through s2 of Sherlock before I gave up on watching it new. I've only seen the rest because it was on netflix and I was curious, and I was 100% right to stop when I did cause whooooooooa nelly Irene Adler is the most obvious lovely adaptation but their version of Hound of the Baskervilles was, imho, even stupider and was what made me realize I hated the show
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:09
|
|
|
Clive Merrison is my favorite Holmes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
I still think their adaptation of The Dying Detective in season 4 was really loving good, though that may mostly be down to Toby Jones being so fantastic as the villain. That last episode of season 4 though.... woof.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:15
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I still think their adaptation of The Dying Detective in season 4 was really loving good, though that may mostly be down to Toby Jones being so fantastic as the villain. Even that's undercut by the pointless revelation that Watson's therapist was secretly a fake daughter and also a lady he texted sometimes and then she shoots him in a lazy fakeout whoooooooaaaaaa whats gonna happen????
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:I think I made it partway through s2 of Sherlock before I gave up on watching it new. I've only seen the rest because it was on netflix and I was curious, and I was 100% right to stop when I did cause whooooooooa nelly I like elements of the first two series. The third series, aside from maybe a few gags, I could not give less of a gently caress about Sherlock and Watson's relationship, or Mary being a super assassin. Or the special which is essentially 90 minutes of telling the audience a man who shot himself in the head and died...didn't fake it and shot himself in the head and died.. I don't think anybody likes series four. The Toby Jones as Jimmy Saville episode is not bad - though that's largely thanks to Toby Jones being a great actor. That final episode with Moffat and Gatiss' fanfiction character though, that's loving wretched. [e]: Davros1 posted:Clive Merrison is my favorite Holmes. That's an odd way to spell Michael Caine.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:Even that's undercut by the pointless revelation that Watson's therapist was secretly a fake daughter and also a lady he texted sometimes and then she shoots him in a lazy fakeout whoooooooaaaaaa whats gonna happen???? Yeah I try to ignore that/roll it into the awful final episode because it was so bad 
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 01:23
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:
I said Merrison was my favorite Holmes, not my favorite Reginald Kincaid
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 02:00
|
|
|
Alright, while we're complaining about fiction tropes, here's one that I could do without entirely that happens in a Doctor Who serial that I very much like, The Ark in Space: A major supporting character, who is a woman, faces a difficulty which terribly difficult, at the edge of their abilities at their best, but upon which the success of our heroes depends. She struggles. She begins to doubt her ability to accomplish her task, and verbally expresses her doubt, to the other characters who she (and the audience) have grown to trust. A man, usually the protagonist, responds by saying, oh, of course, naturally she would fail, because she is just a weak female, a woman, someone whose feminine intuition couldn't save her, she's utterly useless! This insult spurs her on and suddenly, she is able to overcome her obstacle!! The man reveals that this was his intention all along, and his knowledge of her psychology made her say those sexist things to make her successful. This trope sucks. And it's still pretty common. First of all, it feels like an excuse to have a dude say a bunch of shockingly sexist things and give him an excuse for saying them. Secondly, anyone who has ever studied stereotype threat knows that it wouldn't work, realistically. Priming someone to think about stereotypes involving them in stressful situations makes them perform poorly. I am not sure what it accomplishes, story-wise, that could not be better accomplished by a bunch of other things in almost literally every circumstance. It is bad and they should stop doing it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 02:54
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:The way they pronounce "Irene" in that episode always confused me. My first exposure to "Scandal in Bohemia" was the Basil Rathbone radio play, which pronounces it the same way. It would have felt weird to me if they hadn't. Also, Brett4Life, but if you haven't had a chance to try out Rathbone Holmes, the radio plays are a good way to do it. There was a lot less room for padding than the movies and Nigel Bruce's Watson isn't quite so irritating if you can't see him gurning. EDIT - This is the version I had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxfGjO35pD8. The commercials are pretty fantastic, as well. "Hamburger sandwich" 
After The War fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Oct 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 03:40
|
|
|
I've never heard the radio stuff but I've seen a bunch of the Basil Rathbone movies when I was a kid and I really enjoyed them, though even now through the haze of memory and childhood nostalgia I'm remembering some pretty hosed up stuff like that loving pygmy assassin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 05:40
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Big Finish has a hefty Sixth Doctor sale going on for the next 6 days. A goodly handful of Main Range titles for $5 each, and The Last Adventure for $25. I thought this would be a good chance to fill gaps in my collection. There was ONE audio in there I didn't already own... 
