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Angry Joe likes the Orville. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ3twI8ENbY
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Oct 16, 2017 04:11
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8one6 posted:Angry Joe likes the Orville. Angry Joe stills exists? Wait, do all those reviewers still exist? Holy poo poo, the nostalgia critic is still around? How?
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Oct 16, 2017 04:23
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Shbobdb posted:Given how consciousness works 
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Oct 16, 2017 04:32
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On the one side, we have empirical data which is the best we can produce but may be wrong. On the other hand, we have feelings. Which, my kindergarten teacher taught me can never be wrong.
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Oct 16, 2017 04:37
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Eiba posted:Yeah, it's not specifically about atheism, but "irreligiosity" is a really awkward word so I've been saying atheism instead. Yes exactly, that why its a joke. In case you all haven't noticed, The Orville is making fun of old Star Trek tropes. Except Star Trek would not be so ham fisted as to say "all religion is superstition". Most of the cast acted that way, but its not like they were dunking on Major Kira for being a big stupid religious duffus. The line from The Orville was delivered deadpan, but i am 89% sure they were making fun of smug internet atheism.
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Oct 16, 2017 04:48
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Rutibex posted:Yes exactly, that why its a joke. In case you all haven't noticed, The Orville is making fun of old Star Trek tropes. Except Star Trek would not be so ham fisted as to say "all religion is superstition". Most of the cast acted that way, but its not like they were dunking on Major Kira for being a big stupid religious duffus. Uh, Seth MacFarlane is kind of a poster boy, in some respects, for smug internet atheist so I really, really doubt it was a joke.
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Oct 16, 2017 04:49
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Zoro posted:Uh, Seth MacFarlane is kind of a poster boy, in some respects, for smug internet atheist so I really, really doubt it was a joke. So far with The Orville, he has demonstrated to me more nuance than I expect from the loathsome atheist stereotype.
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Oct 16, 2017 04:53
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bagrada posted:That is weird given how big a deal they made about all (aired) episodes being available online anytime in their next episode preview. Malloy rambling, and Mercer's awkwardness, made the episode for me. I finally got to watch it tonight and that was right in my wheelhouse for comedy. The incongruity of these two poor dopes who are competent enough at their jobs, but totally out of their element for infiltration, was played perfectly - for a show like this. It wasn't meant to be like Picard and Data showing up on Romulus, or Sisko, Odo, and O'Brien going with Worf to Q'onoS, although those were funny too. Part of the gag is that the Krill don't suspect anything immediately.
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Oct 16, 2017 04:58
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Actually I would love to see what people thought about Sisko. There's gotta be old Usenet hot takes somewhere No one gave a gently caress about Sisko being black. Racism was over in the 90s, it didn't come back until around 2001.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:01
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Zoro posted:Uh, Seth MacFarlane is kind of a poster boy, in some respects, for smug internet atheist so I really, really doubt it was a joke. It was 100% straight and 100% in the spirit of "Trek, but with real people." In OT religion was always a sham, although beings beyond comprehension may be perpetuating the shame. In NG, you've pretty much got the same. The most divine thing in Q and he's precisely the sort of petty, capricious god that people love to hate and hate to love. In DS9, you've got sincere religious belief propped up by hilariously corrupt and evil people. Trek has answered the "religion" question and it's answer is, "It is bad."
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Oct 16, 2017 05:02
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Rutibex posted:No one gave a gently caress about Sisko being black. Racism was over in the 90s, it didn't come back until around 2001. God drat I hope you're joking.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:03
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Cingulate posted:Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Do I actually have to explain this? You can't tell how absurd that statement is?