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 06:55
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I thought this would be a good chance to fill gaps in my collection. There was ONE audio in there I didn't already own... There were four I need (the Flip stories and one Peri one) but PayPal and BigFin's site didn't seem to be getting on lsat night so I have forty bucks (i was dumb and tried the transaction a second time after getting the error) floating in the ether that neither site seems to have that I need to get sorted before I can add some more C. Bakes to the pile
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 07:02
|
|
|
After The War posted:Also, Brett4Life, but if you haven't had a chance to try out Rathbone Holmes, the radio plays are a good way to do it. There was a lot less room for padding than the movies and Nigel Bruce's Watson isn't quite so irritating if you can't see him gurning. While I have many disagreements with my dad, one of the only times we've ever had something close to an argument was over who played the best Sherlock Holmes. I said it was Brett, he said it was Rathbone. (Again, I recommend A Nero Wolfe Mystery with Maury Chaykin as Wolfe and Timothy Hutton as Archie to anyone who hasn't seen it; it didn't last as long as it should have but it's one of those shows that makes you think, "They have ruined any future adaptations with this because it's basically perfect.") Pesky Splinter posted:That's an odd way to spell Michael Caine. There's a miniseries from about 30 years ago about Jack the Ripper where Caine plays Frederick Abberline. I saw it years ago on the History Channel (before it became the Ice Road Truckers Channel; before it even became the Hitler and the Secret Codes of the Bible Channel, actually) and remember it being pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 10:09
|
|
|
I liked the first series of BendyDick Sherlock when it was just him and Bilbo solving mysteries but after it disappeared up its own arse in the middle of the second season I just kinda didn't care. The Abominable Bride special was kind of cool when it was just an alt-universe old timey tale but then it disappeared back up Sherlock's nose to tie into the "main plot" and I lost interest ("actually, the suffragettes are the bad guys" is a pretty tasteless resolution either way). The only other contribution I can make to Holmes-chat is that the Audible readings by Simon Vance do a really good job of capturing both Sherlock and Watson while also carrying across the journal format of the original writings. They're my only experience with the original stories but I feel they're pretty darn good quality for a single Audible credit (like  )
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 10:23
|
|
|
Box of Bunnies posted:I liked the first series of BendyDick Sherlock when it was just him and Bilbo solving mysteries but after it disappeared up its own arse in the middle of the second season I just kinda didn't care. The Abominable Bride special was kind of cool when it was just an alt-universe old timey tale but then it disappeared back up Sherlock's nose to tie into the "main plot" and I lost interest ("actually, the suffragettes are the bad guys" is a pretty tasteless resolution either way). I had to read this twice to get what you were talking about, but it's actually a plausible name for some kind of British thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 13:40
|
|
|
The BBC Radio Clive Merrison & Michael Williams are wonderful adaptations, and the follow up original stories with Merrison and Andrew Sachs (Williams had sadly passed away) and great too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 13:56
|
|
|
Just listened to a couple of episodes of Travis & Tybee's fancast and it's pretty fun! Seems like they're alternating a rewatch from the start of New Who with audience suggestions for Old Who episodes that they should watch. I got halfway through the episode about the movie in which Travis talks about how Eight has over 70 "audiobooks" and stopped listening to email them explaining what Big Finish audios actually are and recommending Chimes of Midnight as an episode to review. Anyway, it's refreshing to hear opinions from people who are enthusiastic about the show but aren't super deep down the rabbit hole (yet).
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Is Nick Briggs a good Holmes? I think I bought one of BF's releases years ago but i never got around to actually listening to it
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
Tim Burns Effect posted:Is Nick Briggs a good Holmes? I think I bought one of BF's releases years ago but i never got around to actually listening to it He's pretty good (remember, he played Holmes numerous times on stage before he played him for BF), but I think Richard Earl's Watson is my favorite Watson
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:BBC SHERLOCK is so loving lovely that they even changed the story where Sherlock loses to Irene Adler and had him win instead, because Sherlock is so smart and cool he can never ever lose gently caress you Moffat Wait what *WHY*
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
The author Jeffery Deaver wrote in his foreword to a short story collection that you can get away with more in a short story than in a novel because there is less audience investment- an audience expects a 400 page novel to have a happy ending, whereas with a 10 page short story there isn't really enough time for them to build up any expectation. I can't help but wonder if a sentiment similar to that might be partly behind a 90 minute adaptation of a story you could read over your lunch break changing the plot so the main character wins.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2017 23:21
|
|