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Oct 16, 2017 05:03
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Rutibex posted:No one gave a gently caress about Sisko being black. Racism was over in the 90s, it didn't come back until around 2001. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Theory of hottakes.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:07
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I remember Janeway having waaay more hot-takes at the time. Sisco was the "well spoken" Colin Powell of space.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:20
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Malloy rambling, and Mercer's awkwardness, made the episode for me. I finally got to watch it tonight and that was right in my wheelhouse for comedy. The incongruity of these two poor dopes who are competent enough at their jobs, but totally out of their element for infiltration, was played perfectly - for a show like this. It wasn't meant to be like Picard and Data showing up on Romulus, or Sisko, Odo, and O'Brien going with Worf to Q'onoS, although those were funny too. Part of the gag is that the Krill don't suspect anything immediately. Definitely. Like all those times they'd just make poo poo up about the Krill religion, you expect them to get called out, but they don't. When they'd say stuff like "We were praying to get rescued" you think the next line would be "WE DON'T PRAY, ONLY HEATHENS DO THAT!" or "I always read the Book for guidence" I was waiting for the priest to say "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, ONLY HIGH PRIESTS CAN READ THE HOLY SCRIPTURES!" Instead every time it was "Ok, seems legit!"
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Oct 16, 2017 05:37
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Malloy rambling, and Mercer's awkwardness, made the episode for me. I finally got to watch it tonight and that was right in my wheelhouse for comedy. The incongruity of these two poor dopes who are competent enough at their jobs, but totally out of their element for infiltration, was played perfectly - for a show like this. It wasn't meant to be like Picard and Data showing up on Romulus, or Sisko, Odo, and O'Brien going with Worf to Q'onoS, although those were funny too. Part of the gag is that the Krill don't suspect anything immediately. Yeah I feel that was a big part of the joke was just how overly trusting the krill were to these people that couldn't bluff their way out of a paper bag, to the point the Captain was shocked the priest wouldn't trust good ol' "chris and devon".
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Oct 16, 2017 05:38
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Rutibex posted:Except Star Trek would not be so ham fisted as to say "all religion is superstition". Picard, on being told he shouldn’t do anything to fix the religion he accidentally started on a planet: “Horrifying... Dr. Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!” But regardless of what Star Trek has to say about religion, the line in the Orville was not a joke.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:42
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I was really expecting that only priests could read the Ankhana. The admiral made a big point that each Krill ship would have one or two onboard. One or two makes it sound like it's a rare object and most people won't have one, so it would be weird for Chris and Devon to be reading it, as it should be just for priests.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:43
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Tom Guycot posted:Yeah I feel that was a big part of the joke was just how overly trusting the krill were to these people that couldn't bluff their way out of a paper bag, to the point the Captain was shocked the priest wouldn't trust good ol' "chris and devon". During the whole episode, I kept thinking "The Krill aren't a monoculture." Like, sure, Devon was strange a gently caress. But maybe that's how they do it on their world. May as well roll with it and trust them. They seem legit.
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Oct 16, 2017 05:48
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Choadmaster posted:Picard, on being told he shouldn’t do anything to fix the religion he accidentally started on a planet: “Horrifying... Dr. Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No!” Star Trek is complex on this issue. Some of the characters might have that attitude, but some of the characters have the opposite. Worf and B'elanna are both religious, as is Ensign Ro and Kira. The show itself is fairly ambiguous in its "real" philosophy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0lNwmstY84
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Oct 16, 2017 05:56
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Rutibex posted:Star Trek is complex on this issue. Some of the characters might have that attitude, but some of the characters have the opposite. Worf and B'elanna are both religious, as is Ensign Ro and Kira. The show itself is fairly ambiguous in its "real" philosophy: The Bajoran religion has the benefit of being verifiably true.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:08
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I was thinking some more about the comedy of Ed and Gordon infiltrating, and I really think it's in the vein of e.g. Abbott and Costello. I can almost see in my mind that pair in a version of some of those scenes with just minor modifications. They'd probably be in blackface trying to fit in in an African village or something, but let's not go there.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:10
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Rutibex posted:Star Trek is complex on this issue. Some of the characters might have that attitude, but some of the characters have the opposite. Worf and B'elanna are both religious, as is Ensign Ro and Kira. The show itself is fairly ambiguous in its "real" philosophy: Klingons have a sort of religion, but part of that religion is the idea that the Klingons overthrew and murdered their own gods. Then they have some metal as gently caress mix of Greek and Viking death beliefs involving basically fighting your way across the River Styx on a boat and having murder-death hell or something like that. Meanwhile the Bajorans worship "gods" that turned out to be weird-rear end energy beings in a wormhole that exist beyond the scope and perception of time itself. Roddenberry seemed gung ho on the idea that at least humanity would completely abandon religion when they got to space but even if humanity did that's not stopped other cultures from maintaining their religious beliefs.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:11
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Zebulon posted:Klingons have a sort of religion, but part of that religion is the idea that the Klingons overthrew and murdered their own gods. Then they have some metal as gently caress mix of Greek and Viking death beliefs involving basically fighting your way across the River Styx on a boat and having murder-death hell or something like that. Meanwhile the Bajorans worship "gods" that turned out to be weird-rear end energy beings in a wormhole that exist beyond the scope and perception of time itself. Roddenberry seemed gung ho on the idea that at least humanity would completely abandon religion when they got to space but even if humanity did that's not stopped other cultures from maintaining their religious beliefs. But I mean, not all religions are Christianity. Not all religions make verifiable claims that can be disproved by science. Buddhism or Hinduism for example are perfectly compatible with space travel. Scientologists have aliens as part of their religion!
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Oct 16, 2017 06:18
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Cojawfee posted:I was really expecting that only priests could read the Ankhana. The admiral made a big point that each Krill ship would have one or two onboard. One or two makes it sound like it's a rare object and most people won't have one, so it would be weird for Chris and Devon to be reading it, as it should be just for priests. It looked like it might be hand-written. If that were a religious requirement and you aren't allowed to print or make electronic copies, and it's illustrated the way we saw, it might be pretty rare to actually have one even if everyone's allowed to.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:18
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If I lived in a universe that had a fair amount of god like aliens zipping around I’d probably take the time out to whisper a prayer or two on the off chance that one was listening. What’s the worst that could happen, I’d end up going on cool anthropological missions with Q afterwards? Count me in!
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Oct 16, 2017 06:20
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Grand Fromage posted:It looked like it might be hand-written. If that were a religious requirement and you aren't allowed to print or make electronic copies, and it's illustrated the way we saw, it might be pretty rare to actually have one even if everyone's allowed to. They looked though the literature database from their room, I can assume they are not stupid enough to fail to check if there is a e-book on file they could just copy to a thumb drive. It must be a religious requirement not to make electronic copies.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:21
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Rutibex posted:But I mean, not all religions are Christianity. Not all religions make verifiable claims that can be disproved by science. Buddhism or Hinduism for example are perfectly compatible with space travel. Scientologists have aliens as part of their religion! More accurately, this is not about the religions themselves but how the practitioners interpret their religion. Right now you can find Buddhists killing non-Buddhists for no good reason. You can also read Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, an early 20th century Christian theologian who wrote extensively about a theology that conceives of a cosmic Christ, not just the Jewish one named Jesus of Nazareth. I bet I could read the entire Avis rental agreement and make a plausible interpretation that the term krill used in the phrase "all krill are brothers," refers also to sapient peoples not born on the krill homeworld. Caufman fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 06:33
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They could probably look into ancient Krill texts and see if there was ever a time when Krill just meant an intelligent, self-aware creature. There would only have been one on their planet, so that means it is them. But apply that definition to the whole galaxy, and it could also apply to humans. Kind of like how human or humanoid could really apply to any bipedal intelligent creature. Especially in the Star Trek universe where technically all humanoid races are related to each other. I've always preferred using human to refer to humanoid aliens, and Terran to refer to humanoids from Earth. It makes words and phrases like "humane" or "human rights" apply to all intelligent people, instead of just homo sapiens.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:44
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eth0.n posted:There are actual physics reasons why a transporter could be able to move a living thing, while a replicator would struggle to create a copy of a living thing. Quantum teleportation allows moving information from place to place that isn't observable (due to Heisenberg uncertainty) in the first place. The downside is it absolutely must destroy the original. So a replicator has to work with information that's subject to Heisenberg uncertainty, or work by transporting bits of conventionally manufactured material. Both could reasonably struggle to create life. This is a couple of pages ago but I think TOS Mirror, Mirror offers a great possible solution to this question: Thomas Riker is from a slightly parallel universe, in which a young Lieutenant Riker was tragically and mysteriously lost during transport.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:49
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:This is a couple of pages ago but I think TOS Mirror, Mirror offers a great possible solution to this question: Thomas Riker is from a slightly parallel universe, in which a young Lieutenant Riker was tragically and mysteriously lost during transport.  You just blew my mind. No wonder he has a dastardly goatee instead of a distinguished beard!
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Oct 16, 2017 07:20
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Do I actually have to explain this? You can't tell how absurd that statement is?
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Oct 16, 2017 08:02
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Reflecting on the Orville = notSJW, one thing I remember from the pilot was that I found it not completely right that Ed outranked Kelly. The Admiralty was impressed with Kelly, not Ed, and she came up with the plan to use the tree to destroy the krill ship. But she's a full rank below him and serves under his command. I'm impressed with her character's love for her ex-cuckold, but in an SJW-approved Union, Kelly would have had her own command before Ed. Rewatching the pilot, I can also predict that Ed and Kelly's marriage will be repaired by the teachings of Avis. The krill who was counseling them was so close to a breakthrough, but then he remembered his denialism and abruptly tries to kill the Orville. Caufman fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 11:09
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Oct 16, 2017 11:22
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It's not that surprising. Seth McFarlane is 10 years older than Adrianne Palicki. If the characters have similar age gap, then he has been on the fleet 10 years longer. Commander Grayson is highly qualified and probably on fast track for her own command. She still needs few more years of XO experience, before she can be promoted.
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Oct 16, 2017 11:43
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To be fair, kill all the non-believers is a potential tenant of like 90% of religions given their holy books, it's just that 99% of religious people tend to ignore that.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:10
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Caufman posted:Reflecting on the Orville = notSJW, one thing I remember from the pilot was that I found it not completely right that Ed outranked Kelly. The Admiralty was impressed with Kelly, not Ed, and she came up with the plan to use the tree to destroy the krill ship. But she's a full rank below him and serves under his command. I'm impressed with her character's love for her ex-cuckold, but in an SJW-approved Union, Kelly would have had her own command before Ed. What in the gently caress is this post? Son, you done broke your brain with too much internet. Stop parsing everything as "SJW" or "notSJW" what in the gently caress is wrong with you? loving amazing episode. I'm really loving this show.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:16
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WampaLord posted:What in the gently caress is this post? Son, you done broke your brain with too much internet. Stop parsing everything as "SJW" or "notSJW" what in the gently caress is wrong with you? Hahahah that looks like the chicken scratching of a youtube commenter.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:30
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WampaLord posted:What in the gently caress is this post? Son, you done broke your brain with too much internet. Stop parsing everything as "SJW" or "notSJW" what in the gently caress is wrong with you? Hold up, I want to help you parse my post. I'm not in favor of the politicization of a campy sci fi tv show, but the discussion of that happening reminded me of something that seemed weird to me from the pilot: that Kelly is more competent than Ed, but she is lower ranked than him. This post: adhuin posted:It's not that surprising. Seth McFarlane is 10 years older than Adrianne Palicki. If the characters have similar age gap, then he has been on the fleet 10 years longer. is a very plausible explanation for why Ed is getting a command before Kelly. I had assumed they were of a much closer age and service record.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:38
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Caufman posted:Hold up, I want to help you parse my post. I'm not in favor of the politicization of a campy sci fi tv show, but the discussion of that happening reminded me of something that seemed weird to me from the pilot: that Kelly is more competent than Ed, but she is lower ranked than him. This post: You totes made it read like a r/T_D word salad
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Oct 16, 2017 12:45
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